Millennials are destroying America's most iconic motorcycle brand

[Rams]

Millennials are destroying America's most iconic motorcycle brand
https://www.aol.com/article/finance/2017/07/13/millennials-are-destroying-americas-most-iconic-motorcycle-bran/23028659/

Although this article specifically discusses the supposed impact of this generation on HD, made me wonder if this is also true of other brands, specifically, Honda.
I'm not sure I buy what the article is selling.   Personally, I believe that HD is not offering what Millennials and other (younger) generations want.  That doesn't mean I doubt the entire theory the article offers but, I believe there are other factors in addition to what is discussed.  

Personally, until HD offers something similar to what we have (and I doubt that's ever going to happen), they will continue to lose market share.

[old2soon]

Read the same article and I M H O-B F D. RIDE SAFE.

[dreamaker]

One thing I see when people have a good long term successful business, they think it will last for ever and never hit bottom. These days they don't take it in to consideration and don't prepare for those stumbling times, they leverage themselves out in to a hole.  Sometime they get out, and many cases they don't. People just don't seem to prepare these days.  Nothing last forever!

[DirtyDan]

And destroying a whole lot more than HD

Dan

[Valkpilot]

I like the way the headline implies active malicious intent by millennials when in fact, like everything else, they just can't be bothered with it.

[Moonshot_1]

I do think the initial premise of the article is wrong in regards to the recession having a major role in this. The market is changing. The "Millennials" were brought up on mopeds. Honda has a line of scooters that go up to a 583cc model. This is what the urban market is going to. Probably a lot easier to lane split and maneuver in urban traffic with a  583cc scooter than a full sized motorcycle. Seeing a lot more of these things particularly in urban areas but out here in rural areas as well.
HD has no such line of cycles.
I'm going to guess that all motorcycle manufacturers are seeing a downturn in motorcycle sales but an upturn in scooters and ATV type vehicles. The latter can be licensed for road use in Iowa.

[Savago]

Yet another article blaming millennials for everything.

HD has outdated tech and insanely high prices. Their market are basically baby boomers and highly paid lawyers/doctors that only ride in the weekends when is sunny and not too cold or too warm.

The first group is slowing dying of old age (sad, but true), while the second group is limited in size. The second group doesn't have much of a loyalty to the brand and is willing to jump ship (i.e. going for Indian motorcycles, BMWs, ducatis, electric motorcycles, etc).

Millennials are not buying cars or big bikes because (Guess what!?), they lack good jobs and have crippling debt related to education. The same applies to big houses that will take 20-30 years to pay.

Both spell bad news for the economy (car manufacturers struggling, realstate, etc) and to the boomers that the only financial reserve is that big house that they hope to sell and downscale as the kids have left the nest.

So, no, even though is an easy target, this is not millennials fault.

This is both society's, economy and government fault by giving the raw end of the deal for an entire generation.

ps: before some old fart decides to complain, I'm X generation.

[Gryphon Rider]

Personally, until HD offers something similar to what we have (and I doubt that's ever going to happen), they will continue to lose market share.

If what we have (Valkyries) didn't sell well for Honda, what makes you think something similar would sell well for HD?  Millennials haven't exactly beaten a path to their door to buy V-Rods or Buells.

[therapist]

A local Suzuki dealer has been 100% Quads the past few years. They don't keep one bike in the showroom, but will order one for you. The long time owner said that old bikers are getting sick and/or dying off. She feels young people have no interest in motorcycles, and haven't for some time. My Honda dealer has been overflowing with used bikes (same ones gathering dust for years). He survives from farm equipment and trike conversions. I have a ton of young Facebook friends, through my acting hobby, and only one has ever discussed bikes or posted a picture. It's just not their thing.

[John Schmidt]

(SNIP)......ps: before some old fart decides to complain, I'm X generation.
                                                               ++++++++++++++++++++++
Gen Z, born 1996 to present. Millennials, born 1977 to 1995. Gen X, born 1965 to 1976. Baby Boomers, born 1946 to 1964. (per Google)
                                                              ++++++++++++++++++++++

Dang Savago, guess I must be an old fart. I had to look up the definition of the different age brackets, strange how that never existed when I was younger. Three of my four girls are/were Baby Boomers, the fourth one just over the line as a Gen X. All have nice homes, three of the four families own motorcycles....one has two low mileage Valks. The other two own Hondas, my youngest SIL has an old GL1100 he won't let go of because it still runs great and has "never failed to go for him." He uses it in his business in place of a shop truck when there's no snow on the ground. Funny thing about him, he used to own a Harley and always had problems. Last time it quit he just laid it over and walked away from it, left it where it quit, called a recycler and had them pick it up. Said it was the last HD he'd ever own, bought the 1100 used and has well over 150k on it.

