Speaking of Cars

[dreamaker]

What are your feelings, concerning today’s cars or vehicles.  To me, a car keeps the wind out of my face, the rain off my head, and gets me from point “A” to point “B”.
 They told us in the past when they incorporated robotics in production, telling us it would make cars more affordable, which I never seen happen.  I have a newer Focus, I like small vehicles, but all the crap and peoples useless personal science projects they in them, makes me shiver when I think of it ever having to take in for repair. And you can’t get a stripped down model like back in the “70’s.  Simple car cost as much as a house these days, and the prices are soaring, on TV they said a Volt starts at $37,000+ for base car. The crap they put in these cars just makes us lazy, contributes to poor health, obese and financially broke!  The thing that really gets my blood boiling is some of the accessories that compensate for people negligent.  Think about it!! First if you can’t parallel park you should be driving, because you don’t know how to control your car. Emergency stop, you’re kidding right! You suppose to be watching the road and scanning the mirrors to know what is going on around you.  They have a truck load of alarms, some are OK, but some compensate for driver incompetence, lane drift, blind spot, forget to brake and so on.  People don’t want to come to the reality that vehicles’ are like weapons and need to be treated with respect and accountability for its application.  These are not LazyBoys or four-wheel entertainment center or a social center; these are weapons and can hurt yourself or other people.  All these are supposed to do, is replace the horse and carriage, not distract and become someone’s science project and lethal weapon.  Now we are going to create a new generation of anatomical cars, and devices to make us more incompetent then we can be.  Great idea! Now we can hit and run or damage others property and have a good excuse and have something else to blame, than ourselves. Don’t get me wrong, I love cars, but I just don’t like what Dr. Frankenstein has done to them at our expense.
Keep one thing in mind, there is no excuse for stupidity!!!

[G-Man]

I think cars can sometimes be considered works of art.  In the past, a new or tweaked version of a car model was done every year.  "That's a 58 because it has 4 headlights." or "That's a 61, see the crease down the side?".  Nowadays, they use the same thing for 8 years before changing it up. 

Over the years there have been some really nice production models and some amazing customs that can be considered works of art, and their builders called artists.  Coddington, Foose, and the like are true artists that have created true art.

BTW, I really like the blindspot warning light in my sideview mirror.  I agree that some of the gadgets can be distracting, at first.  Have the new car for about 5 months now and have become more accustom to where things are and which method of accessing them should be used when.  Most things you access on the screen can be accessed right from the steering wheel or by knobs below the screen.  The screen is great for presets, then you can use the steering wheel controls for almost everything.

Work of art:

[hukmut]

I really enjoyed my 1963 VW. It had a gas gauge and a full ragtop sunroof that had a handle to open it.

[dreamaker]

For everyday use, the way I see it, art belong on the wall, not on the road.  I don't know how it is in your area, but in the Detroit Metro, they hit and run like it is the new fashion statement. Many accidents and can't figure out why it happened, it didn't make sense. I am not against convince or enjoying some luxury, but when people become the targets, I have to try and use common sense. Technology if fine as long as it is always a tool not a necessity, because it will turn on you. Also there is an old saying, "I you don't use it, you loose it"  Do you recall how to use a slide rule, they don't use batteries, or do long math and so on. So now cars are trying to do our thinking and if they screw up, guess who pays. Like I said I am not against it, I use it and built it all the time, I just use it as a tool, and feel it has it own place in our lives. I built my first car I owned from scratch, "24 " Ford T Roadster" so I have a good understanding of cars.

[Master Blaster]

It is nothing more than conditioning.  The ultimate aim is self driving vehicles, and you will be nothing but a passenger.  Then it will be no self owned vehicles.  They can't bring it all on at once, you have to be gradually conditioned to it.  Change is not always good.

[cookiedough]

I am 110% in agreement on all the unnecessary items/gadgets put on vehicles lately.  Is a money maker is all to the mfg.  

We can all do our part and NOT buy the top of the line model and once that happens, mfgs. will stop building them, but people like my neighbor who buys the TOP of the line model are not going away.  

He paid around 32K for the top of the line mazda CX-5 small SUV because he HAD TO HAVE the BOSE stereo system and other gadgets which is NUTS.  At the time,  my mid-level trim new full sized truck cost just a tad bit more than that is all.  

