NASA knife

[Hook#3287]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4136080/Nasa-creates-KNIFE-never-need-sharpened.html

I've been considering a new kitchen knife and sharpening system, was getting ready to post for the opinions of my fellow VRCC brothers.

Don't have to now

But leave em anyways.

[Serk]

My Snake Oil Detector is pegged on BULLSHIT reading that...

I could be wrong though... You buy one and tell us how well it works, 'k?

[The emperor has no clothes]

My Snake Oil Detector is pegged on BULLSHIT reading that...

I could be wrong though... You buy one and tell us how well it works, 'k?

My detector goes off on just about everything from the Daily Mail.

Forschner knives are the only ones for me.

[Hook#3287]

My Snake Oil Detector is pegged on BULLSHIT reading that...

I could be wrong though... You buy one and tell us how well it works, 'k?

My detector goes off on just about everything from the Daily Mail.

Forschner knives are the only ones for me.

Rob, I figured you'd weigh in on this

Yeah, DM gives me reservations at times, but also reports a lot of good stuff.

I don't plan on running out and getting a KNASA, but, who knows, they could have something.

Forschner?  Sounds German.  What sharpening process do you use?

[The emperor has no clothes]

My Snake Oil Detector is pegged on BULLSHIT reading that...

I could be wrong though... You buy one and tell us how well it works, 'k?

My detector goes off on just about everything from the Daily Mail.

Forschner knives are the only ones for me.

Rob, I figured you'd weigh in on this

Yeah, DM gives me reservations at times, but also reports a lot of good stuff.

I don't plan on running out and getting a KNASA, but, who knows, they could have something.

Forschner?  Sounds German.  What sharpening process do you use?

A good quality tri-stone is the best. But it's not really feasible for just casual use. They probably run over $200 nowadays. And they are not the easiest. It's imperative that the correct angle is used on EVERY pass. For the casual sharpener a cheap belt sander with quality fine grade belts is a good setup. It's very important to make quick, accurate passes so as not to ruin the temper of the knife. This is what I've been using for the last 8 years mostly because it's a lot quicker than a tri-stone. But you've got to get good belts, keep an accurate angle, and make quick passes. A little practice with a cheap knife would be wise.
http://t.harborfreight.com/1-in-x-30-in-belt-sander-60543.html?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

[The emperor has no clothes]

Bill, these are some good chef's knives. I like wood handles, but that's because it's what I'm used to after 45 years. The plastic handles are probably better. I've had some that I have just for home use that are over 25 years old. Sadly they don't last as long for work. In my opinion they are the best. Also for a large chef's knife in the 8"-12" range, I really prefer the Granton edge. It requires less force to slice.
https://www.swissknifeshop.com/shop/swiss-army/victorinox/victorinox-cutlery/chefs-knives
I forgot that Forschner and Victorinox merged a few years back. Most people probably refer to them as Victorinox brand .

[big d]

Meathead I am glad to see you are an expert on everything .
   On a serious note if you read the description of that knife it says as the serrations fall off it allows other serrations to keep the blade sharp. That means the serrations are in your food. I would never buy that knife.
  As far as wanting a good knife set you don't need to buy the most expensive set. You just need a good quality set that feels good in your hand. Regarding a plastic handle on knives, they are easy to grip when dealing with greasy food in institutional settings. I have several and use them at home frequently because they are cheap and hold a sharp edge if you know how to sharpen them.
   What you really want to look at is the amount of carbon in the steel. While carbon is soft it will hold its sharpness much better than standard steel knives. Problem is most knives don't have much carbon in them any more. Go to the mall and check Williams Sonoma, they have a nice selection of knives and not all are rediculously priced.
   As for sharpening I would not recommend a belt sander as it is impossible to keep both sides of the blade straight and equal in angle.  This will cause the knife to  slide to either side depending on which side of the blade the angle is greater. Also do not use a motorized sharpener as it will burn the blade and destroy the knife. Look for a proper balance of the knife. Place the knife on your index finger on the blade by the tang. Where the knife meets the handle. If it banlances it will be more comfortable in your hand over long periods of time while being used. Your hand will not fatigue as quickly. Good luck in figuring out what best suits you.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Meathead I am glad to see you are an expert on everything .
   On a serious note if you read the description of that knife it says as the serrations fall off it allows other serrations to keep the blade sharp. That means the serrations are in your food. I would never buy that knife.
  As far as wanting a good knife set you don't need to buy the most expensive set. You just need a good quality set that feels good in your hand. Regarding a plastic handle on knives, they are easy to grip when dealing with greasy food in institutional settings. I have several and use them at home frequently because they are cheap and hold a sharp edge if you know how to sharpen them.
   What you really want to look at is the amount of carbon in the steel. While carbon is soft it will hold its sharpness much better than standard steel knives. Problem is most knives don't have much carbon in them any more. Go to the mall and check Williams Sonoma, they have a nice selection of knives and not all are rediculously priced.
   As for sharpening I would not recommend a belt sander as it is impossible to keep both sides of the blade straight and equal in angle.  This will cause the knife to  slide to either side depending on which side of the blade the angle is greater. Also do not use a motorized sharpener as it will burn the blade and destroy the knife. Look for a proper balance of the knife. Place the knife on your index finger on the blade by the tang. Where the knife meets the handle. If it banlances it will be more comfortable in your hand over long periods of time while being used. Your hand will not fatigue as quickly. Good luck in figuring out what best suits you.

