Outright lies and pure bullshit

[Momz]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/biker-injuries-and-deaths-soar-after-michigan-repeals-helmet-law_568feb56e4b0c8beacf6be7a

In the past two years Michigan has had the lowest motorcycle fatality rate since 1969. These fatality statistics are compiled by the Michigan State Police.

Approximetly 80% of the fatalities were unlicensed riders. Michigan law requires that to ride without a helmet, one must be licensed for a period of no less than two years, be more than twenty one years of age, and have at least 20,000.00 in personal injury insurance.

So if 80% are unlicensed,....how many are over 21 and carrying 20K of additional injury insuranace, as well as using a helmet?

A thinking person would have to surmise that the Huffinton article was a ruse to influence the non-motorcylce riding road users into supporting any "Safety Inititives" by the insurance industries.

[Black Pearl's Captain]

I don't care about the stats. i'm all for your own choice but, two  questions for you, I hope you answer.

1. Do you wear a helmet?

2. If you go down at 75 mph and slid your head on the pavement do think a helmet would help?

[Michvalk]

I don't care about the stats. i'm all for your own choice but, two  questions for you, I hope you answer.

1. Do you wear a helmet?

2. If you go down at 75 mph and slid your head on the pavement do think a helmet would help?

Willow would be the best to answer that one!

[Bighead]

Sounds like the same logic used by O on Gun Control

[Robert]

Thank you for posting this because I actually heard that the accident rate was down also but didn't feel like looking at the stats. I would really like to see the real numbers licensed and unlicensed to establish a real idea of the truth. Not to mention if they are unlicensed are they newbies to motorcycle riding. I have also heard that the way they figure in the accidents is not really the truth either.

I want to also say the fear mongering on this board about helmets is getting to a level of car tire and oil fame.

I don't doubt that helmets save  lives and look at the stories here of encounters and shake my head in amazement at the fact that they survived with or without a helmet.

But I have also seen people walk down the street and get killed, or succumb to many diseases, or as the tv show 1000 ways to die points out no one is unique in getting out of this world and NO ONE gets out alive.

 So how many here exercise, or how many use non GMO corn and grain or how many stay away from smoking, drinking, chemicals that cause cancer? How many have the air in their home purified or don't have relations out side of their marriage or wait to have one partner remove stress from their lives. All of which and more will cause your life to be shorter.

 Because you ride with a helmet you guys come down hard on them that don't and block out any other opinion. Hypocrites actually, one way to die is not necessarily better than another and hopefully if you ride you have already made your peace with the consequences because the public at large is against riding.

  So anyone one who condemns to harshly riding without a helmet is already at the bottom of the survivability barrel commenting on the statistical next class down. Which really never reflects the truth in life or death or getting hurt.

I also cannot tell you how many I have seen that are not who they used to be because of drugs and alcohol. Both kill who you are but not necessarily the body all the time. I like my life, but I also like enjoying it to the fullest. I don't know why but there is a joy of feeling the wind in your face. I always wondered how much in common me and my dog have when he struggles to put his head out the window in the car. Or in the movie Titanic when they are up on the bow of the boat and it feels so good.


I don't wear a helmet at times, but at times I do, I decide which I do, not fear.

Let me point out one more thing about statistics, do you own a gun? Have you looked at the statistics on this? Just another life choice actually and to each his or her own, so before you sit in a place of knowing what the facts are remember we all make choices that someone will say is unsafe.

[da prez]

BP Ç , have someone hit you in the head with a base ball bat for an idea of the impact. I have crashed , but not quite 75 mph. At 60 mph , you are traveling 88 feet pretty second. How long  will skin last on pavement  in 88 feet. If the helmet takes the initial   impact , it is better   than a naked head. I ride most times with a helmet. I also   just ordered a new helmet  as my old   one was way past due for   replacement.


                      da.prez

[Serk]

I don't care if the motorcyclist death rate went up 100 times and it was instant painful death the second you even SAW an inattentive driver while riding without a helmet, the legal decision as to wear a helmet or not, just like the decision to ride a motorcycle at all (We're just talking increments of risk here folks, even with all the gear all the time riding a bike is STILL far more dangerous than driving a cage) should be left up to the individuals partaking in the activity, no one else.

As a wise man used to quote another wise man on here quite frequently.... and that's all I've got to say about that.

[John Schmidt]

Personally, I won't ride without a helmet, having simply seen too much of the damage caused by not having one on. Obviously, not every situation or life can be saved with a helmet but you're certainly improving the odds. A few years ago, I was an active member in a local GWRRA chapter. One weekend we were having a ride-in to a hotel that had a tricky driveway, it was uphill with an embankment covered by a vertical stone wall on either side. One rider with his wife on the back apparently misjudged the grade of the sloped driveway and halfway up he stalled his Wing. The bike went over with both on it, his wife hit the side of her helmet on the edge of one of the stones, breaking the helmet like a cracked egg. She hurt her neck and got a good bruise on her temple area, the helmet literally split....but did its job. Had she not been wearing a helmet(a name brand full face), she would have died on the spot. Unusual situation? Most definitely....but not the point.

