Let It Implode? (Affordable Care Act)

[G-Man]

I've heard Trump say it numerous times "If we just do nothing, it will implode on its on".

Maybe they should let it.  My heart aches saying it, because I know too many good people will be directly affected, but it would shut an awful lot of people up.  It will show exactly what certain politicians have become and what they really think of their constituents. 

And as time goes by, and Democrats "resist", the "law" continues to crumble and premiums and deductibles soar as insurance companies head for the hills..............

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-05-10/aetna-is-latest-health-insurer-to-quit-obamacare-markets

[Wizzard]

I've heard Trump say it numerous times "If we just do nothing, it will implode on its on".

Maybe they should let it.  My heart aches saying it, because I know too many good people will be directly affected, but it would shut an awful lot of people up.  It will show exactly what certain politicians have become and what they really think of their constituents.  

And as time goes by, and Democrats "resist", the "law" continues to crumble and premiums and deductibles soar as insurance companies head for the hills..............

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-05-10/aetna-is-latest-health-insurer-to-quit-obamacare-markets

Yep,, folks griped when insurance was high years back, , so they got Obama care,, then they griped about Obama care,, now they are griping because Obama care seems to be on the brink of demise. I get the impression unless its free,, many will gripe.

[Serk]

I'm torn on this one. If we let Obamacare implode on it's own many more people will suffer and die (I've already lost one friend directly because of Obamacare, I don't want to lose anymore) but Trumpcare just delays the inevitable, it keep about 80% of Obamacare in tact, and then when IT implodes it will be "our" fault, even if countless lives would be saved.

On the flip side, the taskmasters on the left are already whipping their followers up into believing that Obamacare is wonderful and it's impending failure is because Republicans wouldn't go along with it, and THAT'S why it's failing.

Regardless, I fear either way it will succeed in it's ultimate goal of destroying the pre-existing US healthcare system (See what I did there?) to make a clear path for a full communist "single payer" system like those on the hard left have been dreaming of for decades.

[G-Man]

I've heard Trump say it numerous times "If we just do nothing, it will implode on its on".

Maybe they should let it.  My heart aches saying it, because I know too many good people will be directly affected, but it would shut an awful lot of people up.  It will show exactly what certain politicians have become and what they really think of their constituents.  

And as time goes by, and Democrats "resist", the "law" continues to crumble and premiums and deductibles soar as insurance companies head for the hills..............

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-05-10/aetna-is-latest-health-insurer-to-quit-obamacare-markets

Yep,, folks griped when insurance was high years back, , so they got Obama care,, then they griped about Obama care,, now they are griping because Obama care seems to be on the brink of demise. I get the impression unless its free,, many will gripe.

It's free in all of the "industrialized" nations we keep on being compared to, and half of them still gripe.  And they do it on a MUCH smaller scale than we would have to.  Canada has 10% of our population, Great Britain about 20%.  And we also allow a million to legally immigrate here every year on top of that.  

And after all of this crap, in the last 7 years, nothing has ever been done to reduce the actual cost of providing healthcare to a patient.  The MRI is still $800 or more, an ER visit to find out your kid has gas pains is still $1200 because they had to work her up for appendicitis, Drs. still play defensive medicine, and regulations on the entire industry from transportation, to drugs, to interactions between industries within healthcare, etc., etc. are insane.  All the ACA did was provide an awful lot of people some kind of care, while squeezing a whole lot less people into paying for it.  

[old2soon]

I'm not really all that concerned about myself. At 72 with the health issues I already have it is what it is. Miracle cures are about as scarce as hens teeth or hittin the lottery fer the big one. What I am TRULY Worried about is what in the hell are we leaving my Kids-Grand Kids-Great Grand Kids etc etc. As I progressed thru the job market my insurance premiums kept rising while my care level slowly diminished and my deductibles went up. And at the job  retired rom while under their insurance I dealt with a network. Company I worked for based in Iowa and me living in Missouri made for some interesting times. BUT my Family and I were covered and we did in fact have insurance. We had horror stories here from board members still in the work force paying Way more and getting way way less insurance wise. nd I read the other day cuz the demoncraps ain't gittin their way the want everything to come to a halt in deception central. Has anyone here been asked what they want? I for one m getting extremely tired of being TOLD what is good for me and here it is you have zero choice and if you don't take it we will fine you. Course they didn't ask me when they drafted me into Military Service either. When I see what "average" out of pocket expenses are for medical care I for one am cursed Happy I served. NO I do NOT know what t answer is. I do KNOW the gubmint needs to git the hell out of the insurance/medical BUSINESS. RIDE SAFE.

