obamacare-failures-that-have-hurt-americans

[98valk]

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/7-obamacare-failures-that-have-hurt-americans-2016-03-24

 3. Lost doctors. In a presidential weekly address on July 18, 2009, President Obama said: “Michelle and I don’t want anyone telling us who our family’s doctor should be — and no one should decide that for you either. Under our proposals, if you like your doctor, you keep your doctor.”

Various sources note that a common (and popular) way to reduce premium costs has been to reduce the number of doctors in the insurer’s network, which leads to a much greater likelihood of people losing their doctors than without the ACA.

Initially the ACA required only 20% of “essential community providers” to be included in networks, but the number went up to 30% after there was a backlash from hospitals. According to a NIH study, 15% of plans offered on the exchanges exclude doctors from at least one kind of specialty.

4. Lost plans. Speaking in the Rose Garden, on July 21, 2009, President Obama said: “If you like your current plan, you will be able to keep it. Let me repeat that: If you like your plan, you’ll be able to keep it.” But it wasn’t true. Many plans disappeared because they did not comply with the ACA regulations.

Sen. Ben Sasse, a Republican from Nebraska, recently released a report about Obamacare’s effects on competition among insurers, concluding that outcomes have worsened for most Americans, in terms of choice of insurers and plans. Over the past year, the number of insurers offering plans in exchanges has dropped by nearly 6%.

Many states have lost more than 80% of their insurers: Alabama went from 23 to 3, Arkansas went from 24 to 4, and Wyoming from 21 to 1, just to name a few. Only New York did not lose over half of its insurers, going from 28 to 15 insurers, a 46% decline.

5. Higher premiums. President Obama claimed that the Affordable Care Act would reduce annual insurance premiums by $2,500 for a typical family. Yet a report by the Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research & Educational Trust found that, since 2008, average employer family premiums have climbed a total of $4,865. From 2015 to 2016 the most popular exchange family plan, Family Silver, saw a 10% average increase in its premiums. In some states, premiums rose by nearly 40%.

In 2015 the average annual family premium was $17,545 per year, and the average premium for a single policy was $6,251. Young men were particularly hard-hit. Average premiums rose by 49% from 2013 to 2014, the year Obamacare was supposed to go into effect.

6. Higher deductibles. Practically no one forecast that even after spending additional thousands of dollars a year for health insurance, families would have to spend thousands of dollars more on medical care before being able to take advantage of insurance for more than annual check-ups. Many people get sticker shock. The New York Times, long a cheerleader for Obamacare, reported that many people can’t afford to use the health insurance that they have purchased because of the deductibles.

New York Times reporter Robert Pear wrote that the median deductible in Miami was $5,000 in 2015. It was $5,500 in Jackson, Miss., and $4,000 in Phoenix. One Chicago family of four paid $1,200 monthly for coverage yet had an annual deductible of $12,700.

7. High costs. The Office of the Actuary of the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services has projected that Obamacare will result in an additional $274 billion in administrative costs alone over the period of 2014 through 2022.

Legislative options that would repeal and replace Obamacare, such as the Restoring Americans’ Healthcare Freedom Reconciliation Act — passed on Jan. 6, 2016, and vetoed by President Obama on Jan. 8, 2016 — are projected to save taxpayers even more: $474 billion over the 2016-2025 period, the Congressional Budget Office notes.

Many members of Congress voted for Obamacare to help the American public and put America’s health-care system on a sounder foundation. For most Americans, the opposite has happened. Health-care expenses for many individuals and families are higher, their insurance costs are higher, their choice of doctors and insurance is diminished, and the total costs of the program are burdening a weak economy. Had members of Congress known then what they know now, they would never have passed Obamacare.

[old2soon]

pelousy said we hafta pass it to know what's in it!  And I duz remember the obuminater standin there bold as brass and LYING about aca. BUT to be fair-he did promise change-he never said I believe whether that change would be good or bad-course NOW we the people KNOW how much of a boondoggle this is has been will be!  RIDE SAFE.

[..]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoV0NeHNklk&ebc=ANyPxKoATDzj1AW_UrR7Ld4IC0osxYoP0pICVRgJDiTBvsj4p4hVhhF8digEc9pc27dX-eExXlmcorP2mirvBLXH6NXsCtejFw

He's a liar. Anyone with an ounce of moral fibre knows he's a liar. He's been a liar since he campaigned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UErR7i2onW0

Those that don't care, don't care. They are the ones who showed their willing ignorance by voting for him twice.

They are the ones who show their morals and values by their willingness to suck up the spewing lies.

They are the same people who don't care that Clinton is a liar.

They are disgusting in their acceptance of the lies.

