Maybe something both parties can get behind?

[Gavin_Sons]

Rob,

Voter fraud should include voting machines that cancel or count votes wrongly ( they had to be programed to do that) as well as those who signed registration forms that went to the polls and were signed by whoever knowing that the person was indeed not eligible to vote

It would not surprise me to see whole voting precincts in major metropolitan areas totally corrupted

And lest you forget I am still a registered Democrat disgusted with what has happened to my party

Evan, I would agree with all that. As you know it's our Sec. Of States that run each states election. I think all of them take their responsibility strongly. I think they run elections well and on the up and up. Yes I think some fraud slips thru. The studies that Trump is citing as evidence of voter fraud is nothing close. Yes there are people that are registered in different places. That doesn't mean they or somebody voted in all those places. Yes there are deceased people still on the registration. That doesn't mean somebody voted for them. I have moved at least a dozen times in my life. I've never canceled my registration from where I moved from. When my Dad died I never cancelled his registration. If this is what Trump wants to count as voter fraud I suspect the number is approaching 100 million. 

you really wouldn't know the truth if it slapped you in the face would you? I truly feel sorry for you.

[Serk]

Seeing as there were 8,758,788 votes for Hillary in California in the 2016 election, and seeing that, as everyone knows, well over half the population of California is now made up of illegal aliens, I think it's a fair bet that there were at least 4,379,394 illegal votes in the state of California alone.

And while my above numbers are obviously tongue in cheek (Mostly) here's a more sober analysis of the situation:

http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/trump-is-right-millions-of-illegals-probably-did-vote-in-2016/

And another interesting article, albeit from a single ICE agent, claiming most illegal invaders he had dealt with were registered to vote:

http://ijr.com/2016/12/747173-former-ice-agent-is-asked-about-illegal-aliens-voting-youre-not-going-to-like-his-answer/

Of course, seeing as 53% of Democrats polled think that " illegal immigrants be allowed to vote if they can prove that they live in this country and pay taxes?", that could make things very interesting too... (Quote is actual wording of the question that was posed to the survey participants)

[Rams]

Rob,

Voter fraud should include voting machines that cancel or count votes wrongly ( they had to be programed to do that) as well as those who signed registration forms that went to the polls and were signed by whoever knowing that the person was indeed not eligible to vote

It would not surprise me to see whole voting precincts in major metropolitan areas totally corrupted

And lest you forget I am still a registered Democrat disgusted with what has happened to my party

Evan, I would agree with all that. As you know it's our Sec. Of States that run each states election. I think all of them take their responsibility strongly. I think they run elections well and on the up and up. Yes I think some fraud slips thru. The studies that Trump is citing as evidence of voter fraud is nothing close. Yes there are people that are registered in different places. That doesn't mean they or somebody voted in all those places. Yes there are deceased people still on the registration. That doesn't mean somebody voted for them. I have moved at least a dozen times in my life. I've never canceled my registration from where I moved from. When my Dad died I never cancelled his registration. If this is what Trump wants to count as voter fraud I suspect the number is approaching 100 million. 

This I agree with, I have also lead the life of a gipsy and moved many times and always registered to vote in the new location.   Have no idea as to how to de-register from where I was last located.   There should be a system.   Oh wait, there is a way to know who is voting, a state issued ID.   

Dang, who'd have thunk that?   

[The emperor has no clothes]

Trump's assertion is that 3-5 million illegal aliens voted in this election, and that NONE voted for him. Lets try to break it down as if we were in their shoes. If I were here illegally, I would be doing everything I could to fly under the radar and not draw attention to myself. This would include not getting stopped by the police, not pissing my neighbors off, avoiding any government officials. It is estimated there are 10-12 million illegals here. If 1/4 of them are kids that leaves 8-9 million possible voters. We can't even get 1/2 of our eligible voters to vote. Does anyone really think 1/2 of the illegals are going to risk voting ?

[Rams]

Trump's assertion is that 3-5 million illegal aliens voted in this election, and that NONE voted for him. Lets try to break it down as if we were in their shoes. If I were here illegally, I would be doing everything I could to fly under the radar and not draw attention to myself. This would include not getting stopped by the police, not pissing my neighbors off, avoiding any government officials. It is estimated there are 10-12 million illegals here. If 1/4 of them are kids that leaves 8-9 million possible voters. We can't even get 1/2 of our eligible voters to vote. Does anyone really think 1/2 of the illegals are going to risk voting ?

