A new explanation of hearing problem for me

[solo1]

                                                     My Personal Hearing Loss

I was reading a medical article in the local paper today and have possibly come up with an answer to a question  that I have had.  A question that hearing aids have not answered.

I am fitted with very good hearing aids and they help a lot in bringing up to a hearing level the frequency loss that I have in the middle range of 2500 to 3500 Hz.  This is the range required for understanding the human voice.

However, in a noisy environment it is impossible for me to hear normal conversation. I sit like a bump on a log when our family meets for a special event in a restaurant.  I also avoid  meetings or banquets where the same sitaution happens. It is like I'm either behind trying to catch up on what people say or it's simply a loud mess.

The article sorta confirms my suspicion that something else is going on.  While the results are preliminary, they indicate that persons exposed to loud noise resulting in permanent or even temporary tinnitis, have caused damage to their hearing process. Here is what's different from conventional thnking. The celia in the ears (fine hairs of varying length) transmit their vibrations through nerves to be processed by the brain. The result is sound as we know it.  However, loud noise can permanently damage the nerves, not the cilia, resulting in a NORMAL audiogram BUT a total loss of understanding in a noisy environment.

To me, that makes sense.  I have that problem. It is a social negative that I don't need.

I think that my hearing loss started in the Army and was aggravated by my profession as a environmental test technician even though I wore hearing muffs.  Most will experience a hearing loss as they age but this is beyond that.

My loss was NOT caused by riding with loud pipes.  I never thought that was a good idea.   However, to each his own.  Something to think about as you get older.  I think about it whenever I must decline to go with the family to a restaurant. What should be a pleasant experience for me isn't anymore,just noise and frustration.

Wayne, solo1

[Wizzard]

I have the exact same problem and I have hearing aids. I bought expensive hearing aids that they can tailor the frequencies it amplifies. Plus I can shut of the rear microphones which cuts the noise level in half. Then I turn up the front mics and I can hear conversations in restaurants ect. Its not perfect but it works for me.

[old2soon]

Around unmuffled engines-Military recips race engines-pick a venue jet aircraft and yer assorted pistols rifles and shot guns and stood just behind a couple 5" 38s in use. Also put a few belts thru a .30 cal air cooled. Most of the time BUT NOT all the time with proper-for that time period-ear protection. And like you Wayne in a place with high back round noise I get the same unintelligible "noise" to my ears. One on one face to face in a low noise level situation I'm good to go. I've been near the starting line when top fuel dragsters and funny cars have launched. There is NO brag here BUT I have NOT been kind to my body and/or my ears. AND I AM paying the price now. But I WILL say this-would NOT change ANYTHING! You mentioned Wayne the being behind feeling in large groups? Well aware of that feeling and I just try to do the best I can. Wayne-as a suggestion from a Friend-I've met and broken bread with your Family-you REALLY Need to be at those git togethers-EVEN if ya gotta play catch up. My 2 pennies worth and Not worth that much.    RIDE SAFE

[Wizzard]

Around unmuffled engines-Military recips race engines-pick a venue jet aircraft and yer assorted pistols rifles and shot guns and stood just behind a couple 5" 38s in use. Also put a few belts thru a .30 cal air cooled. Most of the time BUT NOT all the time with proper-for that time period-ear protection. And like you Wayne in a place with high back round noise I get the same unintelligible "noise" to my ears. One on one face to face in a low noise level situation I'm good to go. I've been near the starting line when top fuel dragsters and funny cars have launched. There is NO brag here BUT I have NOT been kind to my body and/or my ears. AND I AM paying the price now. But I WILL say this-would NOT change ANYTHING! You mentioned Wayne the being behind feeling in large groups? Well aware of that feeling and I just try to do the best I can. Wayne-as a suggestion from a Friend-I've met and broken bread with your Family-you REALLY Need to be at those git togethers-EVEN if ya gotta play catch up. My 2 pennies worth and Not worth that much.    RIDE SAFE

He is right you know

[solo1]

Wizzard, my hearing aids also have two mikes. I turn off the rear mike but it doesn't help me much.
Turning the hearing aids completely off makes it better but then everyone is 'mumbling' because I've lost the middle frequencies. In addition, the brain when younger, can differentiate the microseconds in sound hitting the ears which results in knowing where the sound is coming from.  I can't do that either.
My hearing aids are Costco Kirklands (actually Resounds) and are good and the price was $1795 for the pair. Price is not always an indication of the latest in technology.