[The emperor has no clothes]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoV0NeHNklk&ebc=ANyPxKoATDzj1AW_UrR7Ld4IC0osxYoP0pICVRgJDiTBvsj4p4hVhhF8digEc9pc27dX-eExXlmcorP2mirvBLXH6NXsCtejFw

He's a liar. Anyone with an ounce of moral fibre knows he's a liar. He's been a liar since he campaigned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UErR7i2onW0

Those that don't care, don't care. They are the ones who showed their willing ignorance by voting for him twice.

They are the ones who show their morals and values by their willingness to suck up the spewing lies.

They are the same people who don't care that Clinton is a liar.

They are disgusting in their acceptance of the lies.

There are disgusting things and people all around us. Just have to look a little. 

[baldo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoV0NeHNklk&ebc=ANyPxKoATDzj1AW_UrR7Ld4IC0osxYoP0pICVRgJDiTBvsj4p4hVhhF8digEc9pc27dX-eExXlmcorP2mirvBLXH6NXsCtejFw

He's a liar. Anyone with an ounce of moral fibre knows he's a liar. He's been a liar since he campaigned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UErR7i2onW0

Those that don't care, don't care. They are the ones who showed their willing ignorance by voting for him twice.

They are the ones who show their morals and values by their willingness to suck up the spewing lies.

They are the same people who don't care that Clinton is a liar.

They are disgusting in their acceptance of the lies.

Funny.

Except for the mention of Clinton, you could be talking about Bush. The only difference is those 4400+ lost lives.

Funny.

[Robert]

Interesting when you hear the manipulation that had to happen to pass o care


http://www.briansussman.com/politics/how-obamacare-became-law/

The Senate at that time had 60 Democrats, just enough to pass Obamacare.  However after the bill passed the Senate, Democrat Senator Ted Kennedy died.  In his place, Massachusetts elected Republican Scott Brown.  That meant that if the House made any changes to the bill the Senate wouldn’t have the necessary number of votes to pass the amended bill (because they knew no Republicans would vote for Obamacare).  So Senate Leader Harry Reid cut a deal with Pelosi: the House would pass the Senate bill without any changes if the Senate agreed to pass a separate bill by the House that made changes to the Senate version of Obamacare.  This second bill was called the Reconciliation Act of 2010. So the House passed PPACA, the Senate bill, as well as their Reconciliation Act. At this point PPACA was ready for the President to sign, but the Senate still needed to pass the Reconciliation Act from the House.

Confused?

We all were.

And it got worse.

Remember that the Senate only had 59 votes to pass the Reconciliation Act since Republican Scott Brown replaced Democrat Ted Kennedy.  Therefore in order to pass the Act Senate Democrats decided to change the rules.  They declared that they could use the “Reconciliation Rule (this is a different “reconciliation” than the House bill).  This rule was only supposed to be used for budget item approvals so that such items could be passed with only 51 votes in the Senate, not the usual 60.  Reconciliation was never intended to be used for legislation of the magnitude of Obamacare. But that didn’t stop them.

So both of the “Acts” were able to pass both houses of Congress and sent to President Obama for his signature without a single Republican vote in favor of the legislation.  The American system of governance was shafted.  To quote Democrat Rep. Alcee Hastings of the House Rules Committee during the bill process: “We’re making up the rules as we go along.”

[baldo]

Interesting when you hear the manipulation that had to happen to pass o care


http://www.briansussman.com/politics/how-obamacare-became-law/

The Senate at that time had 60 Democrats, just enough to pass Obamacare.  However after the bill passed the Senate, Democrat Senator Ted Kennedy died.  In his place, Massachusetts elected Republican Scott Brown.  That meant that if the House made any changes to the bill the Senate wouldn’t have the necessary number of votes to pass the amended bill (because they knew no Republicans would vote for Obamacare).  So Senate Leader Harry Reid cut a deal with Pelosi: the House would pass the Senate bill without any changes if the Senate agreed to pass a separate bill by the House that made changes to the Senate version of Obamacare.  This second bill was called the Reconciliation Act of 2010. So the House passed PPACA, the Senate bill, as well as their Reconciliation Act. At this point PPACA was ready for the President to sign, but the Senate still needed to pass the Reconciliation Act from the House.

Confused?

We all were.

And it got worse.

Remember that the Senate only had 59 votes to pass the Reconciliation Act since Republican Scott Brown replaced Democrat Ted Kennedy.  Therefore in order to pass the Act Senate Democrats decided to change the rules.  They declared that they could use the “Reconciliation Rule (this is a different “reconciliation” than the House bill).  This rule was only supposed to be used for budget item approvals so that such items could be passed with only 51 votes in the Senate, not the usual 60.  Reconciliation was never intended to be used for legislation of the magnitude of Obamacare. But that didn’t stop them.

