A little Trump history

[baldo]

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/08/12/donald-trumps-business-failures-election-2016-486091.html

For those that admire his incredible business acumen.....

[Oss]

kinda like watching the video of Lincoln's failures before he was elected President.

just sayin....  You can find examples of big mouths, insults and such going back to the founding fathers  Now there is no example of the kind of outright lying and corruption of Clintons (except possibly teapot dome)

Now lets balance this with a list of the Democratic candidates failures or better yet a list of things she is on video as being for that she is now against or things she is on tape and email doing that she continues to deny

maybe like a wall
maybe like immigration/terrorist vulnerability
maybe like trade deals
maybe like anything she did while Sec of State, or working at any time in govmt
or the women she destroyed that Bill romanced
or our law enforcement and armed services personnel

Serk where are you boy?

[Robert]

Theodore Roosevelt's sayings I think are the best response to those critiques. Something the present admin nor Hillary can say.



“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
― Theodore Roosevelt



“The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first and love of soft living and the get-rich-quick theory of life.”
― Theodore Roosevelt

“A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user.”
― Theodore Roosevelt

“Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official, save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country. In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth, whether about the president or anyone else.”
― Theodore Roosevelt


We have been given 2 choices thats it. You can pull Trump down all you want but what can be said is he did thing legally. No matter how far you try to pull Trump down it would never get to the level that Hillary would be a consideration. She is ground floor corrupt, evil, lying, deceitful, and had to call in favors not to be arrested. You who want Hillary can do nothing but run a negative campaign now thats sad to have to pull someone down because your candidate has no positive accomplishments. This should speak volumes but somehow strangely it doesn't how far down that slippery slope have we come.


DO YOU WANT TO KNOW WHY POSTS LIKE THIS HAVE BECOME BORING PIECES OF FECES, IS BECAUSE WE GET IT. TRUMP IS NOT THE GREATEST, BUT HILLARY IS SO MIND NUMBINGLY BAD THAT ITS NOT EVEN A CONSIDERATION. SO THIS IS THE BEST YOU CAN DO IS IT? SAD DAY WHEN THIS IS THE BEST THE DEMOCRATS OR ANYONE CAN DO IS HILARY.

[Gavin_Sons]

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/08/12/donald-trumps-business-failures-election-2016-486091.html

For those that admire his incredible business acumen.....

yeah, take that Conservatives. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it. Boy you really got us on that one.
 

[98valk]

Trump is still worth billions. How much are u worth Baldo?

Trump's agenda - Maintain the Sovereignty of the United States of America, thereby maintaining the Freedoms you grew up to know and love.

Clinton's agenda - DESTROY the Sovereignty of the United States of America and continue the Progressive Globalization (One world Government) implemented by past POTUS which will remove most, if not all of the Freedoms you grew up to know and love.
Do you hear her and O's speeches ever notice how often they use the word "Globalization?"

just remember what happened here;

This is how a myth is constructed: we hear the same story everywhere. The repetition of the story convinces us that the story has been confirmed. But, of course, repetition is hardly confirmation. If it were, every urban legend would be true.

It is important to pause and reflect on what this means. If the media can lie so blatantly about what Milosevic said in 1989, and if they do it consistently and across the board, something is wrong.

The question is: how wrong?

The US government obviously has an interest in demonizing the people it bombed. Although its own translation of the speech is a rebuke to how the speech has been portrayed, we should not expect the US government to criticize the misinformation. This is unjustifiable, and corrupt, but not unexpected.

Explaining the behavior of the BBC, on the other hand, is not so easy. The BBC is not the US government. Its role is supposedly to give us the truth, as best it can. Moreover, the BBC is supposed to be in competition with other media outlets. Since the BBC translated the speech, they were in a position to lay bare that what was being written about the speech was misinformation. They have not done it, and this is a very serious sin of journalistic omission.

If only this was their biggest sin!

On April 1, 2001, the BBC wrote the following:

Why is the BBC reporting things that it knows are false?

