Pure Evil and hillary wants to bring them here

[hukmut]

Descended from "wild asses". Look it up.

[98valk]

I wouldn't accept anyone that did not accept and abide by our laws. I would accept women and children that we could save from rape, torture, and death.

I would invite every big hearted American that believes we should bring all these folks into our country to host a family or two into their homes and adopt or sponsor them.   Be my guest.     IOWs, go for it.  

But, by doing so, those adopting Americans should accept responsibility for the adoptees just as if they were getting a new born adopted child and all that goes along with that.  

Some are doing it.  My church is doing it, although my personal involvement has thus far been minimal.  We have sponsored a family consisting of a father, a mother, two young girls, and a toddler boy.  We have rented and furnished a modest home, and our members see them regularly to visit with them and help them negotiate and transition into our society.

bible doesn't promote welfare which your church is doing for them.
just remember this is their cult beliefs.
http://britishfreepress.com/world-news/pakistani-father-beat-his-own-daughter-to-death-because-she-couldnt-bake-perfect-bread

[Willow]

I wouldn't accept anyone that did not accept and abide by our laws. I would accept women and children that we could save from rape, torture, and death.

I would invite every big hearted American that believes we should bring all these folks into our country to host a family or two into their homes and adopt or sponsor them.   Be my guest.     IOWs, go for it.  

But, by doing so, those adopting Americans should accept responsibility for the adoptees just as if they were getting a new born adopted child and all that goes along with that.  

Some are doing it.  My church is doing it, although my personal involvement has thus far been minimal.  We have sponsored a family consisting of a father, a mother, two young girls, and a toddler boy.  We have rented and furnished a modest home, and our members see them regularly to visit with them and help them negotiate and transition into our society.

bible doesn't promote welfare which your church is doing for them.
just remember this is their cult beliefs.
http://britishfreepress.com/world-news/pakistani-father-beat-his-own-daughter-to-death-because-she-couldnt-bake-perfect-bread

Actually it does, CA.  It specifically calls for Christians to give to those in need and it does call for goodness and prayer for those who despitefully use you. Whether it is in the form of precisely what Gryphon Rider's church is doing is open to some debate but the advantage is on their side.  I personally would like to see us be able to give without importing them here but I can't find anything in the Bible that dictates my preference rather than the method some have chosen.

[hubcapsc]

I think Matthew 25 is one of the most powerful verses in the Bible:

 ...
For I was hungry
and you gave Me something to eat;
I was thirsty
and you gave Me something to drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
I was naked and you clothed Me;
I was sick and you took care of Me;
I was in prison and you visited Me.’

“Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You,
or thirsty and give You something to drink? When did we see You a stranger and take
You in, or without clothes and clothe You? When did we see You sick, or in prison, and
visit You?’

“And the King will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’ ...

For I was hungry
and you gave Me nothing to eat;
I was thirsty
and you gave Me nothing to drink;
I was a stranger
and you didn’t take Me in;
I was naked
and you didn’t clothe Me,
sick and in prison
and you didn’t take care of Me.’

“Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger,
or without clothes, or sick, or in prison, and not help You?’

“Then He will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these,
you did not do for Me either.’

[Wizzard]

Amen,, that's pretty cut and dried. 

[Gryphon Rider]

I see hubcapsc has given a good reply while I was intermittently composing mine.  But at risk of piling on, I'll add my thoughts and some other relevant scripture passages.

I wouldn't accept anyone that did not accept and abide by our laws. I would accept women and children that we could save from rape, torture, and death.

I would invite every big hearted American that believes we should bring all these folks into our country to host a family or two into their homes and adopt or sponsor them.   Be my guest.     IOWs, go for it.  

But, by doing so, those adopting Americans should accept responsibility for the adoptees just as if they were getting a new born adopted child and all that goes along with that.  

Some are doing it.  My church is doing it, although my personal involvement has thus far been minimal.  We have sponsored a family consisting of a father, a mother, two young girls, and a toddler boy.  We have rented and furnished a modest home, and our members see them regularly to visit with them and help them negotiate and transition into our society.

bible doesn't promote welfare which your church is doing for them.
just remember this is their cult beliefs.
http://britishfreepress.com/world-news/pakistani-father-beat-his-own-daughter-to-death-because-she-couldnt-bake-perfect-bread

If you are talking about "welfare" in the sense of long-term support of people who are able but unwilling to support themselves, no, the Bible doesn't support that.