So both of the “Acts” were able to pass both houses of Congress and sent to President Obama for his signature without a single Republican vote in favor of the legislation.  The American system of governance was shafted.  To quote Democrat Rep. Alcee Hastings of the House Rules Committee during the bill process: “We’re making up the rules as we go along.”

I question the accuracy of his statements.  Reading the comments, someone made a good point.



"Two points:

1) Ted Kennedy died on August 25, 2009 – almost exactly four months to the day before the Senate passed the PPACA. Even Democrats have not yet managed to get help in a key Senate vote from a dead man.

2) Sussman does even attempt to explain how the HCERA fails to satisfy the constraints on reconciliation bills. It shouldn’t be difficult – the rules aren’t complicated.

Budget reconciliation cannnot be used if a bill
1. does not produce a change in outlays or revenues;
2. produces an outlay increase or revenue decrease when the instructed committee is not in compliance with its instructions;
3. is outside the jurisdiction of the committee that submitted the title or provision for inclusion in the reconciliation measure;
4. produces a change in outlays or revenues which is merely incidental to the non-budgetary components of the provision;
5. would increase the deficit for a fiscal year beyond those covered by the reconciliation measure; and
6. would make changes in Social Security.

Here is the text of the HCERA: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-111publ152/pdf/PLAW-111publ152.pdf

Why was it not eligible for passage by budget reconciliation?"

It's been a while since this all took place, so my recollection of events is hazy at best. And I don't have the time or energy to research this all over again.

I don't know much about Sussman, I don't travel in those circles. But someone that is compared to the likes of Levin and Savage has my spidey senses tingling. And I don't mean up my leg....

[..]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoV0NeHNklk&ebc=ANyPxKoATDzj1AW_UrR7Ld4IC0osxYoP0pICVRgJDiTBvsj4p4hVhhF8digEc9pc27dX-eExXlmcorP2mirvBLXH6NXsCtejFw

He's a liar. Anyone with an ounce of moral fibre knows he's a liar. He's been a liar since he campaigned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UErR7i2onW0

Those that don't care, don't care. They are the ones who showed their willing ignorance by voting for him twice.

They are the ones who show their morals and values by their willingness to suck up the spewing lies.

They are the same people who don't care that Clinton is a liar.

They are disgusting in their acceptance of the lies.

Funny.

Except for the mention of Clinton, you could be talking about Bush. The only difference is those 4400+ lost lives.

Funny.

What are you claiming/hinting/stating at with the words 4400+ lost lives?

Why do you seem to talk in little riddles in some of your posts on this forum?

Your superior knowledge shining through?

A typical Dem/Lib/Prog method to make oneself seem wiser than the mere mortals they are communicating with.

[..]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoV0NeHNklk&ebc=ANyPxKoATDzj1AW_UrR7Ld4IC0osxYoP0pICVRgJDiTBvsj4p4hVhhF8digEc9pc27dX-eExXlmcorP2mirvBLXH6NXsCtejFw

He's a liar. Anyone with an ounce of moral fibre knows he's a liar. He's been a liar since he campaigned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UErR7i2onW0

Those that don't care, don't care. They are the ones who showed their willing ignorance by voting for him twice.

They are the ones who show their morals and values by their willingness to suck up the spewing lies.

They are the same people who don't care that Clinton is a liar.

They are disgusting in their acceptance of the lies.

Funny.

Except for the mention of Clinton, you could be talking about Bush. The only difference is those 4400+ lost lives.

Funny.

You do know that Bush is no longer President and hasn't been for a few years?

A typical Dem/Lib/Prog method to try to distract.

[Serk]

Except for the mention of Clinton, you could be talking about Bush. The only difference is those 4400+ lost lives.

Funny.

Maybe they were talking about Clinton, seeing as she voted in favor of that adventure that cost 4400+ lives.

Not Funny.

[..]

Except for the mention of Clinton, you could be talking about Bush. The only difference is those 4400+ lost lives.

Funny.

Maybe they were talking about Clinton, seeing as she voted in favor of that adventure that cost 4400+ lives.

Oh no not the facts.

They done need no steenkin facts.

A typical Dem/Lib/Prog method to distort history to suit.

[The emperor has no clothes]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoV0NeHNklk&ebc=ANyPxKoATDzj1AW_UrR7Ld4IC0osxYoP0pICVRgJDiTBvsj4p4hVhhF8digEc9pc27dX-eExXlmcorP2mirvBLXH6NXsCtejFw

He's a liar. Anyone with an ounce of moral fibre knows he's a liar. He's been a liar since he campaigned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UErR7i2onW0

Those that don't care, don't care. They are the ones who showed their willing ignorance by voting for him twice.

