For all of you that liked OCC

[Bonzo]

I never thought much of them, Dad is OK but here they go again screwing the area  again :
http://www.bikerspost.com/article/292/orange-county-choppers-hitting-the-auction-block

[The emperor has no clothes]

I haven't seen them in ages. What is going on now ?

[Bonzo]

Their showplace store and cafe are up for bank auction, and Sr. filed for bankruptcy to protect his assets from his merchandising business.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Oh, I had no idea. Is Junior involved or are they still not talking ? I know it's perfectly legal, but it always seems wrong that someone can go bankrupt and still be wealthy.

[G-Man]

Oh, I had no idea. Is Junior involved or are they still not talking ? I know it's perfectly legal, but it always seems wrong that someone can go bankrupt and still be wealthy.

HE didn't go bankrupt, the business did.  He'll lose anything he put into the business, but he can't lose his personal stuff.  This is a good thing, no? 

[The emperor has no clothes]

Oh, I had no idea. Is Junior involved or are they still not talking ? I know it's perfectly legal, but it always seems wrong that someone can go bankrupt and still be wealthy.

HE didn't go bankrupt, the business did.  He'll lose anything he put into the business, but he can't lose his personal stuff.  This is a good thing, no? 

I'm not a tax lawyer or a lawyer of any kind. But it seems to me that if someone sucks all the eguity out of a business for their personal account they shouldn't be able to get by without a scratch. I don't know anything of this case, I'm just speaking in general.

[G-Man]

I don't know, I consider myself a real biker.  I ride when I can.  I've ridden in all kinds of weather (I hate rain), for all kinds of distances, I've ridden in too many charity rides to remember them all, I don't have any tattoos, and I enjoyed watching the show on TV.

I was able to separate out the soap opera crap and honed in on the bikes and the fabrication.  Some of them are very talented at what they do.  That guy Rick is a true fabricator in every sense of the word and Junior designed some really nice bikes.  And it was kind of a patriotic show as well.  Members of the military were frequently shown and they built many, many bikes for charity,........ that Senior would buy back with the highest bids at the auctions.  

I've taken my son up there a couple of times and it was great to see him excited about the NY Giants bike and the Santa bike, etc.  Some of the bikes are real works of art, in my opinion.

At last years Pow Wow, we stopped there for lunch and had a pretty good time.  Food wasn't bad, no hurry to leave, not too expensive either from what I recall.  

[Bonzo]

Walmart sold more OCC stuff then the store ever did,  The charity and memorial bikes were very nice but always self promotional. Hey they were a business. Senior is a shrewd businessman and was wealthy before OCC. The Cafe was the best part of the joint.   

[G-Man]

Oh, I had no idea. Is Junior involved or are they still not talking ? I know it's perfectly legal, but it always seems wrong that someone can go bankrupt and still be wealthy.

HE didn't go bankrupt, the business did.  He'll lose anything he put into the business, but he can't lose his personal stuff.  This is a good thing, no? 

I'm not a tax lawyer or a lawyer of any kind. But it seems to me that if someone sucks all the eguity out of a business for their personal account they shouldn't be able to get by without a scratch. I don't know anything of this case, I'm just speaking in general.

Why shouldn't you be able to keep the profits the business made before it went bad?

I own a bar and for ten years it does great.  I live in million dollar home and drive a Bentley.  My kids go to expensive colleges, I employ 15 people, gave a lot to charity along the way, and paid all kinds of taxes.  All of a sudden the gov't tries again with prohibition and my business tanks.  Should I have to sell my house and cars, take my kids out of school, etc.?  

It's like the Left's healthcare argument.  Why should an illness break someone?  Why should a failed business break someone?

[Serk]

Oh, I had no idea. Is Junior involved or are they still not talking ? I know it's perfectly legal, but it always seems wrong that someone can go bankrupt and still be wealthy.

HE didn't go bankrupt, the business did.  He'll lose anything he put into the business, but he can't lose his personal stuff.  This is a good thing, no? 

I'm not a tax lawyer or a lawyer of any kind. But it seems to me that if someone sucks all the eguity out of a business for their personal account they shouldn't be able to get by without a scratch. I don't know anything of this case, I'm just speaking in general.

Getting into some serious thread drift here, but I'm guessing your issue is more one of understanding (Or understanding but disagreeing with) the concept of corporate personhood.