Honestly, I do agree that the numbers are most likely exaggerated but then, aren't most political numbers............    All this could be dumped if only there  were state issued IDs for anyone wishing to vote.    It's almost two years until the next major election, if a prospective voter can't find a way to get a state issued ID, I suspect, they are not very motivated to exercise that right.

I see this as a non-issue if states would issue and the courts accept the requirement of a state issued ID.   I also suspect that with the change coming in SCOTUS, that may in fact become the standard.   I sincerely hope so.

[Serk]

All this could be dumped if only there  were state issued IDs for anyone wishing to vote.

While I agree states should implement common sense ID requirements in order to vote, keep in mind that over HALF of the driver's licenses issued in the state of California in 2015 went to illegals.

[Rams]

All this could be dumped if only there  were state issued IDs for anyone wishing to vote.

While I agree states should implement common sense ID requirements in order to vote, keep in mind that over HALF of the driver's licenses issued in the state of California in 2015 went to illegals.

Not sure how other states verify but, I would think there is a way to tie the two together.   Illegals would not be on the voter rolls or, am I mistaken?

Shamefully, I don't pay enough attention (I guess) but, in every election  I can remember, I had to provide an ID, the poll person looks at the ID and finds my name on the voter register, I sign under my name and go vote.   Seems pretty simply to me, anyone not on the voter's register must prove they are entitled to vote.   I did that when I registered.   Am I mistaken?

[The emperor has no clothes]

All this could be dumped if only there  were state issued IDs for anyone wishing to vote.

While I agree states should implement common sense ID requirements in order to vote, keep in mind that over HALF of the driver's licenses issued in the state of California in 2015 went to illegals.

Not sure how other states verify but, I would think there is a way to tie the two together.   Illegals would not be on the voter rolls or, am I mistaken?

Shamefully, I don't pay enough attention (I guess) but, in ever election  can remember, I had to provide and ID, the poll person looks at the ID and finds my name on the voter register, I sign under my name and go vote.   Seems pretty simply to me, anyone not on the voter's register must prove they are entitled to vote.   I did that when I registered.   Am I mistaken?

Thats been the case for me also. I would be curious if there is a statistic of the number of people who voted without an ID ? Serk ?

[Cracker Jack]

Seems pretty simple to me, anti voter ID means pro voter fraud.

[Rams]

All this could be dumped if only there  were state issued IDs for anyone wishing to vote.

While I agree states should implement common sense ID requirements in order to vote, keep in mind that over HALF of the driver's licenses issued in the state of California in 2015 went to illegals.

Not sure how other states verify but, I would think there is a way to tie the two together.   Illegals would not be on the voter rolls or, am I mistaken?

Shamefully, I don't pay enough attention (I guess) but, in ever election  can remember, I had to provide and ID, the poll person looks at the ID and finds my name on the voter register, I sign under my name and go vote.   Seems pretty simply to me, anyone not on the voter's register must prove they are entitled to vote.   I did that when I registered.   Am I mistaken?

Thats been the case for me also. I would be curious if there is a statistic of the number of people who voted without an ID ? Serk ?

My understanding is, that not all states work the same as where I have voted.   Some states apparently don't require an ID.   I assume that all states have voter registration rolls.  It that a bad assumption?

[Serk]

Thats been the case for me also. I would be curious if there is a statistic of the number of people who voted without an ID ? Serk ?

Off the top of my head I'd guess about 65,845,063 voted with no ID in the last national election.

But seriously, very few states require photo ID in order to vote.

(This map is as of August 2012)

[Pete]

Rob,

Voter fraud should include voting machines that cancel or count votes wrongly ( they had to be programed to do that) as well as those who signed registration forms that went to the polls and were signed by whoever knowing that the person was indeed not eligible to vote

It would not surprise me to see whole voting precincts in major metropolitan areas totally corrupted

And lest you forget I am still a registered Democrat disgusted with what has happened to my party

Evan, I would agree with all that. As you know it's our Sec. Of States that run each states election. I think all of them take their responsibility strongly. I think they run elections well and on the up and up. Yes I think some fraud slips thru. The studies that Trump is citing as evidence of voter fraud is nothing close. Yes there are people that are registered in different places. That doesn't mean they or somebody voted in all those places. Yes there are deceased people still on the registration. That doesn't mean somebody voted for them. I have moved at least a dozen times in my life. I've never canceled my registration from where I moved from. When my Dad died I never cancelled his registration. If this is what Trump wants to count as voter fraud I suspect the number is approaching 100 million.  

You are decidely more trusting than I am. Many try to do a good job, but I suspect quite a few do not and do not care.

