question on chain cycles

[cookiedough]

Our 1997 honda magna 750cc has an older chain on it appears to be in good shape, but is making more noise the past few months since owning it in March.  I have had to tighten the chain now twice since March due to stretching getting looser than 1 1/2 inches in up/down movement which should be 1 inch or so.  

I have lubed up the chain and cleaned it yet again today really well but still makes whirling/clicking noises you can easily hear at speeds under say 35 mph in the rear sprocket as the chain goes over the rear sprocket.  rear sprocket appears to be GREAT shape no abnormal curvature or sharp points.  I know the rubber gasket noise suppresser is not on it since is broken that fits inside the groove of that rear sprocket, but from what a Honda dealership said it does no real good on making the noise go away when the chain goes around the rear sprocket.  

Any ideas on a noisy chain that is properly lubed and from what appears to be aligned properly from front to rear sprocket?  Do OLD chains with no kinks or bad links from what I see examining link by link just start making revolution noises going around the rear sprocket nearing the end of their useful life????  

I took it into a local cycle shop today but my luck, the mechanic took off today was going to see what he thought examining it in the parking lot driving it around on the noise which is the chain going around the rear sprocket (everything appears to be cleaned and rotating properly) even on the old chain.  Is a DID chain guessing original chain since 1997 on it with 22K miles on cycle?  right now has about 1 1/4" of slack in chain which have read up on and is fine since an older chain should not be too tight (say under 1 inch) the more slack the better as they age in years.

The replace chain marker on left side swingarm in back says with that replace line is on the up/down arrow meaning is time to replace the chain due to stretch/age.  Guessing I need to bit the bullet and spend 200 bucks on front/rear sprocket and new chain?  One honda shop told me the chain should not make ANY noise going around the rear sprocket and I can for sure hear the chain noise (like a clicking noise) going around the rear sprocket even pushing it in the garage sort of fast or rolling it down the driveway into the street not running, even at low speeds under 35 mph can hear the chain when running if I turn my head to the left looking down at the rear sprocket.  

When I bought it in March,  the chain was badly neglected full of gunk and on the rear sprocket and near 2 inches of slack in it but did not make any noise since I think the gunk on the sprockets and chain maybe filled the chain stretch gap between the links, agree?  I think that is the noise I am hearing since as chain stretches between links due to age,  the chain going around rear sprocket is too far apart making clicking noises, but the rear sprocket shows no signs of tooth wear to me in any of the 40 teeth no sharp points or edges grooved in or curved teeth and all still having a flat spot on top uniform not pointed teeth.

[trout dude]

Honda uses what they call a o-ring chain which uses a chain wax made for that chain. I was told that the regular chain wax with out the additive for the o-rings is not good for the chain and will ware them out faster because the o-rings crack up and fall apart.       

[Alpha Dog]

Pappy is the expert on the Magna.  For me I would not pass go and put on a brand new chain and sprockets, but at least the chain for peace of mind.   D I D is excellent, as is RK.  I went to the local Honda dealer for mine and they carried Bikemaster brand which was made in the Chech Republic.  Ebay when I had my Magna had lots of cheaper deals, all made in China that I would never trust, and if you do the research you would not also.   I also used the Honda Chain wax. 

By the way that Magna is a blast to ride is it not.  If I had room I would still have one.

[Chrisj CMA]

Looks like you answered you're own question. It needs replaced. Magan deserves it

[old2soon]

When you replace put ALL New parts in there-chain and sprockets. RIDE SAFE.

[six2go #152]

I think if it were me I would take some of that money you're saving by shopping insurance and go ahead and get the chain and sprockets that are needed. 

[Hooter]

I was always told to put a new chain on old sprockets is a no no. Let the new parts break in together. If these are original parts, time has taken it's toll on them, along with neglect. Good attempt at trying to bring the old back to life but the parts you are questioning might just be deceased.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I think if it were me I would take some of that money you're saving by shopping insurance and go ahead and get the chain and sprockets that are needed. 

[..]

Take chain off. Hold it out straight.

If it droops more than a couple of inches it's useless.

Replace both sprockets and chain.

[RDKLL]

I am new to chain drive as well, my KTM is chain drive. There is another test and it is for stretch, you will have to check your MOM (motorcycle owner's manual). The inspection involves the distance between a specific number of links, if it exceeds that value then then chain needs to be changed

[Cyclejohn]

 I have had to tighten the chain now twice since March due to stretching getting looser than 1 1/2 inches in up/down movement which should be 1 inch or so.

