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rhinor61
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« on: September 20, 2016, 07:56:40 AM » |
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Just a FYI if you ride in California... I do it all the time when the traffic slows or stops. It is optional.. you dont have to do it. Quoted from the LA TIMES. California's motorcyclists could soon have clear rules on lane splitting after the state became the first in the nation to formally legalize the practice.
Gov. Jerry Brown has signed legislation by Assemblyman Bill Quirk (D-Hayward) that defines the practice and authorizes the California Highway Patrol to establish rules for motorcyclists on how to do it safely.
Assemblyman Tom Lackey (R-Palmdale), a retired state highway patrol sergeant who co-wrote the bill, called the new law a "groundbreaking step."
"This is a huge win for roadway safety,” Lackey said in a statement. "We are now giving riders and motorists clear guidance on when it is safe."
Lane splitting, in which a motorcyclist passes other vehicles by riding between them along the lane line, has long been a controversial issue.
Technically, it has not been legal or illegal, falling in a gray area where it was treated as acceptable by law enforcement agencies. But when the CHP published guidelines on the practice in 2015, a citizen complained that the agency should not be allowed to create public policy. In came AB 51.
Quirk's original bill proposed that lane splitting could occur legally only when a motorcycle was moving no more than 15 mph faster than the traffic around it, and it prohibited the practice at speeds above 50 mph.
Several motorcyclists' groups objected to that, saying the limit was too low. Other groups and individuals, who believe that lane splitting is dangerous regardless of speed, objected to the proposal entirely.
The revised bill, which sailed through the legislative process, provides a basic definition of "lane splitting" and leaves the rest to the CHP. Quirk has said it has many benefits, including reducing traffic congestion and promoting safety.
"I am thrilled to see that California is once again at the forefront of common-sense road safety legislation,” Quirk said. "Signing of this bill will bring legitimacy to this practice and help to keep our roads safer and our drivers – both motorcyclists and motorists – better educated.”
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John
Northern California 1998 Valkyrie Tourer Black/jade VRCC #28001
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Gryphon Rider
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2000 Tourer
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« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2016, 08:56:02 AM » |
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Allowing the CHP to define what is and isn't legal lane splitting flies in the face of democracy. The legislators should accept or modify the CHP's recommendations, turning them into actual law, then have the courage to face the music from whoever objects.
At least California drivers are on notice that lane splitting is now legal.
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mark81
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« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2016, 09:15:19 AM » |
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I thought it had been legal in cali for a while now. maybe just an accepted practice not necessarily legal
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1997 Honda Valkyrie 1981 Honda CB750 Custom 
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MP
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1997 Std Valkyrie and 2001 red/blk I/S w/sidecar
North Dakota
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« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2016, 09:31:56 AM » |
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Allowing the CHP to define what is and isn't legal lane splitting flies in the face of democracy. The legislators should accept or modify the CHP's recommendations, turning them into actual law, then have the courage to face the music from whoever objects.
At least California drivers are on notice that lane splitting is now legal.
Why does allowing the CHP Officer leeway to decide if the MC rider is doing it safely, "fly in the face of democracy".? Use his judgement. Just like in "Careless", "Reckless", "too fast for conditions", etc. ALL those require judgement, why is this different, and undemocratic?
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 "Ridin' with Cycho"
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Gryphon Rider
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« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2016, 10:01:11 AM » |
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Allowing the CHP to define what is and isn't legal lane splitting flies in the face of democracy. The legislators should accept or modify the CHP's recommendations, turning them into actual law, then have the courage to face the music from whoever objects.
At least California drivers are on notice that lane splitting is now legal.
