The End of Ethanol-Free Gasoline in the US

[gordonv]

Taken from my monthly News Letter from Goldwingdoc, and reposted here. With link to the discussion from Dec 19/16.

The End of Ethanol-Free Gasoline in the US

The federal mandate from the Environmental Protection Agency declaring the amount of ethanol to be mixed into the US fuel supply for 2017 has been released, and it's not good. The EPA states in its report that its corn/agriculture lobby-influenced goal is to completely eliminate all non-ethanol gasoline in the US.

This is bad news for owners of motorcycles not intended to run on ethanol fuel - which is most of them. Our older Goldwings are especially susceptible: ethanol turns the non-ethanol-compatible fuel hoses and seals to a sticky black mush, clogging our carburetors and creating a safety hazard.

Airplane owners who have an STC (supplemental type certificate) allowing them to run their aircraft on automotive fuel are bound by FAA regulations to use only zero-ethanol fuel. This is a safety-of-flight issue, as ethanol in aviation fuel can cause engine stoppage at altitude. They are faced with the prospect of not having any fuel available for their aircraft.

Read more about this issue, and what we might do about it:  The End of Ethanol-Free Fuel in the US

http://goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=35968

Link in the post to the EPA document.
https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2016-11/documents/420r16019.pdf

[Pete]

More Government stupidity. Will they never learn or listen!

[..]

Hmmmm. New QT gas stations near me have started selling ethanol free.

[dreamaker]

More Government stupidity. Will they never learn or listen!

It is just a means which were we have to recycle our  paid for products that we own, and keep spending our hard earned cash to keep them successful. With electric cars is the next level!

[Alberta Patriot]

Pure Gas Listings:
http://www.pure-gas.org/

[scooperhsd]

More Government stupidity. Will they never learn or listen!

They're listening alright - to the lobby that wants MORE ethanol !!!!!!!

[TallRider]

Durring Trump campaign I heard somewhere that Trump was going to end ethanol subsides this may fix that problem?  ???

[Tonysax]

In NJ you can only get pure gas sold in cans no pumps. I have one valk put away with stabil and run non ethanol in my standard for the winter. I am amazed by the difference in performance . Its like a new bike , I'm going to try to run the stuff 100% of the time. Even at $10 a gallon I think its worth it.

[98valk]

Taken from my monthly News Letter from Goldwingdoc, and reposted here. With link to the discussion from Dec 19/16.

The End of Ethanol-Free Gasoline in the US

The federal mandate from the Environmental Protection Agency declaring the amount of ethanol to be mixed into the US fuel supply for 2017 has been released, and it's not good. The EPA states in its report that its corn/agriculture lobby-influenced goal is to completely eliminate all non-ethanol gasoline in the US.

This is bad news for owners of motorcycles not intended to run on ethanol fuel - which is most of them. Our older Goldwings are especially susceptible: ethanol turns the non-ethanol-compatible fuel hoses and seals to a sticky black mush, clogging our carburetors and creating a safety hazard.

Airplane owners who have an STC (supplemental type certificate) allowing them to run their aircraft on automotive fuel are bound by FAA regulations to use only zero-ethanol fuel. This is a safety-of-flight issue, as ethanol in aviation fuel can cause engine stoppage at altitude. They are faced with the prospect of not having any fuel available for their aircraft.

Read more about this issue, and what we might do about it:  The End of Ethanol-Free Fuel in the US

http://goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=35968

Link in the post to the EPA document.
https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2016-11/documents/420r16019.pdf

Older Hondas sometime around late '70s early '80s have been made to run on 10% ethanol. EPA wants to go to 15% and then 20% in accordance with the law Bush jr signed and approved and pushed on him by the democrat controlled houses. those higher % can start to hurt rubber parts, however anything over 20% starts to be the real problems for parts.  15% and 20% most likely will require carb rejetting.
 http://www.randakksblog.com/disclaimers/#more-1272  ethanol info
http://www.randakksblog.com/more-on-fuel-and-fuel-additives-fear-the-corn/

[old2soon]

So the current turds in charge at deception central Know MORE than the engineers that design the engines?   Last I heard that Even if you put 15% ethanol fuel in your 10% ethanol fuel rated car by accident it WILL void the manufactures warranty. BUT deception central don't take any but their own council. And the outside forces that run d c. And whoever has the deepest pockets. And whoever guarantees them a good job after gubmint "service"!   RIDE SAFE.

