UTAH CAUCUS: First hand insider report - Incompetence, Manipulation, and Ballot

[98valk]

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message3126238/pg1?disclaimer=1

"Just got back from my caucus... My head is still spinning.

Check in was slow but reasonably controlled. Super-long lines. I've never seen turnout like this.

Got my credentials, but no presidential ballot. They said those would be delivered to our caucus room.

Got to my caucus room. I counted about 120 people there (no idea how many were actually registered and credentialed).

We elected Precinct Officers, State Delegates, and County Delegates - the typical incompetence and ignorance of the rules you'd expect to see from volunteers, but all went somewhat smooth.

...Then came the Presidential Ballot.

Someone shows up with a stack of probably 250 ballots. The precinct chair splits them up, and starts handing stacks of them out and tells people "take one and pass it down".

No checking credentials, IDs, NOTHING.

I'm sitting at the end of a row and people start handing me stacks of extras. I literally had over 50 ballots in my hand.

 [link to i.imgur.com (secure)]

We were told to mark our vote and place our ballot in a tin can. They then asked for a volunteer to hold the can. At this point, most people filed out the door.

I cast ONE vote, then stuck around to see what would happen with the votes.

About 15 minutes later, with only about 10 or so people milling around, someone walks in the room with an envelopes STUFFED full of "absentee" ballots - some envelopes having 2-5+ ballots.

I raised a question and said, "isn't there an absentee process already in place? Didn't people have to register for that last week?" and was told "Oh no, this is completely normal".

As I've mentioned in other threads, I was in Party leadership for 6 years and no, this is absolutely not normal.

I then asked if I could observe the vote count, and I was told my observations where not needed and to leave the area while the ballots were being counted.

I left the room (things were already a complete Charlie Foxtrot at this point) and wandered over to my friends precinct caucus to see if it was just as much a cluster.

His caucus was just getting to the presidential ballot, and as I walked in the door I was handed ANOTHER BALLOT.

Again, no credential check, no ID check, NOTHING.

No, I didn't vote again...

I went back to my precinct and they had the results:
74% Cruz
14% Trump
11% Kasich

Now just imagine this kind of outright incompetence/manipulation happening in 2000 precincts across the state.

As I left the building, I started overhearing results coming back from other precincts... Overwhelmingly numbers for Cruz... Like 70-90% or more. (In one precinct Cruz got around 100, Trump had 2, Kasich 0)

Bottom line... They basically are going to post whatever the hell numbers they want.

There were no apparent controls, no credential checks, no ID checks, and ballots being handed around like napkins.

UTAH RESULTS ARE A COMPLETE SHAM

And it just cost Trump 40 delegates."

[baldo]

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message3126238/pg1?disclaimer=1

"Just got back from my caucus... My head is still spinning.

Check in was slow but reasonably controlled. Super-long lines. I've never seen turnout like this.

Got my credentials, but no presidential ballot. They said those would be delivered to our caucus room.

Got to my caucus room. I counted about 120 people there (no idea how many were actually registered and credentialed).

We elected Precinct Officers, State Delegates, and County Delegates - the typical incompetence and ignorance of the rules you'd expect to see from volunteers, but all went somewhat smooth.

...Then came the Presidential Ballot.

Someone shows up with a stack of probably 250 ballots. The precinct chair splits them up, and starts handing stacks of them out and tells people "take one and pass it down".

No checking credentials, IDs, NOTHING.

I'm sitting at the end of a row and people start handing me stacks of extras. I literally had over 50 ballots in my hand.

 [link to i.imgur.com (secure)]

We were told to mark our vote and place our ballot in a tin can. They then asked for a volunteer to hold the can. At this point, most people filed out the door.

I cast ONE vote, then stuck around to see what would happen with the votes.

About 15 minutes later, with only about 10 or so people milling around, someone walks in the room with an envelopes STUFFED full of "absentee" ballots - some envelopes having 2-5+ ballots.

