The world economy and why we may need Trump

[Oss]

I believe (sometimes I have trouble following threads where  part of the previous thread is in the next response) that it was Roadog who stated we cant not be part of the global economy and that had me pondering.

Now unlike my wandering pontificator friend DDT this ponderification led me to follow the economy and money and reach some unexpected (to me conclusions)  We are indeed part of the global economy and remain the one place where it seems so many on our world would like to live whether legally or illegally.  Isolation is never the answer. Which brought me to Brexit.

Now the UK deciding that it should begin steps to formally exit the european union was also unexpected by many, I believe the steep drop in the dow was deliberate and well thought out.  When the smoke clears forensic economic experts will be able to determine (like after 9-11) who profited in the billions. Whether the withdrawal is complete or not only time will tell but the people of Britain have spoken and maybe we should pay attention.  They were the canary in the mine before WWII dont forget and Churchill was a lone voice warning of a fascist danger much like its London Mayor warns of the danger of unchecked Islamic immigration and Sharia law.

But back to my ponderification as it was in this instance directed at the question as follows " Why does this or that group or interest seem so against Trump?"  When someone shows vitrol it always makes me question the reason, and this also goes for those Sanders bashers. Hillary has history going back to Arafat on my end  so I have no trouble with distrusting her whether or not her lips are moving.

Now before the recent race I was frankly NOT a Trump fan although I was a fan of how he saved Central Parks Waldman rink and his building acumen, but I have always been a proponent of free speech and saying what is on my mind.  This he does and who here does not think he has engaged his mouth without fully considering a statement he has made?

I have heard arguments that Trump will hurt our economy by making Chinese products more expensive

Pardon me, but isnt that EXACTLY what we need if we are to ever begin to salvage our manufacturing industries (steel, coal, auto, the new products that will make us energy INdependent?) There is no dispute that China is dumping at below cost products to bolster its economy.  Obama and the Democrats and the Republicans prior really did nothing, really worse than nothing  BOTH PARTIES SUCK

Yet all those politicians seem against Trump.  This leads me to the conclusion that these interests are making (gasp) money from the present arrangement and therefore they are not friends of the american people in the end

Now some say China can call the debt. Big deal, so they call the debt
Do we really believe if The govmt has no money it will really shut down, and for how long? ( I submit that the world will not end as the politicians need to be fed)
The cows will still need to be milked am and pm, the crops will still grow, the sun will still rise  We will go back to the international gold standard and a balance will again be found, hopefully without a federal reserve to screw it up yet again. And the plus is China loses a trillion or so dollars immediately! And if that happens like many other countries Trump will declare no foreigner can own our land *this is the law in mexico, switzerland and many countries* in order to stabilize the economy and shed us of foreign debt and ironically mean MORE money flows to us in the form of Tbill deposits as the sheiks cant buy land, only notes.

Now with the "wall"  If it goes up again big deal It means you have to come in thru a gate.  Remember Ellis Island?  Worked for over a hundred years. No big deal again

So I ask, without remorse, Who is making money from the status quo?  Whoever does not want change and will demonize and delegitimize those who seek to protect our country by protecting its border to the south

So even tho I see Trump as a loudmouth he is a financially astute patriot loudmouth who is not afraid to be disliked. That is the most honest trait I can look for in this election as I know where he stands.

Maybe if Johnson can get his message out he may be viable in 2020 (I would love to see a Libertarian with a solid base) but for now  I thought I would never say it last year
but
I Like Trump and will send my support his way

YMMV as its a free country (thank god so far so good)

Today I float in the pool and sip my scotch (hope it doesnt show too much in this post lol) Tomorrow I am taking the Valkyrie for a nice ride before it gets too hot, I feel the mountains calling me name

[Gavin_Sons]

 
Are you being paid by Trump?   
If not you should be, im right there with you.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Are you being paid by Trump?   
If not you should be, im right there with you.

