Some very upsetting and disturbing news, faithless electors

[Robert]

 Democratic presidential electors revolt against Trump

The Electoral College could see a historic number of 'faithless electors.'


At least a half-dozen Democratic electors have signed onto an attempt to block Donald Trump from winning an Electoral College majority, an effort designed not only to deny Trump the presidency but also to undermine the legitimacy of the institution.

The presidential electors, mostly former Bernie Sanders supporters who hail from Washington state and Colorado, are now lobbying their Republican counterparts in other states to reject their oaths — and in some cases, state law — to vote against Trump when the Electoral College meets on Dec. 19.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/democrats-electoral-college-faithless-trump-231731

[baldo]

[Rams]

To do so would most likely lead to a bloody outcome.   While I really don't like Trump, he won.   

Suck it up and do what the electorate voted to do.   

[MP]

The key is "Democratic" electors.

They are already going to vote for Hillary!

You would need a number of Republican electors to switch to Hillary. They are the ones actually elected. They are party faithful. Doubt if they are going to switch!  That would be like asking Obama to vote for Trump, after being pledged to Hillary.  Ain't happening.

[scooperhsd]

North Carolina has a LAW that the Electors MUST vote for the declared winner  (for the state) or
#1 - their vote doesn't count
#2 - a replacement elector is put in
#3 - the replaced elector is fined $500

Talk about interfering with the Constituional process of the Electoral College !!

IMO - The Electoral College should be eliminated (however, this would take a Constitutional Amendment that has less chance than  me pissing gold of passing).
Failing that - I feel each states electors should be allocated to each candidate on a PROPORTIONAL basis. - No more "all or nothing" voting for electors.

[Mobile Mayor]

The people who put forth rules for the electoral college understood the United States as it was then, and still is.  The college was intended to mitigate mob rule, in the form of more populated and more urban areas being able to force their will against larger geographic areas which which provided a sustaining economic force which drove the national economy, by voting their version of entitlement, and forcing lowered food and commodity prices which would have been detrimental to the larger more rural areas.  Imagine farmers, trappers, miners, lumbermen and numerous others thus not being able to earn sufficient profit to continue providing the sustenance which drove the nation. If this system is done away with,  more jobs and livelihoods will be outsourced (that word sound familiar?)  to areas where other workers can provide their services far more cheaply than the workers of our more rural areas can afford to work while still maintaining a living standard to which they are accustomed.  A decline in the infrastructure of the U.S. will result ( is resulting).  The intent of the college therefore, was to enable people in the minority in the U.S.  to periodically reverse the trend(s) which were causing distress to their regions, thereby preserving democracy, while not a pure form of democracy(mob rule) which would function in the best interests of the nation. {Got to stop now, too much brain overload}.Personally, I do not want to live in a communist, totalitarian country.   

[Mobile Mayor]

Scooperhed,  I remember when being taught in school about the U.S. govt. , being told that electors were duty and honor bound to honor the wishes of their represented voters.  Many of us were unhappy with the outcome of the previous two elections, but we accepted the results and waited to see what was going to happen.  It took eight years,  but finally the core of the country had had enough.  We are not headed on a sustainable course.    What exactly has happened to duty and honor?  And, are We The People, who are at the core of this country going to do about the divisiveness being forced upon us by the very party of our not yet previous administration, which campaigned on a platform of uniting americans?

[Mobile Mayor]

When you take a living being, and try to fundamentally change/ alter the form of that being, are you not in a way going contrary to nature, and trying to play god?

[scooperhsd]

Scooperhed,  I remember when being taught in school about the U.S. govt. , being told that electors were duty and honor bound to honor the wishes of their represented voters.  Many of us were unhappy with the outcome of the previous two elections, but we accepted the results and waited to see what was going to happen.  It took eight years,  but finally the core of the country had had enough.  We are not headed on a sustainable course.    What exactly has happened to duty and honor?  And, are We The People, who are at the core of this country going to do about the divisiveness being forced upon us by the very party of our not yet previous administration, which campaigned on a platform of uniting americans?