I raised a question and said, "isn't there an absentee process already in place? Didn't people have to register for that last week?" and was told "Oh no, this is completely normal".

As I've mentioned in other threads, I was in Party leadership for 6 years and no, this is absolutely not normal.

I then asked if I could observe the vote count, and I was told my observations where not needed and to leave the area while the ballots were being counted.

I left the room (things were already a complete Charlie Foxtrot at this point) and wandered over to my friends precinct caucus to see if it was just as much a cluster.

His caucus was just getting to the presidential ballot, and as I walked in the door I was handed ANOTHER BALLOT.

Again, no credential check, no ID check, NOTHING.

No, I didn't vote again...

I went back to my precinct and they had the results:
74% Cruz
14% Trump
11% Kasich

Now just imagine this kind of outright incompetence/manipulation happening in 2000 precincts across the state.

As I left the building, I started overhearing results coming back from other precincts... Overwhelmingly numbers for Cruz... Like 70-90% or more. (In one precinct Cruz got around 100, Trump had 2, Kasich 0)

Bottom line... They basically are going to post whatever the hell numbers they want.

There were no apparent controls, no credential checks, no ID checks, and ballots being handed around like napkins.

UTAH RESULTS ARE A COMPLETE SHAM

And it just cost Trump 40 delegates."

Well, it's not good news at all. The whole caucus system, on both sides, really seems to be a joke and a farce.

I have to say though. I was happy to hear the 'official' results, although probably not for the same reason as some.   

[J.Mencalice]

Must have been posted by a Baptist that snuck in the side door of the caucus precinct.  Outnumbered again in SLC.
Mitt stuck it to Drumpf right up to the hilt; he is a bishop in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, you know.
Did you really think that the Mormons would favor Donald the Gentile Devil at ground zero of Mr. Brigham Young and after the Mittmeister called him out a couple of weeks ago? 

Utah is just a little different...just a little!   
One of their options for capital punishment is to have a group of men fire rifles at your chest and blow a hole out the back side that you could drive a truck through.  They still think that Ted Cruz is a moderate and hate Hillary so much that they voted for Bernie!  Drumpf?  He's a lightweight in their eyes (which they will pluck out and feed to the pigs if they offend thee).
Go Beehive State Go!

[mike72903]

And it just cost Trump 40 delegates."

You go Utes.  Utes?  Utes, right?

[Gavin_Sons]

Could this be how the presidential election was won the last 2 times?  ???

[Bighead]

Could this be how the presidential election was won the last 2 times?  ???

Nah surely not.

[Alpha Dog]

Thanks for that update 98Valk.  Woke up this am and heard on radio.  Last poll results were Cruz in the high 40s.  I thought my gosh someone did not get it right.  Seems a lot of shenigans in those caucus states.  Quite the antiquated system.  Even Rubio won a caucus when he could not get over 15 percent anywhere else. 

Oh well, we see what happened when the state next door was on the up and up and had a real primary.  The true outsider smoked Lyin Ted by 20 points. He increased his lead at a rate higher than he needs to get the 1237.  Most of the states left are very favorable.   Heard a dem on radio today from Staten Island.  She said dems in droves there are switching to Republican ticket to vote Trump at the rate of 71 percent.  Same for a Long Island, Queens, a good portion of Brooklyn.

[Varmintmist]

And it just cost Trump 40 delegates."

So then in the states Trump won, it cost Cruz the delegates by your logic?

Sorry, but Trump has never polled well in the west because he is a northeastern liberal, and so far, except for the marianas islands he hasnt EVER gotten to 50% in any primary. Cruz has. A 70+ percent isnt out of line now that we are down to 2 strong candidates and a spoiler.

Is the caucus system messed up? Yep. It is messed up in every state so in reality, everyone races on the same track.

[98valk]

And it just cost Trump 40 delegates."

So then in the states Trump won, it cost Cruz the delegates by your logic?