I have been buying new cars every 2-4 years regularly since the 90's and unfortunately will not be doing it as often lately.  The trend on upscale vehicles has surpassed my level of paying comfort since every year the increase is around 3% for basically nothing more than a cosmetic change here and there.  Actually,  most mfgs. have CUT corners in areas that count for useful items to have vs. adding useless accessories that just make the mfg. money is all.  

I now almost buy exclusively the BASE model with maybe the popular eqmt. group if available like fog lights/pwr. drivers seat or at most mid-level trim to get what I REALLY NEED and find useful.  I do like though my backup camera when hooking up the trailer avoids several trips in/out of my truck or the dreaded hitting the trailer tongue to the back of my truck for damage, but that came standard on the mid-level trim.   I wanted and desired a power sliding rear window on my truck but the mfg. was stupid and decided to NOT offer it on the mid-level trim without having the off road package as well which I will never buy again is a 1K package that offers no real value to me besides a rougher ride and more money out of my pocket.  How stupid is that?  

If mfgs. keep increasing the price of their vehicles year after year near 3% (near 1 grand almost),  who the heck will be able to afford these things much longer?  New trucks use to cost me mid to upper 20's some 10+ years ago,  now are for base / mid level trim pushing the upper 30's for purchase price.    10K increase in 10+ years is becoming too rich for my blood.  

This is due I believe mostly to the younger generation wanting more and more gadgets on their vehicles to 'help them' drive better the way I see it since they cannot do it themselves for the most part.  

I did get my wife hooked though on the base model of our SUV having power heated dual cloth bucket seats in front for cold winter driving.   She said she will not get another vehicle without them.  If they did not have on our SUV as standard eqmt. though,  she would not have gotten it since normally most heated seats are or were in years past ONLY on upgraded trim level having leather seats, which we will NEVER get.   Our other car new we bought I did not do enough research on though since if I could find one left on lot end of year closeout pricing,  being the base model,  there was a popular eqmt. package I wish I would have got which had fog lamps (dims for lighting suck at night time without fog lamps), drivers power seat, and dual cloth heated front seats for 900 bucks extra msrp.  I feel for 750-800 bucks cost for fog lamps,  dual heated cloth front bucket seats, and a power drivers seat is worth about 250 bucks each in cost since 3 useful to me options.  

[solo1]

I have owned many cars going back to 1947 and a '29 Chevy.  

Cars have changed, mostly for the better. Gas mileage now that was unheard of, safer, lighter, more power, etc.  Disadvantages are the complexity with computers, inability of the owner to do much of anything. I also believe that the trend is to make cars 'idiot proof'. Can't be done.  Now people buy influenced by accessories like frontal warning, GPS, back up cameras, sat radio, and all the comforts and things to keep them out of trouble, except while texting.

I've done a compromise.  My 2013 Mazda Six doesn't have much in accessories (less to go wrong) but works ok for me.

My 2002 Mazda Miata MX5 has none of those things, not even ABS.  Just a six speed manual tranny and fun to drive and drive it you must!   Wouldn't be of much use up there around the sand back roads but that's ok. It sure beats the heck out of the old British sports cars in reliability and handling.

[cookiedough]

If these take off and are not disposable only lasting 3-4 years is all,  this is something to think about for dailing commuting that if reliable and will last several years?  Name one car new or even for that matter used under 10K?

I did test drive a few years ago an el-cheapo base chevy aveo dinky 4 cylinder (or was it 3 cylinder?) for our daughter to have to drive, but after one test drive,  felt it was made very poorly and still over 14K new in pricing when I felt 10K would be pushing it for value for the money.  Man, that thing sounded like a herd of chipmunks when stepping on the gas going NOWHERE fast. 

https://www.eliomotors.com/

For under 8K or so I do not expect much, but is still cheaper by almost 1/2 of any new car built today.  I paid 1K for my used 250cc scooter and if it was not for the rain and winter weather,  I would be driving that near daily all the time all over except the interestate,  why not?  I do not need a 40K commuter vehicle to get me where I am going most of the time. 

[dreamaker]

I am not saying you are a fool or a bad person because you like the extras, your paying for it , so go for it. The only thing I wish they would do, is offer a totally stripped down version of a new vehicle, and get the longevity as a Valkyrie, 200k, 300k, and maybe 400k, in my dreams Right!

