Rear Tire Removal Question

[winger27]

Do I need to loosen up the 4 bolts that secure the diff to the shaft housing for a tire change. Thanks

[Daniel Meyer]

Yes. Loosen them before torquing the axle back down. Tighten them afterwards.

[Gryphon Rider]

I saw Daniel's post when previewing mine, but I've already typed it, so forgive the repetition.

To answer your question:

You do when you put it back together.  After getting the wheel back in place with the axle, the brake caliper mount, and the bushing, and before you tighten the axle nut, loosen those four nuts.  After the axle nut is tight, tighten those nuts.

To answer your unasked questions:

Yes, completely clean out the old moly paste from the splines that connect the wheel to the final drive gearbox (a.k.a. the diff, or the pumpkin) and put fresh paste in.

Yes, replace the O-rings that seal that splined connection.  If you're daring, and the O-rings look good, re-use them.  If the thin, whiteish, plastic spacer (looks like a 2"OD washer) looks good, you can re-use it.  BE SURE to put it back where it belongs.

While you have the rear wheel off, you would be wise to remove the final drive gearbox from the swing arm to clean, inspect, and re-lube the splined joint (with 3% moly grease) between the drive shaft and the final drive gearbox.

[Harryc]

Yes. Loosen them before torquing the axle back down. Tighten them afterwards.

If you are just changing a tire and not servicing the final drive, why would you have to do this? The OP is just changing a tire, so the answer is 'no' unless you intend to service the final drive. Once you loosen those 4 bolts you are committed to the correct sequence to putting the rear end back together again, which Gryphon Rider mentioned along with some good advice on what else to do at that time. If you do not touch those 4 bolts just reinstall the rear wheel with new tire (using the correct sequence and torque values per the Honda Tech manual) and Bob's your Uncle.

[Chrisj CMA]

Yes. Loosen them before torquing the axle back down. Tighten them afterwards.

If you are just changing a tire and not servicing the final drive, why would you have to do this? The OP is just changing a tire, so the answer is 'no' unless you intend to service the final drive. Once you loosen those 4 bolts you are committed to the correct sequence to putting the rear end back together again, which Gryphon Rider mentioned along with some good advice on what else to do at that time. If you do not touch those 4 bolts just reinstall the rear wheel with new tire and Bob's your Uncle.

By the book (Honda manual) you do loosen the four bolts even if you choose to ignore servicing the drive shaft and pinion cup.  It's the correct way to do it.  Obviously you can accomplish the job without loosening the four bolts, but you risk early and accelerated spline wear.

[Daniel Meyer]

Yes. Loosen them before torquing the axle back down. Tighten them afterwards.

If you are just changing a tire and not servicing the final drive, why would you have to do this? The OP is just changing a tire, so the answer is 'no' unless you intend to service the final drive. Once you loosen those 4 bolts you are committed to the correct sequence to putting the rear end back together again, which Gryphon Rider mentioned along with some good advice on what else to do at that time. If you do not touch those 4 bolts just reinstall the rear wheel with new tire and Bob's your Uncle.

You should ALWAYS use the correct sequence.

I show this to folks at Inzane...but there is substaintial rotation available final-drive to swing-arm...when you pull the axle you at least momentarily have 25 pounds of tire/wheel hanging on the pumpkin with no support on the left...there is no positive mechanical alignment at that point...and you stand a chance of getting it out of line...if you do, and don't loosen the bolts/tighten AFTER axle is torqued, you'll chew the drive splines out of it inside of 5000 miles.

This has been an issue since the very first wings and was addressed by honda more explicitly in the past. Today, they just say something like "in order to ease axle insertion, loosen the 4 nuts...."

Anyway, reasonably rare...maybe 1 in 20 times...but it happens enough that the destruction of those splines is like the #3 problem with Valks...

Trust me on this one...but even if ya don't believe me...it literally takes about 2 minutes extra work to do this in the correct sequence (yes, it is listed in the manual, just doesn't explain why).