Sorry, but Trump has never polled well in the west because he is a northeastern liberal, and so far, except for the marianas islands he hasnt EVER gotten to 50% in any primary. Cruz has. A 70+ percent isnt out of line now that we are down to 2 strong candidates and a spoiler.

Is the caucus system messed up? Yep. It is messed up in every state so in reality, everyone races on the same track.

not my logic or opinion, reason I put all of that in quotes, it is from the link, which was on drudge.
the main theme was the corruption of the voting which is going on, but some pick up on a comment.
who was upset that the hildemon won a couple states on a coin toss? Really?, Really?!

[Crackerborn]

I never claimed to be the smartest one in the family (baby sis has the Doctorate in Mathematics), but the Trumkins claim to overpowering wins has me a bit confused. The only state that The Donald approaches the 50% mark is Massachusetts where he received 49.3% of the vote. (What’s up with that Baldo?)  If you average the 21 states King Wanna-Be Trumpkin has won, he has an average of 40% of the vote. I will check with my little sis, however, I am pretty sure that is not a majority of the votes. To me that means that 60% of the vote went to other candidates or to put it another way, the majority of voters did not choose Donnie-Boy. Please feel free to check out the election results on your own. I found this site the easiest to read results from: http://www.politico.com/2016-election/results/map/president.

So unless The Donald reaches the magic number of delegates before the Republican Convention, why should there not be an open convention?

[art]

What a shame,our election process being treated just like a third world country.

[baldo]

I never claimed to be the smartest one in the family (baby sis has the Doctorate in Mathematics), but the Trumkins claim to overpowering wins has me a bit confused. The only state that The Donald approaches the 50% mark is Massachusetts where he received 49.3% of the vote. (What’s up with that Baldo?)  If you average the 21 states King Wanna-Be Trumpkin has won, he has an average of 40% of the vote. I will check with my little sis, however, I am pretty sure that is not a majority of the votes. To me that means that 60% of the vote went to other candidates or to put it another way, the majority of voters did not choose Donnie-Boy. Please feel free to check out the election results on your own. I found this site the easiest to read results from: http://www.politico.com/2016-election/results/map/president.

So unless The Donald reaches the magic number of delegates before the Republican Convention, why should there not be an open convention?

Cracker, that's a damn good question. One of the most liberal states in the country, and the Trumpster gets 50% of the votes. That dog just don't hunt. I suspect some skullduggery is afoot.

[dinosnake]

I never claimed to be the smartest one in the family (baby sis has the Doctorate in Mathematics), but the Trumkins claim to overpowering wins has me a bit confused. The only state that The Donald approaches the 50% mark is Massachusetts where he received 49.3% of the vote. (What’s up with that Baldo?)  If you average the 21 states King Wanna-Be Trumpkin has won, he has an average of 40% of the vote. I will check with my little sis, however, I am pretty sure that is not a majority of the votes. To me that means that 60% of the vote went to other candidates or to put it another way, the majority of voters did not choose Donnie-Boy. Please feel free to check out the election results on your own. I found this site the easiest to read results from: http://www.politico.com/2016-election/results/map/president.

So unless The Donald reaches the magic number of delegates before the Republican Convention, why should there not be an open convention?

Cracker, that's a damn good question. One of the most liberal states in the country, and the Trumpster gets 50% of the votes. That dog just don't hunt. I suspect some skullduggery is afoot.

In what way?

[Crackerborn]

What a shame,our election process being treated just like a third world country.

Actually, Honest Abe was chosen as a result of an open convention. Primaries as you now know them have only been around for the last century. Before that caucuses were held to select delegates to the national convention. The delegates chose the candidate for the party, the individual voter had no say in the selection process.

[Gavin_Sons]

Ok, say Trump gets 50% of a state. The other 2 candidates get 30% and 20%. Did Trump not get the majority? He got the most percentage out of the 3. Yes 50% of the people don't want him but those 50% are split between 2 other candidates. If I remember correctly 70% of America did not want Obummer for a 2nd term, but we got it anyway.

