Politcal Rants and Disrespect

[JimC]

While the subject has been brought up AGAIN, I am not sure I like the idea of a separate section for posting political banter. This board has developed a personality of sorts, and that is definitely part of it.

But personally, I think it would be great to have a section to post ride reports. That way the reports from Joe, Michael K, (and others that take the time to do so) would not get lost in the shuffle.

I love reading them, and it would be nice to be able to go to one section to find them if I wanted to look again.

Jim

[Willow]

First I need to make it crystal clear that I am expressing my own view on this subject.  My views do not necessarily represent the position of the VRCC staff.  You know sometimes my views do not even reflect the official position of my wife.

My point is not that we cannot discuss politics or any other subject.  It is a general board.  My point is that posts highly disrespectful and/or ridiculing to those who  disagree have a damaging impact on the ongoing life of the VRCC community.  I am not going to say whether it is right or wrong for people to react the way they do.  That's not my point.  My point is that if after you've been told that something is detrimental to the life of the community you continue to do that thing I can only assume that you simply don't care for the ongoing welfare of the community.

The member who most recently asked to be removed didn't just say that the posts were offensive to him.  He said or implied that the tone of the posts often left him feeling that his values were being attacked or ridiculed and he could not resist being compelled to defend and even get caught up into the disrespectful tone.

I will tell you honestly that my initial impression regarding my values is that anyone who holds a different viewpoint is driven by some level of stupidity.  I don't think I'm alone.  To express this openly would be detrimental to respectful communication so time and again I exercise the option of demonstrating how well my filter works.  Sometimes I don't do such a great job.  Some practices may help.  We don't have these issues at InZane or other gatherings.  Before you post maybe it would be worthwhile considering what you would say face to face.  Don't kid yourself about that.  I'm pretty open but honestly it's easy to slip into the mode of typing what one would not say in a respectful face to face conversation.  

Posting pictures that ridicule positions that you know some of your friends hold is not respectful.  Repeatedly attacking in a demeaning manner public figures that you know some of your friends admire does not contribute to improving friendships.  Using demeaning pet names for public figures probably doesn't help.  It only makes you look small.

We already have a rule against personal attacks.  My opinion is that if you say you said or did such and such it is usually not a personal attack if truthful.  If you say you are such and such in a derogatory manner that is a personal attack.  English is a wonderful language.  You can be singular or refer to a group.

It's a general board.  No one has yet limited what you can converse about.  Posting more than one new thread on the same day about a non-Valkyrie topic is probably excessive.  Introducing political disdain into a non-political thread is likely a display of more juvenile behavior than is helpful.  Openly ridiculing someone's position on anything will likely not change anyone's mind.

It was said earlier that the VRCC is not for the F6B.  I personally believe that what attracts some of us to the classic Valkyrie is the same thing that attracts some to the second generation Valkyrie or F6b.  We do have, by the way, an 1800 Tech board.  If you don't particularly like the classic Valkyrie, the second generation Valkyrie or the F6B keep it to yourself or post it on another club's board.  This club is for riders who like the Valkyrie or the 2nd Gen Valkyrie or the F6B.

Let's do what we can to promote the welfare of this community that some of have come to love.  Let's behave in such a manner that we appear to be as respectful and caring as we aspire to be.  Let's act like we are old enough to qualify for a driver's license with a motorcycle endorsement.

What we have in common is our attraction to the Valkyrie and how it contributes to our lives and out friendships.  Let's keep that in mind.  Let's make this place more of a place that we all like enough and want to be.    

[Robert]

I have finally come to the conclusion that there is no institution that there is not conflict in. We see it in churches we see it in any institution that man is a part of.

I am surprised and somewhat nauseated that some really do not contribute to many posts yet use leaving and having no self control as an excuse for leaving. Plus all are chided because we lost a member. I would personally say its the person who left that has a personal problem not the board and that may be projected out on the board.

