My belly tank fuel pump failed during a recent trip to the Blue Ridge Parkway. The tank has been installed less than one year and has +/- 7,000 miles of operation since new.
Changing back to gravity flow wasn't a big problem, but stopping for fuel every 120 miles for the remainder of the trip was a hassle, especially for the other riders on bikes with 200 mile ranges.
I want to revert to a gravity system, as Mother Honda intended. Mark T's recently published mod is a great design, but I don't need all of its features or complexity.
I could have done it w/o the fuel control panel with switches and lights, or transfer solenoid. A manual ballcock valve would be a good alternate for the solenoid valve. That would have been much easier but I like bells & whistles sometimes.Following is a description of what I propose to do & I would appreciate any suggestions or criticisms anyone may have.
I plan to install a Pingle with a "T" added between the petcock & the carb feed hose & connect the Pump output hose to the "T". The vent hose for the belly tank would be extended to a high point above the maximum full level of the original tank. Possible locations would be threading it into the Sissy Bar or terminating it with clear hose in the windshield bracket or inserting it into the backrest. I'm not concerned with spillage if laid down as I've triked my Valk.
I connected the belly tank vent to the OEM vent, that puts it to the top of the OEM tank. I then drilled a small hole in the collar of the filler - then re-sealed that hole when I found the replcement filler cap (I think for the Magna? - posted here a cpl months ago) is identical to the Valk cap but is vented with a check valve. Of course now you have a diff key for the gas cap and you can't have the key cut diff on one side because the blank is different.The Pump would be defaulted "off" and controlled by a handlebar switch. Upon beginning to stutter when down to reserve, the Pump would be switched on and remain on until emptying the belly tank and again reaching reserve or refilling the tanks.
My thought is that the likelihood of Pump failure would be drastically minimized by the Pump running far less time. My concern is that the Pump failure may be primarily caused by heat and this mod would not obviate that problem. The failure being caused by heat is enhanced in my mind because the failure occurred within an hour after making three consecutive hard trips over the Dragon and the further fact that when I turned on the key the following morning, the Pump kicked on as if it was happy.
FYI it takes about 9 1/2 minutes to transfer 3 gallons up.What are your thoughts on insulating the Pump? I could either shield it with heat shield insulation or a possibility would be to encase it with SprayFoam.
Not needed if you do these other mods. It only runs 9 minutes per gas stop, that's if you need to use the belly fuel. On rides with others - someone has a std fuel tank only - I've been on several rides where I didn't need the belly fuel at all.
I understand the distance between the petcock and carb bank is severely limited. Is there room to add both The "T" and a DanMark?
No. Not while keeping the line downhill or level. Change the OEM T to a brass one with screw-in barbs and the same thread size as the Dan-Marc and you can save around 1.5 inches making enough room for the extra T. You could also use a 4-way "X" instead, also brass with screw-in connections. Or a 4-port plenum if you can find one. I connected the pump-up fuel line from the belly tank to the "bung line" (for downward fuel transfer) above the bung line shutoff valve after first trying your idea and getting starvation problems. This means the fuel is delivered up to the tank, not the fuel line so I have to hit reserve on the Pingel when it needs it - the fuel doesn't move to the fuel line fast enough. Then hitting the fuel pump, after a minute I can switch the Pingel back to main. I put an extender handle on the Pingel to make it easier to find, but doubt I could find it with fgloves on. Instead, I just pump up the 3 gallons after there's for sure room for it - around 110 miles on the ticker.
Can the Pingle be disassembled so as to remove all heat-sensitive parts so as to enable brazing or soldering a shorter "T" to the petcock outlet? Is the Pingle made of brass or pot metal?
Brass I'm thinkin. I wouldn't heat it. No doubt has O rings inside. Use JB Weld instead. That's how I attached the extended lever handle.Again, I'd appreciate any thoughts or criticisms of this plan.
There is another option of finding another style pump or just another pump of the same style. I dont understand the thought that a fuel pump makes the bike less reliable, especially when most bikes and all cars have fuel pumps in them. The system that was designed by the MFG is good and sound. The pumps are actually made by
http://www.facet-purolator.com/oem.phpThe system is less reliable because of the weak link of these pumps - they have a rep of failing. I suspect because they aren't immersed inside the tank to keep them cool, as pretty much all car fuel pumps are now AFAIK.I wouldn't change the setup and I agree that while Mark is a good tech and does good work some of the things are a bit Rube Goldberg.
Well I disagree on that statement sort of. As I said before, I could have made it simpler so maybe that's what you are referring to. I enjoy engineering stuff so perhaps that's a fault of mine. Sometimes it's just an exercise in "gee-whiz" shennanigans.
I think you like Mark are looking to over engineer this, Heat I doubt is the issue since the tank acts as a heat sink and all the air under the bike.
Disagree and the reports from others concur - heat is the problem.
My ideal setup would be similar to a car if I had a trike that had the room. Regular rotary Pump mounted someplace on the body big fuel filer and then to the carbs all the time still drawing out of the belly tank. Honda is a good manufactuer and has been making bikes for years but no MFG does not have problems with the designs sometimes. I give you the hydrolock as one example of faulty manufacturing. So when you say mother Honda I have seen some guys like MarkT make better modifications that fix a problem that the manufactures didnt correct or care about. So Honda is good but sometimes the owner of his bike knows best.
Yep. Honda is pretty good but not infallible and we have the advantage of living with the design and fixing problems. Gotta say, Honda did a pretty good job considering they didn't get to soak their designs for years and then adjust problems, like we can.I like my setup, after tweaking some bugs out of it. Love the extra range, plus the setup is such that if the pump fails, I just lose the extra fuel - not broke down on the side of the road. And it's much less likely for the pump to fail when it runs for only 9 minutes at a time, generally not more than twice a day. Then I can rescue others with the easy fuel-sharing extra petcock - that came in handy immediately after installing it on the GOTF ride this spring. Been thinking about renaming Jade "Oiler", re: WWII refueler supply ships for convoys - and has a double meaning re: Harleys. The latter would no doubt confuse American Iron riders.