[FLAVALK]

What a shame,our election process being treated just like a third world country.

My thought exactly and our politicians, for the most part, are a criminals and liars.

[Crackerborn]

Ok, say Trump gets 50% of a state. The other 2 candidates get 30% and 20%. Did Trump not get the majority? He got the most percentage out of the 3. Yes 50% of the people don't want him but those 50% are split between 2 other candidates. If I remember correctly 70% of America did not want Obummer for a 2nd term, but we got it anyway.

100% would be a total for all candidates. 50% would not be a majority, that would be a tie, 50% plus 1 would be a majority. In the political world, the most votes in a state garners the most delegates, irregardless of the actual percentages. So Trumpy currently has the most delegates that must vote for him on the first ballot. Now that Teddy and the spoiler are the only two candidates left, we shall see if any of the percentages change in the remaining state primaries. The Talking Heads are projecting that The Donald would need a 60% win in most of the remaining states (the ones that are not winner take all the delegate states) to reach the the magic number (1,236) of delegates to lock up the nomination. 1,235 is not a guarantee of a win, especially in the current political climate that The Donald is partially responsible for creating.

As far as the last presidential election, as much as it pains me to admit, Obama received 332 electoral votes with 62,611,250 popular votes while Romney had 206 electoral votes and 59,134,475 popular votes. That is the reason Conservatives MUST put forward a candidate that can win this cycle so the Free Sh!t Army can be stopped. Also note I specify conservative not a party. I have had to hold my nose and vote for quite some time now but I will continue to check the boxes of candidates that I believe will actually work for the taxpayer rather than themselves.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Ok, say Trump gets 50% of a state. The other 2 candidates get 30% and 20%. Did Trump not get the majority? He got the most percentage out of the 3. Yes 50% of the people don't want him but those 50% are split between 2 other candidates. If I remember correctly 70% of America did not want Obummer for a 2nd term, but we got it anyway.

100% would be a total for all candidates. 50% would not be a majority, that would be a tie, 50% plus 1 would be a majority. In the political world, the most votes in a state garners the most delegates, irregardless of the actual percentages. So Trumpy currently has the most delegates that must vote for him on the first ballot. Now that Teddy and the spoiler are the only two candidates left, we shall see if any of the percentages change in the remaining state primaries. The Talking Heads are projecting that The Donald would need a 60% win in most of the remaining states (the ones that are not winner take all the delegate states) to reach the the magic number (1,236) of delegates to lock up the nomination. 1,235 is not a guarantee of a win, especially in the current political climate that The Donald is partially responsible for creating.

As far as the last presidential election, as much as it pains me to admit, Obama received 332 electoral votes with 62,611,250 popular votes while Romney had 206 electoral votes and 59,134,475 popular votes. That is the reason Conservatives MUST put forward a candidate that can win this cycle so the Free Sh!t Army can be stopped. Also note I specify conservative not a party. I have had to hold my nose and vote for quite some time now but I will continue to check the boxes of candidates that I believe will actually work for the taxpayer rather than themselves.

Nice post Crackerborn  We probably have different political outlooks. But I sure appreciate your well thought out and ACCURATE facts put forth. As far as the "spoiler" is concerned. He is probably the only real hope of beating Clinton. But alas primary voters turn up their nose at him because of his Medicaid stance in Ohio. But yet those same voters disregard all of the Donald's stances.

[Crackerborn]

What a shame,our election process being treated just like a third world country.

My thought exactly and our politicians, for the most part, are a criminals and liars.

You have the right to gather with others of like mind and organize an opposition to the corrupt politicians. If one can provide proof of a crime by a politician, they will be indited the same as an individual citizen. Liars are a dime a dozen, so good luck with that. In FL you have a Sunshine Law that prevents any government (state or local) business taking place off the public record unlike most states where closed meetings and deals are frequent. The system ain't perfect but I for one think some of the alternatives (like socialism) would be worse.

