Erdogan bodyguards brawl Washington@DC

[Savago]

Guys

I just read the news and I'm still trying to process. I'm unsure if I should post links, as the images are frankly quite brutal.

If I understood correctly, there were some protesters (and few Americans citizens) in front of Turkey's embassy and Erdogan's bodyguards beat them up (including women).

I guess they think they are in Turkey?

I wonder if the police will go to file charges on the attackers or if they are pretty much immune because of their boss being 'well connected'?

[Savago]

A few links if you wanna know more:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/us/turkish-embassy-protest-dc.html

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/05/17/at-least-9-injured-2-arrested-after-altercation-outside-turkish-embassy-in-dc.html

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/why-turkish-bodyguards-involved-bloody-d-c-brawl-likely-won-n760926

[Willow]

I guess they think they are in Turkey?

It depends upon how far "outside" the embassy they were. Technically the Turkish embassy itself (property?) is Turkish soil.

[Savago]

Willow

They were in a public area, just watch the video if you have the stomach.

Another thing: that is no longer the embassy (it used to be until last year it seems), it is currently the house of the Turkish consul.

It is clearly a violation of the 1st amendment... remember: this are bodyguards of a president, someone had to send the order to crack up the protesters.

[..]

The aggressive bully boys should have been cuffed.

Police were remiss in their handling of the situation.

[..]

At about 11 seconds a white shirt and helmet  wearing cop hits a man with his asp. The man clearly has a holstered pistol at this waist. Yet no arrest? i thought DC was a gun free zone?

[Jess from VA]

It's a gun free zone, except for the 50 ABC agencies, even more private security contractors, and dozen or more police departments.

Oh, and not to forget, maybe a few thousand serious hoodlums.

But it's OK to have a 2.5" blade in any federal facility, if you are a law abiding type.   

[Moonshot_1]

Willow

They were in a public area, just watch the video if you have the stomach.

Another thing: that is no longer the embassy (it used to be until last year it seems), it is currently the house of the Turkish consul.

It is clearly a violation of the 1st amendment... remember: this are bodyguards of a president, someone had to send the order to crack up the protesters.

That is an asinine conclusion. What we see in the video is what the news folks want us to see. Hardly in context. You come to a conclusion based on a minute of video with no pretext as to the context of the event. Was there something that triggered it? I don't know. What happened in the 10 minutes before? Was there a perceived threat from within the protesting group? Lots of questions, yet you seem to come up with a rapid conclusion to lay blame on the President and his desire to crack up the protestors.

This event is worthy of an investigation for sure, but at this point that is it.

To call this a violation of the 1st amendment is ludicrous. I saw, on the video, police attempting to protect those exercising their 1st amendment right. This might be a lot of things but I didn't see any US government official denying anyone's right to free speech. Frankly all I saw was a malay which was quickly over. Until there is a proper investigation into what happened, no conclusion can really be made.

[Savago]

@Moonshot: You just wrote: "This is an asinine conclusion."

I decided to double check in the dictionary to make sure I didn't misunderstand. From the dictionary: as·i·nine: adj, "extremely stupid or foolish".

Is pretty hard to keep the discussion civilized after this but I will try.

The police was there trying to keep both groups from engage. They actually tried to help the people who were down and being kicked by the bodyguards. Watch the video again and you will see that the bodyguards crossed to the other side of the street and started to assault the protesters.

The violation was made by foreign agents from Turkey serving Erdogan in American territory. Is it clear enough?

'A president' here equals Erdogan. I wrote "... this are the bodyguards of a president". Do you get it?

What is shocking at least to *me* is that this happened in USA *and* the police didn't arrest the bodyguards. What is shocking to me is that they committed a crime in American territory and were allowed to leave, no consequences.

You punching someone in the street and kicking their heads (even women! WTF!) because what they say doesn't make you happy is not a violation of the First amendment? At very least is assault.

[Gavin_Sons]

I would say it was not a violation od the 1st amendment. Our government did not prevent these people from protesting, a foreign country tried. Anytime you go spout your mouth off in public you take a chance of someone shutting it for you. These guards should be brought to justice. Arrest them and ship them back to Turkeyland. Burn down their embassy and tell them good luck on your own.

[Moonshot_1]

@Moonshot: You just wrote: "This is an asinine conclusion."

I decided to double check in the dictionary to make sure I didn't misunderstand. From the dictionary: as·i·nine: adj, "extremely stupid or foolish".

Is pretty hard to keep the discussion civilized after this but I will try.

