Non Valk

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

As most of our members now know, the president issued another declaration/proclamation/executive order, this time through the state department on July 22 of this year.

Prior to this directive, a gunsmith could repair, refinish, re-barrel, re-chamber, tune, make a new stock, accurize, lighten, or otherwise modify the customers firearm as the customer desired as long as the firearm remained a legal firearm.

Now, because of this July 22 directive, a gunsmith who does anything more than replace parts and/or refinish has become a “manufacturer” and must register with the state department. The cost of this is $2,250 for the first year and $2,750 per year afterwards. The original ITAR law was intended to apply to manufactures who may export firearms or firearm parts, not to the neighborhood shop repairing Grandpa's old squirrel rifle, accurizing a target pistol or shaping a piece of walnut to replace a broken stock on a family heirloom.

If this new interpretation of an old law stands, you should expect 95% of US gunsmiths to be out of business by the end of 2017. And the prices of the remaining US gunsmiths to be geared towards serving only the wealthy.

Imagine if the garage down the street who repairs your car was suddenly deemed an “auto-manufacturer” and had to meet the same hurdles and expenses as does GM? Yes, that's exactly what we are talking about.

There is a petition to put Gunsmithing back under the control of the ATF only, not the ATF and ITAR and I'm asking everyone I know to sign it, and ask their friends, family and co-workers to do the same.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/remove-gunsmithing-itar

[Gavin_Sons]

Signed, I hnow how importand you gunsmiths are. Where would I get my shotgun fixed I hit on a low branch while deer hunting and crack the stock.  Obama is a moron and knows nothing of this. I say screw him and you guys keep doing what your doing 

[Jess from VA]

DC....... it's not just a job, it's a blow job.  

I'm assuming the idea of a bunch of small one-man shops combining is out.... based on location.  IE different address, different license.  

This is not a license, this is an unconstitutional taking, with no due process.  

One might ask, why does a one-man local gunsmith shop (in Indiana or elsewhere), doing only domestic/local business, need to be regulated (and taxed) by the US State Department? [International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR)]

Signed. 

[baldo]

Signed, #7989........believe it or not....

If that's what the new rules boil down to, I agree, total BS. I hope this and other ridiculous regulations die an early death.

[The emperor has no clothes]

It appears its not an executive order by Obama, but a request by a sport shooting group for clarification of the rules.
https://www.thetrace.org/2016/08/nra-obama-executive-gun-control-order/

[baldo]

It appears its not an executive order by Obama, but a request by a sport shooting group for clarification of the rules.
https://www.thetrace.org/2016/08/nra-obama-executive-gun-control-order/

Damnit! I was going to verify the EO biz, but got sidetracked.....

I was asleep at the switch....

[Bighead]

It appears its not an executive order by Obama, but a request by a sport shooting group for clarification of the rules.
https://www.thetrace.org/2016/08/nra-obama-executive-gun-control-order/

Ok so a request? Can you say who agreed to it to make it so?

[Wizzard]

I am surprised someone does not chime in with "what difference does it make"   

[old2soon]

I am surprised someone does not chime in with "what difference does it make"   

                A non gun owner might!  Those of us that do own KNOW where this is headed.  RIDE SAFE.

[Wizzard]

I will always be a proud gun owner. Gun control is hitting what you are aiming at.

[Bighead]

I will always be a proud gun owner. Gun control is hitting what you are aiming at.

When they are outlawed well I guess I will be an Outlaw

[baldo]

It appears its not an executive order by Obama, but a request by a sport shooting group for clarification of the rules.
https://www.thetrace.org/2016/08/nra-obama-executive-gun-control-order/

Well that'll teach me to take something at face value....

From the linked article....

“In no way was this an executive order,” said a State Department official who spoke to The Trace on the condition of anonymity. “And it wasn’t new. This was a compilation of determinations we had already made in previous cases.”

The willingness of the NRA to present a procedural clarification requested by another gun organization as the latest evidence that the federal government is trying to undermine the Second Amendment shows how eager the group is to fuel the ire of its members. Having successfully fought off all new gun regulations at the federal level for more than two decades, the NRA is constantly on the prowl for new fights that it can wage. It needs to prove that the rights of gun owners are perpetually in jeopardy.

“The NRA’s literature and information that goes to its members always includes some kind of apoplectic prediction that there will be some new gun ban, something that will deprive people of their Second Amendment rights,” says Robert Spitzer, a political scientist and one of the country’s foremost experts on the gun rights movement. “And for the NRA, the question is, what’s the bill or executive order that would do that? They need to keep their base attentive and supporting the cause, so they have to come up with stuff.”