[baldo]

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1373941105979943

[Hooter]

Tupperware coffins on wheels. Get much smaller they will all be the equivalent of clown cars.

[old2soon]

94 Olds with 215600 something on the clock. 3.8 V-6 4 speed automagical with O/D. NOT nickel and dimeing me to death so I'll keep it. Just passed inspection this week so I'm good fer 2 more years. STILL gits bout 22 M P G around town and 28-30 on the highway. And WHEN it dies probably gonna cry a bit!  The A/C will git ANYONES nipples hard an the heater can raise a sweat on ya!  Far as all that whiz bang gimcrakeree goes-how frikkin MUCH it gonna cost to get it right again WHEN-Not IF-but WHEN it goes tits up??  I go back to filing and resetting plugs and points on a nice Saturday afternoon. Here where I live I am fortunate to have a GOOD and RELIABLE and Resonable mechanic for my cage.  I wrench on the Phatt Ghurl. Tried real hard to buy my neighbors 96 Olds when he had problems with it but he fixed it up for his son. RIDE SAFE.

[Jersey mike]

Oldmobiles were good cars especially their full size line.

Their 60's & 70's Cutlass were some great muscle cars too.

It was a shame what happened to that company.

[Oss]

my old 57 olds super 88, the 1930's Packards I saw at Wheels thru Time, 1967 Wildcat coupe, 1968 Camaro, 1969 Mach1 (with the shaking hood scoop), the DeLorean, vw bus, 63 vette with split window, some of the old studebakers bullet noses they were called

Many thousands of folks worked really hard to bring us these machines

I just hope someday, not to far in the future, there will be more jobs for the next generation to build the cars that are art in this country.

I dont so much mind ford building cars overseas if they are sold in europe or asia or africa, but I want to see cars built here for here in north america and them NOT to close plants.  kudos for toyota and some other companies for investing in our labor force here.

[dreamaker]

I guess if you put it that way, I guess I would rather drive  someones piece of art, not someones science project, like we do today and in the future. Also while your at it bring back those past car prices, not home prices.

[cookiedough]

I guess if you put it that way, I guess I would rather drive  someones piece of art, not someones science project, like we do today and in the future. Also while your at it bring back those past car prices, not home prices.

No joke there for sure.  I know in the early 1970's my parents bought the current house my mom still lives in costing 17K total back then when I was like 1 year old moving in or so.  heck,  17K is 1/2 a vehicle in some cases nowadays with some vehicles pushing 40K to purchase.  To me, that 40K new car price is 1/2 a house, well almost, more like 1/3rd the cost of a house.     

[Robert]

What bothers me about cars today,

 The fact that all those bells and whistles come with a big price tag on purchase and repair.

The fact when they install those bells and whistles the cost to repair can outweigh the cost of the car.

That they dont engineer these things with repair costs and longevity in mind

That most new cars look very similar and the price is very high on some cars

That if you have a problem with your car it could be software related and not actual mechanical parts.  

That air bags can deploy and make a car scrap since repair would exceed the value of the car.

That there is not mechanical switches or linkage like the early cars to turn on headlights and to accelerate and that as the driver you can easily be overridden in the decision making process.

That transmissions today are super expensive to repair and sometimes crap. Both in their designed operation and the ability to repair.

That paint cannot be made to endure the life of the car.

That cooling systems are not designed to last the life of the car.

That emission systems are expensive.

Plastic parts do not hold up this includes some wiring harness insulation.

Resale value can be nothing since there is no longevity to cars and no one wants an electrical nightmare.

I know of a case the guy bought a new car for 95k and 5 years later the dealer offered him 19k on a car with 50k on the odometer in good condition. It cost him 70k to drive the car for 5 years 


Now there are many pluses in the new car designs and I would not want to own an older car for comfort, power, acceleration, body stiffness handling the new cars beat the older cars hands down. But it comes with a price tag and repair cost that is my major objection. Not to mention the new cars just dont have the style of the older cars although some are pretty cool.

We the consumer pay for things that should not have left the design floor that are perfected on the general population. One last point restriction on selling parts to anyone not in that dealership.

[hukmut]

Here is maybe one point to consider: the powers that be want to keep us in debt.

I know, conspiracy theorist!

I owe nobody any thing, monetarily speaking.