Chains do not stretch, they wear. The more they wear...the faster they wear.

New chain and sprockets for me if it was my bike and my life.

[Mr Whiskey]

Chain & sprogs
Old sprogs eat new chains.

[cookiedough]

 I have had to tighten the chain now twice since March due to stretching getting looser than 1 1/2 inches in up/down movement which should be 1 inch or so.

Chains do not stretch, they wear. The more they wear...the faster they wear.

New chain and sprockets for me if it was my bike and my life.

I might be wrong, but chains do stretch if you watch youtube videos, that is why they have to keep being tightened in the back.  My DID chain appears to be stretched to the max and my guess is the noise is the gap between links are tad bit too sloppy in the rear sprocket causing the noise being heard up to say 35 mph or so at low speeds.  cycle chain lube does not help the past few days like I thought it would quieting the noisey chain going around rear sprocket. 

We went for long 160 mile ride yesterday and I had my kid on the magna, me on Valk beside him in town speeds, and with the plastic chain cover off the top of the 97 magna, that chain REALLY is loose just driving in town speeds moving up/down about 1 inch or more at times just normal non-shifting.  When he shifts, it slacks and then tightens up again after he gives it some gas.  Some is normal, but that chain appears to have tight spots and loose spots. 

I adjusted the chain to have about 1 1/4 to 1 1/2" slack and do not want to tighten to specs to 1 inch for have heard the tighter you go on an older chain,  the more apt it is to break.  The back wear bar indicator after tightening it now 2xs indicated time to replace chain.

Went to cycle shop Saturday and owners wife after showing her my amazon.com pricing on chains, said will match the X-ring RK chain (96 bucks)  or the JT sprockets chain  (79 bucks) as well as rear sprocket (31 bucks) with front sprocket being 3 bucks higher at 23 bucks.  NOT going with the overpriced DID Xring chain since is 115 bucks.  labor is around 1 hour and they said is cheapest in town at 60 bucks per hour. 

Going to have to order somewhere else the missing rubber ring noise arrester that goes in the groove on the outside of the rear sprocket as well.  210 bucks or so and then should be good to go for another 7 years and 22K miles.  While there, going to have him replace front brake fluid since is pretty dark inside that bubble.  I will ask him as well about front brake pads but previous owner said they were replaced 3 years or so ago but to have that front brake fluid reservoir glass bubble look so dark, it makes me sketchy since brake fluid does not get that dark in 3 years of minimal driving guessing 3000 miles the past 3 years since he never drove it much being a 1997 bought with only 22K miles on it.

[Mr Whiskey]

X-ring RK chain (96 bucks)  or the JT sprockets chain  (79 bucks) as well as rear sprocket (31 bucks) with front sprocket being 3 bucks higher at 23 bucks.

That outta do 'er right there.
All my CB750/4's used to get new chain & sprogs every year
(but I pushed those bikes pretty hard).
Cheap insurance for life & limb (not to mention busted casings)!

[hubcapsc]

I might be wrong, but chains do stretch

I think he was just being pedantic... they certainly get longer!

-Mike

[Cyclejohn]

 

Chains do not stretch, they wear. The more they wear...the faster they wear.

New chain and sprockets for me if it was my bike and my life.

I might be wrong, but chains do stretch if you watch youtube videos,

I might be wrong, but chains do stretch


-Mike

OK, 2 do's and 1 do not. The do's have it.

And Hubcapsc, please refrain from using words I have to Google  .

[Pappy!]

Typically 21,000-24,000 miles, depending on driving habits is about what you can expect out of the sprockets/chains on a Magna.
As others have already said. it is time to replace. Now your question is whether or not you want to go back with the same number of teeth in the front sprocket or go up one..........

I remember giving you the link for the best Magna forum out there. Did you ever go and sign up for it and use it?
http://v4musclebike.com/forums/index.php

[gregk]

If you are not sure what bad sprokets are the look at a new bike at the tips of the teeth and see how the sprokets are at the tip and compare to yours . I'm guessing your teeth are somewhat pointed and show worn out and that you need to replace them.  As far as the chain it is most likely worn out. What ever you do do not buy a cheap chain because if you do you'll be adjusting it all the time and have it worn out in no time. I going to guess here and say your chain is stretched, worn. What happens to cheap chain  is that it will stretch and you can ck it like the manual says. Another way is  to get the back wheel up and  adj the chain then roll the wheel  and ck the tension in a bunch of spots and I'd bet you'll see the chain gets looser and tighter in spots and if so it junk .  Don't  f around and go an buy a cheap chain now, go and buy a gold o ring chain because it'll have a high tensile strength and you'll be amaised that you'll not have to hardly adj the chain much and that  will save $ and time messing with the chain down the road and you'll be a lot happier.