[Jess from VA]

Whether Zero had a hand in it or not, everyone who did should have their heads removed and placed on the White House fence for public viewing.  

Federal bureaucrats taking away American freedom, whenever and wherever they can.

The law already existed, we just interpreted it........... is horsesh!t.

Robert Spitzer is no friend of the Constitution or the 2d Amendment (neither is The Trace).  He is a college teacher.    

[The emperor has no clothes]

It appears its not an executive order by Obama, but a request by a sport shooting group for clarification of the rules.
https://www.thetrace.org/2016/08/nra-obama-executive-gun-control-order/

Well that'll teach me to take something at face value....

From the linked article....

“In no way was this an executive order,” said a State Department official who spoke to The Trace on the condition of anonymity. “And it wasn’t new. This was a compilation of determinations we had already made in previous cases.”

The willingness of the NRA to present a procedural clarification requested by another gun organization as the latest evidence that the federal government is trying to undermine the Second Amendment shows how eager the group is to fuel the ire of its members. Having successfully fought off all new gun regulations at the federal level for more than two decades, the NRA is constantly on the prowl for new fights that it can wage. It needs to prove that the rights of gun owners are perpetually in jeopardy.

“The NRA’s literature and information that goes to its members always includes some kind of apoplectic prediction that there will be some new gun ban, something that will deprive people of their Second Amendment rights,” says Robert Spitzer, a political scientist and one of the country’s foremost experts on the gun rights movement. “And for the NRA, the question is, what’s the bill or executive order that would do that? They need to keep their base attentive and supporting the cause, so they have to come up with stuff.”

We all get taken at one time or another Bob. At least you didn't fall for "Obama banned the Pledge of Allegiance". 

[Bighead]

To the ISIS flag?

[MarkT]

Signed.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I was told this was a directive from the president. Perhaps I was misinformed, perhaps he knew nothing of the new rules. I would find that hard to believe since this is a major change affecting tens of thousands of people from an agency under his direction.

And yes, however they spin it, most of this is new regulation. One of the largest gunsmithing schools in the country (If not the largest) just sent out a E mail concerning these new rules and stating they are sending in their money to become compliant with these new regulations and they will inform their students of what the process requires when it's complete. If this wasn't new, they would have already done this years ago.

Prior to this, a gunsmith could build a custom firearm to a customers specs as long as the customer bought or previously owned the frame/receiver. A gunsmith was free to re-barrel, re-chamber, thread or machine as needed to do this. A gunsmith could re-chamber or re-barrel an existing firearm to change calibers, he could replace a damaged or worn out barrel or install a new barrel to improve accuracy or range. A gunsmith could make a new stock to keep a customers family heirloom usable or for any other reason.

Only manufacturing fell under the ITAR curtain. However they may try to spin it now, this is new, or at least it's a newly expanded interpretation of existing rules. And since the words enforced "retroactively" were used along with $500,000 fines and 20 jail terms it would seem intended to chill the free speech of those of us in the firearms industry during an election season. And I have to admit, it does have that affect.

Believe me, I would not have invested my money and future into this business without thoroughly investigating it.

While I have doubts that this petition will be able to effect a change, it would be nice to at least hear some kind of explanation from the administration which reaching the required number of signatures would seem to require.

In the mean time, although I still own and operate a "gunsmith shop" I am now reduced to parts replacement and refinishing only which is very disappointing after spending the last 30 years saving money, expanding my knowledge and working to be in a position to make this happen. My object was to help people keep their family heirlooms, hunting and self-defense firearms operating safely and efficiently while creating a small income to supplement social security when I have to retire from the "day job".

I didn't want a handout, I didn't want help, I didn't want anything except the opportunity to support myself while helping my fellow citizens. Changing the rules on me and the country's other gunsmiths this way with the evident intention of forcing us out of business is wrong and un-American.

Many thanks to those who signed the petition and those who yet will.
Frye

[Bighead]

Done. And it may be a problem that you didn't want help or a hand out

[old2soon]

Signed the petition. I Hope and PRAY y'all get ENOUGH signatures!  RIDE SAFE.

[Pappy!]

Signed by a proud NRA member.....are you one as well ?

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Lifetime!  

[Hook#3287]

Signed.