They are the ones who show their morals and values by their willingness to suck up the spewing lies.

They are the same people who don't care that Clinton is a liar.

They are disgusting in their acceptance of the lies.

Funny.

Except for the mention of Clinton, you could be talking about Bush. The only difference is those 4400+ lost lives.

Funny.

What are you claiming/hinting/stating at with the words 4400+ lost lives?

Why do you seem to talk in little riddles in some of your posts on this forum?

Your superior knowledge shining through?

A typical Dem/Lib/Prog method to make oneself seem wiser than the mere mortals they are communicating with.

It might be something subconscious on your part ? 

[RudyF6]

Funny how "bummercare" puts insurance plans at the heart of the problem. (Not that they aren't a large problem in themselves!) I just had my annual physical last week. No charge to me, 'cuz bummer sez that's how it has to be, but for the 30 minutes spent with the doctor my plan was billed $608 for "hospital services" and $349 for "professional services". WTF is justifiable about that? I mean I had to undress, but I got no "happy ending"..... I sure hope somebody did!!

[baldo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoV0NeHNklk&ebc=ANyPxKoATDzj1AW_UrR7Ld4IC0osxYoP0pICVRgJDiTBvsj4p4hVhhF8digEc9pc27dX-eExXlmcorP2mirvBLXH6NXsCtejFw

He's a liar. Anyone with an ounce of moral fibre knows he's a liar. He's been a liar since he campaigned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UErR7i2onW0

Those that don't care, don't care. They are the ones who showed their willing ignorance by voting for him twice.

They are the ones who show their morals and values by their willingness to suck up the spewing lies.

They are the same people who don't care that Clinton is a liar.

They are disgusting in their acceptance of the lies.

Funny.

Except for the mention of Clinton, you could be talking about Bush. The only difference is those 4400+ lost lives.

Funny.

What are you claiming/hinting/stating at with the words 4400+ lost lives?

Why do you seem to talk in little riddles in some of your posts on this forum?

Your superior knowledge shining through?

A typical Dem/Lib/Prog method to make oneself seem wiser than the mere mortals they are communicating with.

Talking in riddles??? What are you talking about? I try to be as clear as possible with my posts, just so there's no mistake on what I'm trying to say. If you're having trouble keeping up....

And you can forget about 'superior knowledge'. I can tell you for sure that's NOT the case. There are more than a few members of this forum that have shown to be extremely intelligent, with vastly more world experience than this overweight bald guy could ever hope for. It's always a pleasure to read their posts.

And where would we be without the usual liberal bashing. It's old and tired, time for some new material.

[baldo]

Funny how "bummercare" puts insurance plans at the heart of the problem. (Not that they aren't a large problem in themselves!) I just had my annual physical last week. No charge to me, 'cuz bummer sez that's how it has to be, but for the 30 minutes spent with the doctor my plan was billed $608 for "hospital services" and $349 for "professional services". WTF is justifiable about that? I mean I had to undress, but I got no "happy ending"..... I sure hope somebody did!!

So how is this the fault of Obama? Are you complaining that you get a free physical every year? Or that the the doctor/hospital charges high fees?

[..]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoV0NeHNklk&ebc=ANyPxKoATDzj1AW_UrR7Ld4IC0osxYoP0pICVRgJDiTBvsj4p4hVhhF8digEc9pc27dX-eExXlmcorP2mirvBLXH6NXsCtejFw

He's a liar. Anyone with an ounce of moral fibre knows he's a liar. He's been a liar since he campaigned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UErR7i2onW0

Those that don't care, don't care. They are the ones who showed their willing ignorance by voting for him twice.

They are the ones who show their morals and values by their willingness to suck up the spewing lies.

They are the same people who don't care that Clinton is a liar.

They are disgusting in their acceptance of the lies.

Funny.

Except for the mention of Clinton, you could be talking about Bush. The only difference is those 4400+ lost lives.

Funny.

What are you claiming/hinting/stating at with the words 4400+ lost lives?

Why do you seem to talk in little riddles in some of your posts on this forum?

Your superior knowledge shining through?

A typical Dem/Lib/Prog method to make oneself seem wiser than the mere mortals they are communicating with.

Talking in riddles??? What are you talking about? I try to be as clear as possible with my posts, just so there's no mistake on what I'm trying to say. If you're having trouble keeping up....

