Valkyrie 1520 Engine built by one technician....

[Strider]

A couple of weeks ago, I rode over to one of the two Honda shops in town to look at helmets and check out the bikes on the show room floor.  Nothing interested me, but the young lad working there walked up and complimented me on my Valkyrie and we started talking - nice kid.  He loved the old Valkyries.

Anyway, during the conversation, he said that each Honda Valkyrie 1520 engine was assembled and tested from start to finish by only one technician at Honda (not that all the engines were done by one guy - but each individual engine was done by one individual technician - from start to finish).  He said that is one of the reasons for tolerances and dependability, etc - that Honda (or Joe Boyd) or whoever wanted it done this way to increase the pride of technical ownership of the final product.  That if an engine failed inspections, it was a "losing face" issue with the technician that built it and a "pride" when the engine came out of assembly as "perfect".  He may have said the entire bike, but I think he said it was the engine.

I had never heard that before.  Don't know if it true but it sounded neat.  Anyone ever hear of that before?

[RDKLL]

That is pretty neat and entirely believable because to engineer the tolerances required for a 600K mile engine with regular maintenance and occasional engine accessory replacement  would be prohibitively expensive. Putting the pride of craftsmanship would be another way to achieve that.

[Willow]

Highly unlikely.  Assembly lines are the way manufacturers make the cost reasonable.  Surely Honda didn't have hundreds of their engineers working the assembly line?

There are manufactures that may utilize a process like that but their numbers are small and their prices are very, very high by comparison.

[Gavin_Sons]

Didn't some people go on the Honda plant tour when Inzane was in Zanesville? They should be able to tell us. I highly doubt that this is true also.

[John Schmidt]

Didn't some people go on the Honda plant tour when Inzane was in Zanesville? They should be able to tell us. I highly doubt that this is true also.

Yes, I went on the plant tour once, a real eye opener for sure. The engine issue mentioned was never brought up, I just saw a completed engine being mounted in the frame so it never dawned on me to ask the "one technician" question. I guess it's possible but as Willow said....doubtful due to cost. I learned a lot from the various techs I talked to, a couple things came to mind such as Wing riders with reverse using it as a parking brake. A big NO-NO, eventually causing switch problems among other issues. Another(my pet peeve) using the clutch switch all the time to start the bike instead of putting it in neutral. Also not the main purpose of its existence and will eventually give trouble. They did emphasize the method of tightening down the final drive 4 nuts last after torquing the axle, we talked about a number of other things.....I brought up the goofy turn signal circuit used by Honda. Most of them didn't like it either but the cost of redesign and re-configuring production was considered prohibitive, especially in view of the thousands of bikes already on the road with the current circuitry. To just watch how fast they put a Valk together was amazing, wish they still had that plant in Ohio 'cuz I'd love to take another tour.

[Reb]

Highly unlikely.  Assembly lines are the way manufacturers make the cost reasonable.  Surely Honda didn't have hundreds of their engineers working the assembly line?

There are manufactures that may utilize a process like that but their numbers are small and their prices are very, very high by comparison.

Not that Deere and Honda are in the same when it comes to product delivery, all companies have different manufacturing methods. To ensure quality, a similar process is performed on certain Deere product lines.

As a design engineer, I doubt Joe Boyd or any Honda design engineer had much say in the manufacturing process of the Valkyrie. They can provide insight on assembly process of components sub-assemblies, etc. from a design perspective. Most assembly line setups are performed by a team of Manufacturing engineers.

Engine assembly would account for a sub-assembly of the full motorcycle. Where a separate assembly process takes place en route to the main line. I'm sure the engine assembly process was set up and is overseen by a Manufacturing engineer(s), who manages several technicians who oversea the assembly and assemblers process for quality control.

Terminology and definition of the term "technician" in a manufacturing environment can have several different meanings from a chain of command perspective. Typically technician is a senior assembler who has a somewhat supervisor roll on a specific area of an assembly line. It is not un-common depending on the complexity of the product being manufactured to have several technicians overseeing the assembly line or area of assembly.

I doubt each engine is "built" by a single technician or assembler, but every engine could be overseen by a specific technician, if that makes any sense.

That's just my opinion though, comparing to garden tractors and feller buncher assembly  

[MarkT]

I also toured the plant in 2001, during the first (or 2nd) Inzane.  Very impressive, all workers in white spotless jumpsuits and a floor you could eat off of. On that day no Valks on the line - they were assembling Gold Wings, Shadows, and something else. They would change the marque every 5 or so bikes, I understood to avoid boredom and repetitive joint injury. It was remarkable how expert and efficient the assemblers were. I didn't see any sub-assembly assembling.  This was the final assembly line, and I understood all the sub-assemblies came from elsewhere.  That factory was changed to assembling cars, later.