[Rams]

Airplane owners who have an STC (supplemental type certificate) allowing them to run their aircraft on automotive fuel are bound by FAA regulations to use only zero-ethanol fuel. This is a safety-of-flight issue, as ethanol in aviation fuel can cause engine stoppage at altitude. They are faced with the prospect of not having any fuel available for their aircraft.

OK, to start with, let me say, I am not a fan of alcohol fuels but, the above statement is pure BS.
Aircraft owners that have the STC, got that certificate in order to save money versus buying AVGAS.

AVGAS is much more expensive, significantly higher.   So, they do have an alternative.   It does sound like we (motorcyclist) may not have an alternative though.   This does not make me happy.

[Jess from VA]

Hang the EPA.  One by one, or make it a grand ceremony.

I have 21 carburetors.  Corn gas is crap.

[cookiedough]

living here in the midwest corn belt,  E10 is common only way that I know of to get non-ethanol gas is some gas stations have 91 octane NON ethanol, not a lot but enough to drive to within 5-15 miles of my house in case I have to have it.

Personally,  I have used E10 87 octane gas no issues (knock on wood) for past few decades no issues, but I can see if that gas is not used in a few months that issues will arise.

I have tried 91 octane non ethanol on my Valk a few tanks before and have noticed the bike likes to idle 200 or so rpms higher than normal but see no difference in power/acceleration and not any noticeable mpg increase.  Thus, I will stick with E10 87 octane since I do not let my cycle sit for more than 2-3 weeks (except winter when I do put in the last 2 tanks 91 octane non ethanol gas).

That said, I have used e85 gas in my flex fuel truck  e85 capable and will NEVER use that crap again.  The shifting gears even in an automatic is not smooth (is jerky at times), no performance increase, and loose 3.5-4 mpg  from 17 to 13.5 avg mpg, so the price savings of E85 is not over 25-30% vs. E10 gas, so NO benefit of corn fed E85 gas at all.   Does not help that I live within 13 miles of an ethanol plant producing that crap either. 

Personally,  as long as E10 gas has not harmed me in anyway,  I will continue to use it but darn glad 91 octane NON ethanol gas is around even if it is right now about 60 cents per gallon more.  I use 91 octane non ethanol gas in my rototiller and other small engines not used much and also my 250cc scooter since it does run better with that and is recommended as well also getting better mpg and better performance in that 19.3hp engine.... 

I for one would like to see E85 gas banned since offers NO benefits and MORE harm than good even if it puts some employees/businesses out of business. 

[fudgie]

living here in the midwest corn belt,  E10 is common only way that I know of to get non-ethanol gas is some gas stations have 91 octane NON ethanol, not a lot but enough to drive to within 5-15 miles of my house in case I have to have it.

Personally,  I have used E10 87 octane gas no issues (knock on wood) for past few decades no issues, but I can see if that gas is not used in a few months that issues will arise.

I have tried 91 octane non ethanol on my Valk a few tanks before and have noticed the bike likes to idle 200 or so rpms higher than normal but see no difference in power/acceleration and not any noticeable mpg increase.  Thus, I will stick with E10 87 octane since I do not let my cycle sit for more than 2-3 weeks (except winter when I do put in the last 2 tanks 91 octane non ethanol gas).

That said, I have used e85 gas in my flex fuel truck  e85 capable and will NEVER use that crap again.  The shifting gears even in an automatic is not smooth (is jerky at times), no performance increase, and loose 3.5-4 mpg  from 17 to 13.5 avg mpg, so the price savings of E85 is not over 25-30% vs. E10 gas, so NO benefit of corn fed E85 gas at all.   Does not help that I live within 13 miles of an ethanol plant producing that crap either. 