[Harryc]

Yes. Loosen them before torquing the axle back down. Tighten them afterwards.

If you are just changing a tire and not servicing the final drive, why would you have to do this? The OP is just changing a tire, so the answer is 'no' unless you intend to service the final drive. Once you loosen those 4 bolts you are committed to the correct sequence to putting the rear end back together again, which Gryphon Rider mentioned along with some good advice on what else to do at that time. If you do not touch those 4 bolts just reinstall the rear wheel with new tire and Bob's your Uncle.

You should ALWAYS use the correct sequence.

I show this to folks at Inzane...but there is substaintial rotation available final-drive to swing-arm...when you pull the axle you at least momentarily have 25 pounds of tire/wheel hanging on the pumpkin with no support on the left...there is no positive mechanical alignment at that point...and you stand a chance of getting it out of line...if you do, and don't loosen the bolts/tighten AFTER axle is torqued, you'll chew the drive splines out of it inside of 5000 miles.

This has been an issue since the very first wings and was addressed by honda more explicitly in the past. Today, they just say something like "in order to ease axle insertion, loosen the 4 nuts...."

Anyway, reasonably rare...maybe 1 in 20 times...but it happens enough that the destruction of those splines is like the #3 problem with Valks...

Trust me on this one...but even if ya don't believe me...it literally takes about 2 minutes extra work to do this in the correct sequence (yes, it is listed in the manual, just doesn't explain why).

I'll take another look in the manual, but I had it open last time I did this job and I didn't see this step.

[Chrisj CMA]

Yes. Loosen them before torquing the axle back down. Tighten them afterwards.

If you are just changing a tire and not servicing the final drive, why would you have to do this? The OP is just changing a tire, so the answer is 'no' unless you intend to service the final drive. Once you loosen those 4 bolts you are committed to the correct sequence to putting the rear end back together again, which Gryphon Rider mentioned along with some good advice on what else to do at that time. If you do not touch those 4 bolts just reinstall the rear wheel with new tire and Bob's your Uncle.

You should ALWAYS use the correct sequence.

I show this to folks at Inzane...but there is substaintial rotation available final-drive to swing-arm...when you pull the axle you at least momentarily have 25 pounds of tire/wheel hanging on the pumpkin with no support on the left...there is no positive mechanical alignment at that point...and you stand a chance of getting it out of line...if you do, and don't loosen the bolts/tighten AFTER axle is torqued, you'll chew the drive splines out of it inside of 5000 miles.

This has been an issue since the very first wings and was addressed by honda more explicitly in the past. Today, they just say something like "in order to ease axle insertion, loosen the 4 nuts...."

Anyway, reasonably rare...maybe 1 in 20 times...but it happens enough that the destruction of those splines is like the #3 problem with Valks...

Trust me on this one...but even if ya don't believe me...it literally takes about 2 minutes extra work to do this in the correct sequence (yes, it is listed in the manual, just doesn't explain why).

I'll take another look in the manual, but I had it open last time I did this job and I didn't see this step.

Page 14-9 second paragraph.

[Harryc]

Yes. Loosen them before torquing the axle back down. Tighten them afterwards.

If you are just changing a tire and not servicing the final drive, why would you have to do this? The OP is just changing a tire, so the answer is 'no' unless you intend to service the final drive. Once you loosen those 4 bolts you are committed to the correct sequence to putting the rear end back together again, which Gryphon Rider mentioned along with some good advice on what else to do at that time. If you do not touch those 4 bolts just reinstall the rear wheel with new tire and Bob's your Uncle.

You should ALWAYS use the correct sequence.

I show this to folks at Inzane...but there is substaintial rotation available final-drive to swing-arm...when you pull the axle you at least momentarily have 25 pounds of tire/wheel hanging on the pumpkin with no support on the left...there is no positive mechanical alignment at that point...and you stand a chance of getting it out of line...if you do, and don't loosen the bolts/tighten AFTER axle is torqued, you'll chew the drive splines out of it inside of 5000 miles.