[Hooter]

   I saw some of these bikes up close and some of them were terrible. Sr. crap on everybody even though some of it was TV. When I met these guys they all smelled like a brewery. When he lost Jr., Vinney and Cody he was done. If he would have lost Rick at the same time he would have folded sooner. Show was a putts and Sr. deserves what he gets. Got rich quick and pissed  his money away instead of takin care of it like he should have.

   I watched it for a while off and on but the way they disrespected everything from the buildings, other / all property and each other, who had time for watching that crap?

[The emperor has no clothes]

Oh, I had no idea. Is Junior involved or are they still not talking ? I know it's perfectly legal, but it always seems wrong that someone can go bankrupt and still be wealthy.

HE didn't go bankrupt, the business did.  He'll lose anything he put into the business, but he can't lose his personal stuff.  This is a good thing, no? 

I'm not a tax lawyer or a lawyer of any kind. But it seems to me that if someone sucks all the eguity out of a business for their personal account they shouldn't be able to get by without a scratch. I don't know anything of this case, I'm just speaking in general.

Why shouldn't you be able to keep the profits the business made before it went bad?

I own a bar and for ten years it does great.  I live in million dollar home and drive a Bentley.  My kids go to expensive colleges, I employ 15 people, gave a lot to charity along the way, and paid all kinds of taxes.  All of a sudden the gov't tries again with prohibition and my business tanks.  Should I have to sell my house and cars, take my kids out of school, etc.?  

It's like the Left's healthcare argument.  Why should an illness break someone?  Why should a failed business break someone?

Let me present another scenario and question. But first to answer your question. I don't think the odds are very good that would happen but for the sake of argument. No in that situation I don't think you should have to sell everything. But if you as a bar owner for ten years were successful and a competitor came in the area and you were losing business. If you refinanced the business and took all the equity into your personal account and then sold all the equipment and leased it back and also took that money into your personal account. And then at this point being 5 million richer decided the business couldn't make it and filed bankruptcy. Yes at this point I would say it's wrong. Not illegal but wrong. The example you give comparing healthcare and a business is specious at best. It's pretty hard to pull equity out of ones body.  

[Black Pearl's Captain]

I've always thought he was a bit out there but overall a really cool guy. I hope he doesn't loose the Valk.  

[The emperor has no clothes]

Oh, I had no idea. Is Junior involved or are they still not talking ? I know it's perfectly legal, but it always seems wrong that someone can go bankrupt and still be wealthy.

HE didn't go bankrupt, the business did.  He'll lose anything he put into the business, but he can't lose his personal stuff.  This is a good thing, no? 

I'm not a tax lawyer or a lawyer of any kind. But it seems to me that if someone sucks all the eguity out of a business for their personal account they shouldn't be able to get by without a scratch. I don't know anything of this case, I'm just speaking in general.

Getting into some serious thread drift here, but I'm guessing your issue is more one of understanding (Or understanding but disagreeing with) the concept of corporate personhood.

Uh Oh.... You are not channeling Romney are you ? "Corporations are people, my friend"

I've always thought he was a bit out there but overall a really cool guy. I hope he doesn't loose the Valk.   

[Serk]

Uh Oh.... You are not channeling Romney are you ? "Corporations are people, my friend"

'ole Mittens got many things very wrong, but this is indeed one area he was very right in. Corporations are people, my friend. Legally... (Mostly)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood

[The emperor has no clothes]

Uh Oh.... You are not channeling Romney are you ? "Corporations are people, my friend"

'ole Mittens got many things very wrong, but this is indeed one area he was very right in. Corporations are people, my friend. Legally... (Mostly)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood

Mostly being the operative word. 

[DK]

If the trustee in bankruptcy decides you made any inordinate transfers of assets from the business he can set them aside and recover your personal assets for the benefit of the creditors.

Although I never did any bankruptcy practice, we had a creditor bankruptcy division at the firm and I did have to deal with it to some degree in the course of doing commercial transactions, I dealt with it enough to learn that the powers of a trustee in bankruptcy can be frightening. Aside from fraudulent acts, look back periods exist allowing the trustee to set transactions aside for no reason other than having occurred to near in point of time to filing. If he determines one creditor was paid proportionally more than another, aside it goes. Transfers to family or to anyone not for value are set aside as preferences.