The only one who gets paid by Trump is Trump himself. 

[BF]

The more the establishment (of both parties) is against Trump, the more I'm for Trump.   

Unless Gary Johnson can pull better than 50% of the vote, Trump has my vote. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

The more the establishment (of both parties) is against Trump, the more I'm for Trump.   

Unless Gary Johnson can pull better than 50% of the vote, Trump has my vote. 

If everybody would quit waiting for everybody else and just vote your conscience we would be a lot better off.

[Gavin_Sons]

The more the establishment (of both parties) is against Trump, the more I'm for Trump.   

Unless Gary Johnson can pull better than 50% of the vote, Trump has my vote. 

If everybody would quit waiting for everybody else and just vote your conscience we would be a lot better off.

Agreed

[BF]

The more the establishment (of both parties) is against Trump, the more I'm for Trump.   

Unless Gary Johnson can pull better than 50% of the vote, Trump has my vote. 

If everybody would quit waiting for everybody else and just vote your conscience we would be a lot better off.

The primaries are for voting your conscience.....the general election is for holding your nose when casting your vote. 

[mike72903]

 I respect your pondering but I believe you're over simplifying the economic consequences of a treasury default. If the US defaults on its debts to ANYONE its likely panic would ensue and it would likely destroy the entire world economy.  Perhaps for generations. Frankly the world economy depends on the stability and safety of the US. Government investments.   Fortunately Chinese leadership understand that and are not stupid enough to to simply dump their holdings suddenly.  They understand by doing so they would cause collapse of world markets and thus themselves.  This is a no win eventually for anyone. 65 percent Of US debt is owed to American citizens and institutions.  35 percent is held by foreign countries. China is the largest holder with 7.2 percent followed by Japan with 7.0 percent.  So, who is going to suffer the most if the government cannot pay its debts?  You and me.  Because you hold no treasuries personally won't matter.  For better or worse, for good or bad we are all, worldwide, interlocked in the need for government financial stability.  The only group I imagine would rejoice at a economic collapse would be ISIS.  Even that would be temporary as the money which finances them would soon dry up.
The farmers would have to kill there cows because the industries and infrastructures that depend on moving products would no longer exist, even if anyone had money to pay for milk.  They could not or would not grow crops for the same reasons.  A pleasant weekend drinking, floating and pleasure riding would be a thing of the past. The DOW most likely will soon recover from its Friday drop.  It was the result of investor fear of INSTABILITY. The drop caused by US default would probably be to nothing and permanent.
  Even a word by a president that debt could not be serviced would cause investors worldwide if not to panic, at least reconsider and reduce their supposedly "safe haven" investments, perhaps causing the exact situation above. One of several real reasons I won't be voting for mr. Trump.  No man is an island. No country either. Well some are but you get what I mean.

Ellis island operated for 62 years.  1892 to 1954.

[Serk]

The more the establishment (of both parties) is against Trump, the more I'm for Trump.   

Unless Gary Johnson can pull better than 50% of the vote, Trump has my vote. 

If everybody would quit waiting for everybody else and just vote your conscience we would be a lot better off.

Agreed

If I were in a swing state I'd have to hold my nose and vote for Trump just to stop Hillary from stuffing the SCOTUS and giving it a hard left turn.

Luckily, being in The Republic I can pretty safely vote for Johnson without risk, and unless something material changes between now and November most likely will do so.

Are you being paid by Trump?   
If not you should be, im right there with you.

The only one who gets paid by Trump is Trump himself. 

The ~34,000 people employed by Trump might say otherwise about that...

(Source : http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/03/news/economy/donald-trump-jobs-created/ )

[PAVALKER]

The more the establishment (of both parties) is against Trump, the more I'm for Trump.   

Unless Gary Johnson can pull better than 50% of the vote, Trump has my vote. 

If everybody would quit waiting for everybody else and just vote your conscience we would be a lot better off.