The Anawi (not their actual name) family lived in Damascus, where Sayid was a concrete worker.  I don't know whether he had his own business, or worked for someone else.  He showed me pictures on his phone of some of the work he had done: stamped, coloured concrete, sometimes with colourful tile inlays.  It was beautiful work that is uncommon here.  If I was wealthy and wanted a beautiful courtyard, I would want him to do it.  The Anawis fled to a refugee camp in Lebanon, where they were vetted by the Canadian government or an approved agency (like I said, I haven't been keenly involved with this, so don't remember details), and eventually were brought to Calgary.  Since shortly after arriving, Sayid has been spending his days in English classes, which are very intense for him (he's a concrete worker, not a scholar), and his wife and family have been getting settled into their home, getting the medical and other care they need, and getting the older kids settled in school.  Sayid recently enthusiastically participated in a work bee at our church.  An Arabic-speaking Christian pastor has been regularly visiting the family.

Here is what the Bible does say:

Deut 10:18-19 (NIV) - He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the foreigner residing among you, giving them food and clothing. And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt.

Lev 19:34 (NIV) - The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.

Lev 25:35 (NIV) - If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and are unable to support themselves among you, help them as you would a foreigner and stranger, so they can continue to live among you.

Prov 19:17 (NIV) - Whoever is kind to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will reward them for what they have done.

Isaiah 58:6-8 (NIV) - Is not this the fast that I choose: to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the straps of the yoke, to let the oppressed go free, and to break every yoke? Is it not to share your bread with the hungry and bring the homeless poor into your house; when you see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh? Then shall your light break forth like the dawn, and your healing shall spring up speedily; your righteousness shall go before you; the glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard.

Isaiah 58:10 (NIV) - and if you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry and satisfy the needs of the oppressed, then your light will rise in the darkness, and your night will become like the noonday.

Luke 3:11 (NIV) - Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.

Luke 10:29-37 (NIV)
But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

“Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

------------------------------------------------------

An excellent article:
http://sbcvoices.com/considering-the-facts-a-christian-response-from-alabama-to-the-syrian-refugee-crisis-alan-cross/

[98valk]

All, not telling me anything I don't already know. My point they do not want to abide by the laws of the country/ies they are invading.

Key #10: The stranger (those outside the Covenant) will live among you and be treated with respect.

"They (God's covenant people) will rebuild the ancient ruins and restore the places long devastated: they will renew the ruined cities that have been devastated for generations. The stranger will shepherd your flock; foreigners will work your fields and vineyards" (Isaiah 61:4,5). "If you (Israel) really change your ways and your actions and deal with each other justly, if you do not oppress the alien, the fatherless or the widow, and do not shed innocent blood in this place and if you do not follow other gods to your own harm, then I will let you live in this place, in the land I gave to your forefathers for ever and ever" (Jeremiah 7:5-7).

The "alien" or "foreigner" in these verses would include the Palestinian Arabs and other non-Jewish people who live in the land. They would receive a blessing by living and working in the Land of Israel, not the Land of Palestine. On the one hand, Israel should treat them with respect. On the other hand, they have the responsibility to live at peace, abiding by the laws of the Land, recognizing under whose sovereignty it belongs.

This is what Moses taught: "The community (of Israel) is to have the same rules for you and for the alien living among you; this is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. You and the alien shall be the same before the Lord; the same laws and regulations will apply to you and to the alien living among you"(Numbers 15:15,16).

When this relationship is broken, as has happened today, then crisis ensues. Scripture has much more to say about the Land in prophecy, including the fact that Israel will go through many more trials before Messiah comes to fully restore Israel as the head of all nations.

good read
http://www.wnd.com/2011/11/363161/
What the Bible says about illegal immigration
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2011/11/363161/#1CUCATkPYeRwtdtU.99

Psalm 79:1
O God, the nations have invaded Your inheritance; They have defiled Your holy temple; They have laid Jerusalem in ruins.

 Hosea 4:11-12

A major key to understanding the application of both Hosea and Amos to us is that both prophets prophesied in Israel, the ten northern tribes, in an era similar to that in which we live, that is, in a last generation before a major national calamity. In their case, it was just before the people of Israel fell to the invading Assyrian armies, were removed from their homeland, and scattered to the four winds, never to return.

Historical records and archeological findings show that Israel was quite prosperous at the time, a major power in the world. Simultaneously, the nation was morally rotten to the core, and social injustice was the order of the day throughout the land. The Israelites of that time were literally getting drunk, as Amos reports them drinking wine by the bowlful (Amos 6:6). Yet a far more spiritual drunkenness guided their conduct. In addition, they practiced the ritual harlotry of the pagan religions they had adopted.

However, the lesson for us is spiritual. God is saying that at the end time, it will be as if a demonic power has seized the nation, destroying loyalty to God in a spiritual drunken frenzy, during which the people will think themselves totally in control.

In Amos 3:9-10, the prophet is told to proclaim the tumults, oppression, violence, and robbery in the nation. The man on the street was not too disturbed at the lack of law and order. He did not seem to realize that this cancerous immorality plaguing the country from within would result in her being crushed and destroyed from without.

