We had a union election

[BF]

AND WE WON!!! 

The election was run by the NLRB (the National Labor Relations Board) and we had 70% of the vote.   

I know that a lot of you despise unions, but when a contractor comes in and cuts your pay, cuts your insurance, takes half of your sick leave away and subs out half of the other jobs at lower pay rates and has the balls to tell everyone that they did it for everyone's benefit (but of course, their profit increased by a boat load from the last contract), it's time to take action....AND WE WON! 

The next thing is to get everyone's wish lists of concerns and what everyone wants to bargain for, then go to contract negotiations.  We should have a contract pretty soon. 

I'm so excited and I just can't hide it.  Woo Freakin' Hoo!!!!      

[Jambriwal]

Congrats on the vote. That will stop the lies about wages and other benefits you will negotiate. Unions are not perfect either but you should get a Wage and benefit package at the least, and they cannot fire you without just cause. 
Jambriwal

[BF]

Congrats on the vote. That will stop the lies about wages and other benefits you will negotiate. Unions are not perfect either but you should get a Wage and benefit package at the least, and they cannot fire you without just cause.  
Jambriwal

The new boss/contract manager has said things publicly in meetings that he loves firing people and is proud of letting go over a 100 people....and has said that the company needs to get rid of the "legacy" employees...meaning anyone over 50, which is most of the work force.

He came over to our facility for a meeting to convince us all how evil the Union is....first thing out of his mouth as he walked in the door was "am I an asshole?".  This guy is a peach...and we thought the last guy was pure evil (and believe me, he and his wingman buddy were).

At least we will have a contract for our employment that no one can be fired without just cause like before when everyone was an "at will" employee.

[baldo]

Congrats on the vote. That will stop the lies about wages and other benefits you will negotiate. Unions are not perfect either but you should get a Wage and benefit package at the least, and they cannot fire you without just cause.  
Jambriwal

The new boss/contract manager has said things publicly in meetings that he loves firing people and is proud of letting go over a 100 people....and has said that the company needs to get rid of the "legacy" employees...meaning anyone over 50, which is most of the work force.

He came over to our facility for a meeting to convince us all how evil the Union is....first thing out of his mouth as he walked in the door was "am I an asshole?".  This guy is a peach...and we thought the last guy was pure evil (and believe me, he and his wingman buddy were).

At least we will have a contract for our employment that no one can be fired without just cause like before when everyone was an "at will" employee.

Congratulations BF. THAT'S what I mean when I'm talking about unions. I will just never understand how a working man can be against them. Don't anyone take this as a tirade and run with it. This is simply a validation of union representation.

I was IAM at USAir back in the day. They were OK, not great, not horrible. I hope they do good by you. Good luck!

[Rams]

Have worked both sides of this issue.   Personally speaking, as a Manager, I've got no problem with a union as long as that union has good and honest leadership.   Unfortunately, not all qualify in those areas.   Have dealt with both types.    Have seen union leadership sell their folks or "certain" folks down the river and others fight for union members who we all knew and in private they would admit that the person they were fighting for wasn't worth the powder to blow him/her to hell.   There's got to be a balance.   A union can be an asset, it can also kill a company.

I never lied to the union, told them how it was and let them figure out how to handle it.   I wasn't against them nor would I intentionally screw them but, I wouldn't let them walk on the company or each other.    The facility was my responsibility to stay profitable and make a reasonable ROI.   At my last negotiation, I told the union leadership where we were going to end up before we ever started.   I knew how far the company was willing to go.   Also told them that one inch past that and the company would let them walk and send our business to another location.    They didn't believe me.   We were shut down for almost three months before they came back around.   They got what I told them they could get.   Shortly after that, they voted in new leadership.

[BF]

I hope so too baldo.  I've been working off and on with the local Union organizers/representatives since 2005 to get us a contract and signing up people.  They seem like good people. 

I've suffered a couple repercussions because of my efforts....nothing major just piddly stuff..which is still against the law, but I can't prove any of it.. 

This is the 3rd time we've tried to organize.  The first time out of over 650 folks, we lost by less than 40 votes.  The second time, the company actually gave a few people raises if they helped to scare people.  Thats against the law also, but there was never anything signed by anyone...so once again, no proof.  After the vote, those raise went by by.