[Rams]

An implosion would only lead to Congress being forced to come up with money to continue it by those who are recipients.       All imploding will do is prove that it is too expensive.    I could almost support ACA if, they took the funds that support it out of other Social Entitlement Programs but, they won't do that.   They will simply want more tax dollars from those of us who are already paying the way.   

I have never read in our Constitution anything about life being a rose garden.    We're all going to die.   I personally believe that each of us has the responsibility to take care of ourselves and our own families.    I do not believe it's anyone else's responsibility to ensure I get health care.   I pay for insurance and I expect other's who want a free ride to pay for their own or suffer the consequences.    

Charity begins at home and is carried forward at church, it is not the US Tax Payer's responsibility to pay for my insurance, my health care, the food on my table, the vehicle I drive, the cell phone I use or the home I live in.    I firmly believe that giving an inch leads to the recipients demanding a mile.    This insanity has to stop.

And yes, I apply the same rules to myself.

Will dumping Obama Care effect people?   Yes.    They may have to actually earn something to pay for their own health care.    Will people gripe, bitch and moan?   Hell yes they will.    Doesn't change a thing.    

[..]

I've heard Trump say it numerous times "If we just do nothing, it will implode on its on".

Maybe they should let it.  My heart aches saying it, because I know too many good people will be directly affected, but it would shut an awful lot of people up.  It will show exactly what certain politicians have become and what they really think of their constituents.  

And as time goes by, and Democrats "resist", the "law" continues to crumble and premiums and deductibles soar as insurance companies head for the hills..............

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-05-10/aetna-is-latest-health-insurer-to-quit-obamacare-markets

Yep,, folks griped when insurance was high years back, , so they got Obama care,, then they griped about Obama care,, now they are griping because Obama care seems to be on the brink of demise. I get the impression unless its free,, many will gripe.

It's free in all of the "industrialized" nations we keep on being compared to, and half of them still gripe.  And they do it on a MUCH smaller scale than we would have to.  

It most certainly IS NOT FREE. Everyone working in the UK contributes to the National Health System.

Nor is it free elsewhere.

Don't believe that nonsense that gets spouted.

[Jess from VA]

Trumpcare is reportedly 75-80% Obamacare.

He was elected on repeal.

Repeal Obamacare with no replacement.

Invite the market back in to play.

If you can't pay for your own health insurance, you don't get any.

[G-Man]

Impossible, Jess.

Someone, I have no idea who, said healthcare is a Right.  And the last President gave this right to 20 million more people, on top of the 80 million who were already receiving some form of Medicaid.

And you know what they say about Rights, don'tcha............  Once you give'm, they can never be taken away.

So now we have 100 million people that the working class of America will have to provide healthcare for, including themselves and their own, on top of the Medicare ponzy system.  Which is how all this will end up.  Obamacare forced only a few million have to pay for everyone's premiums, and those are the ones who are experiencing $20,000 premiums and $8,000 deductibles.  The insurance companies were forced to enroll 20 million sick people, "sicker than expected" I heard this morning, so they're just dropping out of it altogether.

But Trump will fix it.  In the end we'll all be paying through the nose for a Right.     I agree with Serk, Obamacare was set in motion to get to a specific end.  People were given things that you can't ungive. 
 

[Robert]

Health care, real health care could have been a good thing for the US. What we have now really isn't health care. Its a fleecing of the US population that pay. I dont understand why for those who get covered with thousands in deductibles is it a benefit to them. I personally am tired of paying and getting nothing really in return.

 While I wish no ill will to anyone, I really am sick and tired of hearing about not having health care and those who will die. Where is the concern for me and others, I dont hear anyone crying for us and our families, where are those outraged by me having to shell out triple of what health care cost before the ACA. Why dont I hear about people such as myself and others I know having to pay through the nose for others.