Since this level of dishonesty is possible, I am forced to wonder what else is possible. What can we believe about what has been written about Milosevic in particular, and Yugoslavia more generally? After all, the demonization of Milosevic, and the Serbs more generally, perfectly fits with the propaganda aims of the NATO powers that went to war against Yugoslavia, including the US and Britain. Here we have seen that the media establishment in these two countries has produced stories about Milosevic’s speech that are consistent with such a deliberate propaganda campaign.

http://www.hirhome.com/yugo/milospeech.htm

http://www.hirhome.com/


28 March 2016
The Rovaja Revolution in northern Syria is a gender-equal, fiercely democratic, religiously tolerant Muslim movement that is bravely fighting and defeating ISIS on the ground. It is inspiring ordinary people all over the West, and some are lining up to fight with the Rojavans against the Islamists. Those interested in world geopolitics and the future of democracy worldwide would do well to pay attention to the fate of the Rojava movement. For its fate, like the fate of Republican Spain in the prelude to World War II, will be a harbinger of things to come.


http://www.oilempire.us/soros.html

see how he always backs globalists.
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
The Rovaja Revolution in northern Syria is a gender-equal, fiercely democratic, religiously tolerant Muslim movement that is bravely fighting and defeating ISIS on the ground. It is inspiring ordinary people all over the West, and some are lining up to fight with the Rojavans against the Islamists. Those interested in world geopolitics and the future of democracy worldwide would do well to pay attention to the fate of the Rojava movement. For its fate, like the fate of Republican Spain in the prelude to World War II, will be a harbinger of things to come
 

[Rams]

TRUMP IS NOT THE GREATEST, BUT HILLARY IS SO MIND NUMBINGLY BAD THAT ITS NOT EVEN A CONSIDERATION. SO THIS IS THE BEST YOU CAN DO IS IT? SAD DAY WHEN THIS IS THE BEST THE DEMOCRATS OR ANYONE CAN DO IS HILARY.

Precisely the way I feel.   

I "think" Hillary will most likely win.   I fear for my future grandkids.   They will only know what the history books tell them.   Unfortunately, history gets written (and re-written) by the winners so, they may never know what liberty, freedom and self-reliance are.   We'll just let the government take care of us and run our lives until they go broke.   Then hope the Saudis or the Chinese will take care of us.   

I have often wondered what the Clinton's hold dear besides money, power and the perks that go along with being king and queen of the world.   Our system is so corrupted and broken that these are the best two candidates we can come up with as leaders?   Very Sad.    I don't like Trump but, I despise Clinton.   If, that's not clear, please let me know.

[baldo]

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/08/12/donald-trumps-business-failures-election-2016-486091.html

For those that admire his incredible business acumen.....

yeah, take that Conservatives. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it. Boy you really got us on that one.
 

Lol....the funny thing, I wasn't trying to get anyone....

[Rams]

Lol....the funny thing, I wasn't trying to get anyone....

Based on many previous posts, the credibility of this is very questionable.   But, if you say so............

But, I will admit that one's perspective is relative to any judgement.

[FLAVALK]

So you like Newsweek? Probably the most biased left leaning publication in this country. And you think Breitbart and FOX are biased? Newsweek is laughable and ranks right up there with the National Enquirer.

 

[baldo]

TRUMP IS NOT THE GREATEST, BUT HILLARY IS SO MIND NUMBINGLY BAD THAT ITS NOT EVEN A CONSIDERATION. SO THIS IS THE BEST YOU CAN DO IS IT? SAD DAY WHEN THIS IS THE BEST THE DEMOCRATS OR ANYONE CAN DO IS HILARY.

Precisely the way I feel.   

I "think" Hillary will most likely win.   I fear for my future grandkids.   They will only know what the history books tell them.   Unfortunately, history gets written (and re-written) by the winners so, they may never know what liberty, freedom and self-reliance are.   We'll just let the government take care of us and run our lives until they go broke.   Then hope the Saudis or the Chinese will take care of us.   

