not even raised as a muslim..

[98valk]

http://pamelageller.com/2016/08/california-muslim-convert-beheaded-his-foster-grandparents-in-the-cause-of-jihad.html/

During an interview with detectives at the Glendale police station that day, Nathaniel Scheiern confessed to killing his grandparents and trying to behead them after they’d attended an event at Calvary Bible Church, Glendale Police Det. Jeff Davis testified. The elderly couple frequented the church about twice a week.

- See more at: http://pamelageller.com/2016/08/california-muslim-convert-beheaded-his-foster-grandparents-in-the-cause-of-jihad.html/#sthash.SDJxpvsJ.dpuf

[Jess from VA]

Take him to Syria and drop him from a plane to be with his buddies.   No chute though. 

Insane people should be executed the same as sane people (whether insane at the time of the crime or insane at trial, or both).  Screw PC, we don't have a human shortage.

We don't have an insane human shortage either. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

Take him to Syria and drop him from a plane to be with his buddies.   No chute though. 

Insane people should be executed the same as sane people (whether insane at the time of the crime or insane at trial, or both).  Screw PC, we don't have a human shortage.

We don't have an insane human shortage either. 

I didn't read the article. But I'm curious if you are serious about executing people who are truly insane ? And if so how about mentally handicapped people ?

[Jess from VA]

If you kill (on purpose), you die (or at least face the penalty to the jury).  Insane or not.

Insanity (however defined), mental defectiveness, handicap, could/should always be argued and considered in extenuation and mitigation at sentencing (after conviction), but it should not be an automatic bar to execution.  It has been forever, and will not change, but it is wrong.

[Oss]

I have always thought as Jess on this issue

The verdict should be Guilty and Insane Depravity

Execution seems appropriate

Now one who does not have the mental capacity to even form the mens rea that is different

Here the dude knew what he was doing

[Chrisj CMA]

I believe all that murder are insane, at least during the act.

Capital punishment should be renamed, it's really not punishment at all merely insurance.

There needs to be changes to our system as it will never be perfect however, it is scriptural that one that murders be himself dealt with in kind by the hand of man.

[MP]

Take him to Syria and drop him from a plane to be with his buddies.   No chute though. 

Insane people should be executed the same as sane people (whether insane at the time of the crime or insane at trial, or both).  Screw PC, we don't have a human shortage.

We don't have an insane human shortage either. 

I didn't read the article. But I'm curious if you are serious about executing people who are truly insane ? And if so how about mentally handicapped people ?

Not sure from your sentence, but he is refering to just those who have committed heinous crimes, not ALL insane.  Myself, I am not sure.  Part of me says, no, they did not know what they were doing.  However, another part said they still killed someone, that person is dead, and many, many other loved ones are drastically affected by that one act.  Is it wrong to take the life of one who caused such untold misery and angst?

[Willow]

I have serious problems with simply letting someone off the hook either now or in the future based solely upon a diagnosis of insanity. I don't have a problem with putting someone away in a manner which guarantees that that person will never again be allowed to mix with society.  I'm all for life sentences for those who have committed a heinous crimes so long as they really are life sentences.  A so called life sentence with a chance of parole isn't really a life sentence, is it?

I agree with Jeff in that there are some crimes by simply what they are that indicate the perpetrator was insane.    

Here's a stupid question.  If one would kill and attempt to decapitate his grandparents for attending a particular meeting who would be safe from  such a person?  This person needs to be removed from all possible access to the population at large.   

[The emperor has no clothes]

Take him to Syria and drop him from a plane to be with his buddies.   No chute though. 

Insane people should be executed the same as sane people (whether insane at the time of the crime or insane at trial, or both).  Screw PC, we don't have a human shortage.

We don't have an insane human shortage either. 

I didn't read the article. But I'm curious if you are serious about executing people who are truly insane ? And if so how about mentally handicapped people ?

Not sure from your sentence, but he is refering to just those who have committed heinous crimes, not ALL insane.  Myself, I am not sure.  Part of me says, no, they did not know what they were doing.  However, another part said they still killed someone, that person is dead, and many, many other loved ones are drastically affected by that one act.  Is it wrong to take the life of one who caused such untold misery and angst?

Yes, I should have phrased my sentence better. I'm not sure I'm ok with the executing people of diminished capacity, whether it be insane or retardation or a brain injury. I agree with Willow that a life sentence should be just that.