 Why dont I hear about the disappearing middle class that has been destroyed by Obama. Why dont I hear about the prosecution of establishing the health care bill on lies and finally those aholes in congress not striking down the biggest tax increase on the American public EVER. Why dont I hear that OBAMA imposed the biggest tax increase in history on the US? Where is the outrage by the population over the fact that congress, FAILED. Health care FAILED, Obama FAILED. But we wont hear anything about this will we. 


Interesting graphics on the middle class
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-22/visualizing-collapse-middle-class-20-major-us-cities

You can dam straight ungive it just stop paying, you know we need a political action committee for the middle class.

[Daycruiser]

I agree with some, instead of fighting with the Dems over ACA repeal or repair or whatever they want to call it, just let the ACA collapse under it's own weight.  Aetna pulled out today completely which doesn't leave much.  About one more year and there won't be an ACA.  Legalize selling health insurance across all state lines, create competition and let the free market go from there.  The people screaming the loudest about loosing the ACA are the same people who get the subsidized plans or in other words yet another entitlement program the Tax Payers can't afford.  Maybe if the Millennials got real jobs they'd all have coverage through their employers.  As a person that employees some millennials I can honestly say I've never seen a more narcissistic lazy generation in my life.  People who can't legitimately afford health insurance have and have always had options, Free or ability to pay clinics, Medicaid, Medicare etc.  ER's are still required by law to treat to the best of their ability any person seeking emergency medical attention regardless of their ability to pay.  Go try the crappy single payer systems in England and Canada and then come back here and appreciate what the US healthcare industry can offer in a free market.

[oldsmokey]

Talk on the radio was commenting on Blue Cross as well??????? The man stood on a claim of health care for everyone. I think we are still screwed.

[Moonshot_1]

The opportunity for Healthcare for everyone is a worthy goal. But it is not something that will come for free.

The ACA was a doomed plan from the start. What makes it worse is that everyone knew it going in.

Could discuss the political side of it adnauseam, but will try to keep it to it's structure.

The ACA attempted to "solve" healthcare for everyone with an insurance based model.
Can't be done. You can't use this model and subsidize people or cover people with pre-existing conditions.

It is important that the insurance model works for those able to purchase insurance. This would dramatically lower premiums and deductibles.

This would also exclude people who can't afford insurance or have pre-existing conditions.
Another model, non-insurance based, would be used to cover their cost. It may mean a government healthcare program that is limited to a certain amount of time and certain classes of people who require it. Perhaps to cover a person's pre=existing condition for a certain amount of time.



The ACA attempted to make this work by delving into the business community and mandating changing business models to force the funding and structure of the ACA.

The one major thing that is required for a vibrant healthcare system is a vibrant economy.
The ACA created such dysfunction in the business community that it has struggled greatly. The resources needed just to comply is staggering. It was self defeating to ensuring the integrity of the healthcare system.

It needs to be repealed, but repealed in a manageable way. And that will take time and it will likely take sacrifice on many fronts.

[Savago]

I would say let's repeal it *if* the congress/politicians are included in the process. I was told they have some pretty good health insurance paid by our money...

[The emperor has no clothes]

I would say let's repeal it *if* the congress/politicians are included in the process. I was told they have some pretty good health insurance paid by our money...

They do. And they always seem to exempt themselves from the laws us peons have to live with.

[baldo]

I would say let's repeal it *if* the congress/politicians are included in the process. I was told they have some pretty good health insurance paid by our money...

They do. And they always seem to exempt themselves from the laws us peons have to live with.

They tried to pull that crap two weeks ago. The resulting furor made them think twice about it, and pulled it back.

[Robert]

Democrat Refers to Middle America as ‘Podunk, USA’
http://freebeacon.com/politics/democrat-refers-middle-america-podunk-usa/
Sources inside the meeting told the Free Beacon that Eshoo was frustrated with Pai's comments. She wished out loud that Pai would stop talking about "Podunk, USA" and instead be more concerned about the venture capitalists on Sand Hill Road in her district near Palo Alto, according to the sources.