I have often wondered what the Clinton's hold dear besides money, power and the perks that go along with being king and queen of the world.   Our system is so corrupted and broken that these are the best two candidates we can come up with as leaders?   Very Sad.    I don't like Trump but, I despise Clinton.   If, that's not clear, please let me know.

Good morning,

We'll just have to see what we will see as far as how Clinton performs as Pres....

My link was just a response to those that keep using his business brilliance as a reason to justify their vote.  Just trying to help...

As others have said, going back and forth like this is never going to change anyone's mind here on this board.

I find the responses very interesting, ranging from Roosevelt to Milosevic  

[Valkorado]

Baldo quote:
"We'll just have to see what we will see as far as how Clinton performs as Pres...."


Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead!

Great attitude -- when trying a new toothpaste brand.  Plus, we've seen how she performed as Secretary of State...  

[Rams]

Baldo quote:
"We'll just have to see what we will see as far as how Clinton performs as Pres...."


Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead!

Great attitude -- when trying a new toothpaste brand.  Plus, we've seen how she performed as Secretary of State...  

It will be interesting to see how many of the celebrities who are currently volunteering their support and assistance to Hillary jump at the opportunity to be an Ambassador during her administration.

[Gavin_Sons]

Baldo quote:
"We'll just have to see what we will see as far as how Clinton performs as Pres...."


Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead!

Great attitude -- when trying a new toothpaste brand.  Plus, we've seen how she performed as Secretary of State...  

It will be interesting to see how many of the celebrities who are currently volunteering their support and assistance to Hillary jump at the opportunity to be an Ambassador during her administration.

why would they do that? She already got one killed.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Baldo quote:
"We'll just have to see what we will see as far as how Clinton performs as Pres...."


Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead!

Great attitude -- when trying a new toothpaste brand.  Plus, we've seen how she performed as Secretary of State...  

It will be interesting to see how many of the celebrities who are currently volunteering their support and assistance to Hillary jump at the opportunity to be an Ambassador during her administration.

why would they do that? She already got one killed.

He was being facetious.   

[Valkorado]

Baldo quote:
"We'll just have to see what we will see as far as how Clinton performs as Pres...."


Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead!

Great attitude -- when trying a new toothpaste brand.  Plus, we've seen how she performed as Secretary of State...  

It will be interesting to see how many of the celebrities who are currently volunteering their support and assistance to Hillary jump at the opportunity to be an Ambassador during her administration.

why would they do that? She already got one killed.

He was being facetious.   

Yes, and Gavin was being serious.

[RainMaker]

Just like Trump, some will go for the bait everytime.  Baldo is just having fun fishing.

[Moonshot_1]

To paraphrase a Ms. Pelosi, an Icon of the Democrats and legend in her own mind....

We won't know how truly corrupt Mrs. Clinton is until we elect her.

[The emperor has no clothes]

So you like Newsweek? Probably the most biased left leaning publication in this country. And you think Breitbart and FOX are biased? Newsweek is laughable and ranks right up there with the National Enquirer.

 

Whoa now. The Donald says the National Enquirer is a great newspaper and should get a Pulitzer .

[Gavin_Sons]

Baldo quote:
"We'll just have to see what we will see as far as how Clinton performs as Pres...."


Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead!

Great attitude -- when trying a new toothpaste brand.  Plus, we've seen how she performed as Secretary of State...  

It will be interesting to see how many of the celebrities who are currently volunteering their support and assistance to Hillary jump at the opportunity to be an Ambassador during her administration.

why would they do that? She already got one killed.

He was being facetious.   

Yes, and Gavin was being serious.

 

[Serk]

[98valk]

We'll just have to see what we will see as far as how Clinton performs as Pres....

My link was just a response to those that keep using his business brilliance as a reason to justify their vote.  Just trying to help...

[/quote]

NANCY PELOSI: But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it away
every lawyer in the US tells u not sign anything unless u read it first.