[hubcapsc]

I think Harley just needs to make other cool stuff besides Harleys...
They act like they might buy Ducati...

-Mike

[Jack B]

I was at a used motorcycle dealer today just outside of Milwaukee.
They have about 100 HD's and about 20 other bikes.
He told me the only thing selling is Bagger's he can't kept enough of them in stock.

[cookiedough]

i think a lot of the under 30 crowd want crotch rockets, not much else, or at least around me.

not many under 30 have disposable income to buy anything much over 10K IMO

[Rams]

Personally, until HD offers something similar to what we have (and I doubt that's ever going to happen), they will continue to lose market share.

If what we have (Valkyries) didn't sell well for Honda, what makes you think something similar would sell well for HD?  Millennials haven't exactly beaten a path to their door to buy V-Rods or Buells.

What???    I was speaking of some thing reliable that doesn't shake your eyeteeth loose.....................  

But, you do have a point, I guess I'm speaking of something that might interest me...................  

But, I do believe HD is living on the down hill slope of their business life if, they don't introduce some products that the younger folks want and can afford.

[Serk]

But, I do believe HD is living on the down hill slope of their business life if, they don't introduce some products that the younger folks want and can afford.

Don't they already make more money from their t-shirts and other "lifestyle accessories" than they do selling motorcycles?

[old2soon]

My local Honda dealer has a LOT of those 4 wheel thingys that are Slightly less than a new Pickup. BUT I also reside in a farm/ranch area. They DO however have a lot of lightly used H/Ds on the floor. And having talked to one of the owners they went to 6 days a week stead of 5 but I'm thinkin it ain't quite wurkin like they'd hoped it would. I've been hearin rumors of a 2000 CC G/W but haven't seen nuttin yet. RIDE SAFE.

[solo1]

Maybe part of it is that the HD mystique is no longer working in selling high priced air cooled vtwins.

I also agree that not many of todays' crowd want or can afford the high prices to be 'part of the crowd'.

Maybe also is the fact that Harley's fantastic public relations in getting the Word out, isn't working as good anymore.

However, a local Ft. Wayne TV ad for a funeral home shows a group of bearded Harley riders escorting another bearded Harley rider on a Harley with sidecar to the funeral home. Inside the sidecar is a big picture of yet another bearded one.  I guess the advertising firm couldn't figure out a way to put the deceased in the sidecar.

At any rate, many businesses have bought into the Harley image.

[Hook#3287]

Can't really blame millennials, I wouldn't buy one either.

But then, I wouldn't buy just about any new vehicle out there these days.

Too much.  Too much technology, too much proprietary service required, too much safety crap, too much environmental saving and too much $$$$.

HD has some great bikes and they've kept up with the tech crap.  Good for them, but that probably won't save them.

[Alpha Dog]

I think Savago made a good case.  Therapist suzuki dealer is also correct.  Geezers dying off or can no longer ride due to age.  The young ones have no interest.  They are to wrapped up in their tech phones all day long and somehow find this fun.

Honda wrote a paper back in 2012 ( I think ) about this issue.  Harley and other mfg. have addressed it as well.  I guess nothing stays the same.

[Oss]

At Americade this year got to ride an Indian Chieftain

Damn that was smooth, extremely low center of gravity and loaded with fancy doodads  The Roadmaster came in at just under 1000lbs I think (fairing-hard bags- full gps entertainment system)

Both of them kick the crap out of any HD

Still say to the average joe or jane you ride they ask  Harley?

