WTF is wrong with some riders?

[..]

Sports bike. dark green comes towards me.

I start to point at his headlight to show the rider they aren't on.

The point becomes a wave as we draw closer.

He has dark green LED bulbs that become visible from about 20 feet away.

Who will he blame when a driver turns across the front of him?

[Bighead]

But it looks cool

[The emperor has no clothes]

Not only foolish, but it seems like it would be illegal.

[..]

And of course once the tree leaves start to fill out he will become nearly invisible.

[..]

Riding down Blood Mountain where I have one lane and the north bound uphill road users have 2 lanes.

Rounding a bend following 2 other sports bikes there are parked sports bikes scattered on each side of the road.

A sheriffs car is blocking my lane.

The gaggle of riders shows me where the crashed bike is to my right.

NONE of the road users coming up the hill from the accident site tried to make us aware there was a problem ahead.

This includes a mix of cruisers, dual sport and sport bikes.

EDIT.

No one is taking initiative to try to do some traffic control.

Yep, I could have stopped but there's about 30 riders milling around.

[wiggydotcom]

That's just plain crazy. Although I do have a black F6b, it is well lit up from the front. Since this pic was taken, I've bought LED high and low beams to match the turn signal lighting and the fogs but haven't gotten them installed yet. I want to be as visible as possible to oncoming traffic.

[sandy]

Those LED headlight bulbs appear bright when looking at them but they don't project down the road as far as good incandescent bulb. Lots of sportbike riders remove the large rear lighting and replace them with much smaller "cool" lights. I never want some cager to say "I didn't see you".

[Jess from VA]

Doing a spin on the Geo Washington parkway (along the Potomac) yesterday, there was a brand new Park Police SUV hunting speeders.  I was in my 5 under the limit, walking along looking at the water and nature and enjoying 70* in Feb mode.  On my way back down, the SUV was hiding in the weeds.  Heading up to old GW's house (Mount Vernon) I passed two different bikes.  I gave them the old exaggerated helmet tap to warn of the speed trap, and they just waved back.  No idea what the tap on the helmet means.

[Robert]

You guys are kind of funny, why get so upset over these people that dont have a clue about motorcycles, safety or riding, it shows  your experience and there lack of it. I am more surprised by those that know the rules than by those that dont. All the weekend warriors, crotch rockets, attitudes, and a holes are just the majority of the bunch it has always seemed to me. I am much more impressed by guys such as you guys and those on this board to know the rules of the road for motorcycles and how to stay alive and well in riding. Its a learned skill that does not come by those occasional riders. I must admit that I have learned a thing or two by many on this board just sharing their experiences and tips, so I can imagine that those who go to a board that is about hp, or the latest thing or so many other topics and never cover riding would never get this benefit or skill.

[Hooter]

Any light emitted to the front of any motor vehicle shall be white in color with the exception of turn signals. Those shall be amber in color. There are exceptions in turn signal  color when original equipment on older, antique / historical vehicles are otherwise equipped.

Headlights are to be visible I believe at a minimum of not less than 250'. Don't quote me on the 250, but it's close. Obviously this bike didn't  make the grade.

There are also regulations that pertain to tail lights. Tail lights must be red in color. Turn signals at the rear of the vehicle follow the same rules as the front.

These lighting regulations allow drivers to tell which way a vehicle is traveling. You don't want to see white lights approaching you from the opposite direction on the xway.

[da prez]

  Last year I did a modification on a crotch rocket to convert it to street use from a road racer. The customer bought all the lights and wiring. The led tail lights were about 3/16th diameter and recessed in the housing. Very bright  , but only directly behind the bike. If you were off to the side more than a couple of feet , no lights. We wrote on the invoice , "installed customer furnished parts".

                                  da prez

[Gryphon Rider]

Doing a spin on the Geo Washington parkway (along the Potomac) yesterday, there was a brand new Park Police SUV hunting speeders.  I was in my 5 under the limit, walking along looking at the water and nature and enjoying 70* in Feb mode.  On my way back down, the SUV was hiding in the weeds.  Heading up to old GW's house (Mount Vernon) I passed two different bikes.  I gave them the old exaggerated helmet tap to warn of the speed trap, and they just waved back.  No idea what the tap on the helmet means.