Trumps business brilliance has brought him billions, how about you??
Maybe u need to learn something here Baldo? Are u worth billions or do u just like to condemn people who are successful and u have no idea how they got there? Or do u just like people (clinton) who rise to the top using all kinds of favors while destroying other peoples lives with no remorse?

“Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly.” - Robert F. Kennedy

“Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm.” - Winston Churchill

“Failure isn’t fatal, but failure to change might be” – John Wooden

“When you take risks you learn that there will be times when you succeed and there will be times when you fail, and both are equally important.” - Ellen DeGeneres

“If you’re not prepared to be wrong, you’ll never come up with anything original.” - Ken Robinson

“It’s failure that gives you the proper perspective on success.” - Ellen DeGeneres

“Winners are not afraid of losing. But losers are. Failure is part of the process of success. People who avoid failure also avoid success.” - Robert T. Kiyosaki

“Giving up is the only sure way to fail.” - Gena Showalter

“If you don’t try at anything, you can’t fail… it takes back bone to lead the life you want” - Richard Yates

“Failure should be our teacher, not our undertaker. Failure is delay, not defeat. It is a temporary detour, not a dead end. Failure is something we can avoid only by saying nothing, doing nothing, and being nothing.” - Denis Waitley

“I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” - Thomas A. Edison

“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

“The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing.” - Henry Ford

“Failures are finger posts on the road to achievement.” - C.S. Lewis

“You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don’t try to forget the mistakes, but you don’t dwell on it. You don’t let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.” - Johnny Cash

“Failure is so important. We speak about success all the time. It is the ability to resist failure or use failure that often leads to greater success. I’ve met people who don’t want to try for fear of failing.” - J.K. Rowling

“No human ever became interesting by not failing. The more you fail and recover and improve, the better you are as a person. Ever meet someone who’s always had everything work out for them with zero struggle? They usually have the depth of a puddle (Clinton). Or they don’t exist.” - Chris Hardwick

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ekaterinawalter/2013/12/30/30-powerful-quotes-on-failure/#149e75d15d33

[baldo]

Baldo quote:
"We'll just have to see what we will see as far as how Clinton performs as Pres...."


Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead!

Great attitude -- when trying a new toothpaste brand.  Plus, we've seen how she performed as Secretary of State...  

It will be interesting to see how many of the celebrities who are currently volunteering their support and assistance to Hillary jump at the opportunity to be an Ambassador during her administration.

why would they do that? She already got one killed.

Actually, that would be the result of several funding cuts performed by the Republican led Congress...but what difference does it make?

[F-six]

So... The general feeling is the more you have failed in the past the better president you will be in the future?

Interesting..

  

[baldo]

Honestly it wasn't my intention..but I could see where one would think that....

As could this....

http://www.dailynewsbin.com/news/bankrupt-trump-taj-mahal-closes-its-doors/25508/

[..]

TRUMP IS NOT THE GREATEST, BUT HILLARY IS SO MIND NUMBINGLY BAD THAT ITS NOT EVEN A CONSIDERATION. SO THIS IS THE BEST YOU CAN DO IS IT? SAD DAY WHEN THIS IS THE BEST THE DEMOCRATS OR ANYONE CAN DO IS HILARY.

As others have said, going back and forth like this is never going to change anyone's mind here on this board.

But like a dog to its vomit you keep returning to the same trolling.

The definition of insanity is ...............................................

[Valkorado]

Your bait keeps biting you, Baldo. 

Trump Taj Mahal filed a (legal) bankruptcy?  Really, that's the best you can do?  Let's look at the Obama economy, a path Hilary plans to follow.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/07/29/us-economy-close-to-stagnant-for-almost-a-year-as-growth-shudder/

[baldo]

TRUMP IS NOT THE GREATEST, BUT HILLARY IS SO MIND NUMBINGLY BAD THAT ITS NOT EVEN A CONSIDERATION. SO THIS IS THE BEST YOU CAN DO IS IT? SAD DAY WHEN THIS IS THE BEST THE DEMOCRATS OR ANYONE CAN DO IS HILARY.