Perception is part but I agree in the city its all scooters, those electric bike things (nobody wears helmets or obeys the law and cops dont do $hit)  The custodian at Housing Court rides a low something HD and his ignition locked the forks while he was riding last month. Yeah he went down!  That alone is enough to keep any sane person out of an HD dealership  Check their recalls lately

[da prez]

  New bikes , like cars , are rolling computers. There is so much soft ware that the dealers are having problems with keeping them running.  I can't justify the outlay of cash for a bike in the 20 to 30 grand area. A rider came in with a used HD trike that he dropped $42,000 , and said he got a good deal.
  I never paid that much for a car. Yes , Valkaholics are around and will fade away some day , but until I am no longer able to keep it up (?) I will continue to ride.

                                          da prez

[Alpha Dog]

At Americade this year got to ride an Indian Chieftain

Damn that was smooth, extremely low center of gravity and loaded with fancy doodads  The Roadmaster came in at just under 1000lbs I think (fairing-hard bags- full gps entertainment system)

Both of them kick the crap out of any HD

Still say to the average joe or jane you ride they ask  Harley?

Perception is part but I agree in the city its all scooters, those electric bike things (nobody wears helmets or obeys the law and cops dont do $hit)  The custodian at Housing Court rides a low something HD and his ignition locked the forks while he was riding last month. Yeah he went down!  That alone is enough to keep any sane person out of an HD dealership  Check their recalls lately

Well that is interesting Oss.  Sometime this summer I plan to rent a Chieftain from Pony Powersports in Columbus, Oh for a couple of days to see how I like it.  3 weeks ago I picked up a slightly used 2014 Victory Cross Country with a stage one set up and not a mark on the bike off repo for a ridiculously low price.  It is a fantastic bike and give one more room to spread out over the Street Glide from what I understand..  I guess Gig knows.  But I do like the looks of the Indians, just have to try one out. 

[art]

Can't really blame millennials, I wouldn't buy one either.

But then, I wouldn't buy just about any new vehicle out there these days.

Too much.  Too much technology, too much proprietary service required, too much safety crap, too much environmental saving and too much $$$$.

HD has some great bikes and they've kept up with the tech crap.  Good for them, but that probably won't save them.

Never will buy another new car or motorcycle or Harley for the same reasons. Too much junk on them and too expensive. My wife asked me a few days ago if a new car can be bought with manual windows,seats an a simple radio. I said I'm sure the ans.is NO.

[baldo]

I think Harley just needs to make other cool stuff besides Harleys...
They act like they might buy Ducati...

-Mike

They're pretty good at selling T-shirts and do-rags.....

[98 T]

I think that Millennials are not into large  cc displacement bikes...no time or money for long road trips.

HD has begun trying a  500cc and 750 cc bike in the $6700- $8000 range... I guess the sell lots of them over in Asia and Europe and they sure are cheaper than  the  $35,000 baggers.

Also,  I think those few Millennials  who do want two wheels and a motor go for the smaller cc bikes.

As a total  coincidence to this thread,  in the last 3 days I've seen a number of what I'd call mini-bikes riding on some roads.. not  highway speeds but  35- 45 mph roads.   Honda  Ruckus and pocket  type bikes. And mopeds are huge on many large university campuses.

Sort of fits in with their housing habits. As a group,  more of them buy into large apartment complexes built on top of  coffee shops and food stores near urban areas....not way out in the burbs.

I live near Milwaukee (Harley Country) and I fear that  there are fewer and fewer people ready to drop $30,000- $40,000 on new shiny chromed bikes... especially  when there are so many showrooms full of used bikes.

[G-Man]

I live near Milwaukee (Harley Country) and I fear that  there are fewer and fewer people ready to drop $30,000- $40,000 on new shiny chromed bikes... especially  when there are so many showrooms full of used bikes.

The local dealer  is advertising deals on leftover 2016 bikes.

BTW:  Like so many other things these days, the title is meant to divide us.  Old versus young this time. 

[rocketray]

alpha dog the Chieftain is very nice--adequate/great torque ,great interlocked/anti-lock brakes,adjustable wind shield that is priceless w/changing seasons,cruise control,superb styling,smooth,quiet-the ride is superb......

[Alpha Dog]

alpha dog the Chieftain is very nice--adequate/great torque ,great interlocked/anti-lock brakes,adjustable wind shield that is priceless w/changing seasons,cruise control,superb styling,smooth,quiet-the ride is superb......

Thanks for the critique Rocketray.  That is right, your wife owns one.  As long as it is not made by those dastardly Rothchilds.