Why does allowing the CHP Officer leeway to decide if the MC rider is doing it safely, "fly in the face of democracy".? Use his judgement. Just like in "Careless", "Reckless", "too fast for conditions", etc. ALL those require judgement, why is this different, and undemocratic? Careless driving is usually charged when the driver causes an accident, or when the driver is obviously not showing due care, resulting in them not following the rules of the road. Reckless driving is typically a criminal offense that is tacked onto other charges. Without clear law regarding lane splitting, I don't know what is considered legal or illegal. I might be paying 100% attention and doing something perfectly safe in those conditions, but because I am travelling at a speed the CHP last week deemed legal and this week deems illegal, I am liable for a ticket. In a democracy, the lawmakers answer to the electorate, and the process of passing law is visible. Laws drafted by law enforcement agencies will be written to the advantage of law enforcement, not necessarily taking into account the rights of citizens or the difficulty or expense of understanding and complying with the law.
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Hooter
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« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2016, 11:27:25 AM » |
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You can't have a reckless and careless charge at the same time, it's double jeopardy. It's one or the other. There are definitely different characteristics that dictate each charge. There is nothing wrong with officer discretion, it's part of everyday law.
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« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 11:31:55 AM by Hooter »
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You are never lost if you don't care where you are!
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czuch
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« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2016, 12:27:27 PM » |
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Dear Lord. This has been legal ever since I can remember. When I was young and dumber, We would "Touch the buck" on the 405 as you came into La Jolla. Right where it rejoins the 5. Traffic time, 67 Sportster with 18" pipes. I wonder whet the statute of limitations is. Probably indefinite with some drivers who thought an ass kickin was just what we needed.
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Aot of guys with burn marks,gnarly scars and funny twitches ask why I spend so much on safety gear
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Gryphon Rider
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2000 Tourer
Calgary, Alberta
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« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2016, 12:32:39 PM » |
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You can't have a reckless and careless charge at the same time, it's double jeopardy. It's one or the other. There are definitely different characteristics that dictate each charge. There is nothing wrong with officer discretion, it's part of everyday law.
Officer discretion is, "Should I charge this guy with speeding because he's a little over the limit, or let him off with a warning?" Officer discretion is not, "Should the speed limit here be over or under what I clocked him at?"
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MP
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1997 Std Valkyrie and 2001 red/blk I/S w/sidecar
North Dakota
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« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2016, 11:56:44 PM » |
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You can't have a reckless and careless charge at the same time, it's double jeopardy. It's one or the other. There are definitely different characteristics that dictate each charge. There is nothing wrong with officer discretion, it's part of everyday law.
Officer discretion is, "Should I charge this guy with speeding because he's a little over the limit, or let him off with a warning?" Officer discretion is not, "Should the speed limit here be over or under what I clocked him at?" Tell me, how is this any different than " too fast for conditions"? I KNOW this has been issued in non accident cases. Officer discretion. I like the law this way. Depending on traffic conditions, road conditions, etc., there are times when 5 mph faster than the traffic might be dangerous, and other times 15 mph over traffic speed might be perfectly fine. I will trust the officer to make the judgement the vast majority of the time. I understand that you do not trust your officers.
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 "Ridin' with Cycho"
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Gryphon Rider
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2000 Tourer
Calgary, Alberta
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« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2016, 04:08:24 AM » |
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You can't have a reckless and careless charge at the same time, it's double jeopardy. It's one or the other. There are definitely different characteristics that dictate each charge. There is nothing wrong with officer discretion, it's part of everyday law.
Officer discretion is, "Should I charge this guy with speeding because he's a little over the limit, or let him off with a warning?" Officer discretion is not, "Should the speed limit here be over or under what I clocked him at?" Tell me, how is this any different than " too fast for conditions"? I KNOW this has been issued in non accident cases. Officer discretion. I like the law this way. Depending on traffic conditions, road conditions, etc., there are times when 5 mph faster than the traffic might be dangerous, and other times 15 mph over traffic speed might be perfectly fine. I will trust the officer to make the judgement the vast majority of the time. I understand that you do not trust your officers. I trust ER doctors and nurses to save my life if I crash my motorcycle. I don't trust them to write legislation about protective equipment for motorcyclists. I trust environmentalists to take a stand against pollution and destruction of habitat. I don't trust them to write legislation to balance the perceived needs of the planet against the needs of the economy and the freedom of people. I trust LEOs to enforce the law. I don't trust them to write it.