When I was in high school and we were covering the Electoral College - ALL I could see is "what a stupid way to select a president in this day of modern communications" - and I have never swerved from that, no matter who won /would have won with different results.
I do not see it as preventing mob rule - what it really does is allow the candidates to concentrate on a few "battleground states" (unfortunately, NC was one of them). "1 man, 1 vote" would be the ideal in my view of electing a president, but proportional splitting of the electors would be a close enough second place.  In most states that give all the electors to the states winning candidate, if you're for the other, you might as well not even vote.

Your assertion of "mob rule" DOES make more sense - when it is applied to the Congress. If you will go check history when they were writing the Constituition, the small states (NJ, DE, MD, etc.) were concerned with being overwhelmed by the larger states. The compromise that was reached was the 2 house system we still have today - 2 senators for each and every state, and  1 representative for every so many eligible voters in the House.

[Moonshot_1]

Scooperhed,  I remember when being taught in school about the U.S. govt. , being told that electors were duty and honor bound to honor the wishes of their represented voters.  Many of us were unhappy with the outcome of the previous two elections, but we accepted the results and waited to see what was going to happen.  It took eight years,  but finally the core of the country had had enough.  We are not headed on a sustainable course.    What exactly has happened to duty and honor?  And, are We The People, who are at the core of this country going to do about the divisiveness being forced upon us by the very party of our not yet previous administration, which campaigned on a platform of uniting americans?

When I was in high school and we were covering the Electoral College - ALL I could see is "what a stupid way to select a president in this day of modern communications" - and I have never swerved from that, no matter who won /would have won with different results.
I do not see it as preventing mob rule - what it really does is allow the candidates to concentrate on a few "battleground states" (unfortunately, NC was one of them). "1 man, 1 vote" would be the ideal in my view of electing a president, but proportional splitting of the electors would be a close enough second place.  In most states that give all the electors to the states winning candidate, if you're for the other, you might as well not even vote.

Your assertion of "mob rule" DOES make more sense - when it is applied to the Congress. If you will go check history when they were writing the Constituition, the small states (NJ, DE, MD, etc.) were concerned with being overwhelmed by the larger states. The compromise that was reached was the 2 house system we still have today - 2 senators for each and every state, and  1 representative for every so many eligible voters in the House.

I do think the Electoral College system is superb in efficiently electing the President and should not be changed.
We are a Federation of 50 states, separate nations if you will, and each state has a proportional voice in the process. The same proportional voice as the legislation process.

The concept of making the election of the President determined by the National popular vote is problematic. Some questions about it.

1. Who runs such an election? No provision exists in the Constitution. You would have to eliminate the Electoral College and write an Amendment to reflect the popular vote election.

2. How would you write the Amendment to cover this change?

3. How would you register all the voters? Can't do it at the State level. This is now a federal election and each voter would have to be registered under the same voting laws. Which now have to be federal laws. That currently don't exist.

I could go on for quite a while with questions concerning the hows and whys on this.

The big hurdle would be the breach of State's rights and State's obligations as it concerns the election of the Executive Branch in the Federal system.

And making such a change would not resolve anything as there is nothing to resolve. As it stands now the voter in each state gets their voice heard. Changing to a popular vote format doesn't change that.

[MP]

What about recounts? 

A lot of states have mandatory recounts at 1% or 1/2% difference between the top two.

If 100 million vote, and the difference is under 1 million votes, a recount is required, under those rules.  If national election, ALL of the United States would be required to recount manually!  Can you imagine the nightmare that would be?  Look at the problems we have had with ONE STATE recounting.  Now, ALL would be recounted?  Months, fights, lawsuits, etc.  Nightmare.

[TallRider]

The purpose of the electoral college is to prevent cheating and corruption in the election process. It makes it very difficult to screw the election. Also prevents one class or party to dominate the country as in the case of the current Group of Democrates. Like those currently protesting this election they didn't vote but upset over outcome. The dominant class  of voter in the left are those that expect something for nothing and feel they are entitled to share in what others work for without working themselves. There is an elite class that rule both parties and the Democrates currently are using the needy to maintain power. If it were by simple majority the major  cities of California, Illinois,  Florida  and New York would control the country. As the last election showed how the voters voted the working class has spoken. Basically the adults have said enough is enough we are taking the country back. PLEASE DON'T MISS UNDERSTAND ME. THE FOLKS ON THE BOARD HERE WHO ARE BASICALLY ARGUING OVER THE DIFFERENCE OF THIS ELECTION I DON'T PUT IN THE CATEGORY OF THOSE PROTESTING OR FEEL ENTITLED. I BELEIVE ALTHOUGH MISGUIDED DO NOT BELONG I IN THOSE GROUPS AND HAVE A TRUE CONVICTION ON PARTY LINES. But vast majority of those on left protesting are politically eliterate. Hopefully we are staying true to the Constitution going forward.