Personally,  as long as E10 gas has not harmed me in anyway,  I will continue to use it but darn glad 91 octane NON ethanol gas is around even if it is right now about 60 cents per gallon more.  I use 91 octane non ethanol gas in my rototiller and other small engines not used much and also my 250cc scooter since it does run better with that and is recommended as well also getting better mpg and better performance in that 19.3hp engine.... 

I for one would like to see E85 gas banned since offers NO benefits and MORE harm than good even if it puts some employees/businesses out of business. 

I run E10 in my Valk anytime I'm west of the Mississippi R. Seems to run better, imho.
My Z71 can run on E85. Runs great on it except the 2 mpg loss.

[Wizzard]

I run Ethanol in my valk all the time. I have never had a single problem with it.

[..]

I run Ethanol in my valk all the time. I have never had a single problem with it.

Me neither, but I swear hand on heart that my seat of the pant test bed can feel an increase in throttle response using non ethanol.

Plus of course there's the increase in mpg using non ethanol.

[98valk]

I run Ethanol in my valk all the time. I have never had a single problem with it.

Me neither, but I swear hand on heart that my seat of the pant test bed can feel an increase in throttle response using non ethanol.

Plus of course there's the increase in mpg using non ethanol.

Ethanol gas has a lower BTU content than non-ethanol gas. hence less power and mpg.

[fudgie]

I run Ethanol in my valk all the time. I have never had a single problem with it.

Me neither, but I swear hand on heart that my seat of the pant test bed can feel an increase in throttle response using non ethanol.

Plus of course there's the increase in mpg using non ethanol.

I get 33 mpg regardless of e10 or 87

[..]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a17240/how-does-ethanol-impact-fuel-efficiency/

[Jess from VA]

I run Ethanol in my valk all the time. I have never had a single problem with it.

Me neither, but I swear hand on heart that my seat of the pant test bed can feel an increase in throttle response using non ethanol.

Plus of course there's the increase in mpg using non ethanol.

So does my butt dino Paul.  (and I was trying to be as objective as possible).  From my closest pure gas station, I can get right on the freeway.  Nail it on the entrance ramp and hold it open and the bike is faster and stronger, no question about it.  And I do get a few more MPG.

No mistake, with everything tuned up right, it's plenty fast on 10 percent corn-crap, but better without it.

A little extra push is nice, but for me the main issue is internal carb problems with corn and the requirement that I be forever vigilant with two bikes and multiple carbed machines.  Remembering how old gas is, dosing gas all the time, running dosed gas thru carbs, dumping gas out of lawnmowers and other equipment, dropping/cleaning carb bowls, dumping older gas in the car.  You can only trust corn gas for about two months or even less, esp in summer heat.

All gas can get old and/or bad, but pure gas has a much longer window than corn gas.

I run both bikes, but I can only run one at a time, and I switch back and forth every few months, not weeks (mainly because I have to work to cram one up against a wall to get them both in my shed).  I have not let my valks carbs get gummed up in 10 years, but I have to keep after it.  Despite all this I have had to replace and rebuild multiple carbs in my other machinery, take them into a shop and pay when I can't do it.  And of course this and all shops are kept busy year round with corn gas problems.  They readily admit it.   

[cookiedough]

living here in the midwest corn belt,  E10 is common only way that I know of to get non-ethanol gas is some gas stations have 91 octane NON ethanol, not a lot but enough to drive to within 5-15 miles of my house in case I have to have it.

Personally,  I have used E10 87 octane gas no issues (knock on wood) for past few decades no issues, but I can see if that gas is not used in a few months that issues will arise.