The people that have been running this contract have a record of bullying and harassing people.  It's way past time the crap they have been pulling for decades comes to stop.

[Jersey mike]

Congrats on the vote. That will stop the lies about wages and other benefits you will negotiate. Unions are not perfect either but you should get a Wage and benefit package at the least, and they cannot fire you without just cause.  
Jambriwal

The new boss/contract manager has said things publicly in meetings that he loves firing people and is proud of letting go over a 100 people....and has said that the company needs to get rid of the "legacy" employees...meaning anyone over 50, which is most of the work force.

He came over to our facility for a meeting to convince us all how evil the Union is....first thing out of his mouth as he walked in the door was "am I an asshole?".  This guy is a peach...and we thought the last guy was pure evil (and believe me, he and his wingman buddy were).

At least we will have a contract for our employment that no one can be fired without just cause like before when everyone was an "at will" employee.

Congratulations BF. THAT'S what I mean when I'm talking about unions. I will just never understand how a working man can be against them. Don't anyone take this as a tirade and run with it. This is simply a validation of union representation.

I was IAM at USAir back in the day. They were OK, not great, not horrible. I hope they do good by you. Good luck!

Well let me give you the flip,side of that coin. We're a small family business, been in business since 1970, and due to changing dynamics of our business we are now more commercial work then residential when the business was first started. Just like many other companies we receive invitations to bid and look for projects to bid on. We submit bids on work all over NJ,PA,NY,CT, we've even gone into northern VA.

We put the time into our bids and we've established a good working relationship and confidence with many companies. This doesn't mean we are guaranteed work by any means and here is one example.

About 6 months ago we bid on a job and won the contract for a nice job just outside of Philly,PA.
We put out thousands for material once we did all our layout and we fabricated our frames which were delivered to the job site. The following day, we received a call from the job super asking us not to come, there were union workers picketing the worksite with our company name on their signs saying we're practicing unfair labor. There was a big blow up rat too.

The union waited for us to get as far as we did and once our material was onsite they basically shut down the job site. They has every opportunity to bid this job as we did. We pay our workers excellent wages and our insurance coverage fr every job is outstanding.

This little scheme by the union cost us thousands in labor which we were not able to paid for, it cost the contractor and owner more money out of their pockets. The union workers could not install anything without having their hands held and couldn't understand a basic layout of what was to be installed where and most didn't have tools or hardware to do installations.  They took it upon themselves to cut and alter frames which they butchered apart and cost even more because new glass needed to be ordered to fit what they decided to change costing the contractor even more money, not to mention all the extra finish work to cover up the disaster the great union guys did on our doors and frames.

So I'm glad you feel unions are good. We've had the big fancy cars pull up with the suits come in and try and talk us into being a union shop and they all get the same answer...."Get the F%#+ out! And don't come back"

[art]

Good for you. Having been a machinist for 52 years and most of the time in a union I wouldn't want to anywhere without a union. The union couldn't save my last good job sorry to say. I worked on jet engines in Socal for the GE until they decided to move overseas. About 200 people lost there jobs.I was probably the first because I didn't want to be restricted to being a machine operator for the remaining years there and took a voluntary layoff providing they didn't call me back and I got my severance pay. GE is just like the rest of them,moving out of the country.

[BF]

As I said, I know that there a lot of people on this board that absolutely hate unions....and im sure in some cases its absolutely justified....there is bad and good in all things, and I'm sorry for your experience, but that's apple to oranges to what we go through.  

Besides...this is a federal enclave and to strike is illegal.  Besides, we'll need a 66 and 2 thirds vote to call a strike anyway...that'll never happen here.  

We're simply asking for a collectively bargained contract that spells out our rights, pay and benefits in writing.....nothing more.  It's not evil.

[BF]

Baldo and Art.....are you still members of those unions....so that you can keep the union's pension?

[art]

Not me, the GE closed in 93 and all I could get were non union jobs after. Where I lived then there were no bigger shops to work at. I did some machine shop training as a teacher and not long after that moved to Prescott,Az. All that was there was small shops. Nine years later I retired with a pension from GE and SS.

[baldo]

Baldo and Art.....are you still members of those unions....so that you can keep the union's pension?