Dennis, I did make the DRU last year but the overall problem is trying to sleep in a different place.  It's bad enough in my own place, just another disadvantage of the Golden years crowd..

To repeat myself, the warranty runs out at 75 years of age.  I'm 14 years over.

[Wizzard]

Wayne,, do not know anything about the tech,, except mine cost 5k and when I go in to the office and I describe any problems they adjust them from a computer and it communicates and programs them wireless. If I tell them a problem like you are describing they make adjustments till it gets better.  Mine are Starkey is the brand. As you know,, insurance does not pay a dime. I guess its not an impairment not to hear. NOT

[old2soon]

Wizzard, my hearing aids also have two mikes. I turn off the rear mike but it doesn't help me much.
Turning the hearing aids completely off makes it better but then everyone is 'mumbling' because I've lost the middle frequencies. In addition, the brain when younger, can differentiate the microseconds in sound hitting the ears which results in knowing where the sound is coming from.  I can't do that either.
My hearing aids are Costco Kirklands (actually Resounds) and are good and the price was $1795 for the pair. Price is not always an indication of the latest in technology.

Dennis, I did make the DRU last year but the overall problem is trying to sleep in a different place.  It's bad enough in my own place, just another disadvantage of the Golden years crowd..

To repeat myself, the warranty runs out at 75 years of age.  I'm 14 years over.

                 So yer tellin my I got like less than 3 years left on My warranty?  Ask some of the people I ride with-they'll tell ya it ran out Before I retired!  Thanks Wayne.  RIDE SAFE.

[solo1]

Same here Wizzard.. Wireless adjusting anytime, complete disassembly and cleaning every 6 months, audio reevaluation every six months, plus they use a mike inside the ear to monitor hearing aid response due to individual ear canals.  Three years no s*** warranty.  Any complaints before three years , no costs.  After three years, nominal costs.
The big difference is that Costco employs knowledgeable techs, not audiologists and they are straight salary, not commission. Costco buys in huge numbers and their hearing aid section is not fancy in the store but has the latest in test equipment. All this keeps the costs down.  The only thing that they cannot do is clean the ears, only audiologists can???  I'm sold on Costco.

I sold hearing aids many years ago and I was turned off at the high costs.

[MarkT]

Same here Wizzard.. Wireless adjusting anytime, complete disassembly and cleaning every 6 months, audio reevaluation every six months, plus they use a mike inside the ear to monitor hearing aid response due to individual ear canals.  Three years no s*** warranty.  Any complaints before three years , no costs.  After three years, nominal costs.
The big difference is that Costco employs knowledgeable techs, not audiologists and they are straight salary, not commission. Costco buys in huge numbers and their hearing aid section is not fancy in the store but has the latest in test equipment. All this keeps the costs down.  The only thing that they cannot do is clean the ears, only audiologists can???  I'm sold on Costco.

I sold hearing aids many years ago and I was turned off at the high costs.

Costco is a great company.  For many reasons.

Noticed a product advertised on TV that I invented long ago - now somebody has marketed it. My invention was using a pulse warm water or oil ear cleaner - like a Water Pic only with less pressure. Now you can buy one.  I should be driving a Ferrari.  Yeah I know, just having the idea, and even prototyping it, is a long way from bringing the invention to market.

I have the same problem.  I don't get how people can go to noisy environs - a loud bar or restaurant - and have conversations.  If I had to patronize "meat markets" to "get some" I would fagetaboutit.  Left 40% of my hearing in the war - thx to flightlines and not always having my muffs handy.  The exit exams of course found no loss.  Pretty sure they are paid according to such denials. Haven't looked into hearing aids - don't want to go there.  I just stay out of loud places.  Even my pipes are not loud - Run Jade with silencers, Organ Pipes, and a wad of SS wool in front of the silencers - can't hear the engine at highway speeds.  George - the custom pipes look loud but they aren't - I hand-made the hybrid glass/SS wool packs sized for the blower, with 1" I.D. inner tube with LOTS of sound absorbing voids and a crossover to improve breathing w/o noise.  Both bikes quieter than the wind at road speed. Deerslayer is a bit louder. Wear ear plugs on long rides - though that's not easy; I have small ear holes - hard to insert them.