I don't think "police ahead" warning signals are in the book you study to get your MC licence.  Probably not taught in MSF courses either.  That type of information is acquired by word-of-mouth.  Because police cars never have a "cherry" on top anymore, anyone younger than 45 has probably never seen one on the street, so they might not make the connection even in the unlikely event that they thought really hard about it.

[GiG]

Doing a spin on the Geo Washington parkway (along the Potomac) yesterday, there was a brand new Park Police SUV hunting speeders.  I was in my 5 under the limit, walking along looking at the water and nature and enjoying 70* in Feb mode.  On my way back down, the SUV was hiding in the weeds.  Heading up to old GW's house (Mount Vernon) I passed two different bikes.  I gave them the old exaggerated helmet tap to warn of the speed trap, and they just waved back.  No idea what the tap on the helmet means.

I don't think "police ahead" warning signals are in the book you study to get your MC licence.  Probably not taught in MSF courses either.  That type of information is acquired by word-of-mouth.  Because police cars never have a "cherry" on top anymore, anyone younger than 45 has probably never seen one on the street, so they might not make the connection even in the unlikely event that they thought really hard about it.

Has nothing to do with the cherry.

It goes back to when (mostly) only cops wore helmets. Thus, the helmet tap is to warn "cop ahead".
Most do not understand what it signifies these days. I give the signal often, sometimes to bikers when I am in a cage, and occasionally get a knowing response. The ones that get it usually respond like an "OK" or "Thanks".
The clueless others tend to be kids or middle aged with no bugs on the bike (new riders). They smile and wave or just look real confused.

A couple years ago I saved a sport biker from getting a ticket on 275 in Livonia, which happens to issue the most tickets in the country (look it up). I was in left lane approaching a spot the state boys like to hide. I saw the state boy's front bumper just as the sport bike guy was flying up behind me. I put my hand out the window of my Eldorado with the palm down "slow down" motion.
Sport guy looked pissed at first, then came around and gave a thumbs up.
 I bet he know what THAT sign means now  

[MarkT]

In the places I ride, flashing the headlights off & on to oncoming traffic means "hazard ahead".  Might be deer, other animals, an accident, something on the road or road damage, a radar trap.  It could also be taken to mean "go ahead" if the situation warrants. So you want to be clear you are using it correctly, not indiscriminantly - don't use if the meaning might be mistaken.  At least that's how I do it.

As far as colored lights that depart from OEM - those restrictions are a fn of state laws. If you have non-standard lights, check the laws in the states you are riding before use.  e.g. here in CO, red and blue lights visible from the centerline front of the vehicle are proscribed. Wig-wag lights, lights that flash in a manner that does not comply with the federal modulator standard, also forbidden.  Colored sidelights, no restrictions mentioned in the law. Front signal lights amber or white, rear signal lights amber or red, brake lights red.  There are no specific lumen / wattage or degrees Kelvin (indicates colors exactly)  definitions specified in the laws given online. Making compliance and enforcement difficult and the purview of litigators. But you can always find references to such specificity written into those laws. e.g., "pursuent to" statements referencing paragraphs elsewhere. Probably need a legal team to dig them out and argue them in court.  Lawyers setting up their job security!  Best to install a switch to easily shut off lights a LEO might object to. "Oops left the bike show lights on. Click."

As for me - I make sure I am very visible and also I can see hazards on the road very well.  Very bright lights that are "off-road" use but always used with care not to blind oncoming traffic. Yeah I killed two muley's on Deerslayer and now watch for deer more than most, I'm sure.

[solo1]

It pays to associate only with experienced riders.

When I was at Johnson City Inzane, I was following my son, Mad6Gun. Ahead of him was 98T, I was in my black Miata.  Mark went down in a blind curve.  The couple behind me on their Valk Interstate immediately stopped , got off their bike, and slowed traffic.  A very nice couple and I don't remember their names.

I wonder if many riders of other brand of bikes would be that professional?

[old2soon]

It pays to associate only with experienced riders.

When I was at Johnson City Inzane, I was following my son, Mad6Gun. Ahead of him was 98T, I was in my black Miata.  Mark went down in a blind curve.  The couple behind me on their Valk Interstate immediately stopped , got off their bike, and slowed traffic.  A very nice couple and I don't remember their names.