One of the most egregious posts on this board to me personally was the one that the great OZ posted since the Valkyrie was no longer being made and it was quite a few years down the line that the board would probably close in short order. Obviously this didn't happen and thank you to those who took control. But it says one thing to me, this board has a life of its own. To censor those who come and post are these the ones that should be chided or the ones that leave under a pretense of not being able to handle it and Of course within reason.

In business no matter how well you run it there will always be people who decide not to frequent that business any longer. Sometimes the reason they left is true other times not and sometimes they just leave. One customer that does not come back is not the way to tell how well the business is doing or even base your business on that one persons views or attitudes. The business usually stands with a life somewhat of its own guided by its owners and people will come and go based on their desire to be there not necessarily basing on the objections of those who left.

  This person who left was not even riding and would post on his car rides not motorcycle rides and this was accepted and enjoyed by everyone. But we still see that this was not good enough to keep him and ultimately we see him leave and say it was because he didn't like posts and felt attacked in his beliefs.

We accepted him even though he didn't ride anymore, but he did not accept us, so who is the one that should be chided?

Since he didn't have a motorcycle should he have been allowed to post?

People who ride motorcycles are different and have different ideas but they ride together. Just because someones idea is different doesn't mean they dont like you.

No one has stopped anyone from posting any post motorcycle related or stopped those posts from being bumped??

I say its the ones who are committed to the board are the ones that all should worry about, not the ones who left for whatever reason.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I have finally come to the conclusion that there is no institution that there is not conflict in. We see it in churches we see it in any institution that man is a part of.

I am surprised and somewhat nauseated that some really do not contribute to many posts yet use leaving and having no self control as an excuse for leaving. Plus all are chided because we lost a member. I would personally say its the person who left that has a personal problem not the board and that may be projected out on the board.

One of the most egregious posts on this board to me personally was the one that the great OZ posted since the Valkyrie was no longer being made and it was quite a few years down the line that the board would probably close in short order. Obviously this didn't happen and thank you to those who took control. But it says one thing to me, this board has a life of its own. To censor those who come and post are these the ones that should be chided or the ones that leave under a pretense of not being able to handle it and Of course within reason.

In business no matter how well you run it there will always be people who decide not to frequent that business any longer. Sometimes the reason they left is true other times not and sometimes they just leave. One customer that does not come back is not the way to tell how well the business is doing or even base your business on that one persons views or attitudes. The business usually stands with a life somewhat of its own guided by its owners and people will come and go based on their desire to be there not necessarily basing on the objections of those who left.

  This person who left was not even riding and would post on his car rides not motorcycle rides and this was accepted and enjoyed by everyone. But we still see that this was not good enough to keep him and ultimately we see him leave and say it was because he didn't like posts and felt attacked in his beliefs.

We accepted him even though he didn't ride anymore, but he did not accept us, so who is the one that should be chided?

Since he didn't have a motorcycle should he have been allowed to post?

People who ride motorcycles are different and have different ideas but they ride together. Just because someones idea is different doesn't mean they dont like you.

No one has stopped anyone from posting any post motorcycle related or stopped those posts from being bumped??

I say its the ones who are committed to the board are the ones that all should worry about, not the ones who left for whatever reason.

Wayne and I had different views on some things. But I feel a great need to stand up for him here. He is a man of honor. He is man who has not showed disrespect to any that I remember. He is a man who contributed many fine posts here. He is a man who served his country in time of war.
  I would be lucky if I could honestly say just one of those things about myself. If any of us can come close to those qualities then maybe, just maybe they can be critical. I don't know many here who can.
  It's just quite possible to take the man at his word. He just got tired of the bullshit. And I feel a deep regret for being part of that.

[baldo]

I have finally come to the conclusion that there is no institution that there is not conflict in. We see it in churches we see it in any institution that man is a part of.

I am surprised and somewhat nauseated that some really do not contribute to many posts yet use leaving and having no self control as an excuse for leaving. Plus all are chided because we lost a member. I would personally say its the person who left that has a personal problem not the board and that may be projected out on the board.