[solo1]

Mark, I agree with you. The hearing aids help a lot in the HUH? situation for me.  In my Board of Works meeting, it is quiet and the aids let me understand all of the words that the staff utters.

The aids fill in the missing frequencies of the voice, a genuine help.  I also found that in a quiet setting, without hearing aids,  I can hear ok on  a face to face QSO but if the other person covers their mouth or turns away while they're talking, I lose it. I couldn't believe that I was unconsciously reading  lips but i guess that I do.

[Atl-Jerry]

When I retired from the Air Force in '94 they identified hearing loss and tinnitus.  I saw an audiologist about 5 years ago and they confirmed that it has not gotten any better and tried to sell me some hearing aids.   My insurance would provide them but I knew I wouldn't wear them so I didn't pursue them.  For the last few years I've noticed sometimes, not always, I seem to hear the words OK, but can't comprehend a single word of it.  I'm thinking about going back and trying the hearing aids....hell, I'm just a kid!

[Jess from VA]

I have little if any hearing loss, but man I could do without the more on than off tinnitus.  

I've been listening to it for so long, I rarely even notice it, except in dead quiet.

My head sounds like an old tube electronic device turned on, but with the volume all the way down.... but there's still the electronic tone in there.   Listening to it now.  

Hello, hello?  Anyone home?

Be nice if there was a fuse you could pull.

There are websites that have meds (non prescription, OTC, vitamin type stuff) that claim to help many people, but I'm not a pill taker.  Oxy can be fun, but it makes it much worse, not better.  

[solo1]

What many don't realize is that if your brain doesn't hear the words correctly, it gets lazy and forgets them.
It is possible to start wearing hearing aids and find that they don't help because the brain doesn't recognize the "new"words that were missing..  That's one reason why when first wearing hearing aids that they sound too loud. 

[Rio Wil]

I have a theory that goes along with the hearing loss caused by aging/damage of the ear structures, it kinda goes like this.
It seems to me the heariong process is much like a Cd disk with music or words on it. The word say 'pluto' is encoded onto the CD by sampling the frequencies of the word in a 'serial' fashion, ie the 'p' is the first sound sampled by the  CD electronics and is converted to digital encoding (ones and zeros) that can be recorded....this might be outdated info but seems like the sampling rates used to be about 45Khz.  Lets say it takes about a second to say the word pluto, then there would be a 45000 samples of the frequencies that make up the word pluto and recorded digitally on the disc. Lets say for some reason the sampling rate was decreased from 45Khz to 20Khz. Now we have less resolution of the word pluto and perhaps it begins to now sound like "uho".  Now our brain receives ( in the same serial fashion) this sound 'uto' and samples it trying to convert it to some kind of understandable audio intelligence.....and likely doesn't succeed.

So the premise of this thought  is....what if the processing "clock" of the brain begins to slow down as we age. Back in the day, we used to be able to carry on 2-3-4 conversations with as many people and time share thoughts because our processing clock was running at max speed. What happens if our processing clock begins to slow down as we age (along with any ear structural damage)
say from 10 Ghz to 9 then 8 then 7.....you get the idea. We no longer have the brain bandwidth to process many sounds and sort them into categories or assign meanings to the sounds or to filter out background trash noise.  So in an environment with background noises of any sort, our slowed down brain simply can't process the audio and produce any intelligence......until the commercials come on and the ad industry understands to not add any distracting background garbage and the audio is crystal clear.....except for any reduction of quality our damaged ears might contribute.

As we age, it simply takes longer to comprehend words, visuals, etc, is it because of our brain clock slowing down......or is it simply a COMCAST plot....



   




 

[scooperhsd]

No substantial hearing loss for me yet (I'm "only" 56.5) - I still can hear 20 KHz, can have the TV and music coming out of the computer at the same time and can enjoy both (but it drives the wife crazy when I do that). Only real hearing loss I've had is in my right ear - I'm down about 20 dB in frequencies below 2000 Hz - exposure to the brass section in Orchestra in Jr High and High School (I played cello or string bass - whichever was needed). However - I have ALWAYS HATED loud noisy restaurants and other places with high levels of ambient random noise.  Wind noise on a long bike ride bothers me also (that's what ear plugs are for!!!)- especially loud pipes !!! Also not too crazy about going to loud concerts.

