OFF TOPIC (NON-VALKYRIE) No Start Astro Van RESOLVED

[vanagon40]

EDIT 03/28/16--RESOLVED: It was the coil. See Reply 21 for details.

I have a 1999 Astro Van (2WD, 4.3 L V6). About 132,000 miles. Since I purchased it (2011), it would not start in extreme rain. I knew (or at least strongly suspected) the problem was the coil. If I wanted to get the van started, I could shoot a hair dryer at the coil for 30 minutes and good to go.

On Tuesday, January 12, 2016, the van died on the way to work. It was right at 32° and snowy (i.e., high humidity). Oddly, after sitting for about 30 minutes (waiting for my wife), the van started and ran fine. It ran fine the next day, Wednesday, but would not start on Thursday. Again, it was very humid. There was a lot of sparking and arcing with the old coil. That evening, I replaced the coil.

The van ran fine until Monday, February 29, 2016, when it again died on my way to work. This time there was no restarting the van. That evening I determined the fuel pump had died. I replaced the fuel pump on Saturday, March 5. The van started and ran fine until March 10, 2016.

On Thursday, March 10, 2016, the van started sputtering on the way to work. It kept running, but a little rough. I got to work and parked. Again, it was raining and high humidity. The van would not start that evening (or ever again). It would not start on Friday or Sunday (I did not try on Saturday). I pulled the van home on Sunday.

It still will not hit a lick. I do not believe it is a fuel problem. I sprayed a little bit of starting fluid in the throttle body, but no effect. I dumped about 2 ounces of gas in the throttle body, no difference. There is voltage to the fuel pump at the initial “on” position and while cranking, I can hear and feel the pump running. Finally, I unhooked the return line at the fuel pump and there was good pressure there when turned to the initial “on” position.

I have an old inductive timing light and it shows a spark on the all wires. I replaced the coil wire, distributor cap, and rotor. Still no sign of starting. Checked after dark tonight and no obvious arcing or sparking. Good battery and good charge.

I am at a loss.

Any suggestions?

[The emperor has no clothes]

I wish I could help, but I don't know. I do know I hate AstroVans. Had a '94 that we bought to haul around kids for hockey. Hardest damn vehicle to work on of all the vehicles I've ever had. 

[signart]

Take a new spark plug and remove plug wire and check fire using that. You have to hold it near or touch a clean ground. If hot spark, pull plugs from eng and test. If no spark, I would get a reman distributor from Advance or AZ (about $100). You'll get a new control module, coil, coil pick up, cap and everything to drop in and run. I'd go ahead and put plugs & wires on also.
If you have good fire, you have fuel problem. Good luck.

[Bigwolf]

I loved my 98 Astro.  They do require some extensive skills and equipment for anything beyond simple routine maintenance.  I put a 5.7 in mine when the original 4.3 spun some bearings.
OK, here are my thoughts about your problem.  Since moisture seems to agravate the problem, I am thinking it is probably electrical.  First, I woud suspect a faulty distributer cap.  Those are a very poor design and often cross fire within the cap. You cannot check them with a normal ohm meter.  They can only be tested under high voltage.  If this is your problem, then the check eng light should be on and a check of the computer codes will show a "radom missfire" message.  That computer will tell you which plug is not firing if the problem is ever constant on a particular plug. 
The next thing on my mind would be all the ignition components.  If the coil went bad, I would be looking at new plugs, plug wires, rotor button and cap.  If the cap has moisture in it, that can be the problem. By the way, shooting a hair dryer at the coil will also warm the distributer and cap and possibly dry them some too. While we are talking about electrical problems in this vehicle, you may want to do a very detailed inspection of the  4 wiring bundles coming from the 4 connectors on the computer.  Those lay right against the inner fender.  Mine rubbed a bare spot on the power wire to the computer.  It took several months of my time, 2 weeks at an auto repair shop, and another month of my time to find and fix.  It was an intermittent short.
Another possibility is the fuel injectors in that engine are prone to freezing shut.  I  do not think this is your problem.  If it was your problem, it would start when you sqirt gassoline in the intake.
You said you checked the fuel pressure on the return line.  ?  I don't quite understand that check.  There is a fitting on top of the engine in the supply line.  It looks like a tire valve but is there to check the supply pressure.  This needs 55 lbs pressure when the key is turned on but the engine is not running.  I bought a new fuel pump for my Astro when I put the 5.7 in.  A month later, I put the old fuel pump back in while sitting on the side of the road because the new pump had quit supplying enough volume of fuel.  I was stranded there till I put the old pump in.