My comments to all that don't like to wear a helmet.....it's not nearly as restrictive as a wheelchair. That's assuming you live to tell about it. One son-in-law jokes with me, saying I'm old fashioned. I respond by telling him "yes, and the key word there is OLD."   

[Roadog]

   Hufffington post,..What a rag they are , liars !  Would'nt print the truth even if they knew it. Dont ever believe anything that is in that rag.

[Hooter]

Not this again....  I would much rather fall off the scooter at 75 than hit something. Hit something at that speed and blunt trauma to the body is probably (?) gonna kill ya anyway? Not all the time but the majority of the time. That is what I have seen covering motorcycle accidents. I've seen people get lucky and not hit something at speed and make it as well but they are usually beat to hell.
   There are so many arguments on this subject one way or the other it reminds me of an oil thread. Do what you want, to each his own but, if you don't wear one just accept the realization of what can happen to your gord if you get hit or fall off no matter how fast you are going. At speed a helmet  "may" dictate weather the funeral is an open casket or not. Just sayin.

[Bighead]

Not this again....  I would much rather fall off the scooter at 75 than hit something. Hit something at that speed and blunt trauma to the body is probably (?) gonna kill ya anyway? Not all the time but the majority of the time. That is what I have seen covering motorcycle accidents. I've seen people get lucky and not hit something at speed and make it as well but they are usually beat to hell.
   There are so many arguments on this subject one way or the other it reminds me of an oil thread. Do what you want, to each his own but, if you don't wear one just accept the realization of what can happen to your gord if you get hit or fall off no matter how fast you are going. At speed a helmet  "may" dictate weather the funeral is an open casket or not. Just sayin.

[GiG]

1. Helmets are illegal in cars because:
       A) They reduce vision
       B) they reduce hearing
       C) they have not proven effective
These 3 conditions magically reverse themselves on Motorcycles
It's true, ask any LEO

2) ANY helmet causes me a LOT of pain

I'm gonna get a Doctors rx preventing me from wearing helmets because they are harmful to my health

[..]

Many years ago when I used to huff and puff around the forests of Rutland England on the "Starship Exercise" (mountain bike) I used to go for a coupla pints after close heart attacks to a local pub where friends also gathered. One told me he was going to start huffing and puffing oh his bicycle.

I implored him to wear a helmet no matter how presidential it made him look (OK OK I made that bit up about presidential - o was an unkown back in the early 90's).

A few weeks later I returned to the same pub and the same friend came up to me and thanked me for nagging him about a helmet. He had fallen off his bicycle on his stone/gravel driveway and hit his helmeted head on the gravel. One of the stones embedded itself in his helmet about 3/4 of an inch. He told me that he would have never forgiven himself if badly injured or killed because of his being the father of 2 young girls.

Yer makes yer choices and plans and then life smacks yer around the back of the head.

[GiG]

Many years ago when I used to huff and puff around the forests of Rutland England on the "Starship Exercise" (mountain bike) I used to go for a coupla pints after close heart attacks to a local pub where friends also gathered. One told me he was going to start huffing and puffing oh his bicycle.

I implored him to wear a helmet no matter how presidential it made him look (OK OK I made that bit up about presidential - o was an unkown back in the early 90's).

A few weeks later I returned to the same pub and the same friend came up to me and thanked me for nagging him about a helmet. He had fallen off his bicycle on his stone/gravel driveway and hit his helmeted head on the gravel. One of the stones embedded itself in his helmet about 3/4 of an inch. He told me that he would have never forgiven himself if badly injured or killed because of his being the father of 2 young girls.

Yer makes yer choices and plans and then life smacks yer around the back of the head.

Lol
Yep. The choice is there. Wear one if you like.
Any thing else is another money grab.
Sometimes it's possible to get a helmet ticket while actually Wearing a Helmet!
It's true
Government overreach and control at its finest
Got to keep the coffers stocked you know!
In guise of public safety.

[Willow]

I don't care about the stats. i'm all for your own choice but, two  questions for you, I hope you answer.

1. Do you wear a helmet?

2. If you go down at 75 mph and slid your head on the pavement do think a helmet would help?

Willow would be the best to answer that one!