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Hooter
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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2016, 04:24:37 AM » |
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You are right about writing the law, but laws are written with the help of law enforcement. The FOP, POAM and the like assist in legislation. Laws like rules are written to protect people from themselves and are typically derived out of bad behavior or consistent problems.
Who better to assist in these areas than someone from the trenches? That's where I want my information coming from. No matter if it's LE or goat roapin I want someone that's been there making decisions pertaining to important issues for me. Not some suit wearing inexperienced cooler jockey making decisions that affect everyday life . It's obvious no one will change your views which is fine. But officers use discretion all the time weather it's a traffic case or a felony issue.
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« Last Edit: September 21, 2016, 04:33:27 AM by Hooter »
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You are never lost if you don't care where you are!
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woofred1832
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My Valkyrie
northern Ill near fox lake
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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2016, 05:02:22 AM » |
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Lane cutting, I think is ok in Ill. also but not for me, ive seen toooo many rides get cut off and or, just get pushed because of some car driver saying, oh no your not gettig by ME!!!!!!.not worth the chance just to get afew more cars in the mirrors......... I would rather ride safe........ most would agree. Except for the young and stupid. ?....
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Gryphon Rider
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« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2016, 06:11:05 AM » |
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You are right about writing the law, but laws are written with the help of law enforcement. The FOP, POAM and the like assist in legislation. Laws like rules are written to protect people from themselves and are typically derived out of bad behavior or consistent problems.
Who better to assist in these areas than someone from the trenches? That's where I want my information coming from. No matter if it's LE or goat roapin I want someone that's been there making decisions pertaining to important issues for me. Not some suit wearing inexperienced cooler jockey making decisions that affect everyday life . It's obvious no one will change your views which is fine. But officers use discretion all the time weather it's a traffic case or a felony issue.
Quirk's original bill proposed that lane splitting could occur legally only when a motorcycle was moving no more than 15 mph faster than the traffic around it, and it prohibited the practice at speeds above 50 mph.
Several motorcyclists' groups objected to that, saying the limit was too low. Other groups and individuals, who believe that lane splitting is dangerous regardless of speed, objected to the proposal entirely.
The revised bill, which sailed through the legislative process, provides a basic definition of "lane splitting" and leaves the rest to the CHP. This indicates that the legislators listened to the experts, then thought, "Eek! If we do this thing, this group will be mad at us. If we do the other thing, that other group will be mad at us. Let's just pass the buck on to the 'experts', the CHP." Then they all congratulated themselves for their clever laziness, and went on to the next issue. Let the experts ASSIST the legislators write the legislation, then let the people's representatives vote on it openly. Letting the CHP write the rules of the road is like letting the IRS write tax law; they're the experts, after all.
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Daddie O
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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2016, 07:26:41 AM » |
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People that don't live in California usually do not get it when it comes to lane splitting. It is legal here, and always has been. Police, motorcyclists, and cagers are all used to lane splitting. The reasons that lane splitting is a good idea are numerous, that's why it is allowed and even encouraged. The cagers are used to it, and they aren't a bunch of jerks trying to hurt motorcyclists. They realize that motorcyclists moving through traffic efficiently actually lessens traffic, and helps the cagers get to their destination faster than if they cutoff a rider while thinking "they aren't getting in front of ME!" If they see you lane splitting they most often move to the side a to give you a little more room.
As far as police discretion on the matter of lane splitting, it is not a case of police arbitrarily deciding if it's a good idea or not based on unknown criteria. If traffic is moving at 20 mph and you whiz by doing 60, it's not safe. A driver (or rider) being unsafe or reckless is pretty obvious. Police here aren't looking to give you a ticket for riding like a jerk unless you are riding like a jerk.
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Light moves faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
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rhinor61
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« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2016, 08:57:02 PM » |
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Daddie O..
Lane-splitting in California was just NEVER illegal. There as not a law that forbids it like the other states.
That is the purpose of this post and the signing of AB51, is to spell out that a 2-wheel motorcycle can share the lane with another vehicle.. And a motorcycle can keep moving if the other vehicles have slowed or stopped. Which spells out that it LEGAL.. but of course there will be some kind of speed restrictions.