Agreed

If I were in a swing state I'd have to hold my nose and vote for Trump just to stop Hillary from stuffing the SCOTUS and giving it a hard left turn.

Luckily, being in The Republic I can pretty safely vote for Johnson without risk, and unless something material changes between now and November most likely will do so.

Are you being paid by Trump?   
If not you should be, im right there with you.

The only one who gets paid by Trump is Trump himself. 

The ~34,000 people employed by Trump might say otherwise about that...

(Source : http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/03/news/economy/donald-trump-jobs-created/ )

No way Johnson will pull anywhere near even 10% in the GE, let alone 50%.  No one really knows about him, he has not had the publicity the other two have.   

A vote for Johnson is most likely better for Hillary.  So....using your logic, just sleep in that day, save your time and fuel and forget about it.   LOL   Then when you wake up the day after and Hillary gets in.... you will know you had a significant contribution to helping her get there.

[Serk]

No way Johnson will pull anywhere near even 10% in the GE, let alone 50%.  No one really knows about him, he has not had the publicity the other two have.   

A vote for Johnson is most likely better for Hillary.  So....using your logic, just sleep in that day, save your time and fuel and forget about it.   LOL   Then when you wake up the day after and Hillary gets in.... you will know you had a significant contribution to helping her get there.

Like I said, if I were in a state that might go to Hillary I'd vote for Trump, but The Republic is gonna go for the Republican, whoever it is, so I can safely vote for Johnson without risking my vote being a "vote for Hillary"...

And the advantage is supposedly if a 3rd party gets 15% of the general election, they have to let them into the debates the next time around...

[ridingron]

A vote for Johnson is most likely better for Hillary.  So....using your logic, just sleep in that day, save your time and fuel and forget about it.   LOL   Then when you wake up the day after and Hillary gets in.... you will know you had a significant contribution to helping her get there.   

If it comes down to H and Trump, I think a vote for anyone other than Trump is a vote for H. I don't see Johnson or Bernie being a factor at the moment. Things can change between now and Nov.

[art]

I agree a vote for any one besides Trump is a vote for Hildabeast.  I'm not crazy about Trump but again the  more people trying to stop Trump have a stake in Hildabeast and the same old thing. They don't want to upset the apple cart. We need change and not obummers change. Foreign Gov. don't like Trump so he must be right for us and it's about time. No more PC and lets have the rest of the world worry about what the US is going to do instead of knowing we will do nothing. We have had almost 8 years of BS its time to stop it.

[PAVALKER]

No way Johnson will pull anywhere near even 10% in the GE, let alone 50%.  No one really knows about him, he has not had the publicity the other two have.   

A vote for Johnson is most likely better for Hillary.  So....using your logic, just sleep in that day, save your time and fuel and forget about it.   LOL   Then when you wake up the day after and Hillary gets in.... you will know you had a significant contribution to helping her get there.

Like I said, if I were in a state that might go to Hillary I'd vote for Trump, but The Republic is gonna go for the Republican, whoever it is, so I can safely vote for Johnson without risking my vote being a "vote for Hillary"...

And the advantage is supposedly if a 3rd party gets 15% of the general election, they have to let them into the debates the next time around...

How many others in The Republic are using that same thought process do you think? 

[Robert]

 

[Jess from VA]

I understand your reasoning completely Serk, but it will be a close race in any event, and if we (good guys) can win, all the after-action reporting will look better the more/higher of the popular vote we garnered.  

Headline:   Populist win for US president, details to follow.

[mike72903]

I understand your reasoning completely Serk, but it will be a close race in any event, and if we (good guys) can win, all the after-action reporting will look better the more/higher of the popular vote we garnered.  

Headline:   Populist win for US president, details to follow.

Jess, I don't believe that.  Don't think it will be close.  If Trump wins I will donate $100 in your honor to the charity of your choice including the VRCC but excluding political organizations.  No reciprocation needed or wanted.  this is not personal, you were simply the last person to respond before I posted so I'm not making any kind of bet here.  Just saying if he actually wins I'll be gob smacked. 