I have been awe-stricken several times about things my bankruptcy partners did to persons filing for bankruptcy. Given Paul Sr.'s noteriety, he would have had to be either on the up & up or have carefully planned the bankruptcy well in advance with the help of willing and competent counsel.

Dan

[The emperor has no clothes]

If the trustee in bankruptcy decides you made any inordinate transfers of assets from the business he can set them aside and recover your personal assets for the benefit of the creditors.

Although I never did any bankruptcy practice, we had a creditor bankruptcy division at the firm and I did have to deal with it to some degree in the course of doing commercial transactions, I dealt with it enough to learn that the powers of a trustee in bankruptcy can be frightening. Aside from fraudulent acts, look back periods exist allowing the trustee to set transactions aside for no reason other than having occurred to near in point of time to filing. If he determines one creditor was paid proportionally more than another, aside it goes. Transfers to family or to anyone not for value are set aside as preferences.

I have been awe-stricken several times about things my bankruptcy partners did to persons filing for bankruptcy. Given Paul Sr.'s noteriety, he would have had to be either on the up & up or have carefully planned the bankruptcy well in advance with the help of willing and competent counsel.

Dan

Thanks for the info.  No disrespect to lawyers, but I would think willing and competent are available.

[Atl-Jerry]

I have several pair of OCC wrap around sunglasses that I wear almost daily courtesy of the AT&T safety program.  I was surprised to see them on the list of approved safety glasses, much nicer that the usual "birth control" glasses they usually issued.

[G-Man]

Oh, I had no idea. Is Junior involved or are they still not talking ? I know it's perfectly legal, but it always seems wrong that someone can go bankrupt and still be wealthy.

HE didn't go bankrupt, the business did.  He'll lose anything he put into the business, but he can't lose his personal stuff.  This is a good thing, no? 

I'm not a tax lawyer or a lawyer of any kind. But it seems to me that if someone sucks all the eguity out of a business for their personal account they shouldn't be able to get by without a scratch. I don't know anything of this case, I'm just speaking in general.

Why shouldn't you be able to keep the profits the business made before it went bad?

I own a bar and for ten years it does great.  I live in million dollar home and drive a Bentley.  My kids go to expensive colleges, I employ 15 people, gave a lot to charity along the way, and paid all kinds of taxes.  All of a sudden the gov't tries again with prohibition and my business tanks.  Should I have to sell my house and cars, take my kids out of school, etc.?  

It's like the Left's healthcare argument.  Why should an illness break someone?  Why should a failed business break someone?

Let me present another scenario and question. But first to answer your question. I don't think the odds are very good that would happen but for the sake of argument. No in that situation I don't think you should have to sell everything. But if you as a bar owner for ten years were successful and a competitor came in the area and you were losing business. If you refinanced the business and took all the equity into your personal account and then sold all the equipment and leased it back and also took that money into your personal account. And then at this point being 5 million richer decided the business couldn't make it and filed bankruptcy. Yes at this point I would say it's wrong. Not illegal but wrong. The example you give comparing healthcare and a business is specious at best. It's pretty hard to pull equity out of ones body.  

For every scenario I come up with, you can up with another one as well.  The difference is, I don't automatically assume wrong doing.  I don't assume the ones with money attained it with deception or theft.  Your scenario sounds like what the Soprano's did to the sporting goods store.  I'm sure that's not the norm.

Now remove the stealing equity thingy from your scenario and my analogy to health care is OK. 

Or don't remove it and compare it to a guy who drinks and smokes for 50 years and eats pizza, burgers, and chinese food every week for all those years, who gets sick directly due to his own behavior.  It can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he learned these things were bad for him in grade school and what illnesses they could cause.  They even have the test on the subject matter on which he scored a 100%.  Why should he be given healthcare and not bankrupted?  Afterall, it was his own fault, right?

Sorry for the highjack.

[Willow]

I've always thought he was a bit out there but overall a really cool guy. I hope he doesn't loose the Valk.  

Ha, ha, Raymond.     That particular Valkyrie was lost almost three years ago just south of Emporia, Kansas at about eighty miles per hour.  I miss her but have acquired another that looks almost exactly the same.  That was a really fun trip, BTW.

I don't see the resemblance myself, but even if it does exist those who know me will tell you I'm a lot nicer guy than Paul Sr.   