There is a big difference to me between loud, random noise and a loud playing of music - I can tolerate the music much better.

[art]

Same here Wizzard.. Wireless adjusting anytime, complete disassembly and cleaning every 6 months, audio reevaluation every six months, plus they use a mike inside the ear to monitor hearing aid response due to individual ear canals.  Three years no s*** warranty.  Any complaints before three years , no costs.  After three years, nominal costs.
The big difference is that Costco employs knowledgeable techs, not audiologists and they are straight salary, not commission. Costco buys in huge numbers and their hearing aid section is not fancy in the store but has the latest in test equipment. All this keeps the costs down.  The only thing that they cannot do is clean the ears, only audiologists can???  I'm sold on Costco.

I sold hearing aids many years ago and I was turned off at the high costs.

Costco is a great company.  For many reasons.

Noticed a product advertised on TV that I invented long ago - now somebody has marketed it. My invention was using a pulse warm water or oil ear cleaner - like a Water Pic only with less pressure. Now you can buy one.  I should be driving a Ferrari.  Yeah I know, just having the idea, and even prototyping it, is a long way from bringing the invention to market.

I have the same problem.  I don't get how people can go to noisy environs - a loud bar or restaurant - and have conversations.  If I had to patronize "meat markets" to "get some" I would fagetaboutit.  Left 40% of my hearing in the war - thx to flightlines and not always having my muffs handy.  The exit exams of course found no loss.  Pretty sure they are paid according to such denials. Haven't looked into hearing aids - don't want to go there.  I just stay out of loud places.  Even my pipes are not loud - Run Jade with silencers, Organ Pipes, and a wad of SS wool in front of the silencers - can't hear the engine at highway speeds.  George - the custom pipes look loud but they aren't - I hand-made the hybrid glass/SS wool packs sized for the blower, with 1" I.D. inner tube with LOTS of sound absorbing voids and a crossover to improve breathing w/o noise.  Both bikes quieter than the wind at road speed. Deerslayer is a bit louder. Wear ear plugs on long rides - though that's not easy; I have small ear holes - hard to insert them.

    I just had to chime in on this for you. I too have the same problems as most people and don't have the funds for hearing aids plus dentures,and eye problems. My warranty is also running out at 74 here. I have small holes in my ears like you so I buy the ear plugs in bulk from the MSC catalog which is a industrial supplier of machine tooling etc.  They are the green soft foam ones you can get from gun shops for a few bucks for two or four. I buy about 100 and they last for several years. I have to cut them in half even as small as they are,I don't like these big green things sticking out of my ears. I even use them when I go to the movies because I can't stand the loud sounds of the movies. I'm not only going deaf but loud sound drives me crazy.

[art]

Mark, I agree with you. The hearing aids help a lot in the HUH? situation for me.  In my Board of Works meeting, it is quiet and the aids let me understand all of the words that the staff utters.

The aids fill in the missing frequencies of the voice, a genuine help.  I also found that in a quiet setting, without hearing aids,  I can hear ok on  a face to face QSO but if the other person covers their mouth or turns away while they're talking, I lose it. I couldn't believe that I was unconsciously reading  lips but i guess that I do.

  While walking to the car through the Walmart parking lot some years back my wife was talking to me from behind and complained about me not being able to hear and having to repeat everything. I went off on her and told her to either talk louder or shut up. It worked she does speak up but still complains.

[Wizzard]

Mark, I agree with you. The hearing aids help a lot in the HUH? situation for me.  In my Board of Works meeting, it is quiet and the aids let me understand all of the words that the staff utters.

The aids fill in the missing frequencies of the voice, a genuine help.  I also found that in a quiet setting, without hearing aids,  I can hear ok on  a face to face QSO but if the other person covers their mouth or turns away while they're talking, I lose it. I couldn't believe that I was unconsciously reading  lips but i guess that I do.

  While walking to the car through the Walmart parking lot some years back my wife was talking to me from behind and complained about me not being able to hear and having to repeat everything. I went off on her and told her to either talk louder or shut up. It worked she does speak up but still complains.

Now thats a good solution