I have tried 91 octane non ethanol on my Valk a few tanks before and have noticed the bike likes to idle 200 or so rpms higher than normal but see no difference in power/acceleration and not any noticeable mpg increase.  Thus, I will stick with E10 87 octane since I do not let my cycle sit for more than 2-3 weeks (except winter when I do put in the last 2 tanks 91 octane non ethanol gas).

That said, I have used e85 gas in my flex fuel truck  e85 capable and will NEVER use that crap again.  The shifting gears even in an automatic is not smooth (is jerky at times), no performance increase, and loose 3.5-4 mpg  from 17 to 13.5 avg mpg, so the price savings of E85 is not over 25-30% vs. E10 gas, so NO benefit of corn fed E85 gas at all.   Does not help that I live within 13 miles of an ethanol plant producing that crap either. 

Personally,  as long as E10 gas has not harmed me in anyway,  I will continue to use it but darn glad 91 octane NON ethanol gas is around even if it is right now about 60 cents per gallon more.  I use 91 octane non ethanol gas in my rototiller and other small engines not used much and also my 250cc scooter since it does run better with that and is recommended as well also getting better mpg and better performance in that 19.3hp engine.... 

I for one would like to see E85 gas banned since offers NO benefits and MORE harm than good even if it puts some employees/businesses out of business. 

I run E10 in my Valk anytime I'm west of the Mississippi R. Seems to run better, imho.
My Z71 can run on E85. Runs great on it except the 2 mpg loss.

fudgie,  do NOT do it on your chevy truck,  E85 causes internal issues that is a fact regardless of what the mfg. and E85 reps state.  There is a reason on why E85 gas has to have special parts in the engine to make it run on E85.  You are lucky your chevy only looses 2 mpg,  my former chevy silverado and my current tundra lost 3.5-4 mpg E85 vs. E10.  E10 is fine, just would be very skeptical if they push E15 or E20 will be having all kinds of issues then for sure.

[cookiedough]

I run Ethanol in my valk all the time. I have never had a single problem with it.

Me neither, but I swear hand on heart that my seat of the pant test bed can feel an increase in throttle response using non ethanol.

Plus of course there's the increase in mpg using non ethanol.

I get 33 mpg regardless of e10 or 87

if you get fudgie 33 mpg on a chevy V8 truck,  you best keep it forever.  I have not seen one V8 truck EVER get over 20 hwy. mpg. even driving 50 mph level roads for 100's of miles.

[Steve K (IA)]

I run Ethanol in my valk all the time. I have never had a single problem with it.

Me neither, but I swear hand on heart that my seat of the pant test bed can feel an increase in throttle response using non ethanol.

Plus of course there's the increase in mpg using non ethanol.

I get 33 mpg regardless of e10 or 87

Same here.  No difference in MPG.  Been using 10% ethanol 99% of the time in my '00 Valk since new and in my '97 since I picked it up in 2004.  No carb issues. 

[Oss]

no choice here
so I run 87 with 10%

I am more concerned with GMO corn being forced on my
family than ethanol gas but thanks for the heads up.

Neither party will address gmo corn you can be sure too much money at stake for monsanto

[98valk]

no choice here
so I run 87 with 10%

I am more concerned with GMO corn being forced on my
family than ethanol gas but thanks for the heads up.

Neither party will address gmo corn you can be sure too much money at stake for monsanto

monsanto might be owned by Bayer soon.   monsanto feeds people poisonous food and bayer has the antidotes. now they will be one big happy family.

control the food, medicine and water and the people will submit.

[fudgie]

no choice here
so I run 87 with 10%

I am more concerned with GMO corn being forced on my
family than ethanol gas but thanks for the heads up.

Neither party will address gmo corn you can be sure too much money at stake for monsanto

monsanto might be owned by Bayer soon.   monsanto feeds people poisonous food and bayer has the antidotes. now they will be one big happy family.

control the food, medicine and water and the people will submit.

Lets go back to the corn of the 1800's and have people starve. 

[fudgie]

I run Ethanol in my valk all the time. I have never had a single problem with it.

Me neither, but I swear hand on heart that my seat of the pant test bed can feel an increase in throttle response using non ethanol.