However, when the time came to defend Israel from foreign invasion, Israel would have no strength (verse 11). God says, "They have blown the trumpet and made everyone ready, but no one goes to battle" (Ezekiel 7:14). Because the people were so preoccupied with their own self-interests, they did not respond to the external threat of invasion. As a result, the nation fell easily.

In our own generation, we have seen that our adversaries could not conquer us on the battlefield when our general level of morality was high. But as our moral fiber weakened between 1950 and today, they began to destroy us in the business world. Our foes in World War II, in becoming our allies during the Cold War, learned our ways and now rival or outpace us in most economic categories—not only in the area of heavy industry, but in highly technological matters as well.
http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/cgg/ID/1158/Moral-Complacency.htm

[Gryphon Rider]

98valk,

The real threat to Israel in the times of the prophets, and in the time of Jesus' incarnation, was not the external enemy, but the state of the hearts of the people, hardened in their idolatry and hypocrisy.  The external enemies were tools of God's wrath against their infidelity.

Loving your enemy is done face to face.  Why are you so resistant to Christ's command to love your enemy?  Or can you cite a Biblical list of criteria that your enemy must meet in order to be worthy of your Christian love, starting with, "Must not be from a culture completely different from mine and centred on a religion opposed to Christianity."

About the Joseph Farah article you link to:

1. The article is about illegal immigrants, not legal refugees.
2. His "exegesis" of scripture is terrible, completely self-serving, and completely misses the points of the passages he cites.

[The emperor has no clothes]

An excellent article:
http://sbcvoices.com/considering-the-facts-a-christian-response-from-alabama-to-the-syrian-refugee-crisis-alan-cross/

That was an excellent article.  Thanks for the link.

[Bighead]

Dang Meahead you actually think something that came from Alabama besides me is excellent

[The emperor has no clothes]

Dang Meahead you actually think something that came from Alabama besides me is excellent

I'm sure there are many good people in and from Alabama.

[Bighead]

Yeah now that we found out what shoes and belts are they ain't no stopping us now,LOOK OUT

[hubcapsc]

Yeah now that we found out what shoes and belts are they ain't no stopping us now,LOOK OUT

That reminds me of the teethbrush joke ... 

-Mike

[Willow]

Yeah now that we found out what shoes and belts are they ain't no stopping us now,LOOK OUT

That reminds me of the teethbrush joke ... 

 

[98valk]

98valk,

The real threat to Israel in the times of the prophets, and in the time of Jesus' incarnation, was not the external enemy, but the state of the hearts of the people, hardened in their idolatry and hypocrisy.  The external enemies were tools of God's wrath against their infidelity.

Loving your enemy is done face to face.  Why are you so resistant to Christ's command to love your enemy?  Or can you cite a Biblical list of criteria that your enemy must meet in order to be worthy of your Christian love, starting with, "Must not be from a culture completely different from mine and centred on a religion opposed to Christianity."

About the Joseph Farah article you link to:

1. The article is about illegal immigrants, not legal refugees.
2. His "exegesis" of scripture is terrible, completely self-serving, and completely misses the points of the passages he cites.

WOW! who would have thought.
http://pamelageller.com/2016/10/france-admits-deradicalization-for-jihadis-is-big-failure.html/

France announced just recently inmates who lean toward a jihadist mindset would no longer be allowed to isolate themselves from the rest of the prison population, or receive special counseling and therapy sessions in similar isolated fashion, because such “deradicalization” efforts simply don’t work.

And the finding ought to turn heads in America: the United States has a program that’s based on a similar logic – that you can take the jihad out of the wanna-be if you simply get him alone and counsel him.

The isolated treatment had been France’s way of dealing with jailed jihadi-types, in hopes that removing them from general population would eventually tone down and then correct their radicalized Islamic tendencies.

[Robert]

If anyone can show me in the Bible where Jesus endorses breaking the laws of the country, welcoming a people who would be your conquers and even the heads of government breaking the rules then count me in. Jesus was guilty of breaking no laws.

Also let me get this straight Moses didn't have to go in and take the land that the Lord gave them? Or maybe the moabites, and all the ites clan that the Lord told isreal to conquer with the Lords help was wrong. Maybe even instead of delivering the Jews from Egypt God should have just loved on them LOL. 

I would venture to say that the US is one of if not the most generous country in the world. I don't think anyone would say anything if they came to the US fully checked out, conforming to the laws of the US and wanting to be a better citizen. This is not what we have and far from it. When you cannot respect the immigration laws of the US and consider yourself above the public when you are nothing but a public servant then why should anyone trust the motivations, intentions, and trust worthiness of those who want them to come in. Putting your neighbor in danger by welcoming your enemy is not in the Bible.

98Valk awesome job on your post

Just as a added point, Israel welcomed their enemy and even made a pact with one much to their own destruction.