One of the most egregious posts on this board to me personally was the one that the great OZ posted since the Valkyrie was no longer being made and it was quite a few years down the line that the board would probably close in short order. Obviously this didn't happen and thank you to those who took control. But it says one thing to me, this board has a life of its own. To censor those who come and post are these the ones that should be chided or the ones that leave under a pretense of not being able to handle it and Of course within reason.

In business no matter how well you run it there will always be people who decide not to frequent that business any longer. Sometimes the reason they left is true other times not and sometimes they just leave. One customer that does not come back is not the way to tell how well the business is doing or even base your business on that one persons views or attitudes. The business usually stands with a life somewhat of its own guided by its owners and people will come and go based on their desire to be there not necessarily basing on the objections of those who left.

  This person who left was not even riding and would post on his car rides not motorcycle rides and this was accepted and enjoyed by everyone. But we still see that this was not good enough to keep him and ultimately we see him leave and say it was because he didn't like posts and felt attacked in his beliefs.

We accepted him even though he didn't ride anymore, but he did not accept us, so who is the one that should be chided?

Since he didn't have a motorcycle should he have been allowed to post?

People who ride motorcycles are different and have different ideas but they ride together. Just because someones idea is different doesn't mean they dont like you.

No one has stopped anyone from posting any post motorcycle related or stopped those posts from being bumped??

I say its the ones who are committed to the board are the ones that all should worry about, not the ones who left for whatever reason.

Wayne and I had different views on some things. But I feel a great need to stand up for him here. He is a man of honor. He is man who has not showed disrespect to any that I remember. He is a man who contributed many fine posts here. He is a man who served his country in time of war.
  I would be lucky if I could honestly say just one of those things about myself. If any of us can come close to those qualities then maybe, just maybe they can be critical. I don't know many here who can.
  It's just quite possible to take the man at his word. He just got tired of the bullshit. And I feel a deep regret for being part of that.

Exactly right, Rob. I don't know how long Wayne was a member, but I suspect it was longer than many, if not most on this board. His decision to stop riding a motorcycle, I suspect, was based on his physical condition/age, however you want to term it.

There's nothing that I know of that says you have to be throwing a leg over to be a member, and if there was, if anyone deserved to be 'grandfathered' it's Wayne.

He and I didn't see eye to eye on much, but I definitely respected his views and accepted them for exactly the same reason.

I'm a bit saddened to see him take this path. But like someone mentioned, he may very well be back at some point.

I'd like to see that.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I would to Bob. I'm afraid he's finally had enough though.  He will be missed.

[Robert]

Ok lets take this one step further, do you feel you drove Wayne out? or was it a personal decision?

I dont take personal responsibility for Wayne's decision regardless of how much I liked the man that is what the whole thing boils down to.
 
If I left the board today and said Baldo or Meathead hurt my feelings or sensibilities I dont think either one of you would shed a tear, in fact there may even be cause for celebration among many But it would be my choice and I would not expect the board to change because of it. Who would it actually reflect upon me or you? It has no reflection on who I am in my life or anything except something I may be going through.

Sometimes life can get overwhelming, and we feel for everyone that feels that way. But I dont think its a problem of the board.

I would ask all, if you walked away from here how much in your life would change? If you said alot then you need to get a life if you would miss the board then I agree but lets put it in perspective, please.

The drama is just waaaayyyyy too much.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Ok lets take this one step further, do you feel you drove Wayne out? or was it a personal decision?

I dont take personal responsibility for Wayne's decision regardless of how much I liked the man that is what the whole thing boils down to.
 
If I left the board today and said Baldo or Meathead hurt my feelings or sensibilities I dont think either one of you would shed a tear, in fact there may even be cause for celebration among many But it would be my choice and I would not expect the board to change because of it. Who would it actually reflect upon me or you? It has no reflection on who I am in my life or anything except something I may be going through.