And you can forget about 'superior knowledge'. I can tell you for sure that's NOT the case. There are more than a few members of this forum that have shown to be extremely intelligent, with vastly more world experience than this overweight bald guy could ever hope for. It's always a pleasure to read their posts.

And where would we be without the usual liberal bashing. It's old and tired, time for some new material.

One of the main Right bashers on this forum calling the kettle black.

Makes me laugh. Thanks for that.

Anyway, what do you mean by the 4400+ lives. Be brave, state it.

[RudyF6]

So how is this the fault of Obama? Are you complaining that you get a free physical every year? Or that the the doctor/hospital charges high fees?

Both! I would much rather pay a copay or deductible against a reasonable fee than to have it mandated to be an included freebie (along with paying for other mandated coverages I don't need).

I used to pay my own medical bills and kept only a "catastrophic" policy in case of a major event. My physicals cost $125-$150 plus $50 or so for labs before ACA.

Can't afford self-pay and can't buy cheap coverage anymore.

[Pappy!]

Funny how "bummercare" puts insurance plans at the heart of the problem. (Not that they aren't a large problem in themselves!) I just had my annual physical last week. No charge to me, 'cuz bummer sez that's how it has to be, but for the 30 minutes spent with the doctor my plan was billed $608 for "hospital services" and $349 for "professional services". WTF is justifiable about that? I mean I had to undress, but I got no "happy ending"..... I sure hope somebody did!!

So how is this the fault of Obama? Are you complaining that you get a free physical every year? Or that the the doctor/hospital charges high fees?

Remember the closed door meetings between O'idiot, the architects of the ACA, and the insurance companies?
The Gov. pays those bills directly to the insurance companies.....who absolutely loves it.
We supply that money to the Gov. ..... or at least those of us who work.

[Patrick]

OH, there were some that predicted or foresaw that the premiums and deductibles would skyrocket.
Some figured that was a given. Look at who did this, doesn't take an Einstein.
Want to keep this up ? Just vote for hillary. Want it to get worse ? Vote for bernie.

[John Schmidt]

Baldo, I got a chuckle from your self-deprecating comment about "balding/overweight."  We have something in common....except I'm not balding. Thinning a bit, yes....but who likes fat hair?  

Re. the unAffordable Care Act, it has been a disappointment from the get-go....both service wise and financial wise(yeah I know....poor english). In both respects it has proven to be one of the biggest boondogles (sp?) in U.S. history yet it's difficult, if not impossible, to find any original supporters that will admit it. Four years ago I had a major heart attack that I wasn't expected to survive. In the hospital for five weeks, followed with home care and phys. therapy for another three months. The bills kept going up and up and up, and I was scared to the point of wondering if the stress of what was to come would finally do what the first attack didn't. I kept hearing/reading about all the horror stories of financial ruin under O-care related to such events. My health insurance is Medicare first, and AvMed secondary, the latter being the same insurance I had before retiring from the State of Fla. employment. It's not cheap, costing us ~$285 ea. plus the Medicare premium, but it also covers our prescriptions better than the Part D.  As for the bills wracked up from the heart attack, when all was in they totaled well over $1.5 mil. My cost: ZERO!  I have looked around a bit in the years that followed and can't find a single plan under O-care that would come close, regardless of the premium cost.

Quite simply, the American public was sold a bill of goods in a very underhanded method by some less than forthright legislators. Granted, both sides of the aisle have been guilty of such things over the years, but when it impacts the TOTAL population in such an overbearing manner.....this one outshines them all. And the ridiculous part.....there's still multi-millions out there without insurance, something this bill was touted as doing away with. What it boils down to is people want insurance that they can afford, that covers them without skyrocketing copays, and that covers them anywhere in the country and covers them completely as it did for them pre-Ocare. The way it is now, my secondary insurance with AvMed is only good here in Florida, yet it is one of the best on the market. If, in later years, I should have to leave the state to live with one of my children, I will have to find other insurance. That should not ever be necessary, it needs to cover across state lines in the same manner and as complete as it does here in the home state.

[Robert]

I know many that make to much money to qualify for the discount on health care. They cannot afford health care and would get a refund back on their taxes which was promptly taken for not having health care. There is no enforcable penalty but they still take the refund from people who cannot afford insurance and barely making bills. They have had medical issues that dr's first question is do you have health care no. Sorry cant help you then finding one that will help then want money up front, money they dont have that the government took that may have covered the bill.

I know also some others who own their own business and don't receive the discount and with deductions, medical expenses, and with insurance pay approximately 20k a year in medical expenses. A big part is insurance that has a 5k deductible, and then percentage and no dental which also costs on top of this expense

I also know someone who was not making much money in fact almost broke so he applied for o care. They said he didn't make enough to qualify. WTH?