I wonder if many riders of other brand of bikes would be that professional?

                 Wayne-soon as you mentioned "brand" I HAD to say something.  Lots of my P G R Brothers and sisters are on other "brands" AND I Would Ride just about ANYWHERE with Most of them BUT by No means ALL of them.  And a LOT of my P G R ridin friends are a LOT younger than I am BUT are willing to listen to an Old Head!  The Fact that my P G R friends and me are Willing to learn something "new" is telling in itself. NOT even Close to a rebuke so PLEASE don't take It as such. I Generally respect your opinion in Most if Not ALL matters here! RIDE SAFE.

[hubcapsc]

I've had Harley riders stop numerous times when I was stopped on the
side of the road looking at my map. Oh yeah, a Harley rider stopped to
help us this day too (Robert's bike wouldn't start):



-Mike

[solo1]

Dennis, yeah, that was too broad a statement.  I didn't necessarily mean HD rider, mostly I was thinking of crotch rocket youngsters.

[Jess from VA]

Around here, if they catch you flashing your lights at folks to warn of cops, they'll get mad and give you a ticket.  You may be able to beat it in court, but if you have to go to my court you already lost.  There's like 1000 people there every day.  Many of the stories are very funny (or very stupid), but it gets old.  You need to take a lunch, and a pillow, and try not to to be asleep when they call your name. (But if you get caught eating lunch, or talking, the bailiff throws you out)         

Not here, OK issue a bench warrant.

Wait!  I'm here, I just dozed off. 

OK, sit down, we'll call you later.

Can I just plead guilty and pay (and leave)?

No.   

So instead of flashing lights, we riders have the double secret head tap for each other.  I guess it's so secret only a few know about it. 

[old2soon]

Dennis, yeah, that was too broad a statement.  I didn't necessarily mean HD rider, mostly I was thinking of crotch rocket youngsters.

                That wuz kinda what I wuz thinkin but Happy you Sir did the clarification!  Some of US are quite capable of having a civil exchange of ideas.  I was coming out of Kansas City Ks. one night-it were already dark-and I was on my Phatt Ghurl and one lane over from far right running bout 70 M P H and Even with ALL the noise I was hearing the mad hornet sound of some crotch rockets was unmistakable. BUT the C Rs were in the middle lane goin the other way-North versus my South they Were in their proper lane-BUT of the Five of them-Four were in high speed wheelies.    And All I could thin of at that moment was a line from some long departed medical drama-Donor Cycles!  RIDE SAFE.

[MarkT]

Around here, if they catch you flashing your lights at folks to warn of cops, they'll get mad and give you a ticket.  You may be able to beat it in court, but if you have to go to my court you already lost. 

There have been a number of legal challenges to such tickets.  Based on the first amendment IIRC. Against the cop's argument, "obstruction of justice".  I think the Consitution has precedent.  And there are web sites and devices such as GPS models and phone aps that warn of radar traps, that won such cases.  On road trips and locally - I nearly always flash to warn of such hazards. I think VA is one of the few states that outlaws radar detectors, aren't they?  Personally, I believe if they have the right to radiate me I have the right to detect it.  JMHO. And I have the right to communicate there are govt operations going on ahead.

[scooperhsd]

Yes - VA has the "no Radar Detector  rule / law"  I don't really see the point - the places they would really want to use it - there's too much traffic to make it safe (think I-95 between Richmond and DC) - I have seen people driving 75+ in the heavy traffic, doing the bob and weave.

[Bighead]

I've had Harley riders stop numerous times when I was stopped on the
side of the road looking at my map. Oh yeah, a Harley rider stopped to
help us this day too (Robert's bike wouldn't start):



-Mike

JOE,Terry,whimp just want to know who is showing their ars?

[cookiedough]

you will be seeing in a few short years more and more being the norm a lot more new vehicles with LED headlights in cool styles as well, is only the beginning the past few years.

What really annoys me, not sure if LED or not,  is the off colored blueish headlights of oncoming vehicles that are bright as all heck almost blinding the oncoming vehicles.  Very annoying and some should be illegal. 

[gordonv]

Around here, if they catch you flashing your lights at folks to warn of cops, they'll get mad and give you a ticket.  You may be able to beat it in court, but if you have to go to my court you already lost. 