[Gryphon Rider]

98valk,

The real threat to Israel in the times of the prophets, and in the time of Jesus' incarnation, was not the external enemy, but the state of the hearts of the people, hardened in their idolatry and hypocrisy.  The external enemies were tools of God's wrath against their infidelity.

Loving your enemy is done face to face.  Why are you so resistant to Christ's command to love your enemy?  Or can you cite a Biblical list of criteria that your enemy must meet in order to be worthy of your Christian love, starting with, "Must not be from a culture completely different from mine and centred on a religion opposed to Christianity."

About the Joseph Farah article you link to:

1. The article is about illegal immigrants, not legal refugees.
2. His "exegesis" of scripture is terrible, completely self-serving, and completely misses the points of the passages he cites.

WOW! who would have thought.
http://pamelageller.com/2016/10/france-admits-deradicalization-for-jihadis-is-big-failure.html/

France announced just recently inmates who lean toward a jihadist mindset would no longer be allowed to isolate themselves from the rest of the prison population, or receive special counseling and therapy sessions in similar isolated fashion, because such “deradicalization” efforts simply don’t work.

And the finding ought to turn heads in America: the United States has a program that’s based on a similar logic – that you can take the jihad out of the wanna-be if you simply get him alone and counsel him.

The isolated treatment had been France’s way of dealing with jailed jihadi-types, in hopes that removing them from general population would eventually tone down and then correct their radicalized Islamic tendencies.

Why won't you address my points?  All you can do is point out the evil of the people refugees are fleeing from.

It's no surprise to me that counselling and therapy sessions don't work as an antidote to evil, because the issue is that "the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?" (Jer 17:9 ESV)  Their (and our) only hope of change is that someone preaches the Good News of Jesus Christ to them, and that God grants them repentance and belief.

Do you think Jesus didn't know the hearts of our enemies when he commanded us to love them?

Please understand that I am not advocating giving known jihadists freedom and inviting them into our communities.

[Gryphon Rider]

If anyone can show me in the Bible where Jesus endorses breaking the laws of the country, welcoming a people who would be your conquers and even the heads of government breaking the rules then count me in. Jesus was guilty of breaking no laws.

Who is suggesting it's okay to break the laws of the country.  Welcoming refugees breaks no laws.

Also let me get this straight Moses didn't have to go in and take the land that the Lord gave them? Or maybe the moabites, and all the ites clan that the Lord told isreal to conquer with the Lords help was wrong. Maybe even instead of delivering the Jews from Egypt God should have just loved on them LOL.

How does that address the refugee issue?  Or are you saying that God commanded Israel under Moses to break the commandment that Jesus would later give to us?  Or that Christ's command to love our enemies is actually something that some first or second-century liberal added to His Word in order to make life more complicated for us?  What exactly are you saying, Robert?

I would venture to say that the US is one of if not the most generous country in the world. I don't think anyone would say anything if they came to the US fully checked out, conforming to the laws of the US and wanting to be a better citizen. This is not what we have and far from it. When you cannot respect the immigration laws of the US and consider yourself above the public when you are nothing but a public servant then why should anyone trust the motivations, intentions, and trust worthiness of those who want them to come in.

Titus 3:1 (ESV) - Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities

1 Pet 2:13-15, 18 (ESV) - Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people... Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust.

These epistles were written when the governing authority was Rome, an empire well-known for its corruption and cruelty.

[3fan4life]

I cannot argue that the taking in of refugees isn't a noble thing.

It is a noble thing to do.

In this case it is also a very dangerous thing.

Additionally, the numbers of refugees in this case are in the millions.

Even taking them in by the thousands isn't going to put a dent in the problem.

Instead the goal should be to provide safe zones and humanitarian aid to them there.

This, issue is also complicated as many countries in the Middle East won't allow them in.

Saudi Arabia is a major culprit in this area.

Maybe, we should ask ourselves: What do they know that we don't? 

[The emperor has no clothes]

Maybe we should ask  "Do we want to be like them" ?

[3fan4life]

Maybe we should ask  "Do we want to be like them" ?

This is definately an area where you are allowing yourself to be governed by pure emotion and little to no logic.

You're so focused on the touchy, touchy, feel good of saving women and children that the big picture just isn't in focus.


Even if there wasn't a trust issue the truth is that the numbers are too great.

We simply cannot bring enough of them here to make any real difference.

We can save more lives in the long run if we provide aid to them there.

It won't be easy and it is a politically complicated issue.

I am certain though that if our government's focus was on that instead of bringing them here, it could be done.

 

[Gryphon Rider]

This, issue is also complicated as many countries in the Middle East won't allow them in.

Saudi Arabia is a major culprit in this area.

Maybe, we should ask ourselves: What do they know that we don't?  

Maybe they know what we know, that it's far more convenient to write a cheque than to help people physically right in front of you.  It's even more convenient to not even write a cheque.