[Robert]

If an animal takes a human life dont we kill that animal? What hope, what change could happen in jail or life incarcerated? If you sentence anyone to jail you are not sending them to a place where they can be redeemed or changed or helped. You are sending them to a long protracted death at the expense of the tax payer. To a place where they warehouse a body with no hope cut off from every human contact and emotion that would support a life.  Why seclude the person further, with no help and then put him in with those that are there on lesser offenses, maybe to wreak havoc?

I genuinely hurt for people like this, we do not decide our lot in life sometimes and childhood trauma can ruin a person in many ways. We are not a civil society as much as we say we are, otherwise there would have been help for people like this before this happened. At the very least help for these people to bring them back from destruction once it did happen.

Each case is different, each has a reason, insanity is not an excuse for murder. Courts can decide on reasons and sentences but if we say a person who takes a life is just going to jail with 3 hots and a cot are we really discouraging murder?   

The article by Geller says Muslim convert trying to stir up Muslim hate. I wish on this case she had let it go, its a bad example, and may have been a person with a destroyed life picking up radical Islam and using that as the excuse to vent the rage in their heart. Death isn't that what Islam and people with these actions love, death?

Proverbs 8:36 But those who fail to find me harm themselves; all who hate me love death."

Maybe the issue is much deeper than we are seeing on the surface.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I have my doubts that someone who would commit murder would be deterred because of the difference between life and death.

[Mr Whiskey]

Capitol punishment doesn't work unless it's public.
Folks used to come "watch 'em swing" as cheap entertainment,
but the kiddies learned there were consequences for your actions.
Everyone in this day and age needs to be reminded IMHO.
It would be the #1 pay-per-view event ever, dontcha think?

[The emperor has no clothes]

Capitol punishment doesn't work unless it's public.
Folks used to come "watch 'em swing" as cheap entertainment,
but the kiddies learned there were consequences for your actions.
Everyone in this day and age needs to be reminded IMHO.
It would be the #1 pay-per-view event ever, dontcha think?

I could go the rest of my life without seeing another person die.

[Robert]

I have my doubts that someone who would commit murder would be deterred because of the difference between life and death.

Look at the statistics for 10/20/life and see what discourages some.

I understand the idea of not wanting another person to die but what do you think life in prison is? Its not different in fact its more human in some ways. But why wouldn't we do everything we can to discourage this kind of behavior? Just because someone does not have the stomach for punishment.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-20-Life

The 10-20-Life law (Florida Statute 775.087) is a mandatory minimum sentencing law in the U.S. state of Florida. It primarily regards the use of a firearm during the commission of a forcible felony. The law's name comes from a set of three basic minimum sentences it provides for.

An ongoing public service announcement campaign has accompanied the law since its passage under   the slogan, "Use a gun, and you're done.

According to the Florida Parole Commission (FPC), in 2000, there was a 26.4% decrease in violent, gun-related crime compared to 1998. Florida's "Index Crime" rate for 2000, which is based on a variety of different crimes, had dropped 18% from the previous year, and had reached its lowest level in 28 years.

Those who are insane may not be deterred by the law but that would make a death sentence easier wouldn't it? They knew the punishment yet still did the crime. It would define their mental state and their acceptance.

[98valk]

Capitol punishment doesn't work unless it's public.
Folks used to come "watch 'em swing" as cheap entertainment,
but the kiddies learned there were consequences for your actions.
Everyone in this day and age needs to be reminded IMHO.
It would be the #1 pay-per-view event ever, dontcha think?

and that is what they do in the muslim countries, even make the children watch, throwing people off of building, drowning and burning people alive while they are locked inside a small cage, etc.

[Gavin_Sons]

Capitol punishment doesn't work unless it's public.
Folks used to come "watch 'em swing" as cheap entertainment,
but the kiddies learned there were consequences for your actions.
Everyone in this day and age needs to be reminded IMHO.
It would be the #1 pay-per-view event ever, dontcha think?

  I agree and I'm pretty sure I have stated just this on some other posts. Then I was called barbaric and my feelings were hurt so I went to my safe place.  

[The emperor has no clothes]

I have my doubts that someone who would commit murder would be deterred because of the difference between life and death.

Look at the statistics for 10/20/life and see what discourages some.