Plus of course there's the increase in mpg using non ethanol.

I get 33 mpg regardless of e10 or 87

if you get fudgie 33 mpg on a chevy V8 truck,  you best keep it forever.  I have not seen one V8 truck EVER get over 20 hwy. mpg. even driving 50 mph level roads for 100's of miles.

I mean my valk gets 33 mpg. My z71 does get over 20 mpg but only once it drops to V4. 

[cookiedough]

I run Ethanol in my valk all the time. I have never had a single problem with it.

Me neither, but I swear hand on heart that my seat of the pant test bed can feel an increase in throttle response using non ethanol.

Plus of course there's the increase in mpg using non ethanol.

I get 33 mpg regardless of e10 or 87

if you get fudgie 33 mpg on a chevy V8 truck,  you best keep it forever.  I have not seen one V8 truck EVER get over 20 hwy. mpg. even driving 50 mph level roads for 100's of miles.

I mean my valk gets 33 mpg. My z71 does get over 20 mpg but only once it drops to V4. 

oh,  my bad, I get it now..   

man though,  only 33 for the Valk and over 20 for the truck, seems odd indeed I get 35-36 with Valk and 17 with my truck but my truck is all time V8, none of that displacement on demand B.S.    Thinking you baby the chevy and rat rod the Valk? 

[Wizzard]

i always rat rod my valk. I could care less about the mileage. Its about fun. And that's the price of it.

[fudgie]

I run Ethanol in my valk all the time. I have never had a single problem with it.

Me neither, but I swear hand on heart that my seat of the pant test bed can feel an increase in throttle response using non ethanol.

Plus of course there's the increase in mpg using non ethanol.

I get 33 mpg regardless of e10 or 87

if you get fudgie 33 mpg on a chevy V8 truck,  you best keep it forever.  I have not seen one V8 truck EVER get over 20 hwy. mpg. even driving 50 mph level roads for 100's of miles.

I mean my valk gets 33 mpg. My z71 does get over 20 mpg but only once it drops to V4. 

oh,  my bad, I get it now..   

man though,  only 33 for the Valk and over 20 for the truck, seems odd indeed I get 35-36 with Valk and 17 with my truck but my truck is all time V8, none of that displacement on demand B.S.    Thinking you baby the chevy and rat rod the Valk? 

Gotta baby it till she is paid off! 

[cookiedough]

I run Ethanol in my valk all the time. I have never had a single problem with it.

Me neither, but I swear hand on heart that my seat of the pant test bed can feel an increase in throttle response using non ethanol.

Plus of course there's the increase in mpg using non ethanol.

I get 33 mpg regardless of e10 or 87

if you get fudgie 33 mpg on a chevy V8 truck,  you best keep it forever.  I have not seen one V8 truck EVER get over 20 hwy. mpg. even driving 50 mph level roads for 100's of miles.

I mean my valk gets 33 mpg. My z71 does get over 20 mpg but only once it drops to V4. 

oh,  my bad, I get it now..   

man though,  only 33 for the Valk and over 20 for the truck, seems odd indeed I get 35-36 with Valk and 17 with my truck but my truck is all time V8, none of that displacement on demand B.S.    Thinking you baby the chevy and rat rod the Valk? 

Gotta baby it till she is paid off! 

Nah, drive it like you stole it, that is what a warranty is for if you got a warranty on it?   

If no warranty, then guess a little babying cannot hurt.

[Black Pearl's Captain]

In NJ you can only get pure gas sold in cans no pumps. I have one valk put away with stabil and run non ethanol in my standard for the winter. I am amazed by the difference in performance . Its like a new bike , I'm going to try to run the stuff 100% of the time. Even at $10 a gallon I think its worth it.

86 or 91 octane pure gas is about 25 cents more per gallon here where I live. 86 is all over but the 91 is a bit harder to find.

[..]

Does regular ethanol free gas have the same power as premium ethanol added gas?