[Crackerborn]

As far as the "spoiler" is concerned. He is probably the only real hope of beating Clinton. But alas primary voters turn up their nose at him because of his Medicaid stance in Ohio. But yet those same voters disregard all of the Donald's stances.

I actually agree that Kasich may be the only adult in the room and despite his moderate political stance would be a fine candidate under a normal election cycle. Sadly, I believe at this point, a vote for Kasich would be a vote for The Donald. And a Donnie nomination is handing the opposition a win that this country may not recover from.

Look out Greece, we can make your financial collapse look petty.

[The emperor has no clothes]

As far as the "spoiler" is concerned. He is probably the only real hope of beating Clinton. But alas primary voters turn up their nose at him because of his Medicaid stance in Ohio. But yet those same voters disregard all of the Donald's stances.

I actually agree that Kasich may be the only adult in the room and despite his moderate political stance would be a fine candidate under a normal election cycle. Sadly, I believe at this point, a vote for Kasich would be a vote for The Donald. And a Donnie nomination is handing the opposition a win that this country may not recover from.

Look out Greece, we can make your financial collapse look petty.

You are probably right. But there is another strain of thought that Kasich can win some states, Cruz can win some states. Thereby denying Trump the needed 1237. If so who knows what happens then. I'm not giving up on Kasich yet, but I do hear the fat lady warming up. 

[J.Mencalice]

As far as the "spoiler" is concerned. He is probably the only real hope of beating Clinton. But alas primary voters turn up their nose at him because of his Medicaid stance in Ohio. But yet those same voters disregard all of the Donald's stances.

I actually agree that Kasich may be the only adult in the room and despite his moderate political stance would be a fine candidate under a normal election cycle. Sadly, I believe at this point, a vote for Kasich would be a vote for The Donald. And a Donnie nomination is handing the opposition a win that this country may not recover from.

Look out Greece, we can make your financial collapse look petty.

You are probably right. But there is another strain of thought that Kasich can win some states, Cruz can win some states. Thereby denying Trump the needed 1237. If so who knows what happens then. I'm not giving up on Kasich yet, but I do hear the fat lady warming up. 

It's gonna be a Romney/Kasich ticket by the third ballot at the RNC in Cleveland.

[The emperor has no clothes]

They've got no stomach for any more Romney. He may still want it but they don't want him.

[Oss]

ya know

its possible for a person who has not run to win the nomination

1st you are nominated, seconded then decide to accept

So it could be the 2 time loser Romney at the R  Nat Conv.

But I sure hope not

I said Trump Kasich a while back, still sticking with it

[Varmintmist]

You are probably right. But there is another strain of thought that Kasich can win some states, Cruz can win some states. Thereby denying Trump the needed 1237. If so who knows what happens then. I'm not giving up on Kasich yet, but I do hear the fat lady warming up. 

Trump will have a hard time getting to 1237 because he only pulls 40ish%, as would Cruz who is behind in the tally, but not blown out if he can pull the voters from the guys who quit, but there is no way that Kasich has any possible hope.

If no one gets the number, then it goes to a brokered convention. Not the first one, and probably not the last one.

[J.Mencalice]

They've got no stomach for any more Romney. He may still want it but they don't want him.

If it goes to a brokered convention, "the money" will want him and what the money wants, the money gets. 

IF that happens and Mitt's on, picture this (but God help us):

Donald Drumpf forms a third party...Let's say he calls it the N.A.Z.I Party (Naturally All Zeros Instead) and carries on his regressive campaign from there; being of German DNA he embraces his heritage and rallies onward with his followers against the mainstream politicians in the democratic and republican parties.
His new t-shirt:"Make America White Again-Bring Back the Camps"
His campaign song: "The Krystallnacht Waltz"
Couldn't happen? Happened in 1933

"Freedom of Choice"-Devo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVGINIsLnqU&list=RDdVGINIsLnqU

Seriously  ?  Not for a minute.

[Serk]

They've got no stomach for any more Romney. He may still want it but they don't want him.