I understand the idea of not wanting another person to die but what do you think life in prison is? Its not different in fact its more human in some ways. But why wouldn't we do everything we can to discourage this kind of behavior? Just because someone does not have the stomach for punishment.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-20-Life

The 10-20-Life law (Florida Statute 775.087) is a mandatory minimum sentencing law in the U.S. state of Florida. It primarily regards the use of a firearm during the commission of a forcible felony. The law's name comes from a set of three basic minimum sentences it provides for.

An ongoing public service announcement campaign has accompanied the law since its passage under   the slogan, "Use a gun, and you're done.

According to the Florida Parole Commission (FPC), in 2000, there was a 26.4% decrease in violent, gun-related crime compared to 1998. Florida's "Index Crime" rate for 2000, which is based on a variety of different crimes, had dropped 18% from the previous year, and had reached its lowest level in 28 years.

Those who are insane may not be deterred by the law but that would make a death sentence easier wouldn't it? They knew the punishment yet still did the crime.

I'm no expert on crimes. But I would think that pertains mostly to people committing crimes with a gun. Robbery, etc. I think most murders are probably a crime of passion in some way or another. I just don't see an irrational, deranged person being deterred by the difference. But like I say, I'm no expert.

[Robert]

I'm no expert on crimes. But I would think that pertains mostly to people committing crimes with a gun. Robbery, etc. I think most murders are probably a crime of passion in some way or another. I just don't see an irrational, deranged person being deterred by the difference. But like I say, I'm no expert.

Lets hope you never get to be one either.  

[Pete]

While deterrence before murder can be debated, the fact is that the execution of a murderer does deter them from murder again.

And until a life sentence means a life sentence perhaps execution is the only real solution.

As for an insanity plea for a murderer, that bucket holds no water with me, under any circumstances.  

[Skinhead]

 my feelings were hurt so I went to my safe place. 

I don't believe that!

[The emperor has no clothes]

I'm no expert on crimes. But I would think that pertains mostly to people committing crimes with a gun. Robbery, etc. I think most murders are probably a crime of passion in some way or another. I just don't see an irrational, deranged person being deterred by the difference. But like I say, I'm no expert.

Lets hope you never get to be one either.  

nice

[Roidfingers]

I think lets start showing an eye for an eye. In public, and on tv. let everyone know this time this place and then young kids can be monitored. We need to have a backbone. I'm 52, as things go. I'm sorry for those younger. Country is going to hell. Needs fast action for action. Long as its true.

[Roidfingers]

I believe all that murder are insane, at least during the act.

Capital punishment should be renamed, it's really not punishment at all merely insurance.

There needs to be changes to our system as it will never be perfect however, it is scriptural that one that murders be himself dealt with in kind by the hand of man.

like in the old days. Rob or steal from someone. No hands. No government assistance after . You chose the act. Deal with the consiquenses

[Jess from VA]

Not all murder merits a death sentence.  Historically, most murders are between family and friends, many in hot blood, an old common law exception to first degree murder for wives and husbands killing each other over love and hate (with a little, but not a lot of premeditation/planning, which is key).  

If while growing up, your mom shot your dad in the act of adultery, and you loved them both and were mad at your mom for what she did, you still wouldn't want her executed, and it would be in the best interest of the children that the surviving spouse not be executed (though she must do time).  

Many of these murderers are first offenders with no prior history of violence, and after serving their years of confinement often make the most reliable parolees who are determined to never sin/kill again.    (The opposite of career violent criminals)

My argument is about letting the insane (at the time of crime, and/or at the time of trial or at the time of execution) off the hook for a possible death penalty.  The insanity defense is rarely brought, and more rarely won; it gets more press than it deserves.  But it is a worthy subject.

Using this grandparents murderer/beheader as an example, the crime itself wreaks of insanity (many of the most terrible murders do, as nearly inexplicable), and although family members, this crime does not qualify for the hot blood husband/wife/lover exception to first degree murder.  With no other lawful defense, this is a death penalty case if I ever saw one, and I don't care if he's insane, as his State may define it.

The common law traditionally gave a very limited exception for insanity to one who could not (was mentally unable to) distinguish right from wrong and/or could not (was mentally unable to) conform his actions to the law.  But each state can define the criminal defense of insanity as it chooses, and many have made it more liberal, even the (in)famous irresistible impulse defense, as many have abolished the death sentence entirely.  I don't agree with that either.