I would estimate the speed at somewhere near 80 mph at the time the bike flipped.  Witnesses say it had already swerved violently so that may have scrubbed off some of the speed.  On impact, or shortly after, I received a brain bleed on the left side, a broken wrist, broken finger on the left hand, the flesh removed from both knees and the backs of the hands, a laceration to the top of the inside of the mouth, broken or shattered bones around both eye sockets, shattered sinuses, a broken neck at the C1, a brain sheer and a broken toe on the left foot under the steel toed boot.  Do I think I would've been dead without a helmet?  Likely so, but Providential protection can work with or without my participation.  Truthfully I should have been dead even with the helmet.

I've been down some five times, twice at speed in the past seven years.  Both times during the past two the presence of a helmet probably extended my life.  When I hit the ford I was ejected for what was likely thirty or forty feet vertical.  The reason I believe the movement was mostly upward was that when I landed on my back there was no slide.  Later investigation of the helmet revealed a tiny chip on the back where my head struck the pavement.  Without the helmet that would've been the back of my head from forty feet skyward.

The trooper at the more recent incident said, "He kept trying to turn over but I was afraid he would drown in the blood."  Maybe we should all wear a trooper just in case.  I didn't drown but it did change my life.  There are folks that didn't like me before that are fine with me now.  There are folks who used to like me who would just as soon not be around me these days.

Am I thankful for the hat?  Yes I am.  Do I ever ride without one?  Maybe once in a while, but don't tell my wife.  Perhaps I'm really not all that smart.

I do strongly believe that the wearing of a helmet should be the decision of the rider, not mandated by law.  I also believe firmly that more often than not the rider should choose to wear.

You all choose what you will do.  Choose wisely.  Either way I hope you'll be safe.

[Momz]

And another bullshit statement (and totally unsupprted) implies that unhelmeted riders drank more alcohol after the helmet law was modified. Really?

"Riders without helmets also drank more alcohol after the law was repealed, based on blood tests at hospital admission"

[Romeo]

You can lead a horse to water, but.............................
The definition of Liberty.

[baird4444]

[Hooter]

And another bullshit statement (and totally unsupprted) implies that unhelmeted riders drank more alcohol after the helmet law was modified. Really?

"Riders without helmets also drank more alcohol after the law was repealed, based on blood tests at hospital admission"

   As soon as I take my helmet off I have an uncontrollable urge to go to the bar.    Where do you get this info? The internet, Snopes, Al Gore? Then it has to be true!   

[WilliamRS]

1. Helmets are illegal in cars because:
       A) They reduce vision
       B) they reduce hearing
       C) they have not proven effective
These 3 conditions magically reverse themselves on Motorcycles
It's true, ask any LEO

2) ANY helmet causes me a LOT of pain

I'm gonna get a Doctors rx preventing me from wearing helmets because they are harmful to my health

Helmets are not illegal in cars.

[PAVALKER]

Based on the post title, I thought this might have been regarding the SOTU address ......

Wear em if ya want and don't if you want....and prepare yourself for the consequences either way.

[Momz]

1. Helmets are illegal in cars because:
       A) They reduce vision
       B) they reduce hearing
       C) they have not proven effective
These 3 conditions magically reverse themselves on Motorcycles
It's true, ask any LEO

2) ANY helmet causes me a LOT of pain

I'm gonna get a Doctors rx preventing me from wearing helmets because they are harmful to my health

Helmets are not illegal in cars.

Wearing a helmet in an automobile may be legal in your state, but it is very illegal in Michigan.

Several years ago, ABATE of MI applied the principles of "Passive Resistance" and "Civil Disobediance" to prove that the states laws were ambiguous at best. We had two groups challenging the statutes by having one group of motorcycle riders that rode without helmets and another group of car/truck drivers that wore full face helmets and drove in predetermined routes in both urban and suburban areas. Everyone in both groups was ticketed several times on that day. ABATE had a corporate lawyer defending these riders/drivers in several jurisdictions and the result was that the greater majority of the District Judges found that the helmet law was unenforceable for motorcyclists. Other District Judges did not want to cause further confusion and tie up the courts with more of these cases, refused to prosecute any more until the laws were made more specific regarding each and every helmet.
 
The drivers that wore helmets were not prosecuted due to the fact that that they were wearing so called "approved" safety helmets that were to allow a full field of vision as specified DMV and DOT for motorcycle use. The ruling was to the effect that if the helmets were safe for motorcycle use and did not impair the riders field of vision, then it would not impair the vision of the car/truck driver. However the law that allows law enforcement to cite a motorists for wearing helmets has not been changed.

[Rams]

Wear em if ya want and don't if you want....and prepare yourself for the consequences either way.

While I always (99.99% of the time) ride with a helmet, I also strongly support the right of qualified riders to make the choice.    Personal responsibility...........