If it goes to a brokered convention, "the money" will want him and what the money wants, the money gets. 

IF that happens and Mitt's on, picture this (but God help us):

Donald Drumpf forms a third party...Let's say he calls it the N.A.Z.I Party (Naturally All Zeros Instead) and carries on his regressive campaign from there; being of German DNA he embraces his heritage and rallies onward with his followers against the mainstream politicians in the democratic and republican parties.
His new t-shirt:"Make America White Again-Bring Back the Camps"
His campaign song: "The Krystallnacht Waltz"
Couldn't happen? Happened in 1933

"Freedom of Choice"-Devo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVGINIsLnqU&list=RDdVGINIsLnqU

Seriously  ?  Not for a minute.

Wow...

The irony of your comments...

If either "side" is emulating Nazi tactics from the 1930's, it's the leftists who are sending goon squads out to shut down his speech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9mPo6goz-8

[Willow]

They've got no stomach for any more Romney. He may still want it but they don't want him.

If it goes to a brokered convention, "the money" will want him and what the money wants, the money gets. 

IF that happens and Mitt's on, picture this (but God help us):

Donald Drumpf forms a third party...Let's say he calls it the N.A.Z.I Party (Naturally All Zeros Instead) and carries on his regressive campaign from there; being of German DNA he embraces his heritage and rallies onward with his followers against the mainstream politicians in the democratic and republican parties.
His new t-shirt:"Make America White Again-Bring Back the Camps"
His campaign song: "The Krystallnacht Waltz"
Couldn't happen? Happened in 1933

"Freedom of Choice"-Devo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVGINIsLnqU&list=RDdVGINIsLnqU

Seriously  ?  Not for a minute.

Willowpad357, were you able to read through your response and not realize that employs so much of what you seem to disapprove of?

I don't think Donald Trump is the best thing that could happen to the American political world but I've studied enough of history to recognize that neither the person nor the situation is what existed in Germany at Hitler's rise to power.  I have not heard of Donald Trump say anything that remotely resembled "make America white again" nor anything that sounded like he was for putting Americans in camps.  Bring back the camps?  What does that mean?

I know that myself and a lot of others that ride Valkyries certainly have German DNA.  Is that a problem for you?  Does it make sense to you that in accusing someone else of being racially or ethnically prejudiced you would display exactly the same flaw in yourself?

I'm going to take a few minutes and see if you don't piss me off as much as you do.  Further communication from me on the subject would clearly violate the "Rules of the Road".        

  

[baldo]

They've got no stomach for any more Romney. He may still want it but they don't want him.

If it goes to a brokered convention, "the money" will want him and what the money wants, the money gets. 

IF that happens and Mitt's on, picture this (but God help us):

Donald Drumpf forms a third party...Let's say he calls it the N.A.Z.I Party (Naturally All Zeros Instead) and carries on his regressive campaign from there; being of German DNA he embraces his heritage and rallies onward with his followers against the mainstream politicians in the democratic and republican parties.
His new t-shirt:"Make America White Again-Bring Back the Camps"
His campaign song: "The Krystallnacht Waltz"
Couldn't happen? Happened in 1933

"Freedom of Choice"-Devo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVGINIsLnqU&list=RDdVGINIsLnqU

Seriously  ?  Not for a minute.

Wow...

The irony of your comments...

If either "side" is emulating Nazi tactics from the 1930's, it's the leftists who are sending goon squads out to shut down his speech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9mPo6goz-8

I couldn't take more than :48 of that crap.

[Gavin_Sons]

You can't take the truth,  or you refuse to admit the truth?

[Crackerborn]

I couldn't take more than :48 of that crap.

Funny, I feel the same way when Chris Matthews or Rachel Maddow start blathering.   

[Jess from VA]

I couldn't take more than :48 of that crap.

Funny, I feel the same way when Chris Matthews or Rachel Maddow start blathering.   

Bingo.    Good dry fire practice... with the sound off.