I disagree with letting mental cases off the hook for a criminal conviction and death sentence automatically so long as they intentionally killed; not a reckless or negligent or accidental killing, an intentional, willful (or depraved heart - firing into a crowd) killing.  I don't care if their mental calculation/premeditation of arriving at murder is diminished from the norm.  If the crime is bad enough to warrant a death penalty in all other particulars, insanity should not let them off the hook (though any other available defenses would still apply).  

After conviction, the defendant is allowed to submit any evidence in extenuation and mitigation he may have to the sentencing authority, and that would include evidence of insanity or mental defectiveness, and if that sways the jury to give life rather than death, then so be it, but insanity should not be an automatic pass for criminal behavior, or murder.  Men, through their religion or ethics, may choose to forgive any man his crimes, but it is not the duty of the State to forgive (that should be left to the jury) but rather to enforce the rule of law (and murder should always be near the top of that list).

And if by the time of their execution they are slobbering idiots, I don't care about that either, so long as they have been lawfully convicted and sentenced.

There has been much written about deterrence (a relatively modern philosophy of criminal punishment, as opposed to pure societal retribution) and that the death penalty does not statistically seem to deter murder.  Well, in hot-blood-lover murders, it is not first degree (for a death penalty) anyway, and I would agree that the penalty would seem to have little deterrence for us murdering our wives and husbands in jealousy.  

But I don't care what any study may show, I believe career criminals (and even amateurs) are deterred by a state death penalty law that is routinely used and carried out.  And every murderer executed is deterred from ever doing it again (though not in jail awaiting execution, those are essentially free).  And if the method of execution was left at hanging, shooting, electrocuting or gassing (none of which are cruel or unusual), instead of the needle, it would be more deterrent yet.  

Societal retribution is also a meritorious reason for criminal punishment.  We authorize the State to punish on behalf of the victims, so the victims don't do it themselves (and thus create additional murder trials).  Of course, even with good and fair trials, the innocent can be convicted and sentenced. That is what appeals are for.  

Executing your worst first degree murderers (crazy or not) is good public policy.  Doing it inside of 5-7 years would be even better.  

 

[..]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/fbi-investigating-isis-inspired-knife-attack-virginia/story?id=41581213

[3fan4life]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/fbi-investigating-isis-inspired-knife-attack-virginia/story?id=41581213

I heard about this on the radio this AM.

This is local news, so I am sure that It will get plenty of media coverage.


I don't know anything about this guy.

The Ft. Hood shooter was from Roanoke as well.

I met him once and remember thinking that he was an asshole.

I'm fairly certain that my opinion of this guy would be the same.

[..]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1663357/british-woman-21-who-was-living-the-dream-travelling-abroad-is-stabbed-to-death-by-french-man-shouting-allahu-akbar-in-horrific-attack-at-australian-hostel/

[Wizzard]

I have my doubts that someone who would commit murder would be deterred because of the difference between life and death.

Look at the statistics for 10/20/life and see what discourages some.

I understand the idea of not wanting another person to die but what do you think life in prison is? Its not different in fact its more human in some ways. But why wouldn't we do everything we can to discourage this kind of behavior? Just because someone does not have the stomach for punishment.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-20-Life

The 10-20-Life law (Florida Statute 775.087) is a mandatory minimum sentencing law in the U.S. state of Florida. It primarily regards the use of a firearm during the commission of a forcible felony. The law's name comes from a set of three basic minimum sentences it provides for.

An ongoing public service announcement campaign has accompanied the law since its passage under   the slogan, "Use a gun, and you're done.

According to the Florida Parole Commission (FPC), in 2000, there was a 26.4% decrease in violent, gun-related crime compared to 1998. Florida's "Index Crime" rate for 2000, which is based on a variety of different crimes, had dropped 18% from the previous year, and had reached its lowest level in 28 years.

Those who are insane may not be deterred by the law but that would make a death sentence easier wouldn't it? They knew the punishment yet still did the crime.

I'm no expert on crimes. But I would think that pertains mostly to people committing crimes with a gun. Robbery, etc. I think most murders are probably a crime of passion in some way or another. I just don't see an irrational, deranged person being deterred by the difference. But like I say, I'm no expert.

If someone breaks into my house and I confront them with my 44 automag,, that's a deterrent.