Another case a family needs health care and they cannot afford it and have 2 kids that need some form of health care. So they have the husband and the kids with insurance and the wife has none. They have to try to make ends meet with finding other things to do and can barely afford the expenses now.

I know of these cases and the people and its not bs. So when you talk about O care you can shove it. Unless you work for a big company or the government health care is garbage


Yet our Congress has no problem with health care since they get theirs paid for

If the hospitals and drs gave you the discount that they give the insurance companies and then we had health savings or insurance on top of that then we would not be stealing from the US population to fund someone elses health care.

Another case a guy I Know had some surgery and the bill came out to 85k by the time deductible, insurance allowed, insurance paid, the bill was down to 6k of which the insurance paid 3 and my friend by the time it was all over had to pay 4k with insurance costing 15k a year. Facts not fiction.

I pretty much did the same as Rudyf6 and it worked well, but lucky that I kept my pre o care policy because I sure as heck would not want to pay what the O care policy would be with a 10k deductable.
I used to pay my own medical bills and kept only a "catastrophic" policy in case of a major event.

[cajunito]

"Quite simply, the American public was sold a bill of goods"
  Not often that I disagree with you, but most of us weren't sold anything. We didn't want this crap from the get-go, but it was shoved down our throats by by a bunch of pendejos who were elected to serve us.... but only serve THEMSELVES.   

[Serk]

[John Schmidt]

"Quite simply, the American public was sold a bill of goods"
  Not often that I disagree with you, but most of us weren't sold anything. We didn't want this crap from the get-go, but it was shoved down our throats by by a bunch of pendejos who were elected to serve us.... but only serve THEMSELVES.   

What you said is exactly what I meant.....probably could have worded it differently. We still don't disagree. 

[mike72903]

Get over it.  All politicans lie to advance  their agenda.  Presidents especially because it takes a HUGE ego, ambition and ruthlessness to get to that position.  Lying might be the lesser of their faults if were not for the tragic consequences to innocent lives.  Some lies are worse than others.  Iraq, Vietnam Spanish American war come to mind.

[RudyF6]

I pretty much did the same as Rudyf6 and it worked well, but lucky that I kept my pre o care policy because I sure as heck would not want to pay what the O care policy would be with a 10k deductable.
I used to pay my own medical bills and kept only a "catastrophic" policy in case of a major event.

You got to "Keep your plan"?

[Patrick]

We know we are not about to change the minds of our resident liberals. Once they do eventually figure out that they have been rogered they will do as always, they will figure out a feeble way of saying it was the republicans fault, or, better yet, Bush's fault.

[Robert]

Get over it.  All politicans lie to advance  their agenda.  Presidents especially because it takes a HUGE ego, ambition and ruthlessness to get to that position.  Lying might be the lesser of their faults if were not for the tragic consequences to innocent lives.  Some lies are worse than others.  Iraq, Vietnam Spanish American war come to mind.

Yea Ill get over it,right when you are in the front line of fire or going without, that wont make me feel better about it but it will give me some satisfaction to think that someone who sees people dying and having money sucked from them yet thinking that a big ego is justification for failing at a job is a good excuse. That is exactly why we are in the position we are in today. That is exactly what the founders warned us about. Just curious how would you get over it if it were you that was being charged 15k a year and were basically healthy trying to make ends meet? Especially when it came out that the designer of the aca knew that it was a sham.

Its not something that does not affect people it causes hardships and hurts when it does not have to be like this. Its not what this country was about. We put criminals in jail, why, because they hurt people and break the law. Well the ones in office are starting to do the same thing and it should be the same result.

[G-Man]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoV0NeHNklk&ebc=ANyPxKoATDzj1AW_UrR7Ld4IC0osxYoP0pICVRgJDiTBvsj4p4hVhhF8digEc9pc27dX-eExXlmcorP2mirvBLXH6NXsCtejFw

He's a liar. Anyone with an ounce of moral fibre knows he's a liar. He's been a liar since he campaigned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UErR7i2onW0

Those that don't care, don't care. They are the ones who showed their willing ignorance by voting for him twice.

They are the ones who show their morals and values by their willingness to suck up the spewing lies.

They are the same people who don't care that Clinton is a liar.

They are disgusting in their acceptance of the lies.

Funny.

Except for the mention of Clinton, you could be talking about Bush. The only difference is those 4400+ lost lives.

Funny.

So predictable.   

[G-Man]

Not sure why we are arguing the ACA.  We know what it is.  It is a redistribution scam.  They admitted it.  Remember the guy they applauded as a genius, then opened his mouth a couple of time, then they all denied even knowing him???