I'm sorry I came across as being an expert. I'm certainly not. It's just my opinion based on 45 years of cutting meat.

[big d]

Meathead I am glad to see you are an expert on everything .
   On a serious note if you read the description of that knife it says as the serrations fall off it allows other serrations to keep the blade sharp. That means the serrations are in your food. I would never buy that knife.
  As far as wanting a good knife set you don't need to buy the most expensive set. You just need a good quality set that feels good in your hand. Regarding a plastic handle on knives, they are easy to grip when dealing with greasy food in institutional settings. I have several and use them at home frequently because they are cheap and hold a sharp edge if you know how to sharpen them.
   What you really want to look at is the amount of carbon in the steel. While carbon is soft it will hold its sharpness much better than standard steel knives. Problem is most knives don't have much carbon in them any more. Go to the mall and check Williams Sonoma, they have a nice selection of knives and not all are rediculously priced.
   As for sharpening I would not recommend a belt sander as it is impossible to keep both sides of the blade straight and equal in angle.  This will cause the knife to  slide to either side depending on which side of the blade the angle is greater. Also do not use a motorized sharpener as it will burn the blade and destroy the knife. Look for a proper balance of the knife. Place the knife on your index finger on the blade by the tang. Where the knife meets the handle. If it banlances it will be more comfortable in your hand over long periods of time while being used. Your hand will not fatigue as quickly. Good luck in figuring out what best suits you.

I'm sorry I came across as being an expert. I'm certainly not. It's just my opinion based on 45 years of cutting meat.

Please take it as a joke as it was meant. I was a chef for 25 years and also worked in a hi end gourmet butcher shop for several years. I left when the clintons moved into the area.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Meathead I am glad to see you are an expert on everything .
   On a serious note if you read the description of that knife it says as the serrations fall off it allows other serrations to keep the blade sharp. That means the serrations are in your food. I would never buy that knife.
  As far as wanting a good knife set you don't need to buy the most expensive set. You just need a good quality set that feels good in your hand. Regarding a plastic handle on knives, they are easy to grip when dealing with greasy food in institutional settings. I have several and use them at home frequently because they are cheap and hold a sharp edge if you know how to sharpen them.
   What you really want to look at is the amount of carbon in the steel. While carbon is soft it will hold its sharpness much better than standard steel knives. Problem is most knives don't have much carbon in them any more. Go to the mall and check Williams Sonoma, they have a nice selection of knives and not all are rediculously priced.
   As for sharpening I would not recommend a belt sander as it is impossible to keep both sides of the blade straight and equal in angle.  This will cause the knife to  slide to either side depending on which side of the blade the angle is greater. Also do not use a motorized sharpener as it will burn the blade and destroy the knife. Look for a proper balance of the knife. Place the knife on your index finger on the blade by the tang. Where the knife meets the handle. If it banlances it will be more comfortable in your hand over long periods of time while being used. Your hand will not fatigue as quickly. Good luck in figuring out what best suits you.

I'm sorry I came across as being an expert. I'm certainly not. It's just my opinion based on 45 years of cutting meat.

Please take it as a joke as it was meant. I was a chef for 25 years and also worked in a hi end gourmet butcher shop for several years. I left when the clintons moved into the area.

[MarkT]

The knife advertised might be a good knife but only due to it's alloy, not the rest of their claims. I'd say on the rest of the scientific marketing claims, the BS meter is pegged.  If not, then I think I'll go into the knife selling business, with knives that never need sharpening.  Got a good name for them too, I think I'll invoke a Samurai vibe, I'll call them "Ginsu" knives and offer a lifetime money back guarantee at a price point no one will bother to make a claim...