No car payment, no mortgage, Nada. I am probably in the extreme minority.

And enjoying it.




Ride safe, y'all...

[Wizzard]

I dont owe anything either,, great feeling.

As to cars,, I have a 2013 lincoln MKZ with every option you can get including self parallel parking and AWD. I don't drive it that much as wife uses it and I like my F150 ,, but we love the car.

[Willow]

If you don't like late model cars don't buy one.  I don't go to the department store and buy things I don't want.

For a cage I drive a 1998 (or is it 1997? I get confused.) Mazda pickup with 214,000 on the odometer.  The air conditioner hasn't worked for years.  The alarm that's supposed to indicate a key left in or the lights on goes off whenever the driver's door is opened.  The only things I've fixed on it are things that keep it from running.

When it dies I might buy myself a newer machine with fancier gizmos but if I do it will be because I want it, not because I feel a need to impress the neighbors.  If there are things on the newer vehicles that I don't want to pay for I'll probably just buy an older used vehicle.

[Gryphon Rider]

When my '81 GMC pickup, which my wife is embarrassed to drive because of the rust and mismatched driver's door, gives up the ghost, I plan to replace it with a '69-'72 Chevy half ton.  Many who hear this, including Sandra, shake their heads.

When our '96 Saturn (purchased new, now with 520,000 km) needs replacing, we'll likely get something newer.  How new can I go and still do most work myself?

[Robert]

How skilled are you? The problem is the mechanical end has advanced but the electronic end is the real problem. Any module replaced after say 99 or 2000 has to be programed so it becomes an electronics issue even in the diagnosis. Without a scanner you are going to have a hard time even determining the problem. The check engine light will comes on with a loose gas cap, so you have a light on and dont have a scanner where are you going to start? OK so maybe you do have a scanner in another scenario and it says the 02 sensor is out of range and you replace it and you get the same code back a short time later what are you going to do? These examples are only 2 of many possible scenarios that are seen on a regular basis. ABS module is 1k and to program is another 200.00 ok so you go to the junk yard and pick one up for 200 install it and the lights are still on. Erase the codes and the unit needs to be programed, ok so to the dealer. Dealer calls cannot program the unit may need to be changed out again. Just some of the new frustrations that are happening.

[hubcapsc]

Resale value can be nothing since there is no longevity to cars and no one wants an electrical nightmare.


In 1970 our nice 1964 1/2 convertible Mustang was good for trading in on a 1970 Galaxie 500...

My 2005 Mini Cooper has 165,000 miles on it, and is still awesome, but it wouldn't
be without regular maintenance at the dealer...

I've never had a new car before the Mini, a lot has changed in the last ten years.

-Mike "surely someone still makes a flip-phone car"

[cookiedough]

Resale value can be nothing since there is no longevity to cars and no one wants an electrical nightmare.


resale/trade in value means a lot to me if I want to continue trading in every 3-4 years or so, which may  not be the case as often as in years past the way things are going. 

Back in the heyday 1990's,  I was trading in new chevy silverado's every 6 months to 1 year getting the GM employee discount which was almost 20% off msrp, then all the rebates as well.   I was actually either breaking even on trade in value vs. buying next model year chevy silverado or only out less than 1 grand all the time.  Eventually,  the market got flooded with near new GM trucks  only 1 year old under 15K miles plus the GM employee discount went way down as well,  enough so dealers are offering GM employee pricing to non-GM customers like once a year or so.   

I try to buy vehicles I want to drive as well as high trade in value or at least above average resale value.  So far,  those vehicles have been Toyota as well as Honda's which besides my HOnda Valkyrie, have never bought a Honda vehicle.  My Hyundai vehicles, although not great trade in/resale value, the price paid for what I get is better than most plus they, knock on wood, have been reliable, trouble free vehicles. 

I have been looking at the new Honda Ridgeline since could possibly tow my 4500lb. trailer loaded down, but paying near full msrp sticker price is NOT going to happen until they become less popular since right now, local dealers are selling them as soon as loaded off the truck for full msrp.  NO thanks, not that desperate.  The price of these mid sized trucks like the newly designed Honda Ridgeline and Toyota Tacoma,  might as well just buy full sized since darn near same price to purchase.