[Bigwolf]

You did not say if you had a check engine light showing.  Knowing that might help to diagnose,

[Robert]

Cap rotor wires and of course spark plugs are the things I would check. A timing light is not a good check because the voltage required to trigger it is less that what is required to fire the plugs. Pull the dist wire from the coil out spark or no spark, keep going down the line till you get no spark. There is a fuel fitting on the line that goes to the injectors exposed so you can take a reading. I doubt its fuel because if you had spark it would have fired with the starting fluid. I have seen the pumps go bad on them but spark is usually the culprit. These also have a crank and cam position sensors and I have seen the crank position sensors go bad regularly. Its on the front of the crank and I would inspect it to see if the wires are ok to it. They get full of grease and stop working or just go bad. Sometimes you will get a code for crank position sensor when scanned. they are made of plastic and the contacts or magnets will go to far apart also. Sometimes for diagnostic purposes you might be able to clean it or adjust it a bit and have the thing start.

[Binkie]

I would replace the cam position sensor in the distributor. Sounds like it's not syncing up. I had this happen in my 99 Tahoe....replaced every ignition component and still did it. Replaced the cam sensor and never had another problem.

[signart]

I like to go to where is matters to eliminate no spark. If all plugs have hot spark, it ought to start at least, if not run rough. Instead of replacing cap, rotor, ign. module, coil, and coil pickup (which requires removal of dist.) Just buy a complete rebuilt dist, which contains all new electrical components for less money. Silly not to buy 6 wires and plugs while you have them out. Money spent here is not wasted if it turns out not to be the problem, but you'll a have better running van once you nail down the remedy.
The dist. usually has a lifetime warranty and when any part inside fails, I just pull the whole thing and exchange for a replacement of the complete dist.
I am assuming your coil is under the cap, I don't know if yours has an external coil pack, but still applies.

You also have a crank position sensor, but all these sensors usually are not the cause of sporadic no start, they either work or they don't.

[vanagon40]

In the 4½ years I have owned the van, the Check Engine Light has never been on (with the exception of the time I forgot to connect the Mass Air Flow Sensor).

I checked for fuel at the return line because I did not have a gauge for the schrader valve and I wanted to rule out a plugged fuel filter.

[Robert]

I think a tire pressure gauge will fit but if you have a stream of fuel coming out of the fitting when cranking then your probably ok.

[bassman]

Friend had similar problems on his old Chevy van.....turned out to be distributor cap and rotor in the long run.  Several mechanics tried to solve starting problem using after market parts in the process.  Last guy used OEM cap and rotor which solved HIS problem.  Another friend worked at GM for 30 plus years and said to ALWAYS use OEM replacement parts.  I can't prove or disprove that logic.   Your experiences and thoughts may differ widely.  Just passing along what I was told.

Good luck. 

[Bigwolf]

I think a tire pressure gauge will fit but if you have a stream of fuel coming out of the fitting when cranking then your probably ok.

Not so!  The fuel pressure test port/valve is not the same as a tire valve. It just looks very similar.   Also, the injectors are a poppet type and require some good pressure to force the fuel past the poppet.  The manual recommends 55 to 60 lbs with key on and engine not running.  In some cases, the pressure will be there but it will not supply enough volume.

You can borrow a fuel pressure test kit from auto parts stores like Auto Zone, Advance, O Rileys.

As has been said here, an induction timing light will trigger on voltage well below what is required for a spark at the plug.   While you are picking up a fuel pressure test gage, see if you can also borrow a spark tester.  I usually just use an old spark plug and clamp it to a bracket on the engine.  A regular tester amounts to the same thing but is easier to clamp to something.