What Spitzer states about the NRA is good with me.

That's their job and their good at it, thankfully.

Can you spell "watch dog"

[hubcapsc]

OK, I signed it. I almost didn't look at this thread, it just says "non valk".

-Mike "I reconsidered when I thought it might be cat pictures  "

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Here is a link to the NSSF letter to the State Department concerning these new restrictions/regulations.

I noticed in a link above someone was blaming the gun industry, specifically the NSSF for the new regulations. These new regulations are perhaps written broadly enough to cause gun-owners who do work on their own firearms to fall under these new regulations, not just gunsmiths.

Imagine you are at the range talking to another shooter and mention that you glass-bedded your rifle to improve accuracy or did anything to improve the accuracy of your pistol or rifle. Then a week or two later you receive a certified letter from the state department threatening you with a $500,000 fine and jail time. That may well be the reality of these new regulations.

Below is a link to the NSSF letter to the state department concerning this. Read it for yourself and read the new regulations for yourself also. In particular it would be good for our member attorneys to read it and see if they agree it's broad enough to encompass gun-owners in addition to gunsmiths. Perhaps I am misreading it. I do believe a wise person once said "every law should be written with the assumption that it will be used in the worst possible way". If you look at these new regulations that way you see how bad they are.

http://nssf.org/share/pdf/081816-NSSF_letter_to_DDTC-Nilsson_DDTC_Guidance_of_Applic_of_ITAR.pdf

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

The new guidelines.

Sorry it's taken me so long to follow this up. I still work two jobs,  the day job and as a gunsmith. Today was a "day job" day.

http://www.nssfblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/ITAR_RegReq.pdf

[The emperor has no clothes]

Here is a link to the NSSF letter to the State Department concerning these new restrictions/regulations.

I noticed in a link above someone was blaming the gun industry, specifically the NSSF for the new regulations. These new regulations are perhaps written broadly enough to cause gun-owners who do work on their own firearms to fall under these new regulations, not just gunsmiths.

Imagine you are at the range talking to another shooter and mention that you glass-bedded your rifle to improve accuracy or did anything to improve the accuracy of your pistol or rifle. Then a week or two later you receive a certified letter from the state department threatening you with a $500,000 fine and jail time. That may well be the reality of these new regulations.

Below is a link to the NSSF letter to the state department concerning this. Read it for yourself and read the new regulations for yourself also. In particular it would be good for our member attorneys to read it and see if they agree it's broad enough to encompass gun-owners in addition to gunsmiths. Perhaps I am misreading it. I do believe a wise person once said "every law should be written with the assumption that it will be used in the worst possible way". If you look at these new regulations that way you see how bad they are.

http://nssf.org/share/pdf/081816-NSSF_letter_to_DDTC-Nilsson_DDTC_Guidance_of_Applic_of_ITAR.pdf

To be honest I know very little about it. I wasn't blaming anybody. I just like to get the facts straight. On the face of it it seems onerous. I just want people to base their decisions on fact. Not what the NRA or any other lobbying organization puts out as "facts".

[Bighead]

Lets see this is this mans profession and was told it was a directive from 1600 penn ave ? Yet you question his livelyhood? who better to know than the ones it effects?

[The emperor has no clothes]

Lets see this is this mans profession and was told it was a directive from 1600 penn ave ? Yet you question his livelyhood? who better to know than the ones it effects?

Did you read the article ?  I believe Frye has already acknowledged it wasn't an executive order. I didn't question his livelihood in any way. (I not Y)

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Here's a letter from many of our US Senators to Secretary of State John Kerry concerning this issue. As you can see, these are indeed new interpretations of ITAR rules. Not as was implied above "just the same old rules".
https://www.daines.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/ITAR%20Letter.pdf

Many of our Congressmen have also signed and sent the same letter to the Secretary of State. It looks like there maybe legislation floated to remedy this situation if these letters are ignored. Amazingly, even Senator John McCain appears to have signed the letter from the Senate.

Below is what the NRA has to say about it. For those of you who disbelieve anything America's oldest and largest civil rights group has to say on this issue, you can always just not read it. :-)

For myself, if these rules stand, I might as well have put the $80,000 or so I've spent building my retirement business into a pile and used it to roast hotdogs. That's OK though, I've done good work for good people while investing my time, money and future into something I believe in. :-) That's more than many will ever experience.

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20160902/pro-gun-members-of-congress-respond-to-state-department-s-disastrous-manufacturing-guidance