I also sincerely hope those making the decision also consider their loved ones when making that decision.    One of the reasons I gave up riding when my son was 5 years old was because I didn't want him and his baby sister growing up without dad.    I took up riding again when they reached adulthood and I could afford to do it.    But, I strongly support the right of a qualified adult rider to make that choice.    BTW, I also hate seat belts, not because of what they do or don't do but, because I'm forced to wear one.

[Detn8er]

Several years ago, ABATE of MI applied the principles of "Passive Resistance" and "Civil Disobediance" to prove that the states laws were ambiguous at best. We had two groups challenging the statutes by having one group of motorcycle riders that rode without helmets and another group of car/truck drivers that wore full face helmets and drove in predetermined routes in both urban and suburban areas. Everyone in both groups was ticketed several times on that day. ABATE had a corporate lawyer defending these riders/drivers in several jurisdictions and the result was that the greater majority of the District Judges found that the helmet law was unenforceable for motorcyclists. Other District Judges did not want to cause further confusion and tie up the courts with more of these cases, refused to prosecute any more until the laws were made more specific regarding each and every helmet.

DEEP DEEP breath and SIGH........ 

[Willow]

...

DEEP DEEP breath and SIGH........ 

Mark, did you see the picture of the hat you gave me?  Your gift saved my life, man.   

[Detn8er]

...

DEEP DEEP breath and SIGH........ 

Mark, did you see the picture of the hat you gave me?  Your gift saved my life, man.   

Yep I seent it.......The next time I give you a gift I would hope you take better care of it. 

[Valkorado]

...

DEEP DEEP breath and SIGH........ 

Mark, did you see the picture of the hat you gave me?  Your gift saved my life, man.   

Yep I seent it.......The next time I give you a gift I would hope you take better care of it. 

That's incredible!  I'm guessing that's one of the best gifts you've ever received.  Another great VRCC story!   

[GiG]

Helmets are not illegal in cars.

EVEN MORE Outright Lies and Complete Bullshit WRS
Hey, just because you are required to on your bus... 

[Willow]

...

DEEP DEEP breath and SIGH........ 

Mark, did you see the picture of the hat you gave me?  Your gift saved my life, man.   

Yep I seent it.......The next time I give you a gift I would hope you take better care of it. 

Next time?  Didja have something in mind?  Oh, that's right.  The ball's in my court.  I did ask for that gift, didn't I?  It was after the request you were kind enough to give.   

[fudgie]

I don't care about the stats. i'm all for your own choice but, two  questions for you, I hope you answer.

1. Do you wear a helmet?

2. If you go down at 75 mph and slid your head on the pavement do think a helmet would help?

1. 99%-no

2. Sliding yes. Blunt force trauma, no.

[fudgie]

My comments to all that don't like to wear a helmet.....it's not nearly as restrictive as a wheelchair. That's assuming you live to tell about it.

That statement is always on my mind.

If I wear one and crash and end up loosing a limb or being in a wheel chair the rest of my life, never to ride again, would suck. I wouldn't want that.

If I didn't wear one and crashed and died Id be happy going out the way I enjoy, on my bike.

[fudgie]

I think everyone should wear one in the house. I pick up way to many head injuries from a simple fall at home.   

[bscrive]

Up here in Canada we don't get a choice.  Helmets are mandatory.  Even if they weren't, I would still wear one.  I have had an accident, and I remember the back of my helmet hitting the road.  If I didn't have it on I have no doubts I would have been killed, and I was only going 30mph at the time as well.  I believe as well that it should be a choice for the individual rider, but I would never ride without one.

[Hooter]

I don't care about the stats. i'm all for your own choice but, two  questions for you, I hope you answer.

1. Do you wear a helmet?

2. If you go down at 75 mph and slid your head on the pavement do think a helmet would help?

1. 99%-no

2. Sliding yes. Blunt force trauma, no.

   For those that don't get to see the end result as we do it is hard to understand what goes on with or without.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I think everyone should wear one in the house. I pick up way to many head injuries from a simple fall at home.   

You might want to cut back on your alcohol intake 

[ptgb]

As always, any advocacy group can cherry-pick data to support their own stance. In five minutes, I found five articles specific to Michigan that show the crash data presented in different manners all which are true and valid, just bent towards their own way of thinking.

Free choice is all well and good, until your "choice" affects me. A good example would be maybe all the increases to MY medical insurance premiums (or car insurance premiums) might be partially due to some moe who who decided not to wear a helmet, crash, and then I (along with everyone else in the "pool") pays for his lifetime of care after making his "free choice".

But them again the same could be said for smokers, fatties, reckless drivers, alcoholics, unsafe sexers, and other partakers of bad habits (some of which I do or have done in my life).

[fudgie]

I think everyone should wear one in the house. I pick up way to many head injuries from a simple fall at home.   

You might want to cut back on your alcohol intake 

I only slip and fall at bars.