As others have said, going back and forth like this is never going to change anyone's mind here on this board.

But like a dog to its vomit you keep returning to the same trolling.

The definition of insanity is ...............................................

It's funny that you call this trolling when a liberal posts things that go against the grain. But when the majority of comments and posters are overwhelmingly anti-left, everything's cool and all is good with the world.

[98valk]

As could this....

http://www.dailynewsbin.com/news/bankrupt-trump-taj-mahal-closes-its-doors/25508/
[/quote]

Trump doesn't own it. It was sold earlier in the year.
Reason it is going under is due to the greedy socialist unions striking for more, more, more.
Now they have no job!

so your political knowledge and views of the world are based off of misleading headlines?

[baldo]

Your bait keeps biting you, Baldo. 

Trump Taj Mahal filed a (legal) bankruptcy?  Really, that's the best you can do?  Let's look at the Obama economy, a path Hilary plans to follow.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/07/29/us-economy-close-to-stagnant-for-almost-a-year-as-growth-shudder/

Sorry, I'm only going to handle one back and forth at a time. But I'll counter with this just to show due diligence......

You mention almost a year, how about 7 years......

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/01/obamas-numbers-january-2015-update/

[Gavin_Sons]

As could this....

http://www.dailynewsbin.com/news/bankrupt-trump-taj-mahal-closes-its-doors/25508/

Trump doesn't own it. It was sold earlier in the year.
Reason it is going under is due to the greedy socialist unions striking for more, more, more.
Now they have no job!

so your political knowledge and views of the world are based off of misleading headlines?
[/quote]

  BURN

[baldo]

As could this....

http://www.dailynewsbin.com/news/bankrupt-trump-taj-mahal-closes-its-doors/25508/

Trump doesn't own it. It was sold earlier in the year.
Reason it is going under is due to the greedy socialist unions striking for more, more, more.
Now they have no job!

so your political knowledge and views of the world are based off of misleading headlines?
[/quote]

Nice job cherry picking, taking one sentence out of that whole article and owning it. How about sharing the text all around that one sentence.

Talk about misleading.....try again.

[Willow]

Life as we can best understand what we see.

First let me clarify that I am not a  Donald Trump supporter.  I will vote for him but it's because he is the alternative selection to Hillary Clinton.  I do find the bullshit attacks on Donald Trump to be mostly bullshit.  I find some of the attacks on the Democratic Party candidate over the top but a large number of the statements on character and failures of that candidate I find confirmed an believable.

The O.P. posted an article that focuses on Donald Trump's business failures (and thus his inability to successfully serve?).  I'll let the record stand for itself.

The largest believable estimate of Donald Trump's net worth in 1972 is 40 million dollars.  Trump himself claims he only inherited one million dollars at that time.  I'm sure both numbers are influenced by what is and what is not counted.  Twelve years later, 1984, the most conservative credible estimates of Mr. Trump's worth are at 200 million dollars.  Today credible estimates of his net worth range from 3.9 billion dollars to something approaching the ten billion that he has publicly claimed.  For those mathematically challenged that is an increase of approaching one hundred times in some forty-four years.  For those who prefer percentages it's a 9,750 percent of the 1972 worth.

Failures?  I'm sure the financial climb looks like any upward sloped graph with dips and spurts.  I wouldn't focus too exclusively on the dips.  

For comparison purposes in 1972 my net worth was something just under $4,000.  I've had almost the same percentage increase as had the Donald but I won't run if nominated nor will I serve if elected.

I just couldn't stop myself once I began to research.  Hillary Clinton's net worth is reported to be something near 31.3 million dollars.  When combined with her husband's their joint worth is around one hundred thirty million.

President Obama's net worth is reported to be about three and a half million.  I didn't check on his wife.  