Olbermann Calls On Foreign Intelligence Services to Overthrow the U.S. Government. Really.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/olbermann-calls-on-foreign-intelligence-services-to-overthow-the-u.s.-government.-really./article/2008007?custom_click=rss?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=TWSAutoTweet

[Romeo]

It'll be single payer in five years, like it or not. That a republican run government has put forth a bill to help pay for our healthcare is proof that both parties now think healthcare insurance is a right of the people. What kind of healthcare gets covered will decided on ho much of our money we are willing to pay in taxes. 

[hubcapsc]

I would say let's repeal it *if* the congress/politicians are included in the process. I was told they have some pretty good health insurance paid by our money...

They do. And they always seem to exempt themselves from the laws us peons have to live with.

I'm on Trump's mailing list. He sez:

And most importantly, Congress will NO LONGER be exempt from our health care laws. Your representatives will be forced to follow the same laws as We The People.

We'll see.

-Mike

[The emperor has no clothes]

I would say let's repeal it *if* the congress/politicians are included in the process. I was told they have some pretty good health insurance paid by our money...

They do. And they always seem to exempt themselves from the laws us peons have to live with.

I'm on Trump's mailing list. He sez:

And most importantly, Congress will NO LONGER be exempt from our health care laws. Your representatives will be forced to follow the same laws as We The People.

We'll see.

-Mike

Well then. On this, Trump and I are in agreement.

[Alpha Dog]

There is a model in place right now that could take care of 80 to 90 percent of health care at a very reasonable cost and create tremendous competition.  In fact it was the one that was basically the model at the turn of the 20th century until the insurance companies gained control around 1938.   They are local primary care co op of sorts.  Dr. Josh Umbehr of Atlas MD in Wichita, KS has a group of doctors involved.  They charge 50 dollars per month for adults and 10 dollars per month for children.  They buy pills at up to 95 percent reduction.  An EKG cost additional 37 cents, not several hundred.  I have heard him speak of his operation several times in last couple months and state govts are contacting him as well as congress people.  He has helped other co op doctors set up similar operations in over 200 communities in past few years.  

https://atlas.md/wichita/

[old2soon]

There is a model in place right now that could take care of 80 to 90 percent of health care at a very reasonable cost and create tremendous competition.  In fact it was the one that was basically the model at the turn of the 20th century until the insurance companies gained control around 1938.   They are local primary care co op of sorts.  Dr. Josh Umbehr of Atlas MD in Wichita, KS has a group of doctors involved.  They charge 50 dollars per month for adults and 10 dollars per month for children.  They buy pills at up to 95 percent reduction.  An EKG cost additional 37 cents, not several hundred.  I have heard him speak of his operation several times in last couple months and state govts are contacting him as well as congress people.  He has helped other co op doctors set up similar operations in over 200 communities in past few years. 

                 Oh heavens to murgatroyd! A way to save money stead of squeezing every thing they can and then demand MORE. I also realize drug research and testing costs money as does medical professional training. BUT I believe repayment could be spread out over a few years until the lawsuits start. But on the other hand what the hell duz I know?  RIDE SAFE.

[G-Man]

I've heard Trump say it numerous times "If we just do nothing, it will implode on its on".

Maybe they should let it.  My heart aches saying it, because I know too many good people will be directly affected, but it would shut an awful lot of people up.  It will show exactly what certain politicians have become and what they really think of their constituents.  

And as time goes by, and Democrats "resist", the "law" continues to crumble and premiums and deductibles soar as insurance companies head for the hills..............

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-05-10/aetna-is-latest-health-insurer-to-quit-obamacare-markets

Yep,, folks griped when insurance was high years back, , so they got Obama care,, then they griped about Obama care,, now they are griping because Obama care seems to be on the brink of demise. I get the impression unless its free,, many will gripe.

It's free in all of the "industrialized" nations we keep on being compared to, and half of them still gripe.  And they do it on a MUCH smaller scale than we would have to.  

It most certainly IS NOT FREE. Everyone working in the UK contributes to the National Health System.

Nor is it free elsewhere.

Don't believe that nonsense that gets spouted.

Oh, believe me, I fully understand that nothing is free.  I know the Brits get taxed through the nose.  I should have put quotation marks around the first part of the post.

[Serk]

Gotta love that communist healthcare system like the UK has...