Don't you think our Lord expects more of us than Allah expects of Muhammad's followers?

Romans 12:20 (ESV) - To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

[Gryphon Rider]

Maybe we should ask  "Do we want to be like them" ?

This is definately an area where you are allowing yourself to be governed by pure emotion and little to no logic.

You're so focused on the touchy, touchy, feel good of saving women and children that the big picture just isn't in focus.

Col 3:12 (ESV) - Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility...

2 Cor 1:3-4 (ESV) - Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.

James 1:26 (ESV) - If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world. [emphasis added]

[3fan4life]

This, issue is also complicated as many countries in the Middle East won't allow them in.

Saudi Arabia is a major culprit in this area.

Maybe, we should ask ourselves: What do they know that we don't?  

Maybe they know what we know, that it's far more convenient to write a cheque than to help people physically right in front of you.  It's even more convenient to not even write a cheque.

Don't you think our Lord expects more of us than Allah expects of Muhammad's followers?

Romans 12:20 (ESV) - To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

I feel that you also are thinking with the heart and not the head.

I'm not advocating doing nothing, in fact I am suggesting that we do much more than we are doing now.

Facts are facts and when you look at the sheer number of refugees the way to save the most lives is to provide for them there.

We simply cannot bring them ALL here.

We can do our best to provide them with food and shelter there.

Even that won't be enough to save them all.

But, it will do the most good for the most people.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Maybe we should ask  "Do we want to be like them" ?

This is definately an area where you are allowing yourself to be governed by pure emotion and little to no logic.

You're so focused on the touchy, touchy, feel good of saving women and children that the big picture just isn't in focus.


Even if there wasn't a trust issue the truth is that the numbers are too great.

We simply cannot bring enough of them here to make any real difference.

We can save more lives in the long run if we provide aid to them there.

It won't be easy and it is a politically complicated issue.

I am certain though that if our government's focus was on that instead of bringing them here, it could be done.

 

Anybody that knows me knows that I'm pretty much a heartless bastard. Touchy Feely, not so much. Yes you are correct. We can't save them all. Wouldn't saving just one child be the Christian thing to do ? As I said the other day, maybe it's too much to ask. I'm not sure how anybody of good faith could just wash their hands of it. 

[3fan4life]

Maybe we should ask  "Do we want to be like them" ?

This is definately an area where you are allowing yourself to be governed by pure emotion and little to no logic.

You're so focused on the touchy, touchy, feel good of saving women and children that the big picture just isn't in focus.


Even if there wasn't a trust issue the truth is that the numbers are too great.

We simply cannot bring enough of them here to make any real difference.

We can save more lives in the long run if we provide aid to them there.

It won't be easy and it is a politically complicated issue.

I am certain though that if our government's focus was on that instead of bringing them here, it could be done.

 

Anybody that knows me knows that I'm pretty much a heartless bastard. Touchy Feely, not so much. Yes you are correct. We can't save them all. Wouldn't saving just one child be the Christian thing to do ? As I said the other day, maybe it's too much to ask. I'm not sure how anybody of good faith could just wash their hands of it. 

Why is the only solution to pack them up and move them 10K plus miles?

For starters, you're making the assumption that they want to live here.

The greatest culture shock of my life was when I went to Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War.

I am sure that comming from their culture to ours is as equally shocking for them.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Maybe we should ask  "Do we want to be like them" ?

This is definately an area where you are allowing yourself to be governed by pure emotion and little to no logic.

You're so focused on the touchy, touchy, feel good of saving women and children that the big picture just isn't in focus.


Even if there wasn't a trust issue the truth is that the numbers are too great.

We simply cannot bring enough of them here to make any real difference.

We can save more lives in the long run if we provide aid to them there.

It won't be easy and it is a politically complicated issue.

I am certain though that if our government's focus was on that instead of bringing them here, it could be done.

 

Anybody that knows me knows that I'm pretty much a heartless bastard. Touchy Feely, not so much. Yes you are correct. We can't save them all. Wouldn't saving just one child be the Christian thing to do ? As I said the other day, maybe it's too much to ask. I'm not sure how anybody of good faith could just wash their hands of it.  

Why is the only solution to pack them up and move them 10K plus miles?

For starters, you're making the assumption that they want to live here.

The greatest culture shock of my life was when I went to Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War.

I am sure that comming from their culture to ours is as equally shocking for them.

I am not saying that it is the only solution . I assume nothing. I'm sure the shock of coming to America pales in comparison to the shock of a 4 year old kid witnessing death, torture, rape of his family. I doubt a culture shock even registers in comparison.

[3fan4life]

Maybe we should ask  "Do we want to be like them" ?

This is definately an area where you are allowing yourself to be governed by pure emotion and little to no logic.