He stated it was written in such a way to make it hard to understand so they wouldn't know what they were voting for.

The whole thing was a lie.  And Obama's lies to get it through was titled The Lie Of The Decade.

Why the argument?  Do really care if those on the left will admit it out loud (or type it)?  They know it, but instead used it to say the other guy was worse.  

[mike72903]

Get over it.  All politicans lie to advance  their agenda.  Presidents especially because it takes a HUGE ego, ambition and ruthlessness to get to that position.  Lying might be the lesser of their faults if were not for the tragic consequences to innocent lives.  Some lies are worse than others.  Iraq, Vietnam Spanish American war come to mind.

Yea Ill get over it,right when you are in the front line of fire or going without, that wont make me feel better about it but it will give me some satisfaction to think that someone who sees people dying and having money sucked from them yet thinking that a big ego is justification for failing at a job is a good excuse. That is exactly why we are in the position we are in today. That is exactly what the founders warned us about.

Im not sure what your saying.  Your going to have to explain more clearly.  What line of fire are you talking about and what am I supposed to go without?  As a retired conservative Democrat (used to be Republican until they all went bat crap crazy). I've lived a useful and productive life and have the rewards to show for it.  if you think things are bad now, wait until a small group of unrestricted, unbridled, unregulated, ruthless business  magnates control power in the name of today's Republicanism.  These won't be your friendly local small business people (if any remain)but the survivors of a win at any cost ruthless competition for power.  Power that is not answerable to anyone.   Perhaps many would prefer to choke on the air they breathe, try to exist on poisoned ground and water and deal with the consequent horrors in a world of billions, than accept any restrictions by government for the common good.

[Robert]

Get over it.  All politicans lie to advance  their agenda.  Presidents especially because it takes a HUGE ego, ambition and ruthlessness to get to that position.  Lying might be the lesser of their faults if were not for the tragic consequences to innocent lives.  Some lies are worse than others.  Iraq, Vietnam Spanish American war come to mind.

Yea Ill get over it,right when you are in the front line of fire or going without, that wont make me feel better about it but it will give me some satisfaction to think that someone who sees people dying and having money sucked from them yet thinking that a big ego is justification for failing at a job is a good excuse. That is exactly why we are in the position we are in today. That is exactly what the founders warned us about.

Im not sure what your saying.  Your going to have to explain more clearly.  What line of fire are you talking about and what am I supposed to go without?  As a retired conservative Democrat (used to be Republican until they all went bat crap crazy). I've lived a useful and productive life and have the rewards to show for it.  if you think things are bad now, wait until a small group of unrestricted, unbridled, unregulated, ruthless business  magnates control power in the name of today's Republicanism.  These won't be your friendly local small business people (if any remain)but the survivors of a win at any cost ruthless competition for power.  Power that is not answerable to anyone.   Perhaps many would prefer to choke on the air they breathe, try to exist on poisoned ground and water and deal with the consequent horrors in a world of billions, than accept any restrictions by government for the common good.

I thought that that is exactly what we have now with Obama.

  We have the most closed, shielded, corrupt, Constitution violating government we have ever had. Obama has lost more court battles on his executive orders than any other president.

   I cant see how we can do much worse except with Hillary or Bernie that it was not already done.

  George Soros who backs Obama is a ruthless individual that does not care about anyone.  We indirectly already have George Soros running the government through his puppet O. He is so much worse than anyone we could elect, even worse than Hillary.  So When Trump says he wants to make America great again I can see some hope. Soros does not like the US, Trump does, so think about that when you think of business men. Think why the Movon org has enough money to do what they do.

[98valk]

http://rense.com/general93/soros.htm

1. The truth is that George Soros was a Jewish Nazi sympathizer and even said so in a 1998 60 Minutes interview.
 
Most of the versions of this interview have been scrubbed from the net by Soros but the transcript survives. Soros uses the propaganda of Media Matters (which he contributes heavily to) and useful idiots like David Goetzl to try to re-write history for this Nazi Collaborator. Demonize the messenger like Beck but Soros is a victim. Yeah right!

60 Minutes Interview with Soros: KROFT: (Voiceover) To understand the complexities and contradictions in his personality, you have to go back to the very beginning: to Budapest, where George Soros was born 68 years ago to parents who were wealthy, well-educated and Jewish.
 