BF,

No, I'm not in the union anymore. I took a voluntary furlough in '02, carried seniority and recall rights for 24 months and chose not to return. I had started my upholstery business in 2000 and it was going pretty well, so I opted to be self employed for the next 5 years or so. I ended up back in the workforce for insurance reasons in '07, working on corporate jets in a non-union shop. I now work for Fedex which is non-union, but I would definitely welcome union representation. They play a bit fast and loose with work rules, but not enough to get too twisted up about. UPS is obviously a good comparison, they're Teamsters and have a pretty sweet deal going on...definitely the top of the heap.

As far as pension, yes, I started taking my USAir pension at age 50. What was left of it, that is. I'm in the PGBC fold, getting 50% of what it should be... The airline went through two bankruptcies and took those opportunities to cut our pensions and benefits. Also a 30% wage cut that took over 10 years to get back for some friends that have stayed on. Dec 11 would have been 27 years for me...

[baldo]

Congrats on the vote. That will stop the lies about wages and other benefits you will negotiate. Unions are not perfect either but you should get a Wage and benefit package at the least, and they cannot fire you without just cause.  
Jambriwal

The new boss/contract manager has said things publicly in meetings that he loves firing people and is proud of letting go over a 100 people....and has said that the company needs to get rid of the "legacy" employees...meaning anyone over 50, which is most of the work force.

He came over to our facility for a meeting to convince us all how evil the Union is....first thing out of his mouth as he walked in the door was "am I an asshole?".  This guy is a peach...and we thought the last guy was pure evil (and believe me, he and his wingman buddy were).

At least we will have a contract for our employment that no one can be fired without just cause like before when everyone was an "at will" employee.

Congratulations BF. THAT'S what I mean when I'm talking about unions. I will just never understand how a working man can be against them. Don't anyone take this as a tirade and run with it. This is simply a validation of union representation.

I was IAM at USAir back in the day. They were OK, not great, not horrible. I hope they do good by you. Good luck!

Well let me give you the flip,side of that coin. We're a small family business, been in business since 1970, and due to changing dynamics of our business we are now more commercial work then residential when the business was first started. Just like many other companies we receive invitations to bid and look for projects to bid on. We submit bids on work all over NJ,PA,NY,CT, we've even gone into northern VA.

We put the time into our bids and we've established a good working relationship and confidence with many companies. This doesn't mean we are guaranteed work by any means and here is one example.

About 6 months ago we bid on a job and won the contract for a nice job just outside of Philly,PA.
We put out thousands for material once we did all our layout and we fabricated our frames which were delivered to the job site. The following day, we received a call from the job super asking us not to come, there were union workers picketing the worksite with our company name on their signs saying we're practicing unfair labor. There was a big blow up rat too.

The union waited for us to get as far as we did and once our material was onsite they basically shut down the job site. They has every opportunity to bid this job as we did. We pay our workers excellent wages and our insurance coverage fr every job is outstanding.

This little scheme by the union cost us thousands in labor which we were not able to paid for, it cost the contractor and owner more money out of their pockets. The union workers could not install anything without having their hands held and couldn't understand a basic layout of what was to be installed where and most didn't have tools or hardware to do installations.  They took it upon themselves to cut and alter frames which they butchered apart and cost even more because new glass needed to be ordered to fit what they decided to change costing the contractor even more money, not to mention all the extra finish work to cover up the disaster the great union guys did on our doors and frames.

So I'm glad you feel unions are good. We've had the big fancy cars pull up with the suits come in and try and talk us into being a union shop and they all get the same answer...."Get the F%#+ out! And don't come back"

Mike,

That's definitely the bad side of the union equation.

I have a question. When you have to put up $$ for materials and labor to build prototypes or submit bids, are you ever able to make payment for your outlay part of the bid?

Bob

[dreamaker]

WOW! I use to belong to that union in the 70's, when I worked for a Fabrication company.  After I moved on, I did know if they were around any more.

[Romeo]

Congrats on the vote. That will stop the lies about wages and other benefits you will negotiate. Unions are not perfect either but you should get a Wage and benefit package at the least, and they cannot fire you without just cause.  
Jambriwal

The new boss/contract manager has said things publicly in meetings that he loves firing people and is proud of letting go over a 100 people....and has said that the company needs to get rid of the "legacy" employees...meaning anyone over 50, which is most of the work force.