I once bought a Toyota Corolla 2009 new for 16.5K and near 3 years later and 32K miles,   I got trade in value of 13K at a Hyundai dealer for a new Hyundai Santa Fe 3.5L V6, ,  not too shabby 3.5K depreciation in over 30K miles.  I saw a week later they were asking 15.9K for it - NUTS - only asking 600 less than a new one?  Who in their right mind would pay that much used?

The problem I have been finding if wanting a 2-3 year old used vehicle, the local dealers want almost as much used with 30K miles or more on them as just going out and buying new.  I wanted to buy for my then 16 year old daughter a used 2-3 year old toyota corolla but at 14K used vs. 17K new,  I bit the bullet and bought new hyundai sonata for 17.7K.  I tried finding a good used hyundai sonata 2-3 years old but at the time dealers would not budge off of 15K, so just figured for 2.5K more,  just buy new one with full 5 year/60K mile warranty vs. one with only 2 years left and 20K miles for warranty.

I do not know how dealers sell used 2-3 year old vehicles only 1-3K less than brand new and most are out of 36K mile warranty already.  My neighbor wanted me to tag along to a Ford dealer to check out the all new F150 and saw on their lot a used 2014 Toyota tundra crewmax SR5 with over 30K miles on it.  New,  that was 39K out the door price paid for it and dealer was asking 38.5K.  I informed them that is almost brand new purchase pricing and salesman said NO way.  Whatever dude!  Guess what,  some 2 months later that tundra is still sitting on their Ford lot not sold when it should sell for in my opinion 35k top end. 

Either I am a horrible negotiator on used vehicles, but my experience on every used vehicle I was interested in,  the dealer would not even go down to average dealer resale pricing always was either off the charts or at the high end of what the car is worth NOT budging much off the sticker/asking price.   Are people really that stupid to buy a 2-3 year old car for only 1-3K less than buying brand new?    You know the dealer paid several 1000's less (most cases over 5K less) than their asking price  on used vehicles.  I am willing to give them some money, but if buying new,  dealers really do not make much off of a new vehicle sale, holdback money is about it since I pay dealer invoice pricing 9 times out of 10 or tad bit less than that, depending on my trade in price they give me.

[dreamaker]

Today at work, they brought in an all aluminum Faraday electric half body to structurally setup for crash testing.  Surprising how structurally beefy it is, but where I live, salt just love those aluminum bodies. So it came to me, all these high dollar vehicles aren’t made to last, especially the electric cars. Think about it!!  You don’t what to spend the money for a brand new car; you go to the used car lot. Correct me if I am wrong, but I have been told if one of those batteries goes bad, you replace the whole battery cell, I was told they cost around $15k for the cell.  So, what the future of cars amount to, is high dollar disposable cars. Not go to the used car lot, but go to the crusher, and used cars will be something of the past.  “Hey Grandpa! Did you ever buy one of those used gas burning cars?”

[cookiedough]

regarding comment above:  My neighbor has a 2006 Prius and his OEM batteries were going wacko and stranding them off and on not safe to consider driving daily.  REfurbished main batteries have come down in price since the earlier years.  A local based small company specializiing in replacing hybrid battery cars like the prius replaced all the batteries with refurbished ones guaranteed no questions asked for 3 full years  unlimited mileage for 2500 dollars and he even came to his home and replaced them all in one day in a few hours.  I guess new OEM ones were 3500 dollars total but only a 1 year mfg. warranty is all.  He stands behind the refurbished batteries for 3 full years so he went that route.  ONLY time will tell if they last another 3 years but the owner said he has had good luck with them lasting more than 5 years.   He has 180K on the 2006 prius so he does not plan on keeping it more than 3-4 more years so for 2500 was not too bad of an expense considering that is the first thing that has gone wrong with the car. 

Considering the car when running is like worth 5-6K though,  spending 2500 might sound like a lot?  However,  as it sat NOT working properly,  I doubt he could have gotten 2500 for it as it sat not running so 2500 spent was not out anything more if sold as is plus 2500 in expense is better than spending 16K or so on a good used car again being much more expensive and his kids are going to be outta the house in a few more years so will not need that car after 3-4 more years anyways.

[dreamaker]

Doesn't Honda have one like the Prius!  I don't imagine vehicles like a Volt, Tesla, and Ford Electric Focus, batteries will cost a little more than $2500.