[cookiedough]

Typically 21,000-24,000 miles, depending on driving habits is about what you can expect out of the sprockets/chains on a Magna.
As others have already said. it is time to replace. Now your question is whether or not you want to go back with the same number of teeth in the front sprocket or go up one..........

I remember giving you the link for the best Magna forum out there. Did you ever go and sign up for it and use it?
http://v4musclebike.com/forums/index.php

Yep, signed up and got good info. from them as well.  I like this 530-118 chain on amazon.com but it says it will not fit my magna even though it should.  I called and left return callback with RK chain mfg. to verify it should fit.  Riding the magna to cycle shop today to see if they will match amazon.com pricing on both sprockets and X-ring chain.  most shops want 150-180 for labor but found one local who said 1 hour labor at 60 bucks so going to go in today before they change their mind and get full price quote and see if they can come close to matchign amazon.com pricing.

https://www.amazon.com/RK-Racing-Chain-530XSOZ1-118-Connecting/dp/B000MPS1VS/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1496755795&sr=8-5&keywords=rk+530-118

I am going to go 17T in front sprocket to reduce rpms by 200 and increase mpg by 2-3 as well vs. stock 16T front sprocket, both 40t rear sprocket, all new.  Am sure 16t is in front now being OEM since 1997 with 22K miles, but the bike has plenty of power and would rather see 200 rpm decrease at hwy. speeds and as always 2-3 more mpg is nice as well.  Last time out my kid ran out of gas 2 miles from home around 100 miles before sputtering to a stop to show him how to switch to the .80 reserve tank to get back home. 

[cookiedough]

If you are not sure what bad sprokets are the look at a new bike at the tips of the teeth and see how the sprokets are at the tip and compare to yours . I'm guessing your teeth are somewhat pointed and show worn out and that you need to replace them.  As far as the chain it is most likely worn out. What ever you do do not buy a cheap chain because if you do you'll be adjusting it all the time and have it worn out in no time. I going to guess here and say your chain is stretched, worn. What happens to cheap chain  is that it will stretch and you can ck it like the manual says. Another way is  to get the back wheel up and  adj the chain then roll the wheel  and ck the tension in a bunch of spots and I'd bet you'll see the chain gets looser and tighter in spots and if so it junk .  Don't  f around and go an buy a cheap chain now, go and buy a gold o ring chain because it'll have a high tensile strength and you'll be amaised that you'll not have to hardly adj the chain much and that  will save $ and time messing with the chain down the road and you'll be a lot happier.

rear sprockets looks fine no unevenness or sharp spots on tips all uniform in good shape, but by rotating the chaina round does have stretch areas pushing 2 inches while other areas of chain are 1 1/2 inches tops in freeplay.  wear bar indicators on left rear swingarm also indicates time to replace the chain after 20 years and 22K miles from previous owner. 

leaving at noon to get final pricing and for 60-70 bucks labor well worth it vs. other bigger Honda dealers 150-180 bucks in labor alone.

[cookiedough]

took magna in to 2 cycle shops in nearby town some 40 miles away.  Both said the chain, although 20 years old, could go another 2-3000 miles but not so sure they cared much since they did not even touch the chain much for tightness.  I had it 1 1/4" but even after moving it backwards 3 feet showing them both near 2 inches of slack (not uniform for sure in tightness), both still said driveable for awhile longer much to my surprise.

However, coming home I goosed it more so than going there with chain being quiet upon shifts and yet again, heard horrible clacking/knocking noises at times shifting gears at lower speeds can tell the loose parts of the chain were touching/slapping the frame just a tad. 

So, despite disagreeing with 2 dealers,  going to get the chain and sprockets replaced for 215 bucks total should last another 7 years or 23K miles yet again.  ONLY thing we all agreed upon was both sprockets look like NEW with no uneveness or wear at all on either front/rear sprocket, as much as we could see from under engine on the front sprocket. 

I just do NOT feel like tightening the darn chain every 200-300 miles another 1/4 turn rear swingarm nuts to get it slightly tighter and tighter.  Both dealers agreed it will not snap if you keep it that loose but I feel is too loose for sure being near 2 inches slack in some spots making slapping/knocking noises  at times in lower gears at lower speeds vs. other areas of chain 1 1/4" slack as it should be.