I'm no expert either but I know how to sharpen knives.  At least for my use.  I understand there are differences in sharpening depending on how the knife is to be used.  And of course different knives in shape, steel alloy, and the type edge (angle, serrated?) also aimed at the knife's use. Generally I avoid serrated knives and prefer German or Swiss steel. I sharpen a knife differently for kitchen use - vegetables etc - than I do for cutting meat, or for field dressing deer, and for butchering that deer.  Around the shop I use the same method and tools that Cutco does. That method will put a shaving edge on a dull knife in just a couple minutes.  I use two 1" belt sanders with fine then ultra-fine grit, followed by a high speed buffer with two wheels, two different metal polishing compounds. I move the blades quickly with light pressure holding the angle precisely.  Repeat passes on one side while cooling the blade with a fan until there's a burr.  Make a burr on the other side the same way. If the knife is sharpened regularly it won't take more than two passes per side.  Remove the burr with the buffer wheels. Stop with the course buffer for kitchen use.  Use the fine buffer to cut meat. While cutting meat refresh the edge with a smooth steel.  Works for me and my knives are holding their temper. I don't have high dollar knives - Kitchen knives are mostly Chicago Cutlery with a couple Victorinox and Henckels blades.  Hunting knives also Victorinox, Buck, Kershaw and Gerber. All shaving sharp. I have no use for Chinese steel.  Take a diamond stone and an Accusharp field sharpener with me on hunting trips.

[Chrisj CMA]

What happens to the old teeth if new ones are exposed?

[Wizzard]

Have no idea on knives, but we have had a full set of Cutco for the last 40 years and we love them.
Maybe its because we have never had anything better and don't know the diff. 

[MarkT]

This is the best knife sharpener I've seen, not aimed at professionals.  Works very well.  Not Cheap.  Bought one for my daughter.  My setup is better but it is pro equipment, not a small portable tool.

http://www.worksharptools.com/ken-onion-edition-knife-and-tool-sharpener.html

[hubcapsc]

We got some good serrated-all-the-way-up-the-blade
steak knives many years ago, I (mis) use them for
everything in the kitchen except cutting bread, the
bread knife rocks for that. They have wooden handles,
and the full serration helps me saw through whatever,
from peeling an apple or tomato to cutting up a chicken(!).
I would probably cut my fingers off trying to do any of that with
an actual sharp knife  ...

Carolyn recently found some other fully serrated knives
to replace the good ones at an outlet store... blegghh...
The dulled up old misused ones are still way better...

I looked through that swissknifeshop place that
Meathead posted without seeing any good steak
knives, still looking...

Serrated knives usually != "good knives", and they
aren't the kind of thing you sharpen in any of the normal
ways... my BS alert went off on the nasa knife too...

-Mike

[The emperor has no clothes]

We got some good serrated-all-the-way-up-the-blade
steak knives many years ago, I (mis) use them for
everything in the kitchen except cutting bread, the
bread knife rocks for that. They have wooden handles,
and the full serration helps me saw through whatever,
from peeling an apple or tomato to cutting up a chicken(!).
I would probably cut my fingers off trying to do any of that with
an actual sharp knife  ...

Carolyn recently found some other fully serrated knives
to replace the good ones at an outlet store... blegghh...
The dulled up old misused ones are still way better...

I looked through that swissknifeshop place that
Meathead posted without seeing any good steak
knives, still looking...

Serrated knives usually != "good knives", and they
aren't the kind of thing you sharpen in any of the normal
ways... my BS alert went off on the nasa knife too...

-Mike

Mike, serrated knives are good for some general use. But as an old meatcutter told me decades ago "A sharp knife is a safe knife"

[hubcapsc]

But as an old meatcutter told me decades ago "A sharp knife is a safe knife"

That's probably because you can glide through stuff instead of forcing
and struggling through stuff...

Still... I'm not safe with anything sharper than a banana... I keep sharp
blades on my saws, but they all have blade guards and I don't
hold boards in my hand while I'm cutting them. I have to
hold an apple in my hand to peel it. I'd have to start being
careful if I used a sharp knife  ...

-Mike

[The emperor has no clothes]

But as an old meatcutter told me decades ago "A sharp knife is a safe knife"

That's probably because you can glide through stuff instead of forcing
and struggling through stuff...

Still... I'm not safe with anything sharper than a banana... I keep sharp
blades on my saws, but they all have blade guards and I don't
hold boards in my hand while I'm cutting them. I have to
hold an apple in my hand to peel it. I'd have to start being
careful if I used a sharp knife  ...

-Mike

be careful my friend 

[Pete]

In today's world we have a lot of really excellent knives and excellent sharping tools.
Much better than it has ever been.

As a knife user, maker, seller I like most of you have an opinion based on what I have seen, done and observed.

As for sharping tools I have moved to industrial diamond impregnated steels both flat and round. As they work better and quicker with the new very hard steels and last longer. They are available in several grits that vary from very coarse to very fine and will sharpen anything.

I do not use any motorized tools for sharpening any excellent quality knife or tool. Yes the new motorized tools can deliver very sharp edges, but usually at the cost of reducing the life of the knife or tool by removing more material than is necessary.