You're so focused on the touchy, touchy, feel good of saving women and children that the big picture just isn't in focus.


Even if there wasn't a trust issue the truth is that the numbers are too great.

We simply cannot bring enough of them here to make any real difference.

We can save more lives in the long run if we provide aid to them there.

It won't be easy and it is a politically complicated issue.

I am certain though that if our government's focus was on that instead of bringing them here, it could be done.

 

Anybody that knows me knows that I'm pretty much a heartless bastard. Touchy Feely, not so much. Yes you are correct. We can't save them all. Wouldn't saving just one child be the Christian thing to do ? As I said the other day, maybe it's too much to ask. I'm not sure how anybody of good faith could just wash their hands of it.  

Why is the only solution to pack them up and move them 10K plus miles?

For starters, you're making the assumption that they want to live here.

The greatest culture shock of my life was when I went to Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War.

I am sure that comming from their culture to ours is as equally shocking for them.

I am not saying that it is the only solution . I assume nothing. I doubt the shock of coming to America pales in comparison to the shock of a 4 year old kid witnessing death, torture, rape of his family. I doubt a culture shock even registers in comparison.

I think that you should put your money where your mouth is and sponsor a family by bringing them into your home.

The other 4 million or so can just fend for themselves.


Again, we can do more good for more people by providing help to them where they are.

[G-Man]

Whenever I hear "But, what about the women and children?"  I recall that scene in American sniper when the WOMAN give the grenade to the CHILD and points him in the direction of the Americans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L83DVg6A65w

[Gryphon Rider]

Again, we can do more good for more people by providing help to them where they are.

While that may be true from a temporal humanitarian perspective, a Christian should approach this differently, with an eternal perspective.  I'll start off here by saying that no-one is advocating bringing all the refugees here.  We should bring only as many we are capable of ably helping personally.  We have an opportunity, by welcoming Moslem refugees into our communities and supplying their physical needs, to be obedient to Christ in a way that can have a huge impact for the Gospel.  We have Moslems that are willing to come to a "Christian" country and accept help from Christians, at a time when they have just experienced first-hand the cruel results of taking the Moslem faith to its logical conclusion.  We have an opportunity be the hands and feet of Christ to them in a way they can't ignore, cultivating the soil to receive the seed of the Gospel in a way that wouldn't happen in a refugee camp, especially if our aid was delivered by government or secular NGOs.  Here is a prime opportunity to storm the gates of hell and free prisoners that Satan has assumed to be securely his!

When I was a boy, my smallish church (not my current congregation) sponsored several Vietnamese refugee families.  My barber was one of them, and is still part of a strong Vietnamese Christian church as a result of our sponsorship of them.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Again, we can do more good for more people by providing help to them where they are.

While that may be true from a temporal humanitarian perspective, a Christian should approach this differently, with an eternal perspective.  I'll start off here by saying that no-one is advocating bringing all the refugees here.  We should bring only as many we are capable of ably helping personally.  We have an opportunity, by welcoming Moslem refugees into our communities and supplying their physical needs, to be obedient to Christ in a way that can have a huge impact for the Gospel.  We have Moslems that are willing to come to a "Christian" country and accept help from Christians, at a time when they have just experienced first-hand the cruel results of taking the Moslem faith to its logical conclusion.  We have an opportunity be the hands and feet of Christ to them in a way they can't ignore, cultivating the soil to receive the seed of the Gospel in a way that wouldn't happen in a refugee camp, especially if our aid was delivered by government or secular NGOs.  Here is a prime opportunity to storm the gates of hell and free prisoners that Satan has assumed to be securely his!

You state the situation much better than I can. I am also not near as compassionate as you are. I come to it from a more simple place. To me a child is precious and unspoiled. I see no good reason not to at least try to alleviate some of their torture. I have no illusions of saving the world. I do want to be able to say on my day of reckoning that I helped and not turned a blind eye.

[Robert]

I would like to ask you Gryphon why does the plight of the Syrians cause you so much concern. Why doesn't the starving in Africa, along with the raping and aids epidemic and lack of water and food. How about Venezuelans are EATING ZOO ANIMALS to survive, that is real close to home not having food, nothing in the stores to eat and medical help non exsistant. The Palestinians are not even up to the US poverty line and some starve. Haiti has so many that are starving and die just when they start to rebuild a hurricane comes and destroys all that was built. I could name so many more that need help.
I will also tell you that there are many here in the US that need help that dont get it. Why are you not concerned about these?

Do you really have a clue to how much poverty and suffering there is in the world today?

We give more than any country in the world and that is because Americans by nature are giving. We have social programs here to help those in need and even then give over and above what we as the government gives. The church that I belong to has given much money to Haitians and other causes.

Why does our government use the very crop corn that feeds the world and use it for gasoline even when its been proven that ethanol does not work. It caused the food prices in other countries to go up so there are even more starving. Have you ever served in a food kitchen? I have, we have so many here that are in worse shape than the Syrians and they are our own.