There are plenty of cyclists that do not ride safe, going 30+ mph faster than the flow of traffic, or like yesterday a Harley riding down the center median causing havoc (which is still illegal) on Highway 99S.
I was up in Washington state last summer, traffic was awful, the poor motorcyclist has to just sit there... it was exhausting watching them go thru traffic. very slowly.
Ride ON...
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John
Northern California 1998 Valkyrie Tourer Black/jade VRCC #28001
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F-six
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« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2016, 10:44:40 PM » |
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Here in Holland lane splitting is allowed, just because it is not forbidden to share a lane. But there is a rule of thumb: the motorcyclists always goes between the most left lane and the lane on the right side of the most left lane. So between the third and the second lane if the freeway is three ways wide, or between the fourth and third lane if the freeway is four lanes wide. That way the drivers in cars always know where to expect motorcyclists coming through. That works pretty good. Sure, you have the proverbial a$$ who tries to cut me of, but most of them moving away a bit so I can pass.
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TallRider
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« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2016, 05:54:45 PM » |
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1951 HD FLH Chopped 1978 Honda Goldwing 2005 VTX 1800 2014 Honda Valkyrie
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baldo
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Youbetcha
Cape Cod, MA
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« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2016, 06:07:29 PM » |
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Those smart cars are SO TINY.....
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J.Mencalice
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"When You're Dead, Your Bank Account Goes to Zero"
Livin' Better Side of The Great Divide
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« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2016, 06:38:22 PM » |
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Those smart cars are SO TINY..... Blunt force trauma. A woman in one of those got hit by a full sized pickup truck when she turned in front of it just the other day. It was a mess. A rolling coffin is what those things are; no protection whatsoever. Save a gallon, lose your life. No thank you. http://www.nbc11news.com/content/news/Crews-investigate-crash-at-29-Road-Riverside-Pkwy-393968661.htmlLived in L.A. for four years and never entertained getting on a motorcycle, not even a test drive. The odds were never in your favor anywhere in SSC. Lane splitting there would put you on the yellow lane-divider dots and I just can't figure how that would work out for good control. Road grime, grease, oil, mixed with any kind of moisture brings them to a condition that would resemble riding on ball bearings. Besides, the way things are trending these days, it won't be long before we'll be reading of an "incident" where someone bites it from a door opening, a baseball bat being stuck out, or a piping hot latte flying from a window. Oh well, that's L.A.!!
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« Last Edit: September 22, 2016, 06:55:22 PM by Willopad357 »
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"The truth is, most of us discover where we are headed when we arrive." Bill Watterson
Prudence, Justice, Fortitude, Temperance...
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GiG
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"That's just like, your OPINION, Man!"
NEAR the "In 'n' Out Burger"
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« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2016, 06:43:15 AM » |
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Lane cutting, I think is ok in Ill. also but not for me, ive seen toooo many rides get cut off and or, just get pushed because of some car driver saying, oh no your not gettig by ME!!!!!!.....
I wish it was more accepted, but most drivers have that competitive mind set and would intentionally injure a cyclist for sport
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Everything is - Nothing is .
When you come to a fork in the road - TAKE IT! (send it to OSS)
This isn’t Rocket Surgery
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rhinor61
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« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2016, 10:52:11 AM » |
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Just be clear...
The California Vehicle code now reads.
SECTION 1. Section 21658.1 is added to the Vehicle Code, to read: 21658.1. (a) For the purposes of this section, “lane splitting” means driving a motorcycle, as defined in Section 400, that has two wheels in contact with the ground, between rows of stopped or moving vehicles in the same lane, including on both divided and undivided streets, roads, or highways.
so splitting is for 2 wheel motorcycles, not trikes, or microcars.
next, it's not legal in Illinois, Florida or anywhere else in the United States, with a few exception where emergency vehicles can do it.
be safe and ride on.