Correctly sharping a knife is a learned skill just like anything else worth doing. And like other skills some folks are better at it than others. The new diamond sharpening products work so much better than the older methods that it is easier and quicker to acquire the skill to sharpen a knife. The diamond sharpeners are not cheap, but used correctly they may last a lifetime.

With the new diamond sharpeners if you cannot sharpen a dull knife to shaving sharp in 2 or 3 minutes you are not trying or you do not have the skill developed yet. Even knife blades well in the 60's rockwell hardness are no match for a diamond sharpener. A diamond sharpener will even sharpen a ceramic knife blade.

As for the NASA knife, others have tried and failed to produce a forever sharp knife. I wish NASA luck  but I am skeptical based on past failures of others.

Like others I subscribe the the theory that a sharp blade is a safer blade IF you KNOW it is sharp and can resist touching yourself with the edge on purpose or un-intentionally.

I like others have a preference for certain knife manufactures and certain steels and certain heat treaters of steel all based on what I have used over the years.

As of right now I really like S30V steel with a heat treatment hardness of 62+.

[Gavin_Sons]

http://m.havalon.com/skinning-knife-havalon-baracuta-blaze-xt-115blaze.html

For the guys ( like myself) that either suck at sharpenimg or just cant do it 

[The emperor has no clothes]

As of right now I really like S30V steel with a heat treatment hardness of 62+.

Is this a metal you are using for making knives ? Are there commercial knives made with this steel ?

[Pete]

Yes a number of commercial knife makers use this special steel.
Buck Knives uses it for their higher end knives instead of 420HC or ATS34 or BG42.
Some others also use it, Buck was the first I thought of and the one I am most familiar with.

I am not aware of  custom knife maker that uses it, and I do not know why, except that it is very hard when properly heat treated and requires more time and tool wear to finish.

It has excellent edge retention, sharpens to a razor edge using a diamond sharpener.
S30V can be sharpened with a stone (natural or man made) but it is very hard on the stone and slower than with diamonds.

S35VN is a newer version that may have some advantages over S30V but I have not found a well known manufacture using it yet. As soon as I do I will give it a try.

S30V

The difference between the two is in the details. Introduced in 2001, S30V is made with 1.45% carbon, 4% vanadium, and 10.5% chromium carbide. This steel continues to be one of the best knife steels on the market for a wide range of knife uses and applications. Vanadium carbides are some of the most prized carbides for knives. Their carbides provide extreme hardness in the steel alloy matrix.

S35VN

S35VN, made in 2009, modified the formula of S30V by adding niobium to the vanadium and chromium carbide forming elements. The addition of niobium reflects the addition of N in the name of the steel S35VN. The specific formula for S35VN is 3% vanadium, 1.4% carbon, 0.5% niobium, 2% molybdenum, and 10.5% chromium. This composition makes it tougher (resistance to edge chipping) without reducing the wear resistance (edge holding) of the steel. S35VN is tougher than the S30V and easier to machine, grind and polish, due to the substitution of niobium for a part of vanadium. Because of these manufacturing features, knifemakers might choose to use S35VN rather than S30V from a process perspective and/or for a extreme-use fixed blade for slightly increased toughness.

A knife with a blade made with either S35VN or S30V when heat treated properly is a high quality blade. Both are able to withstand long-term use. Even with their slight, technical differences, knife-users may not notice any changes in performance between these two high-quality steels.

I quit making knives a few years ago when I realized I could buy a better knife from a commercial knife maker that I could make. I still do custom work on commercial knives and S30V is the tuff-est steel I have run into. After working with S30V, a 420HC steel feels almost like hard butter and a standard 440 stainless feels like soft butter. 

I am most familiar with Buck Knives because I am a dealer/distributor for Buck. And I also stock custom Bucks by Yellowhorse, Painted Pony and others less well known.

Should you need a Buck knife let me know. Normally I can beat any advertized price on current production knives. On out of production (high end) and custom I also buy from other dealers to maintain stock.

If Buck makes the knife in two different steels I only stock the better grade steel, as the difference in price is not that large at the wholesale level and i really do not like selling the lower quality.

[Misfit]

I have carried Benchmade brand knives the last several years and am very happy with them. High quality and American made. 

[Pete]

Just found a knife made from S35VN steel from Emerson and Bark River, I have no experience with either.

Buck has release several knives with S35VN steel models 830, 547 but I have not received any as of today.

[robin]

I have been using this sharpener for years now and do Chef Knives to hunting knives with great success.
I have a small business doing sharpening here in town and had rented knives to sandwhich shops for some years you can't go wrong with the angle with this set up.
http://www.edgeproinc.com/