This has been an issue since the very first wings and was addressed by honda more explicitly in the past. Today, they just say something like "in order to ease axle insertion, loosen the 4 nuts...."

Anyway, reasonably rare...maybe 1 in 20 times...but it happens enough that the destruction of those splines is like the #3 problem with Valks...

Trust me on this one...but even if ya don't believe me...it literally takes about 2 minutes extra work to do this in the correct sequence (yes, it is listed in the manual, just doesn't explain why).

I'll take another look in the manual, but I had it open last time I did this job and I didn't see this step.

Page 14-9 second paragraph.

OK i see it, and I stand corrected. Since I didn't do this and it's the last step, logic says since my axle nut is already torqued, all I'd have to do is loosen and re-torque those (4) bolts at this point. Am I correct? I guess to be correct per the manual I'd loosen the axle nut and these (4) bolts, torque the axle nut then those 4.

[Chrisj CMA]

Yes. Loosen them before torquing the axle back down. Tighten them afterwards.

If you are just changing a tire and not servicing the final drive, why would you have to do this? The OP is just changing a tire, so the answer is 'no' unless you intend to service the final drive. Once you loosen those 4 bolts you are committed to the correct sequence to putting the rear end back together again, which Gryphon Rider mentioned along with some good advice on what else to do at that time. If you do not touch those 4 bolts just reinstall the rear wheel with new tire and Bob's your Uncle.

You should ALWAYS use the correct sequence.

I show this to folks at Inzane...but there is substaintial rotation available final-drive to swing-arm...when you pull the axle you at least momentarily have 25 pounds of tire/wheel hanging on the pumpkin with no support on the left...there is no positive mechanical alignment at that point...and you stand a chance of getting it out of line...if you do, and don't loosen the bolts/tighten AFTER axle is torqued, you'll chew the drive splines out of it inside of 5000 miles.

This has been an issue since the very first wings and was addressed by honda more explicitly in the past. Today, they just say something like "in order to ease axle insertion, loosen the 4 nuts...."

Anyway, reasonably rare...maybe 1 in 20 times...but it happens enough that the destruction of those splines is like the #3 problem with Valks...

Trust me on this one...but even if ya don't believe me...it literally takes about 2 minutes extra work to do this in the correct sequence (yes, it is listed in the manual, just doesn't explain why).

I'll take another look in the manual, but I had it open last time I did this job and I didn't see this step.

Page 14-9 second paragraph.

OK i see it, and I stand corrected. Since I didn't do this and it's the last step, logic says since my axle nut is already torqued, all I'd have to do is loosen and re-torque those (4) bolts at this point. Am I correct? I guess to be correct per the manual I'd loosen the axle nut and these (4) bolts, torque the axle nut then those 4.

Yes, the latter and additionally I would remove the right side shock.  Plus it goes without saying the ass end has to be off the gound for this procedure

[Harryc]

Yes. Loosen them before torquing the axle back down. Tighten them afterwards.

If you are just changing a tire and not servicing the final drive, why would you have to do this? The OP is just changing a tire, so the answer is 'no' unless you intend to service the final drive. Once you loosen those 4 bolts you are committed to the correct sequence to putting the rear end back together again, which Gryphon Rider mentioned along with some good advice on what else to do at that time. If you do not touch those 4 bolts just reinstall the rear wheel with new tire and Bob's your Uncle.

You should ALWAYS use the correct sequence.

I show this to folks at Inzane...but there is substaintial rotation available final-drive to swing-arm...when you pull the axle you at least momentarily have 25 pounds of tire/wheel hanging on the pumpkin with no support on the left...there is no positive mechanical alignment at that point...and you stand a chance of getting it out of line...if you do, and don't loosen the bolts/tighten AFTER axle is torqued, you'll chew the drive splines out of it inside of 5000 miles.

This has been an issue since the very first wings and was addressed by honda more explicitly in the past. Today, they just say something like "in order to ease axle insertion, loosen the 4 nuts...."