He came over to our facility for a meeting to convince us all how evil the Union is....first thing out of his mouth as he walked in the door was "am I an asshole?".  This guy is a peach...and we thought the last guy was pure evil (and believe me, he and his wingman buddy were).

At least we will have a contract for our employment that no one can be fired without just cause like before when everyone was an "at will" employee.

what company is this, sounds like they have no business running a company.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Congrats on the vote. That will stop the lies about wages and other benefits you will negotiate. Unions are not perfect either but you should get a Wage and benefit package at the least, and they cannot fire you without just cause.  
Jambriwal

The new boss/contract manager has said things publicly in meetings that he loves firing people and is proud of letting go over a 100 people....and has said that the company needs to get rid of the "legacy" employees...meaning anyone over 50, which is most of the work force.

He came over to our facility for a meeting to convince us all how evil the Union is....first thing out of his mouth as he walked in the door was "am I an asshole?".  This guy is a peach...and we thought the last guy was pure evil (and believe me, he and his wingman buddy were).

At least we will have a contract for our employment that no one can be fired without just cause like before when everyone was an "at will" employee.

what company is this, sounds like they have no business running a company.

BF, be careful what you say. Romeo, there are plenty of companies and bosses like this. I once worked for a company that when we had a quarterly meeting and the #2 guy in the company thought us meat cutters were receiving more money than we deserved, told us all that he get could get trained monkeys to do what we do. Some peoples idea of motivating the workforce is a little skewed. We all had to sit there and belittled for 2 hours from a guy who was pulling in a million a year and we were barely scraping 50k with overtime. And this was a Union outfit. They can negotiate wages and benefits. But they have a hard time negotiating out stupidity.

[Jersey mike]

Congrats on the vote. That will stop the lies about wages and other benefits you will negotiate. Unions are not perfect either but you should get a Wage and benefit package at the least, and they cannot fire you without just cause.  
Jambriwal

The new boss/contract manager has said things publicly in meetings that he loves firing people and is proud of letting go over a 100 people....and has said that the company needs to get rid of the "legacy" employees...meaning anyone over 50, which is most of the work force.

He came over to our facility for a meeting to convince us all how evil the Union is....first thing out of his mouth as he walked in the door was "am I an asshole?".  This guy is a peach...and we thought the last guy was pure evil (and believe me, he and his wingman buddy were).

At least we will have a contract for our employment that no one can be fired without just cause like before when everyone was an "at will" employee.

Congratulations BF. THAT'S what I mean when I'm talking about unions. I will just never understand how a working man can be against them. Don't anyone take this as a tirade and run with it. This is simply a validation of union representation.

I was IAM at USAir back in the day. They were OK, not great, not horrible. I hope they do good by you. Good luck!

Well let me give you the flip,side of that coin. We're a small family business, been in business since 1970, and due to changing dynamics of our business we are now more commercial work then residential when the business was first started. Just like many other companies we receive invitations to bid and look for projects to bid on. We submit bids on work all over NJ,PA,NY,CT, we've even gone into northern VA.

We put the time into our bids and we've established a good working relationship and confidence with many companies. This doesn't mean we are guaranteed work by any means and here is one example.

About 6 months ago we bid on a job and won the contract for a nice job just outside of Philly,PA.
We put out thousands for material once we did all our layout and we fabricated our frames which were delivered to the job site. The following day, we received a call from the job super asking us not to come, there were union workers picketing the worksite with our company name on their signs saying we're practicing unfair labor. There was a big blow up rat too.

The union waited for us to get as far as we did and once our material was onsite they basically shut down the job site. They has every opportunity to bid this job as we did. We pay our workers excellent wages and our insurance coverage fr every job is outstanding.

This little scheme by the union cost us thousands in labor which we were not able to paid for, it cost the contractor and owner more money out of their pockets. The union workers could not install anything without having their hands held and couldn't understand a basic layout of what was to be installed where and most didn't have tools or hardware to do installations.  They took it upon themselves to cut and alter frames which they butchered apart and cost even more because new glass needed to be ordered to fit what they decided to change costing the contractor even more money, not to mention all the extra finish work to cover up the disaster the great union guys did on our doors and frames.

So I'm glad you feel unions are good. We've had the big fancy cars pull up with the suits come in and try and talk us into being a union shop and they all get the same answer...."Get the F%#+ out! And don't come back"

Mike,

That's definitely the bad side of the union equation.