To much fraud slipping thru is the problem and to much planned fraud is way to much.
Folks have been convicted of voter fraud, lets do the investigations and find out. In every state no exceptions. Then we will all know.

Stop the nonsense if they did not vote and are not registered NO foul and you know it.

[Rams]

Well, one thing I do feel safe assuming, if a state has no voter ID requirement, then there are two possibilities.   One, we have a fraudulent voter opportunity or two, we have poll workers allowing those who do not have the right to vote the opportunity to cast a ballot.   

I believe both are illegal.   Investigate and prosecute, don't care which side gets burnt.

[Moonshot_1]

Trump's assertion is that 3-5 million illegal aliens voted in this election, and that NONE voted for him. Lets try to break it down as if we were in their shoes. If I were here illegally, I would be doing everything I could to fly under the radar and not draw attention to myself. This would include not getting stopped by the police, not pissing my neighbors off, avoiding any government officials. It is estimated there are 10-12 million illegals here. If 1/4 of them are kids that leaves 8-9 million possible voters. We can't even get 1/2 of our eligible voters to vote. Does anyone really think 1/2 of the illegals are going to risk voting ?

They have already risked entering or otherwise being here illegally. If, as in California, all you need to vote is a State issued driver's license, which YOU HAVE ALREADY GONE TO THE CALIFORNIA DOT TO GET as they issue them to illegal immigrants, the assumption that voting in California as an illegal immigrant is a risk is wrong. Add to that the incentive of electing politicians that promise sanctuary, then it is rather logical that illegal immigrants would vote nearly en masse.

So I am not seeing much of a risk here.

[Oss]

which is why I had to say there has to be federal involvement as its their database of who is a citizen and who is not

But yes I think its a State duty under the 10th amendment to secure properly

If a State fails to do so the Feds may well have the right to step up to the plate

In any event the dialog is long overdue and spirited debate is good for the country on general principles

[Robert]

Really telling and he really didn't really make a difference but Trump is.

President Clinton on Borders & Immigration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNy4ixHFrdI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auZRVqrCLY8

[RP#62]

And besides, where would illegals even get the idea they could vote?
-RP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfgEvgVC6Qs

[Robert]

Trump's assertion is that 3-5 million illegal aliens voted in this election, and that NONE voted for him. Lets try to break it down as if we were in their shoes. If I were here illegally, I would be doing everything I could to fly under the radar and not draw attention to myself. This would include not getting stopped by the police, not pissing my neighbors off, avoiding any government officials. It is estimated there are 10-12 million illegals here. If 1/4 of them are kids that leaves 8-9 million possible voters. We can't even get 1/2 of our eligible voters to vote. Does anyone really think 1/2 of the illegals are going to risk voting ?

   

2 immigrants in U.S. illegally are named to Huntington Park commissions
Emotions ran high Monday night as two illegal immigrants were appointed to city commissions in Huntington Park, California.


500,000 March in L.A. Against Immigration Bill
Police said more than 500,000 people marched Saturday to protest a proposed federal crackdown on illegal immigration. Wearing white as a sign of peace -- and waving flags from the United States, Mexico, Guatemala and other countries -- they came to show that illegal immigrants are already part of the American fabric, and want the chance to be legal, law-abiding citizens.

A municipality just outside Chicago, Illinois has now pledged itself to be a home for illegal aliens who want to be shielded from federal immigration law, officially claiming the mantle as a sanctuary city.

A Salvadoran woman who was arrested for being undocumented will soon be able to proceed with her discrimination lawsuit, according to a court decision on Wednesday. After running her identification card through the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) database, the police officers found out that Santos was undocumented and had a civil warrant for immediate deportation.

http://cis.org/Sanctuary-Cities-Map

Sanctuary Cities Continue to Obstruct Enforcement, Threaten Public Safety

U.S. Immigrant Pop.
Hit Record 42.4
Million in 2014

[Serk]

And besides, where would illegals even get the idea they could vote?
-RP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfgEvgVC6Qs

It makes me physically ill to say this but, that video was misleadingly edited... Although in the real one he was basically lamenting that illegal invaders couldn't vote, he didn't really encourage illegals to vote, he was encouraging the legal ones to vote because the criminals couldn't...

http://www.snopes.com/obama-encouraged-illegal-aliens-to-vote/

(I know, I know, Snopes, but it also has a link to the unedited version, see for yourself.)