If the government had sound money policies, was responsible to the citizens, cared and screened all that came in and had extra money I would have no objections. Why should we take in more with the added cost of medical care, extra taxes, cost of police and security. When our own government cannot even control and stop illegals from coming into this country and stealing tax money and killing people. We have a great example in Europe of what happens when you welcome those in that have a agenda that is not in line with the country they come to.

I will tell you that because of the lack of good leadership and a government that has not accomplished a successful program. I would worry about my families personal safety if we had to many come in unscreened. No if you want why dont you import them to Canada and lets see what happens.

Here in Florida we have Haitians that the government cannot deport and as a result many have no insurance on their cars. So I have to have the added cost of having insurance to cover someone who does not have insurance. This along with communities that resemble Haiti. Some do not have respect for US citizens and they get free medical care that costs us as the US taxpayer.  

Do you realize that 
God blessed the US as one of the most prosperous countries in the world and we are expected to use what was given to us wisely and respectfully. The Syrians were born into a country that they made the rules in. They worshiped the god of their choice formed the laws of their country and allowed those in power to continue. If we in the US cannot get a grip on whats happening in this country we will be in the same condition. Who will help us?

 CAMP FOSTER, Okinawa — It was a familiar scene as the USS George Washington reached the Philippines this week: the U.S. military rushing to the aid of hundreds of thousands suffering from a natural disaster.

U.S. aircraft carriers loaded with equipment, supplies and thousands of troops have shown up early to some of the world’s worst disasters over the past decade, including tsunamis in Japan and Indonesia and a deadly earthquake in Haiti.

The massive ships are a potent symbol of U.S. power — and charity. Disaster relief has become a key mission for the United States and a way to exercise the softer side of its military influence overseas.

Such relief work is especially valuable now in the typhoon- and earthquake-prone Pacific, where the Obama administration is proposing that the U.S. refocus its military and diplomatic efforts following the end of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Who shares the cost of this?? What country is giving back to the US for all the help we give? Why doesn't the Saudi's give? I could go on and on about the US help so where is Canada in this whole thing? Why dont you tell us.

 The aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson arrived in Haiti in January 2010, days after an earthquake killed 230,000 people, injured about 300,000 and destroyed or severely damaged a quarter-million homes. The carrier brought 19 helicopters to deliver badly needed relief supplies. About 2,000 Marines also assisted the island nation in the aftermath.

In Haiti, the U.S. had little to gain strategically. The small island nation is mostly known in the United States for its ineffective government and illegal immigration. A recent coup had led to limited military intervention.

The Navy was also called to action in December 2004 when one of the worst tsunami disasters on record occurred following an earthquake in the Indian Ocean.

About 286,000 people died in the surge of water that struck 14 countries, according to the World Bank. In less than a week, the USS Abraham Lincoln was deployed off the coast of Indonesia’s Aceh province, which suffered most of the deaths and destruction. The crew ferried food, water and medical supplies to survivors.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

We paid the price in dead, in our own civil wars and wars abroad, in our structure of government being setup on the Jewish/ Christian laws and we continue in churches to give well beyond most individuals means for our own country and those of other countries also. I am concerned, I wish they didnt have to go through it but what would the world look like today without the US, I would say vastly different, you may even be speaking German. So if God has put it on your heart to help these people why dont you do something about it. That is called a calling, That is a personal calling to make a move that God wants to bless. Maybe that is why you have this.

[Gryphon Rider]

I would like to ask you Gryphon...

You have an awful lot of questions for me considering you haven't bothered to answer the ones I had for you.  They were sincere.

[Robert]

Sorry I will answer I dont want to have the bad habits of some here.

German Streets Descend into Lawlessness
"We are losing control of the streets."

by Soeren Kern
October 31, 2016 at 5:30 am

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9229/germany-lawlessness


    During the first six months of 2016, migrants committed 142,500 crimes, according to the Federal Criminal Police Office. This is equivalent to 780 crimes committed by migrants every day, an increase of nearly 40% over 2015. The data includes only those crimes in which a suspect has been caught.

    Thousands of migrants who entered the country as "asylum seekers" or "refugees" have gone missing. They are, presumably, economic migrants who entered Germany on false pretenses. Many are thought to be engaging in robbery and criminal violence.

    Local police in many parts of the country admit that they are stretched to the limit and are unable to maintain law and order.

    "Drug trafficking takes place right before our eyes. If we intervene, we are threatened, spat on, insulted. Sometimes someone whips out a knife. They are always the same people. They are ruthless, fearless and have no problems with robbing even the elderly." — Private security guard.