[Willow]

...  Just saying if he actually wins I'll be gob smacked. 

We'll hope for a good gob smacking.

I can't tell you I'll be if it goes the other way.   

What are the dependable polls saying these days?

[The emperor has no clothes]

...  Just saying if he actually wins I'll be gob smacked. 

We'll hope for a good gob smacking.

I can't tell you I'll be if it goes the other way.   

What are the dependable polls saying these days?

I think the dependable ones are saying we are screwed.

[Serk]

...  Just saying if he actually wins I'll be gob smacked. 

We'll hope for a good gob smacking.

I can't tell you I'll be if it goes the other way.   

What are the dependable polls saying these days?

I think the dependable ones are saying we are screwed.

The day before the Brexit vote all the polls I saw had a 90% probability that Brexit would NOT pass...

Just saying...

[The emperor has no clothes]

...  Just saying if he actually wins I'll be gob smacked. 

We'll hope for a good gob smacking.

I can't tell you I'll be if it goes the other way.   

What are the dependable polls saying these days?

I think the dependable ones are saying we are screwed.

The day before the Brexit vote all the polls I saw had a 90% probability that Brexit would NOT pass...

Just saying...

I know very little of the so called Brexit. I was referring to polls of Trump and Clinton.

[mike72903]

...  Just saying if he actually wins I'll be gob smacked. 

We'll hope for a good gob smacking.

I can't tell you I'll be if it goes the other way.   

What are the dependable polls saying these days?

I think the dependable ones are saying we are screwed.

It's for you own good

[Serk]

...  Just saying if he actually wins I'll be gob smacked. 

We'll hope for a good gob smacking.

I can't tell you I'll be if it goes the other way.   

What are the dependable polls saying these days?

I think the dependable ones are saying we are screwed.

The day before the Brexit vote all the polls I saw had a 90% probability that Brexit would NOT pass...

Just saying...

I know very little of the so called Brexit. I was referring to polls of Trump and Clinton.

I know, I was pointing out the inherent unreliability of polls...

In other words, there's still hope for the survival of homo sapiens as a species, Hillary hasn't won yet... 

[The emperor has no clothes]

I still say we are screwed either way. One is just hard and fast with no lube, the other long, slow with plenty of lube but the same results. At this point Gary Johnson is looking pretty damn good. But most give the "deer in the headlights " look when you mention his name.

[Serk]

I still say we are screwed either way. One is just hard and fast with no lube, the other long, slow with plenty of lube but the same results. At this point Gary Johnson is looking pretty damn good. But most give the "deer in the headlights " look when you mention his name.

I actually agree with you. When you're driving towards the cliff, does it matter if you keep cruise control on, tap the brakes lightly or hammer the accelerator if you refuse to turn the steering wheel?

The only advantage I see in Trump's corner is he's slightly less likely to go on an anti-2nd Amendment bender in law and court appointees, so that when we do go over the inevitable edge at least we'll have the tools we need to get things back under control.

[Willow]

I still say we are screwed either way. One is just hard and fast with no lube, the other long, slow with plenty of lube but the same results. At this point Gary Johnson is looking pretty damn good. But most give the "deer in the headlights " look when you mention his name.

Are you saying you expect the outcome of this election to definitely be orgasmic?   

[The emperor has no clothes]

I still say we are screwed either way. One is just hard and fast with no lube, the other long, slow with plenty of lube but the same results. At this point Gary Johnson is looking pretty damn good. But most give the "deer in the headlights " look when you mention his name.

Are you saying you expect the outcome of this election to definitely be orgasmic?   

One can only hope. 

[Gavin_Sons]

I still say we are screwed either way. One is just hard and fast with no lube, the other long, slow with plenty of lube but the same results. At this point Gary Johnson is looking pretty damn good. But most give the "deer in the headlights " look when you mention his name.