When the Nazis occupied Budapest in 1944, George Soros' father was a successful lawyer. He lived on an island in the Danube and liked to commute to work in a rowboat. But knowing there were problems ahead for the Jews, he decided to split his family up. He bought them forged papers and he bribed a government official to take 14-year-old George Soros in and swear that he was his Christian godson. But survival carried a heavy price tag. While hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews were being shipped off to the death camps, George Soros accompanied his phony godfather on his appointed rounds, confiscating property from the Jews.


http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/257779/nazi-collaborator-george-soros-announces-muslims-daniel-greenfield

There's no point in talking about "new lows" when it comes to George Soros, a Nazi collaborator from a self-described anti-Semitic Jewish family, who has spent the time since the Holocaust wreaking havoc on the countries that defeated his Nazi masters while trying to also do as much damage to the Jews as possible.

Soros does most of his dirty work through a vast convoluted network of non-profits that make the Clinton Foundation look like a pawn shop next to Amazon.com. But occasionally the King Cobra crawls out of his reeking tunnels to spew some vileness.

This time the twisted financier of the War on the West took to the pages of Time Magazine to claim that the illegal alien Muslims in Burma, aka the Rohingya, are the new Jews. And the Buddhists must be the new Nazis.
 
(Vintage footage of Jews walking in line; man dragging little boy in line)
 
KROFT: (Voiceover) These are pictures from 1944 of what happened to George Soros' friends and neighbors.
 
(Vintage footage of women and men with bags over their shoulders walking; crowd by a train)
 
KROFT: (Voiceover) You're a Hungarian Jew
 
Mr. SOROS: (Voiceover) Mm-hmm.
 
KROFT: (Voiceover) who escaped the Holocaust
 
(Vintage footage of women walking by train)
 
Mr. SOROS: (Voiceover) Mm-hmm.
 
(Vintage footage of people getting on train)
 
KROFT: (Voiceover) by - by posing as a Christian.
 
Mr. SOROS: (Voiceover) Right.
 
(Vintage footage of women helping each other get on train; train door closing with people in boxcar)
 
KROFT: (Voiceover) And you watched lots of people get shipped off to the death camps.
 
Mr. SOROS: Right. I was 14 years old. And I would say that that's when my character was made.
 
KROFT: In what way?
 
Mr. SOROS: That one should think ahead. One should understand and - and anticipate events and when - when one is threatened. It was a tremendous threat of evil. I mean, it was a - a very personal experience of evil.
 
KROFT: My understanding is that you went out with this protector of yours who swore that you were his adopted godson.
 
Mr. SOROS: Yes. Yes.
 
KROFT: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.
 
Mr. SOROS: Yes. That's right. Yes.
 
KROFT: I mean, that's - that sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years. Was it difficult?
 
Mr. SOROS: Not - not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child you don't - you don't see the connection. But it was - it created no - no problem at all.
 
KROFT: No feeling of guilt?
 
Mr. SOROS: No.
 
KROFT: For example that, 'I'm Jewish and here I am, watching these people go. I could just as easily be there. I should be there.' None of that?
 
Mr. SOROS: Well, of course I c - I could be on the other side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken away. But there was no sense that I shouldn't be there, because that was - well, actually, in a funny way, it's just like in markets - that if I weren't there - of course, I wasn't doing it, but somebody else would - would - would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the - whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So the - I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt.

[Patrick]

Get over it.  All politicans lie to advance  their agenda.  Presidents especially because it takes a HUGE ego, ambition and ruthlessness to get to that position.  Lying might be the lesser of their faults if were not for the tragic consequences to innocent lives.  Some lies are worse than others.  Iraq, Vietnam Spanish American war come to mind.

Yea Ill get over it,right when you are in the front line of fire or going without, that wont make me feel better about it but it will give me some satisfaction to think that someone who sees people dying and having money sucked from them yet thinking that a big ego is justification for failing at a job is a good excuse. That is exactly why we are in the position we are in today. That is exactly what the founders warned us about.

Im not sure what your saying.  Your going to have to explain more clearly.  What line of fire are you talking about and what am I supposed to go without?  As a retired conservative Democrat (used to be Republican until they all went bat crap crazy). I've lived a useful and productive life and have the rewards to show for it.  if you think things are bad now, wait until a small group of unrestricted, unbridled, unregulated, ruthless business  magnates control power in the name of today's Republicanism.  These won't be your friendly local small business people (if any remain)but the survivors of a win at any cost ruthless competition for power.  Power that is not answerable to anyone.   Perhaps many would prefer to choke on the air they breathe, try to exist on poisoned ground and water and deal with the consequent horrors in a world of billions, than accept any restrictions by government for the common good.

The left loves to try and bring up the environment.  Who started the EPA and cleaned up our environment ?  The EPA was Nixon's baby, it was to be his legacy. That agency, like other governmental agencies, started with good intentions and good results. Its just become overgrown and out of control over time.