Just kidding.  I read the book The Creature from Jekyl Island, Secrets of the Federal Reserve, and a few others back in the early 90s.

[98valk]

HOG is almost down 10% right now.

[Gavin_Sons]

I think millennials are more into scooters and saving the earth. I mean, they have had years and years of lies pushed down their throats. Why would they want to buy a machine they don't need to pollute the earth?   

[Ramie]

We've also managed to raise a generation where many are afraid of their shadow and the idea of putting their life in danger by getting on a motorcycle is unthinkable.

[Willow]

Harley Davidson (and other motorcycle manufacturers) is a business.  They produce products to be sold to the market.  As they sell those products they accumulate revenue to pay for the cost of producing those items and to acquire some profit to repay the owners for their investment.

If those products are not purchased it is generally not the fault of the market as it "destroys" the business.  It is the fault of the business that has failed to properly evaluate the market and thus produced products that are not in the market's needs or desires.

The thread is very poorly titled.  The subject and object have been misidentified.

There is some trouble as reported.  This morning the local "news" reported that Harley Davidson in Kansas City is laying off 183 employees.       

[MP]

But, I do believe HD is living on the down hill slope of their business life if, they don't introduce some products that the younger folks want and can afford.

Don't they already make more money from their t-shirts and other "lifestyle accessories" than they do selling motorcycles?

Just read about that.  Article showed HD profits on various lines.  It said this catagory was less than 5% of total sales. I was surprised.

[Safety Steve]

To me the HD Streets the 500 cc and 750 cc are ugly motocycles what they need to do is make a duel sport bike, with a 650 cc water cold motor, something like naked hooligan bike, that is the style of bike that I think would draw younger people in...

[Rams]

The thread is very poorly titled.  The subject and object have been misidentified.
      

This thread title is precisely what the article was titled.   If the article was very poorly titled then, maybe a better headline should have been developed.   It is, what it is.........  

Please advise on how you would have titled the thread.................

[Gryphon Rider]

The thread is very poorly titled.  The subject and object have been misidentified.
      

This thread title is precisely what the article was titled.   If the article was very poorly titled then, maybe a better headline should have been developed.   It is, what it is.........  

Please advise on how you would have titled the thread.................

Oooo... I know... How about:

Article with misleading clickbait headline, "Millennials are destroying America's most iconic motorcycle brand" that is actually about how HD is failing to convince sensibly thrifty millenials to buy $30,000 motorcycles

Would that fit in the subject line?

Rams, perhaps it's preferable to have a subject line similar to the ones we get on the tech board, that are highly accurate, but really tell us little about the posting, such as, "Forks", or better yet, "Question".  You could have accurately used the subject line, "Article".  

[Valkpilot]

Young people in general do not buy the kind of bikes that HD typically sells -- or that we ride, for that matter.  What do you suppose the average age of VRCC forum member is?

I suspect that, as they age, Millennials will start to buy more motorcycles, but for the moment they don't have the expendable income nor the motivation.  (Neither did many of us.)  If manufacturers like HD and Indian can tap into some retro nostalgia movement at the right time, they'll sell to Millennials then.

All manufacturers, but HD in particular, rode the wave of aging Baby Boomers as they passed through middle age.  This was a huge demographic and following generations will not generate the same swell of sales, but I suspect those waves will exist nonetheless.

The mistake may have been, as often happens with public companies, convincing themselves and shareholders that the waves never crest and fall.

[Rams]

The thread is very poorly titled.  The subject and object have been misidentified.
      

This thread title is precisely what the article was titled.   If the article was very poorly titled then, maybe a better headline should have been developed.   It is, what it is.........  

Please advise on how you would have titled the thread.................

Oooo... I know... How about:

Article with misleading clickbait headline, "Millennials are destroying America's most iconic motorcycle brand" that is actually about how HD is failing to convince sensibly thrifty millenials to buy $30,000 motorcycles

Would that fit in the subject line?

Rams, perhaps it's preferable to have a subject line similar to the ones we get on the tech board, that are highly accurate, but really tell us little about the posting, such as, "Forks", or better yet, "Question".  You could have accurately used the subject line, "Article".  

The question was addressed to Willow but your opinion is noted.
I believe I posted exactly what I intended to say.   You do it your way, I'll take my own path.