Anyway, reasonably rare...maybe 1 in 20 times...but it happens enough that the destruction of those splines is like the #3 problem with Valks...

Trust me on this one...but even if ya don't believe me...it literally takes about 2 minutes extra work to do this in the correct sequence (yes, it is listed in the manual, just doesn't explain why).

I'll take another look in the manual, but I had it open last time I did this job and I didn't see this step.

Page 14-9 second paragraph.

OK i see it, and I stand corrected. Since I didn't do this and it's the last step, logic says since my axle nut is already torqued, all I'd have to do is loosen and re-torque those (4) bolts at this point. Am I correct? I guess to be correct per the manual I'd loosen the axle nut and these (4) bolts, torque the axle nut then those 4.

Yes, the latter and addionaly I would remove the right side shock.  Plus it goes without saying the ass end has to be off the gound for this procedure

Thanks, yeah I see what I am getting into. Bags come off, right side shock, on a lift, on and on. Oh well, live and learn. Thanks guys.

[Harryc]

You guys don't own Tourers do ya. Lol. To even get the rear end to the point where the axle nut is loose as are the (4) drive bolts, and the rear end is in the air without the tire touching ... you might as well change the tire at that point. The exhaust mount bolts on both sides are in the way, both shocks have to come off, etc. I forgot how much fun this is ...

[Chrisj CMA]

You guys don't own Tourers do ya. Lol. To even get the rear end to the point where the axle nut is loose as are the (4) drive bolts, and the rear end is in the air without the tire touching ... you might as well change the tire at that point. The exhaust mount bolts on both sides are in the way, both shocks have to come off, etc. I forgot how much fun this is ...

I have hard bags on both of my standards and I think it's fun working on them. After removal of shocks, RAISE the swing arm. That way you don't have to mess with the exhaust

[Harryc]

I have hard bags on both of my standards and I think it's fun working on them. After removal of shocks, RAISE the swing arm. That way you don't have to mess with the exhaust

OK, I think I am about to learn a new trick. How would you go about doing that and still keep the tire off the ground?. Ratchet straps? Wouldn't that possibly miss-align the swing arm? I'd have thought free floating would be optimal for the adjustment?

[Chrisj CMA]

I have hard bags on both of my standards and I think it's fun working on them. After removal of shocks, RAISE the swing arm. That way you don't have to mess with the exhaust

OK, I think I am about to learn a new trick. How would you go about doing that and still keep the tire off the ground?. Ratchet straps? Wouldn't that possibly miss-align the swing arm? I'd have thought free floating would be optimal for the adjustment?

I made a tool that acts like a very short shock. Just use that rachet strap from the left lower shock mount to the sissy bar. The angle of the swing arm has nothing to do with alignment of the wheel and pumpkin. Once the axle nut is above the exhaust you should be able to do what you have to do

[Harryc]

I have hard bags on both of my standards and I think it's fun working on them. After removal of shocks, RAISE the swing arm. That way you don't have to mess with the exhaust

OK, I think I am about to learn a new trick. How would you go about doing that and still keep the tire off the ground?. Ratchet straps? Wouldn't that possibly miss-align the swing arm? I'd have thought free floating would be optimal for the adjustment?

I made a tool that acts like a very short shock. Just use that rachet strap from the left lower shock mount to the sissy bar. The angle of the swing arm has nothing to do with alignment of the wheel and pumpkin. Once the axle nut is above the exhaust you should be able to do what you have to do

Great tip, thanks.

[Daniel Meyer]

OK i see it, and I stand corrected. Since I didn't do this and it's the last step, logic says since my axle nut is already torqued, all I'd have to do is loosen and re-torque those (4) bolts at this point. Am I correct? I guess to be correct per the manual I'd loosen the axle nut and these (4) bolts, torque the axle nut then those 4.

My opinion is just loosening/re tightening would be adequate...