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John
Northern California 1998 Valkyrie Tourer Black/jade VRCC #28001
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F-six
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« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2016, 12:14:26 PM » |
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That is a somewhat funny comment coming from a motorcyclist, who enjoys no protection whatsoever from his bike! I guess it would be a messy situation too if you suddenly turned your bike in front of a full size pickup truck. Those Smarts are actually pretty good when you live in a city. But then again, LA.... I'll never forget that I rode my bike from Miami to the west coast. Was humming along quite nicely for six weeks. Then I had to enter the 5 at San Juan Capistrano, northbound. That was a wakeup call! A short ramp, you don't get any room to merge, non whatsoever, terrible road conditions, in short, a terrifying experience! Don't let anyone tell you about the cool laidback Californians, not on the 5 freeway! 
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J.Mencalice
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"When You're Dead, Your Bank Account Goes to Zero"
Livin' Better Side of The Great Divide
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« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2016, 01:55:24 PM » |
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That is a somewhat funny comment coming from a motorcyclist, who enjoys no protection whatsoever from his bike! I guess it would be a messy situation too if you suddenly turned your bike in front of a full size pickup truck. Those Smarts are actually pretty good when you live in a city. But then again, LA.... I'll never forget that I rode my bike from Miami to the west coast. Was humming along quite nicely for six weeks. Then I had to enter the 5 at San Juan Capistrano, northbound. That was a wakeup call! A short ramp, you don't get any room to merge, non whatsoever, terrible road conditions, in short, a terrifying experience! Don't let anyone tell you about the cool laidback Californians, not on the 5 freeway!  Thanks for the opinion, but with 48 years of riding under my tailbone, I'm well aware of all that is associated with the trials and tribulations of navigating motorcycles in rural and urban death zone environments. So, my comment was only associated to my thousands of non-motorcycling hours driving automobiles, pickup trucks, fire trucks and commercial trucks. I don't know why they're called "Smart Cars" as when I observe one of them desperately trying to maintain 75-80 MPH on our American urban freeways, I think to myself that the persons driving them must have some sort of subconscious death wish. A gusty crosswind out here could render them like Arte Johnson's tricycle bit on "Laugh-In". I don't think that they'd sell well in Wyoming; I once saw one out on I-70 in western Nebraska and laughed out loud when it got blitzed by three tractor trailers at 80 MPH. I thought, "You are wayyy over your head there, buddy." Yes, I'd much prefer to be on my motorcycle (with it's less than survivable associated statistics) and a complete, rotational view of area around me, superb maneuverability, acceleration capabilities; over a crushed sub-subcompact as pictured in the news story. I'd rather be dead instantaneously and scooped up with a shovel than impaled on a steering column, gasping for life while waiting for extrication from a crushed can. I just believe there are safer, better, comparably priced options in America than those type of European based cars. I hope this extended explanation clarifies it all from my point of view and experiences as a former firefighter/EMT; it's just not fun to roll up on a scene like that one. She made the fatal mistake of the left turn in front of oncoming vehicle that didn't stop. Maybe she was blinded by the sunrise and didn't have the horsepower to accelerate away; maybe she miscalculated the speed of the pickup; maybe she was on a cellphone or texting; maybe she was fixing her hair in the mirror. Who knows? Fact is, she and her Smart Car were no match for a pickup that was probably traveling at 45-55 MPH. We've all had those close calls happen to us at one time or another. Usually they turn out good and we pray that next one doesn't turn out bad, because that is all it takes is...one.
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« Last Edit: September 23, 2016, 02:14:42 PM by Willopad357 »
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"The truth is, most of us discover where we are headed when we arrive." Bill Watterson
Prudence, Justice, Fortitude, Temperance...
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TallRider
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« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2016, 05:55:06 PM » |
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Hmmm!!! Stopped or "Moving" does that mean if on freeway 55 or 70 2 cars running side by side 45 a guy in a crotch rocket zooms through at speed. I can just see the road rage if they do it to the wrong person. Kind of like the Auto Bon in Germany 
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1951 HD FLH Chopped 1978 Honda Goldwing 2005 VTX 1800 2014 Honda Valkyrie
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