The police was there trying to keep both groups from engage. They actually tried to help the people who were down and being kicked by the bodyguards. Watch the video again and you will see that the bodyguards crossed to the other side of the street and started to assault the protesters.

The violation was made by foreign agents from Turkey serving Erdogan in American territory. Is it clear enough?

'A president' here equals Erdogan. I wrote "... this are the bodyguards of a president". Do you get it?

What is shocking at least to *me* is that this happened in USA *and* the police didn't arrest the bodyguards. What is shocking to me is that they committed a crime in American territory and were allowed to leave, no consequences.

You punching someone in the street and kicking their heads (even women! WTF!) because what they say doesn't make you happy is not a violation of the First amendment? At very least is assault.

The First Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

At no time did I see a violation of the 1st amendment. The 1st amendment is a prohibition against the Government. I did not see the Government putting down anyone's right to free speech.

As you JUST WROTE, this happened in the USA. The original report has at least 2 secret service agents involved. When you mention a President, Erdogan does not come to mind. The implied reference was pretty clear since you didn't point to Erdogan at all.

Again, you have no idea what, if any, crimes occurred here. No one does. Did Diplomatic immunity come into play? We see the very start of the mallee, nothing prior to put it into context.
Did the protesters become a security threat? I don't know. We don't see this in a proper context, we don't have an investigative report on the incident, and we just don't know a lot of things about this yet.

So, yes, such a conclusion at this time is asinine.

[Savago]

I will not get in a discussion on semantics, as what is clear (or not) depends on many factors (literacy, education, language, context, etc).
 
From what you just wrote, I assume you are ok with foreign bodyguards coming to USA and wrecking the city and be free to leave? Really? And you call yourself a patriot?

[Willow]

Assault on individuals is a crime.  Unfortunately diplomatic immunity in no prosecutions.  The most that can be done would be to decline the individuals future access to the U.S.A.  The D.C. police department simply avoided wasting a lot of time in the real world for no accomplishment.

[Moonshot_1]

I will not get in a discussion on semantics, as what is clear (or not) depends on many factors (literacy, education, language, context, etc).
 
From what you just wrote, I assume you are ok with foreign bodyguards coming to USA and wrecking the city and be free to leave? Really? And you call yourself a patriot?

I am ok with waiting for an official investigative report before I decide to convict anyone. That would be "innocent till proven guilty in a court of law" Which is Constitutional, by the way. So, yeah, that would make me a Patriot, I guess, believing in the Constitution and all.

[Jess from VA]

If they (guards) have diplomatic immunity.  Probably not.

They can be declared persona non grata and asked (escorted) to the next plane out (with or without immunity).

Since they are Erdogon's personal guards, that will will probably not be done.  Simply speaking, our (US) relations with Turkey is more important than a few punches and kicks.  

Their names will be taken, and Erdogon (or some diplomat) will be told they can't come back.

Some money might change hands, if the assaultees ask for it (medical).

[Gryphon Rider]

I will not get in a discussion on semantics, as what is clear (or not) depends on many factors (literacy, education, language, context, etc).
 
From what you just wrote, I assume you are ok with foreign bodyguards coming to USA and wrecking the city and be free to leave? Really? And you call yourself a patriot?

I've gotta back Moonshot_1 here (except for the "asinine" part).  This has nothing to do with the first amendment, which has to do with the government suppressing free speech.  This is simple assault and battery, committed by a heavy-handed foreign government on US soil (this wasn't on embassy grounds), treating Americans (citizens or residents) the same way they treat their own people.  The distinction is not trivial semantics.

[3fan4life]

If they (guards) have diplomatic immunity.  Probably not.

They can be declared persona non grata and asked (escorted) to the next plane out (with or without immunity).

Since they are Erdogon's personal guards, that will will probably not be done.  Simply speaking, our (US) relations with Turkey is more important than a few punches and kicks.  

Their names will be taken, and Erdogon (or some diplomat) will be told they can't come back.

Some money might change hands, if the assaultees ask for it (medical).

This is the most sound and educated response in this thread.

Of course it's coming  from a man that knows a lot about the Federal Government and Turks, Especially angry ones. 

[Jess from VA]

Thanks Mark. 

I'm angry alright, I want my Spring back.....  I'm not digging the 90's temps already. 

One thing you can count on with the Turks, they are all serious patriots for their country.  Which ever way the wind may be blowing politically, if they sense their country is being insulted, they want to fight.

I have always respected this about them. 

And we need all the friends we can get over there.