[Harryc]

OK i see it, and I stand corrected. Since I didn't do this and it's the last step, logic says since my axle nut is already torqued, all I'd have to do is loosen and re-torque those (4) bolts at this point. Am I correct? I guess to be correct per the manual I'd loosen the axle nut and these (4) bolts, torque the axle nut then those 4.

My opinion is just loosening/re tightening would be adequate...

Well that would have been alot easier. Job is done now.

[Hacked Valk]

Danial Meyer said "Anyway, reasonably rare...maybe 1 in 20 times...but it happens enough that the destruction of those splines is like the #3 problem with Valks..."
As a kinda new owner I would be interested in hearing what the first two most common problems are.

[Chrisj CMA]

Danial Meyer said "Anyway, reasonably rare...maybe 1 in 20 times...but it happens enough that the destruction of those splines is like the #3 problem with Valks..."
As a kinda new owner I would be interested in hearing what the first two most common problems are.

My short list for the most common problems:

Start Switch
Alternator
Left Rear Wheel Bearing
Carbs gummed up

[Jess from VA]

Petcock (holed or torn diaphragm)

OE rubber valve stems (throw them away and get all metal 90* at your first tire changes)

Vacuum lines (in non-desmogged bikes)

[nomoreharleys]

Ok, I gotta ask, how do I know if my bike is desmogged?

[hubcapsc]

Ok, I gotta ask, how do I know if my bike is desmogged?

There's six chrome "intake runners" that hook the carburetors up
to the various top ends... If at most one of the intake runners has
a vacuum line, and the vacuum hook-ups to the others are plugged off,
you're desmogged.

Even a desmogged bike has one vacuum line to intake runner #6, it
is the vacuum for the petcock. Unless someone replaced your vacuum
petcock with a non-vacuum petcock.

-Mike

[Chrisj CMA]

Ok, I gotta ask, how do I know if my bike is desmogged?

Usually the chrome air pipes that plug in at the corners of the head next to the out-board intake runners will be removed as well

[Wayn-O]

I would like to reiterate that you need to replace the o-rings.  I learned the hard way. I replaced a tire and greased/pasted up everything but didn't replace the o-rings and next time I took off the wheel, splines were bone dry, rusty, and had a little bit of wear. 

[nomoreharleys]

So I saw this video and thought I would pass it along because of its relevance to what I am reading here. Would appreciate the experts review/input as I plan on doing a CT as well.  Notice he does not remove the rear fender: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcKTQ_MDIU4

[Houdini]

I never remove the rear fender, it is a total wasted step.  Jack it up and roll the tire out from under the bike.  Done!

[Chrisj CMA]

With Stock pipes you cannot lower the swing arm like that without galling things up because of the mounting bolts.  Also I prefer to have the tire not touching the gound at all when aligning the final drive.

[Daniel Meyer]

As a kinda new owner I would be interested in hearing what the first two most common problems are.

Mmmm...common are the petcock and start switch...

For my list..
#1: Petcock
#2: Pinion cup/shaft joint.

Given expected maintenance on normal other stuff is normally done...those two are the most likely to leave ya standing by the road if ya don't take care of 'em...

[Jess from VA]

That is a decent video by Dag from Norway, but it is pretty abbreviated and does not show all the steps.

Let me refer you to ChrisJ's Powerpoint on rear end maintenance in our Shoptalk section.

Understand that rear tire changes and rear end maintenance should be thought of as one operation.

If you run a 30K car tire, you're going to need to drop it at least once for driveline maintenance.

10k interval is optimal, but if your maintenance is done right, then 15K should be OK.

Me, I always err on lots of grease and moly paste, even if some squirts out on the first few rides (it does).  

It's also the best (easiest) time to change your 80(75)-90 rear end dope in the pumpkin. (synthetic)

Not a bad time to polish that wheel either.

If you are going to a car tire, you need to cut the nut cages out.  This shows it done with the lower fender half removed.  I didn't do that; just pulled the wheel/tire/pumpkin (bike up on jack and jack stand under engine guard) and slid up underneath and cut them off on the bike.
http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2005/08/24/valkyrieRearFenderNutCageMod.html