There have been a number of legal challenges to such tickets.  Based on the first amendment IIRC. Against the cop's argument, "obstruction of justice".  I think the Consitution has precedent.  And there are web sites and devices such as GPS models and phone aps that warn of radar traps, that won such cases.  On road trips and locally - I nearly always flash to warn of such hazards. I think VA is one of the few states that outlaws radar detectors, aren't they?  Personally, I believe if they have the right to radiate me I have the right to detect it.  JMHO. And I have the right to communicate there are govt operations going on ahead.

It hasn't happened to me, but I have had someone I know say they got a ticket. It was for having their headlight not dimmed, within X distance of another driver. Even though it was day light. Nothing about warning about a cop ahead.

I wonder what would happen if lights where flashed for an emergency/caution ahead, and a ticket given?

[MarkT]

I generally don't flash the high beams, I flash the lights off.  On the bike, hit the starter that shuts off the headlight (and spots if you have it wired that way).  BTW I run my H4 spots on high during the daytime.  At night, switch the selector so they go high when the headlight does.

If signalling a radar trap causes folks to slow down, doesn't that fulfill the purpose of the cops setting up the radar in the first place?  Unless of course their real purpose is not slow down / safety but revenue generation.  Good argument I think.

[signart]

Lights or no lights, they won't save ya.  Cagers either don't look or don't care.
I rode 80 mi. yesterday running errands and scoping out a couple jobs. I could have been killed 4 times. 3 didn't care (pulled out from a side street in front of me) and 1 didn't look ( slow car in his lane so he changed lanes as my front wheel was along side his rear wheel). First time I've locked up my front wheel and screeched the tire before I could get on my rears.
The three that pulled out, let all the cars go. If I had maintained my speed, would have crashed. I give plenty of room behind the cage so they can see me. They see a bike and view this as time to go.  Gets so you don't even think about it anymore, I just expect it.
Count 'em next time. I don't even tell my wife.

[MarkT]

Lights or no lights, they won't save ya.  Cagers either don't look or don't care.
I rode 80 mi. yesterday running errands and scoping out a couple jobs. I could have been killed 4 times. 3 didn't care (pulled out from a side street in front of me) and 1 didn't look ( slow car in his lane so he changed lanes as my front wheel was along side his rear wheel). First time I've locked up my front wheel and screeched the tire before I could get on my rears.
The three that pulled out, let all the cars go. If I had maintained my speed, would have crashed. I give plenty of room behind the cage so they can see me. They see a bike and view this as time to go.  Gets so you don't even think about it anymore, I just expect it.
Count 'em next time. I don't even tell my wife.

This discussion has two different points - flashing off as a courtesy to advise of a hazard ahead to the oncoming driver, which hazard is now behind me.  I often receive such advice-flashes as well. And using lights to make yourself more visible for our safety.  I was discussing mainly the former.

For MY safety I run 4 spots and a high-power 130/90 headlight.  On Deerslayer, that includes a modulator. Jade & Deerslayer have powerful spots that are wired to come on or go high beam when the headlight is switched high. Deerslayer, they are A/C landing lights.  Jade, they are H4 headlights. the crashbar spots are smaller halogens or LED and are on continuously. When I see a cage planning to cross my path - I switch to high beam - headlight goes high (and modulates on Deerslayer) and the two powerful spots go high (if not already high) or come on. I have NEVER had a failure-to-yield (in front of me)  incident since implementing this setup and procedure around 2000 and nearly 250,000 miles in mixed city / rural traffic. These lights make daydreaming / autopilot driving / texting drivers suddenly aware there's a bike here. I have had a handful of sideways lane encroachments which these lights won't prevent when they don't look in their mirror or over their shoulder.  I stay out of blind spots / move through them quickly.  My rule is - don't trust them or leave my safety up to them.

Sounds like you need to make your bike have a much bigger profile from the front - big like a car.  With bright spots spread out.  If you already have that - don't know what to say.  My experience, is incidents like you describe are due to folks operating on auto-pilot or texting / on the phone. Their brains aren't engaged and they are like buggy software with a bad error handler - the error being you on a bike - their autopilot handles 4-wheelers in traffic but not a narrow profile bike - so you might as well be invisible.  Fix that.