Are you saying you expect the outcome of this election to definitely be orgasmic?   

It will be for Bill again if Hillary gets in

[MP]

I still say we are screwed either way. One is just hard and fast with no lube, the other long, slow with plenty of lube but the same results. At this point Gary Johnson is looking pretty damn good. But most give the "deer in the headlights " look when you mention his name.

Are you saying you expect the outcome of this election to definitely be orgasmic?   

It will be for Bill again if Hillary gets in

More Interns!

[SpidyJ]

The choices as I see it:

1. (R) Egomaniacal demagogue....crooked businessman.
2. (D) Unconvicted Criminal.

[3fan4life]

The more the establishment (of both parties) is against Trump, the more I'm for Trump.   

AGREED!

The more the liberal lamestream media is against him, the more I think I should be for him.

If they hate him, then he must be good for our country.

[baldo]

The more the establishment (of both parties) is against Trump, the more I'm for Trump.   

AGREED!

The more the liberal lamestream media is against him, the more I think I should be for him.

If they hate him, then he must be good for our country.

Yeah, that makes sense...

[Oss]

my ponderification ran along the lines of

If everybody who is part of the status quo that is broken, cooked and damn
unfair if not unconstitutional is piling on this person (Trump),
then logic tell me he  is outside of their reach and
hence dangerous to their $$$$$

So I am for him

Nowhere did I use the word liberal  conservative only that both Dems and Repubs SUCK

so yeah Bob it makes perfect sense

[dinosnake]

The huge joke is that the $$$$ interests that you speak of are the very dollar interests that pro-business politicians (read: a certain "east" side of the aisle) have forwarded for the past 30 years.

As usual, Bloomberg.com chimes in with a timely story today that covers the topic

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-27/get-ready-to-see-this-globalization-elephant-chart-over-and-over-again

[baldo]

my ponderification ran along the lines of

If everybody who is part of the status quo that is broken, cooked and damn
unfair if not unconstitutional is piling on this person (Trump),
then logic tell me he  is outside of their reach and
hence dangerous to their $$$$$

So I am for him

Nowhere did I use the word liberal  conservative only that both Dems and Repubs SUCK

so yeah Bob it makes perfect sense

No Oss, my remark wasn't directed at you, if that's what you're saying  .

As far as Trump being right because everyone hates him, that's probably the second most ridiculous thing I've read today. Trump has said some of the most idiotic things any candidate, ever, has ever said. He's absolutely not ready for prime time, not even close. Everyone has their own opinions of course, and will vote, or not vote, as the case may be. But if Trump, by some bizarre alignment of the planets and stars, wins the GE and steps on his johnson like I know he will. I hope every single person that is ready to pull the lever for him, admits they were way way wrong.

I can't wait for the debates.

[baldo]

The huge joke is that the $$$$ interests that you speak of are the very dollar interests that pro-business politicians (read: a certain "east" side of the aisle) have forwarded for the past 30 years.

As usual, Bloomberg.com chimes in with a timely story today that covers the topic

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-27/get-ready-to-see-this-globalization-elephant-chart-over-and-over-again

Watch out snake. Is that a biased news report? Is it in any way, shape or fashion relevant to the topic at hand?

[Skinhead]

my ponderification ran along the lines of

If everybody who is part of the status quo that is broken, cooked and damn
unfair if not unconstitutional is piling on this person (Trump),
then logic tell me he  is outside of their reach and
hence dangerous to their $$$$$

So I am for him

Nowhere did I use the word liberal  conservative only that both Dems and Repubs SUCK

so yeah Bob it makes perfect sense

No Oss, my remark wasn't directed at you, if that's what you're saying  .