With the informattion now furnished, I would start by testing for a good strong spark.  If that is good, then I would test the fuel system more thoroughly.   If the spark is not good, then I would be looking into the distributer.  Be sure to mark the orientation of the distributer before you move it.  Orientation is important because of the cam position sensor.  It will not be good to have that sensor reading in error.  If the problem is moisture in the distributer, a good dousing of WD 40 inside the distributer wwill probablyrobably get it running.

[Bigwolf]

Well that post f'd up at the end and I cannot get back to it to fix it.   

Anyway, if you do find moisture in the distributer,  I would suggest a new rotor and cap as soon as possible and be sure check/clean the vent in the distributer.

[Willow]

Well that post f'd up at the end and I cannot get back to it to fix it.   

Can't get back to it to fix it?  It's easy to do.  As the owner you can click on "Modify" and make whatever changes you wish.

[Bigwolf]

Well that post f'd up at the end and I cannot get back to it to fix it.   

Can't get back to it to fix it?  It's easy to do.  As the owner you can click on "Modify" and make whatever changes you wish.

Yes, I have done that many times.  However, I am now working from a very small tablet because my computer died several week's ago.   When I try to go back and edit that post, I cannot scroll down to the place I need to make the edits.

[bentwrench]

If I'm not mistaken that's a vortec system which has another sensor down at the timing cover.Find some one with a good scan tool and check for a steady cranking rpm on the data display.If it's not there it's probably the that sensor or the wiring from it to the pcm.These things get oil soaked and ugly pretty quick with that stupid plastic timing cover.

[gordonv]

All I can add, is had the same problems on our 05' Astro at work. Was first the fuel pump, hard to start. Then the coil. Died on my after I went over the top of a bridge, rolled off the other side. Was the coil a second time.

2 Very common issues with the Astro.

[vanagon40]

No chance to check it last night.  I had replaced the distributor cap and rotor with AC Delco parts (and the inside of the distributor cap showed typical wear corrosion at the contact points, but it was dry).  I will try checking the spark with an actual spark plug (hopefully tonight).  Thanks for all the suggestions.

[Skinhead]

If you can see arcing at the cap, I'd replace the plug wires as well ( did not go back and re-read to see if you did this already).  I assume you have the doghouse off, so try cranking it in a darkened garage or at night and watch for arcing.

And I also agree with Binkie, if no spark, replace the cam position sensor.  The "distributor" on these was actually called a High voltage switch as it had the cam position sensor in the distributor.  Also check and make sure the HVS is installed correctly (not 180* out).

[Bigwolf]

I have a 1999 Astro Van (2WD, 4.3 L V6). About 132,000 miles.

The van ran fine until Monday, February 29, 2016, when it again died on my way to work. This time there was no restarting the van. That evening I determined the fuel pump had died. I replaced the fuel pump on Saturday, March 5. The van started and ran fine until March 10, 2016.

On Thursday, March 10, 2016, the van started sputtering on the way to work. It kept running, but a little rough. ......  I dumped about 2 ounces of gas in the throttle body, no difference. There is voltage to the fuel pump at the initial “on” position and while cranking, I can hear and feel the pump running.

I was rereading your original post.  What I have quoted here, I must have missed the first time I read it.  That is exactly how my Astro acted when the brand new AC Delco fuel pump went bad.  I could hear the fuel pump revving up and changing speed when sitting still a few days before it stranded me on the side of the road.

[Bigwolf]

I am betting that your almost new fuel pump is trash just like mine was.   Mine was an AC DELCO too.   I got less than a month of service from it.

[vanagon40]

It was the coil. I got delayed on this project and the emergency ceased when I got my old Toyota running.

I figured I would check the things I had already replaced rather than plowing new ground. I borrowed a fuel pressure tester at AutoZone and had 60 psi. I was pretty confident it was not a fuel problem due to my previous rough testing procedures.

I had replaced the coil in January with a new Duralast (AutoZone) coil. I still had the original coil that worked (but arced and would fail under high humidity conditions). I was able to wire in the old coil without removing the replacement and the van fired right up.

Replaced the coil with another Duralast and the van starts and runs great. Checked after dark and no arcing anywhere. I think I am again good to go.

Thanks for all the suggestions and advice.