[Rams]

Scooperhed,  I remember when being taught in school about the U.S. govt. , being told that electors were duty and honor bound to honor the wishes of their represented voters.  Many of us were unhappy with the outcome of the previous two elections, but we accepted the results and waited to see what was going to happen.

I would only remind you of which group or side is trying to do this.   That should answer your question about duty and honor bound of their represented voters.    There are radicals on both side of the equation but, I doubt even the most dedicated group of Republicans  would consider doing this.   

Yes, my opinion of current Democrat leadership has lowered significantly over the last twenty or so years.      If I may remind our forum, "We'll have to pass it so they can read it."   

[G-Man]

Thank goodness for the E-College.  In my state, my vote NEVER counts.  Not even at the local level.  The Representative in the House for my area, Nita Lowey, Democrat, ran unopposed.  For the house of Representatives, she ran unopposed!!!  The Senate seat went easily to the long reigning Chuck Schumer.  I can't even recall the woman's name who ran against him.....that's how bad she wanted it.  To not even be heard of by home owners who pay the highest taxes in the country is strange.  The republicans don't even try any more in NY.

[..]

Where was the NATIONAL call to remove the electoral college before this and only this election?

Can any of the resident complainers educate us?

[old2soon]

long as the demoncraps WERE in power everything wuz hunky dory, NOW that the apple cart HAS been upset "they" have their knickers in a twist. Due process and the LAW didn't appear to mean much to the controlling party that is-Thank GOD-on the way out. Might should maybe buy Midol stock!  RIDE SAFE.

[Chrisj CMA]

I'm not going to rest easy about this election until the EC votes are in on the 19th of Dec.  It would be just a "fitting" ending to this whacky election to have the EC turn it around at the bitter end.  I don't know if the country could easily survive the chaos that would ensue. 

Maybe that's what Obama has planned, maybe he's behind the "dogging" of the EC voters so they vote HRC, and the country goes into a tail spin when Hillary is announced as the REAL new POTUS, then Obama will have to declare martial law and there would be no inauguration, therefore no change in the POTUS

[old2soon]

I'm not going to rest easy about this election until the EC votes are in on the 19th of Dec.  It would be just a "fitting" ending to this whacky election to have the EC turn it around at the bitter end.  I don't know if the country could easily survive the chaos that would ensue. 

Maybe that's what Obama has planned, maybe he's behind the "dogging" of the EC voters so they vote HRC, and the country goes into a tail spin when Hillary is announced as the REAL new POTUS, then Obama will have to declare martial law and there would be no inauguration, therefore no change in the POTUS

            I PRAY your scenario is just THAT-a scenario that NEVER takes place. NOW I want to see how many rounds of .40 I gotz left! RIDE SAFE.

[3fan4life]

Fixed it for you. 

[baldo]

Fixed it for you. 

 

[Moonshot_1]

Where was the NATIONAL call to remove the electoral college before this and only this election?

Can any of the resident complainers educate us?

To various degrees, the National call to change the Electoral College system occurs every election cycle.
The discussion runs the same course every time. The Electoral College is still champ.
Everyone has their voice heard within their state.
The system has never failed to yield a result.
It is the Constitutional procedure to produce the President.
Some say it is outdated, I say it is time tested.

[scooperhsd]

And on the subject of the thread - The whole purpose of the Electoral College was for the ELECTORS to choose who THEY thought was the best candidate - not necessarrily reflecting what the state's voters thought !  So - by defintion - there cannot be "faithless electors"....

Interesting thought - get yourself selected as an NC elector - then vote for who you want  - when the state fines - sue them in federal court for violating the federal constitution...