[baldo]

And besides, where would illegals even get the idea they could vote?
-RP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfgEvgVC6Qs

It makes me physically ill to say this but, that video was misleadingly edited... Although in the real one he was basically lamenting that illegal invaders couldn't vote, he didn't really encourage illegals to vote, he was encouraging the legal ones to vote because the criminals couldn't...

http://www.snopes.com/obama-encouraged-illegal-aliens-to-vote/

(I know, I know, Snopes, but it also has a link to the unedited version, see for yourself.)

I've posted this several times myself. A slick piece of 'alternative facts'...

[Rams]

But seriously, very few states require photo ID in order to vote.

(This map is as of August 2012)

Looking at the map, I noticed the very few states that require a photo ID and then an ID without photo.    Made me wonder what is considered an ID.   I distinctly remember asking the clerk when I last voted what I needed to prove I was who I was and she replied a bill with my name and address on it.   Now, I ask you, how in the hell does that prove who I am?

[Robert]

So let me understand this, the interviewer says undocumented, Obama says they dont cross the voting rolls to police it and Snopes and  liberals say he didn't say it was ok for undocumented to vote just because he inserts a little political correctness at the end.  ???

OK

But its ok not to have ID for voter registration and we have sanctuary cities, have you really lost the ability to not see the double speak?

In the old days it would be a wink or a nod today its Obama. Editing or no I guess we have really lost the ability to judge and see the true intent in actions. Especially when they contradict the words. 

Instead of actions speak louder than words we have a new society that words speak louder than actions.

If you go to the bank to get a loan and the loan officer says, I cannot give you the loan, yet in his hands is the agreement and a check he is handing to you, which action is the truth and really counts?

[The emperor has no clothes]

And besides, where would illegals even get the idea they could vote?
-RP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfgEvgVC6Qs

It makes me physically ill to say this but, that video was misleadingly edited... Although in the real one he was basically lamenting that illegal invaders couldn't vote, he didn't really encourage illegals to vote, he was encouraging the legal ones to vote because the criminals couldn't...

http://www.snopes.com/obama-encouraged-illegal-aliens-to-vote/

(I know, I know, Snopes, but it also has a link to the unedited version, see for yourself.)

No need to get ill my friend. The truth will set you free. 

[Serk]

Okay so there were only around 800,000 illegal votes for Hillary, says the main stream media...

(That's still a LOT more than the small handful they usually admit to)

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/26/hillary-clinton-received-800000-votes-from-nonciti/

[The emperor has no clothes]

Okay so there were only around 800,000 illegal votes for Hillary, says the main stream media...

(That's still a LOT more than the small handful they usually admit to)

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/26/hillary-clinton-received-800000-votes-from-nonciti/

Admit to ? The scholar says there are 20 million illegal adults. That's MUCH higher than all the estimates I've seen. He also theorizes that 81% would have voted for Clinton. That is also much higher than the ACTUAL percentage on Nov. 5, which was 71% for Hispanics . I question his theories.

[Rams]

I question his theories.

Oh my goodness, that surprises me.............     

[The emperor has no clothes]

I question his theories.

Oh my goodness, that surprises me.............     

Can you explain his numbers ?

[Rams]

I question his theories.

Oh my goodness, that surprises me.............     

Can you explain his numbers ?

No more than I can explain the Liberal mindset.   

[The emperor has no clothes]

I question his theories.

Oh my goodness, that surprises me.............     

Can you explain his numbers ?

No more than I can explain the Liberal mindset.   

There is nothing liberal or conservative about erroneous numbers.

[3fan4life]

Thats been the case for me also. I would be curious if there is a statistic of the number of people who voted without an ID ? Serk ?

Off the top of my head I'd guess about 65,845,063 voted with no ID in the last national election.

But seriously, very few states require photo ID in order to vote.

(This map is as of August 2012)

Interesting, in all but 3 of the states that she won Voter ID was not required.

And those states did not require a photo ID.

There are only 5 states that strictly require a photo ID.

Trump won in ALL 5 of them. 


It would appear to be a rather convenient coincidence. 


If you break down the election results by precinct:



She really only won in the areas with large urban populations.

Places where if one was intent on committing voter fraud, it would be much easier to do.

[Serk]

I was gonna start a new thread for this, but I'll just piggyback off the subject line for this one... I think even leftists would be good with this one!

[Rams]

I was gonna start a new thread for this, but I'll just piggyback off the subject line for this one... I think even leftists would be good with this one!

Won't that force them to move right?   Some how, I don't see that solving any problems.   

[The emperor has no clothes]

I was gonna start a new thread for this, but I'll just piggyback off the subject line for this one... I think even leftists would be good with this one!

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