I have a question. When you have to put up $$ for materials and labor to build prototypes or submit bids, are you ever able to make payment for your outlay part of the bid?

Bob

Bob,

every job is different in size and scope so the amount time invested is not the same for every bid we submit, but that comes out of our pocket.

all final contracts are structured basically the same, X # of $$ to be paid upon certain stages of completion. All of our initial costs typically come out of pocket, usually for material and fabrication, but we have a line of credit with our suppliers which usually carries us over until we receive a first payment to cover (all or the majority of) those costs.

[Jess Tolbirt]

the electrical union here, LU429 , lost almost all of its contractors a few years back,, they had 5 contractors left when all the companies closed down and opened back up non union, all due to the corruption of the IBEW

[dragonslayer]

In another 5-10 years it isn't going to be that easy finding skilled people to work as this generation just wants everything handed to them.Alot of companies are now starting to look for older people to work for them as the younger generation has no work ethics.They also have little to no shop training thanks to our school system teaching indoctrination instead of what is need to prosper in the real world.

[Rams]

They can negotiate wages and benefits. But they have a hard time negotiating out stupidity.

Rob,
Can't and won't defend the gent you were talking about but, this I will say.   Until you've walked a mile in the other guy's shoes, you really don't know the score.   That's true for both sides of the equation.

[The emperor has no clothes]

They can negotiate wages and benefits. But they have a hard time negotiating out stupidity.

Rob,
Can't and won't defend the gent you were talking about but, this I will say.   Until you've walked a mile in the other guy's shoes, you really don't know the score.   That's true for both sides of the equation.

I agree Ron. I've never been in upper management. I peaked at an early age a piddly Dept. Manager. I've worked both Union and Non Union. I've had good and bad leaders in both. But I will be forever grateful for my Union negotiated pension.

[Rams]

But I will be forever grateful for my Union negotiated pension.

This, I fully understand.

BTW, just in case you are not aware of it, I am available for adoption.    

[threevalks]

         Happy to hear that you VOTED in the Union. I have been in the UBC (Carpenters Union ) for 39 years. Best decision I ever made. I retired at age 60, with a great pension.

[BF]

Congrats on the vote. That will stop the lies about wages and other benefits you will negotiate. Unions are not perfect either but you should get a Wage and benefit package at the least, and they cannot fire you without just cause.  
Jambriwal

The new boss/contract manager has said things publicly in meetings that he loves firing people and is proud of letting go over a 100 people....and has said that the company needs to get rid of the "legacy" employees...meaning anyone over 50, which is most of the work force.

He came over to our facility for a meeting to convince us all how evil the Union is....first thing out of his mouth as he walked in the door was "am I an asshole?".  This guy is a peach...and we thought the last guy was pure evil (and believe me, he and his wingman buddy were).

At least we will have a contract for our employment that no one can be fired without just cause like before when everyone was an "at will" employee.

what company is this, sounds like they have no business running a company.

It's a conglomeration of the old company with a new name and new asshat in charge.  Same owner though.

[BF]

WOW! I use to belong to that union in the 70's, when I worked for a Fabrication company.  After I moved on, I did know if they were around any more.

The IAM is large and in charge around here.  They have contracts on all federal enclaves within a 100 miles of here.....and all of this area....except us that is, until now.  And now with us they have total coverage in this area.

[baldo]

WOW! I use to belong to that union in the 70's, when I worked for a Fabrication company.  After I moved on, I did know if they were around any more.

The IAM is large and in charge around here.  They have contracts on all federal enclaves within a 100 miles of here.....and all of this area....except us that is, until now.  And now with us they have total coverage in this area.

They're all about the numbers. The more dues payers the better. They don't care what you do, they want to be your union. Which isn't a bad thing....

When I was with the airline, they had us (mechs and related) and utility (cleaners). They pushed real hard to get the ramp into the mix, and succeeded. The company promptly took our pushback and receive duties away and gave it to the ramp. As a result, mech headcount went down around the system....there was some OT for damaged aircraft, though....

[BF]

What you have remember is that the union is a business...and just like any other business, they are there to make profit just like everyone else.  But you also have to remember and consider what you get in return for those dues you pay....which about a tank a gas month.