No thanks...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/02/obese-patients-and-smokers-banned-from-all-routine-operations-by/

[Patrick]

Obama care summed up in one sentence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdnY8r7_fLw

[..]

Obama care summed up in one sentence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdnY8r7_fLw

Thanks for the memory   

[Alpha Dog]

ACA was doomed from the start as was predicted by those that really studied and understood it.  As bad as it was the really bad stuff would start to show up after O left office, nice clever trick by tricksters.  Those that had to pay for this plan can not use it due to ever increasing premiums and ridiculous deductables of 6 to 12k and more per year.    ( remember the 2500 dollar decrease BS and Gruber explaining how they got it passed and lined up their lapdog media members by explaining they were useful idiots that would help sell the plan, even though it was far from what it was being portrayed as.  Yes those tapes are out there.     It is in a death spiral due to all insurers pulling out, Aetna just announced. 

Is the new House bill any better.  I do not know however it can not be any worse.  The Senate will take months to do their own or they just may pass on it altogether and say we will not touch it - I say a 50/50 chance.  If nothing is done it will implode as to the original premise.  Maybe it is best to just go back to the way health care was originally or somehow encourage  a system of Co op primary care that I penned above at extremely affordable rates that almost all familys can afford.   Allied MD does a family of four at 120 dollars per month.   This does not include insurance, but instead direct payments by the covered to the physicians.   The insurance companies may be needed to do catastrophic care and pre existing causes.  Good luck with this.  The insurance companies who fund and lobby the political class will not stand for a sensible solution.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Is the new House bill any better.  I do not know however it can not be any worse. 

Be careful what you wish for. 

[Alpha Dog]

Is the new House bill any better.  I do not know however it can not be any worse. 

Be careful what you wish for. 

No where in my pen did I say I wished for it.  It is way above my pay grade.  Maybe I should say we have to pass it to see what is in it.  Yah   that works well.  ( sarcastic face not inserted )

[Rams]

Is the new House bill any better.  I do not know however it can not be any worse. 

Be careful what you wish for. 

No where in my pen did I say I wished for it.  It is way above my pay grade.  Maybe I should say we have to pass it to see what is in it.  Yah   that works well.  ( sarcastic face not inserted )

It's interesting how Pelosi's "Vote for it so you can read it to see what's in it" quote seems to have faded and is never brought up in the news.   

[The emperor has no clothes]

Is the new House bill any better.  I do not know however it can not be any worse. 

Be careful what you wish for. 

No where in my pen did I say I wished for it.  It is way above my pay grade.  Maybe I should say we have to pass it to see what is in it.  Yah   that works well.  ( sarcastic face not inserted )

It's interesting how Pelosi's "Vote for it so you can read it to see what's in it" quote seems to have faded and is never brought up in the news.   

Old news, my friend. Got to live in the present.

[Rams]

Is the new House bill any better.  I do not know however it can not be any worse. 

Be careful what you wish for. 

No where in my pen did I say I wished for it.  It is way above my pay grade.  Maybe I should say we have to pass it to see what is in it.  Yah   that works well.  ( sarcastic face not inserted )

It's interesting how Pelosi's "Vote for it so you can read it to see what's in it" quote seems to have faded and is never brought up in the news.   

Old news, my friend. Got to live in the present.

Yeah but, if the Republicans did the same thing, Pelosi would be raising hell.    And, many D's would be backing her.    In this case, Forrest Gump was right................

[Jess from VA]

Repeal in it's entirety!

[Serk]

Repeal in it's entirety!

...it's the only way to be sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCbfMkh940Q

[old2soon]

Repeal in it's entirety!

                  Much like mythological beasts cutting it's head off will NOT kill it. The ENTIRE beast MUST be killed and burned and the ashes scattered to the four winds. Prior to this abortion called aca I could actually afford medical insurance for me and mine. My deductables were reasonable given my paychecks at the time. Some Doctors I knew did pro bono-yeah I know that applies to Lawyers-work Knowing they might get sued. BUT the whole thing was manageable. Far as the female turd sayin gotta pass it to see what's in it-I rank that right up there with screen doors on the outer skin of a submarine and the other abortion-the 55 m p h speed limit that was jammed down our collective throats. There are others but these two come easily to mind as they are/were Really asinine-55 and aca. RIDE SAFE.