Once more, I'm not voting for Donald Trump because he's a fantastic businessman, although he does seem to do alright.  I'm voting for Donald Trump because he is the only alternative to Hillary Clinton.  If you want to influence me to change my vote show me the other meaningful alternative.

The reason Donald Trump won in the primaries is not because he was overwhelmingly evidenced as the best possible candidate for the job.  It was because the voters were sick and tired of the repeated political status quo and he is outside of the political sorority.    

[baldo]

  BURN

[baldo]

The reason Donald Trump won in the primaries is not because he was overwhelmingly evidenced as the best possible candidate for the job.  It was because the voters were sick and tired of the repeated political status quo and he is outside of the political sorority.    

The biggest reason he won in the primaries was due to the quality or lack thereof of his opponents....that was impressive. But not in a good way.

[Willow]

The reason Donald Trump won in the primaries is not because he was overwhelmingly evidenced as the best possible candidate for the job.  It was because the voters were sick and tired of the repeated political status quo and he is outside of the political sorority.    

The biggest reason he won in the primaries was due to the quality or lack thereof of his opponents....that was impressive. But not in a good way.

And that assessment shows your complete lack of understanding of not only what took place, but of reality itself.  Unfortunately you may be certainly more representative than I of the voters in our country today.

[RGM]

The reason Donald Trump won in the primaries is not because he was overwhelmingly evidenced as the best possible candidate for the job.  It was because the voters were sick and tired of the repeated political status quo and he is outside of the political sorority.    

The biggest reason he won in the primaries was due to the quality or lack thereof of his opponents....that was impressive. But not in a good way.

Being a 3 in a sea of 2's makes you look pretty good. LOL . Big questions is why are there no good candidates?

[baldo]

The reason Donald Trump won in the primaries is not because he was overwhelmingly evidenced as the best possible candidate for the job.  It was because the voters were sick and tired of the repeated political status quo and he is outside of the political sorority.    

The biggest reason he won in the primaries was due to the quality or lack thereof of his opponents....that was impressive. But not in a good way.

And that assessment shows your complete lack of understanding of not only what took place, but of reality itself.  Unfortunately you may be certainly more representative than I of the voters in our country today.

Yeah, anyone that doesn't share your view is from another dimension. I get it....

Thanks for sharing, Willow. I'll take it under advisement.....

[MP]

The reason Donald Trump won in the primaries is not because he was overwhelmingly evidenced as the best possible candidate for the job.  It was because the voters were sick and tired of the repeated political status quo and he is outside of the political sorority.    

The biggest reason he won in the primaries was due to the quality or lack thereof of his opponents....that was impressive. But not in a good way.

I am sure, by your standards, that there is not a single Republican in the United States who is fit to serve. Millions who have NOT committed the crimes Hillary has.

[MP]

Baldo quote:
"We'll just have to see what we will see as far as how Clinton performs as Pres...."


Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead!

Great attitude -- when trying a new toothpaste brand.  Plus, we've seen how she performed as Secretary of State...  

It will be interesting to see how many of the celebrities who are currently volunteering their support and assistance to Hillary jump at the opportunity to be an Ambassador during her administration.

why would they do that? She already got one killed.

Actually, that would be the result of several funding cuts performed by the Republican led Congress...but what difference does it make?

Actually, the Democratic Led State Department, during the Benghazi hearings, testified, under oath, that the funding cuts had ZERO effect on security measures taken in Libya.

[baldo]

The reason Donald Trump won in the primaries is not because he was overwhelmingly evidenced as the best possible candidate for the job.  It was because the voters were sick and tired of the repeated political status quo and he is outside of the political sorority.    

The biggest reason he won in the primaries was due to the quality or lack thereof of his opponents....that was impressive. But not in a good way.

I am sure, by your standards, that there is not a single Republican in the United States who is fit to serve. Millions who have NOT committed the crimes Hillary has.

Actually, that's where you're wrong. Republicans that aren't batcrap crazy like the current crop, were always interesting to read and listen to. I may not have agreed with their ideas, but I had no problem considering their positions.