[Bonzo]

It is an old game with them:

http://www.recordonline.com/article/20070626/News/706260312

[Moonshot_1]

 "a guy who drinks and smokes for 50 years and eats pizza, burgers, and chinese food every week for all those years, who gets sick directly due to his own behavior.  It can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he learned these things were bad for him in grade school and what illnesses they could cause."


First time I've ever heard about that stuff being bad for ya. The Chinese people always seem generally healthy so that undermines your entire argument about the smokes, booze, pizza and burgers too.

  

[Bonzo]

Some more interesting tid bits:
http://www.recordonline.com/article/20130301/BIZ/303010387

[Firefighter]

I remember looking forward to the first season, a Motorcycle show, we don't get those.  I wanted to learn something new or see something new. I was mostly disappointed in the show, talented people, but it was centered around a theme bike, always a chopper, arguments, put on displays of stupidity and violence, then starts all the family drama. I wanted to cut all the BS and lets work on motorcycles!

[big d]

Hooter, you obviously are not up to speed on the tuetle history. SR made a fur tune in the iron works business that one of his other sons is managing. It is still highly profitable. As for his reputation of being an A-hole is fictional. I lived in the area and ran into Sr at restaurants all the time. Every restaurant employee loved him as did all the patrons that approached him. Sr always took time out to say hello and was never rude. As for Jr and the drug addicted son Michael they always were too good for everyone else. Know the facts before you comment. You are as bad as the drive by media that wants to jump on the band wagon just to criticize him.

   I wish everyone would not inject their opinion as if they are facts. And that applies to all topics.

[Rams]

Watched the show a few times, didn't care for the bikes or the drama.............

Having said that, I hate to see any business fail.   IMHO, their failure represents their inability to produce what the buying public wants, that includes motorcycles and TV entertainment.   

[Michvalk]

I've always thought he was a bit out there but overall a really cool guy. I hope he doesn't loose the Valk.   

Ha, ha, Raymond.     That particular Valkyrie was lost almost three years ago just south of Emporia, Kansas at about eighty miles per hour.  I miss her but have acquired another that looks almost exactly the same.  That was a really fun trip, BTW.

I don't see the resemblance myself, but even if it does exist those who know me will tell you I'm a lot nicer guy than Paul Sr.   

I have only met you once, ( at a Michigan Inzane) and only briefly. I am sure you are a much nicer person than Paul Sr.

[Bonzo]

Big D, Sr. is not a bad guy, would i go into business with him? No.I am a local guy also. I spoke with a fellow who does the open mics there and some how works there occasionally and he says that just the building is going up for auction and that OCC is just a tenant and will remain there. I ain.t no real estate mogul or expert but auction sales ain't usually a sign of healthy transactions.

[old2soon]

I watched the first season and a half-I KNOW-but soon grew tired of the infighting and the phony "deadlines". And they mostly built the same M/C over and over and-yeah-Major B/S. I did get to see the "Dixie Chopper" up close and personal-nice build. But other than THAT-not so much. RIDE SAFE.

[John Schmidt]

I was a State auditor in Florida for 30 years. Many times, if we could prove that corporate  money (especially tax money collected) was converted to personal use, it was no big problem to recover it from whatever the converted funds were used on. If it was used to pay for a condo on the beach, fancy car payments....you get the idea, it was acquired through the courts then sold. I recall one guy I audited many years ago, he had his fantastically sexy secretary set up in her own apartment on the Gulf, and a new Lincoln every other year. She was a good 25 yrs. younger than him and actually had a regular guy of her own age. I guess she was a little irritated with him when she got put out on the street. Gave me a good chuckle. We got the car and the apartment and sold it for a major profit. The apt. was like a condo where you had ownership.

One thing in her favor.....she actually was a great secretary. Could actually type, take shorthand, really computer savvy.....but stupid. It was an interesting job/career. 

[BudMan]

 

Tell ya what a rock I live under; I thought when I saw that thread,"Wow, who else in this crowd knows about Oklahoma City Community College"? (I just mentally put in the missing C. We all call it O Triple C.
Oh well, back under my rock now...

[Bonzo]

Quote from Paul Sr. :

"There should be a law against Renegade reporters!
Does it make sense to write a story then come the day after to check the facts? Orange County Choppers signed a ten year lease in September of 2015. The finance company is
flipping the building, as that lease makes it much more valuable. However ,the story that comes out is we are going to Auction. The good news is we are not going anywhere."