    According to Freddi Lohse of the German Police Union in Hamburg, many migrant offenders view the leniency of the German justice system as a green light to continue delinquent behavior. "They are used to tougher consequences in their home countries," he said. "They have no respect for us."

    "It cannot be that offenders continue to fill the police files, hurt us physically, insult us, whatever, and there are no consequences. Many cases are closed or offenders are released on probation or whatever. Yes, what is happening in the courts today is a joke." — Tania Kambouri, German police officer.

In Hamburg, statistics show that migrants committed nearly half of the 38,000 crimes reported in Hamburg during the first six months of 2016, although migrants make up only a fraction of the city's 1.7 million inhabitants. Police say that many of the crimes were committed by "migrant gangs" (ausländischen Banden).

[The emperor has no clothes]

A copy and paste ?  ???

[Rams]

Maybe we should ask  "Do we want to be like them" ?

This is definately an area where you are allowing yourself to be governed by pure emotion and little to no logic.

You're so focused on the touchy, touchy, feel good of saving women and children that the big picture just isn't in focus.


Even if there wasn't a trust issue the truth is that the numbers are too great.

We simply cannot bring enough of them here to make any real difference.

We can save more lives in the long run if we provide aid to them there.

It won't be easy and it is a politically complicated issue.

I am certain though that if our government's focus was on that instead of bringing them here, it could be done.

 

Anybody that knows me knows that I'm pretty much a heartless bastard. Touchy Feely, not so much. Yes you are correct. We can't save them all. Wouldn't saving just one child be the Christian thing to do ? As I said the other day, maybe it's too much to ask. I'm not sure how anybody of good faith could just wash their hands of it. 

Just maybe they should learn to stand on their own.    This rock has it's own challenges and we all have to learn to stand up and deal with it.   

[Serk]

While that may be true from a temporal humanitarian perspective, a Christian should approach this differently, with an eternal perspective.

"the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"

Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli, unanimously ratified by the UN Senate on June 7, 1797.l

Just felt I'd be remiss if I didn't point that out that little fact relevant to the current conversation...

[hubcapsc]

While that may be true from a temporal humanitarian perspective, a Christian should approach this differently, with an eternal perspective.

"the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"

Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli, unanimously ratified by the UN Senate on June 7, 1797.l

Just felt I'd be remiss if I didn't point that out that little fact relevant to the current conversation...

Political words, probably to assure the Mussulmen that we were not about to unleash another
Crusade on them.

The Wiki page about it points out something we all know:

many Founding Fathers and newspapers described America as a Christian nation during the early Republic.

And something I know  :

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

The above is supposed mean we won't force you to be a Southern Baptist, it doesn't mean we're going to provide you
freedom from religion by suppressing the Southern Baptists.

-Mike

[3fan4life]

Again, we can do more good for more people by providing help to them where they are.

While that may be true from a temporal humanitarian perspective, a Christian should approach this differently, with an eternal perspective.

I'm not trying to demean what your church has done.

It is a noble undertaking and I can see that you are personally invested in it.

Let me ask you though, What was/is the cost involved?

The cost to bring them to Canada?
The cost to clothe and house them there?

How, many more people could that money have helped and continue to help in the hands of an organization that specializes in feeding the hungry around the world?

https://feedthehungry.org

www.feedthechildren.org

(Just a couple that come to mind)



In thinking about this, I'm reminded of the parable of the five talents:

14 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. 18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them.

20 “So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ 21 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ 22 He also who had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ 23 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’

24 “Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’

26 “But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.

29 ‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’   Matthew 25:14-30 (NKJV)

I am not saying that you and your church members will or even should be called a wicked and lazy servant.

Your church's intentions and motives are righteous. 

I do believe that the underlying message of the parable is applicable though.

As Christians we are commanded by God to manage to the best of our ability the resources that He gives us.

There is nothing wrong with saving a family of 5 or so.

But if those same resources could be used to save 500 people instead, would that not be a better use of them?   

My thought process is that our goal should be to feed and shelter the masses (including those who may be our enemies).

Then, we need to work to resolve the problems that have caused the crisis.

Once we have accomplished that, then we can begin to bring the people here that want to be here.

And if the crisis is resolved that will most likely not be as many of them as you would think. 

It also takes away from the urgency of the situation and allows time for vetting those that do want to immigrate.

[3fan4life]

I would like to ask you Gryphon why does the plight of the Syrians cause you so much concern. Why doesn't the starving in Africa, along with the raping and aids epidemic and lack of water and food.

We have an obligation to help in Syria.

Not just because we are Christians.

We have an obligation to help because it was the inept blundering of our current president that caused it.

Nothing, in the Middle East ever has an easy solution.

It has always been and always will be complicated.

The culture of the Middle East is radically different from Western Culture. 

Our leaders have made terrible mistakes because of their inability to understand this.

The current situation in Syria is a prime example of the consequences when our leaders meddle in things that should've been left alone.