As far as Trump being right because everyone hates him, that's probably the second most ridiculous thing I've read today. Trump has said some of the most idiotic things any candidate, ever, has ever said. He's absolutely not ready for prime time, not even close. Everyone has their own opinions of course, and will vote, or not vote, as the case may be. But if Trump, by some bizarre alignment of the planets and stars, wins the GE and steps on his johnson like I know he will. I hope every single person that is ready to pull the lever for him, admits they were way way wrong.

I can't wait for the debates.

I didn't go back and re-read Oss's post, but I don't recall him saying Trump was right, only that if the establishment is against him, and the establishment is bad, then Trump must be anti-establishment , and therefore good.  as far as what he says, what difference does that make, look at what barry said, all lies.  Maybe Trump took a page from the Dem playbook and is lying his way into office.

[mike72903]

The huge joke is that the $$$$ interests that you speak of are the very dollar interests that pro-business politicians (read: a certain "east" side of the aisle) have forwarded for the past 30 years.

As usual, Bloomberg.com chimes in with a timely story today that covers the topic

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-27/get-ready-to-see-this-globalization-elephant-chart-over-and-over-again

Man that chart gave me a headache trying to figure it out.  The gist is (I think) that worldwide the financial condition of the very poor and very rich have gone up, while the financial condition of those near the middle have gone up less (in some cases a lot less) and in a narrow band have actually decreased.  I've seen an article that found the same phenomenon limited to the United States.  Wish I'd bookmarked it. Seems like it explained the specifics a little better. 

[G-Man]

my ponderification ran along the lines of

If everybody who is part of the status quo that is broken, cooked and damn
unfair if not unconstitutional is piling on this person (Trump),
then logic tell me he  is outside of their reach and
hence dangerous to their $$$$$

So I am for him

Nowhere did I use the word liberal  conservative only that both Dems and Repubs SUCK

so yeah Bob it makes perfect sense

No Oss, my remark wasn't directed at you, if that's what you're saying  .

As far as Trump being right because everyone hates him, that's probably the second most ridiculous thing I've read today. Trump has said some of the most idiotic things any candidate, ever, has ever said. He's absolutely not ready for prime time, not even close. Everyone has their own opinions of course, and will vote, or not vote, as the case may be. But if Trump, by some bizarre alignment of the planets and stars, wins the GE and steps on his johnson like I know he will. I hope every single person that is ready to pull the lever for him, admits they were way way wrong.

I can't wait for the debates.

I didn't go back and re-read Oss's post, but I don't recall him saying Trump was right, only that if the establishment is against him, and the establishment is bad, then Trump must be anti-establishment , and therefore good.  as far as what he says, what difference does that make, look at what barry said, all lies.  Maybe Trump took a page from the Dem playbook and is lying his way into office.

At least Trump didn't lie to the parents of dead soldiers.

[G-Man]

my ponderification ran along the lines of

If everybody who is part of the status quo that is broken, cooked and damn
unfair if not unconstitutional is piling on this person (Trump),
then logic tell me he  is outside of their reach and
hence dangerous to their $$$$$

So I am for him

Nowhere did I use the word liberal  conservative only that both Dems and Repubs SUCK

so yeah Bob it makes perfect sense

No Oss, my remark wasn't directed at you, if that's what you're saying  .

As far as Trump being right because everyone hates him, that's probably the second most ridiculous thing I've read today. Trump has said some of the most idiotic things any candidate, ever, has ever said. He's absolutely not ready for prime time, not even close. Everyone has their own opinions of course, and will vote, or not vote, as the case may be. But if Trump, by some bizarre alignment of the planets and stars, wins the GE and steps on his johnson like I know he will. I hope every single person that is ready to pull the lever for him, admits they were way way wrong.

I can't wait for the debates.

You are ASSUMING Trump will do this and/or do that.  We already KNOW what Clinton is about, and that she lied to the parents of dead soldiers and took millions from Wall Street and foreign countries who oppress women and kill homosexuals, christians, and jews.  Why can't you make the admission that voting for Clinton is way way wrong?