Sometimes life can get overwhelming, and we feel for everyone that feels that way. But I dont think its a problem of the board.

I would ask all, if you walked away from here how much in your life would change? If you said alot then you need to get a life if you would miss the board then I agree but lets put it in perspective, please.

The drama is just waaaayyyyy too much.

I hope I didn't drive him out. I'm just saying we should treat him with the respect he deserves.

[f6gal]

Wayne was not the person that requested to break all ties.  It was just coincidental timing.  Wayne's latest post on FB regarding the VRCC was that he was going to wait awhile until the PMS blows over. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

Wayne was not the person that requested to break all ties.  It was just coincidental timing.  Wayne's latest post on FB regarding the VRCC was that he was going to wait awhile until the PMS blows over. 

[Bighead]

 ???

[michaelyoung254]

I've been following this thread since the beginning, and feel that I may need to throw my .02 in this as well. While I hate to see those such as Wayne choose to leave the board as I really enjoy reading his posts, I must admit that it is their decision to do so because nobody is forcing them to leave. I can certainly understand about the offensive posts, and the near constant attacks by some members on others, but in all honesty, it's not all one sided either, as there's plenty of blame on both sides of the political coin.

I will admit that I fall on the pretty squarely on the conservative side of the fence, and I've "ignored" a few (2 or 3) of who I consider the more radical "liberal" posters who in my opinion rarely or never "add" anything of value to the conversation, but rather only seem to attack those who may disagree with their opinion. After reading the almost constant attacks by these "assholes", they finally pissed me off enough whereas I have "ignored" their posts so they can't piss me off anymore. Now with that being said, there ARE also some conservative members who basically do the exact same thing, but the only difference is that they are acting like assholes toward the more liberal members. If I’m going to be honest here, I also admit that the only reason I haven't "ignored" them as well is that I don't find them as offensive (mainly because they are arguing from the same side of the fence that I happen to sit on) despite the fact that they're still being an asshole.

My point is this, due to the fact that we're one big family, and there's always going to be a difference of opinion. I agree with those who are calling for a new board. Instead of a "Political" board, perhaps there could be one that is "Motorcycle Only" or "Ride Reports & Other Motorcycle Stuff" or something like that. Leave the "General" board for everything else including political discussions. This way, those who don't want to "wade" through a sea of crap to find a good ride report or other motorcycle stuff can avoid the "other" stuff all together.

Just a thought!


Mike

[Willow]

I have finally come to the conclusion ...

  This person who left was not even riding and ... ultimately we see him leave and say it was because he didn't like posts and felt attacked in his beliefs.

We accepted him even though he didn't ride anymore, but he did not accept us, so who is the one that should be chided?
....
I say itgs the ones who are committed to the board are the ones that all should worry about, not the ones who left for whatever reason. 

Robert, you and others are dead wrong both in the details you have assumed and in the conclusion to which you have arrived.

Wayne, Solo1, was not the member to whom I referred.  Further the member to whom I referred was not the first or even that rare as I clearly made known.

Disrespect is not acceptable.  Ridicule is not acceptable.  Period.  Political discussion is not the real problem.  The inclusion and repeated practice of ridicule and disrespect is a problem.

As to whom should be chided, I know myself well enough to know that when I go so far as to chide someone you may rest assured that it is whom should be chided.

If any one of you sees a post that you believe includes a personal attack either on the individual level or on a group of VRCC members feel free to click on "Report to Moderator".  You are the primary line of defense against unacceptable behavior.

I'm as tired of the crap as much as was the one who asked to have his registration removed.  I simply am not planning my departure at this time.  For the record I am as tired of it from people on my own side of the division as I am from the opposition.  Just so you know I am conservative enough that I consider most conservatives on this board to be a  bit liberal.       

[Karen]

OK, Boys and Girls, Listen Up! There is no way on God's Green Earth that you are going to get me off of this board, no matter how hard you might try, using your sexist, racist, homo and hetero sexual, and misogynistic attacks on me. Every single day. You are stuck with me. Get over it. Have a nice day. Love you! Is it spring yet?

[DK]

If I remember that was for photostash. I tried over and over ,off and on for 3 years doing that. I finally just gave up. It probably seems simple for many. But I would get things like saying the file size was too big. And some other issues. I couldn't figure out how to fix the issues. For computer illiterate people like me photobucket is the bomb. Previously I kind of figured out Dropbox, but it would only show to me half the time. I'm here to declare, if any of you are having problems posting pics follow Wiggy's photobucket guide. 

You missed my edit to my post.

I can no longer find a  photostash app for either iPad or iPhone   

[Rams]

Just so you know I am conservative enough that I consider most conservatives on this board to be a  bit liberal.       

Now, there's a scary thought!!!   

Just pull'n yer chain Carl............   

[saddlesore]

 Being polite and tolerant can take you a long way in life. Turning the other cheek can mean a lot when you're on line.
 If people would slow down a bit before posting they might not say something that could hurt someone.   I have deleted many comments I wrote because I felt they were stupid, irrelevant or could offend someone.  And some of them still slip through. If there was ever something that offended me I don't remember it.
This thread has brought out a lot of ideas to continue or improve the site, As with most areas of your life you glean what you want from it.
I've met very few of you here so when I read the posts of any subjects I get to know a little about the people that wrote them.
Most of the problems with the Valkyrie are covered in the tech section so there might seem like there is no need for some of the veteran riders but I learned a long time ago that "seniors" have very interesting stories and a lot of wisdom to pass on. Now that I am a  senior myself I can only hope that I can live up to some of them.  I hope that some of the people that left come and visit once in a while.
I don't post ride reports because you'd have to be there to feel it. You know what I mean. 
We all know the golden rule so apply that to this forum.       
 

[specialdose]

  
    I think this is my 4th yr with the VRCC family. I have enjoyed it very much and have learned a lot about our beloved Valkyries.

    I have 0 interest in ball sports of any kind. I know that is odd for a man just turned 70, just don't. When I see a post about it, I just move on. If I open one with a catchy title and discover  is about one of them I close it and move on.

    I realize that may not be a fair analogy with the politics and some time religious post but point being, just don't read them or participate.

    I think we over all have a wonderful eclectic group here on this forum. Not bad mouthing the VOIC but participation there is slim at best. I enjoyed this forum long before my Gurl came into my life.

     Some discussions get a little heated but that is life. I am of the conservative persuasion but enjoy all perspectives. I am glad to see Paxton back. My goodness there so many opinions on tires,oil, riding styles etc. etc. and those are about our most common interest, the Honda Valkyrie. Though I can not read the mind of a man that has passed I think Joe Boyd would be proud of this forum his creation brought about.

     I know nothing of running a internet web site. Seems to me our volunteer moderators have enough on their plates and doing a very good job I might add without having to create another sub group for post.

     I thank my .02 here is about this thread and Wayne,s as well on leaving.

     You guys and gals here have caused me to laugh, cry and inspired my prayers for you. I don't think anything that ain't broke needs fixing and as for me, this board is not.

[Willow]

Just so you know I am conservative enough that I consider most conservatives on this board to be a  bit liberal.       

Now, there's a scary thought!!!    

Be afraid.  Be very afraid.     

[3fan4life]

OK, Boys and Girls, Listen Up! There is no way on God's Green Earth that you are going to get me off of this board, no matter how hard you might try, using your sexist, racist, homo and hetero sexual, and misogynistic attacks on me. Every single day. You are stuck with me. Get over it. Have a nice day. Love you! Is it spring yet?

That's a good thing!

We like having you around here!

[signart]

Just so you know I am conservative enough that I consider most conservatives on this board to be a  bit liberal.       

Now, there's a scary thought!!!    

Be afraid.  Be very afraid.     

Here, I thought I was all alone