[Reb]

I also toured the plant in 2001, during the first (or 2nd) Inzane.  Very impressive, all workers in white spotless jumpsuits and a floor you could eat off of. On that day no Valks on the line - they were assembling Gold Wings, Shadows, and something else. They would change the marque every 5 or so bikes, I understood to avoid boredom and repetitive joint injury. It was remarkable how expert and efficient the assemblers were. I didn't see any sub-assembly assembling.  This was the final assembly line, and I understood all the sub-assemblies came from elsewhere.  That factory was changed to assembling cars, later.

Interesting, I wonder if the engines are assembled in a different factory (which is not uncommon), or just a completely different area away from the main line.

[Strider]

The guy at the dealership was talking like the engines were assembled in Japan.  At least that was what I gathered from him......Don't know - that may have just been an assumption from me - but some of the comments about a technician "losing face" based on quality, it sounded like far East culture - so maybe I just assumed Japan.  Anyway, it was interesting if true.

UPDATE - I was reading on Wikipedia that in the 80's, the 1100 engine was still being made in Japan.  From them:

"Gold Wings would be built at a rate of 150 units a day for the years 1981-1983. Engines were still being built in Japan, but Honda began to market the machine as being made in America."

[Serk]

The guy at the dealership was talking like the engines were assembled in Japan.  At least that was what I gathered from him......Don't know - that may have just been an assumption from me - but some of the comments about a technician "losing face" based on quality, it sounded like far East culture - so maybe I just assumed Japan.  Anyway, it was interesting if true.

Hmmm... the engine block itself, on my '98 at least, is stamped "MADE IN USA"...

(At least I think it's on the engine)

[Reb]

The guy at the dealership was talking like the engines were assembled in Japan.  At least that was what I gathered from him......Don't know - that may have just been an assumption from me - but some of the comments about a technician "losing face" based on quality, it sounded like far East culture - so maybe I just assumed Japan.  Anyway, it was interesting if true.

Hmmm... the engine block itself, on my '98 at least, is stamped "MADE IN USA"...

(At least I think it's on the engine)

They did that up to a specific year I think, as well as the "MADE IN USA" on the back of the passenger OEM seat. At some point it ended, maybe in 1999? Some law suits with the Made in USA brand occurred between Honda and Harley if I remember correctly.

[MAD6Gun]

If I remember correctly. The Valk engines were built in another plant nearby in Marysville.  I have toured the plant a couple of times. Very cool experience...

[RP#62]

The engines were built at the Anna Ohio plant and sent to the Marysville plant for final assembly.  As John noted, it was a standard type assembly line at the Marysville plant with several folks involved.  I was never able to get tour of the Anna plant, so I don't know how they do the engine assembly.

-RP

[Jess from VA]

I don't know either, but it is my observation that for perfection of build of motor vehicles, an assembly line will always produce a superior quality to a one-man-one-engine build.  Regardless of how mind numbing recurrent work may be to the worker, he becomes a master of his small part of the build.

I might prefer my 1911A1 to be built by one master gunsmith.... but not my motor vehicles. The gunsmith can have every part for the build and every tool right at his fingertips.  Not so for an engine or whole vehicle assembly.

I grew up south of Detroit, where we hoped we didn't end up with a car built on Monday (hungover) or Friday (tired).

[Misfit]

The motors were built outside of Marysville in a plant that built accord motors half of the day and our motors the other half. 

[scooperhsd]

I grew up south of Detroit, where we hoped we didn't end up with a car built on Monday (hungover) or Friday (tired).

That one got out to Kansas, where I grew up....

Mom and Dad had bought a 1972 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser station wagon, and I SWEAR this was definately a Monday car - EVERYTHING in it rattled - several times Mom went round and round with the Service manager - even told him that if he couldn't get the rattles out - he could keep the damn thing !!!

SM actually kept it a week, driving it home at night and bringing it back for more rattles to fix. Mom FINALLY got her car quiet like she wanted, as well as an apology from the SM .

[98valk]

friend of mine has a Nissan GT-R, that engine is built by one person and has a plaque with his signature on it. This is 100k car when new. The GL1500 engines were assembly line engines as already mentioned beginning in 1988.

[Hooter]

"Lemons" were usually referred to as a Monday or Friday vehicle.

[Savago]

There is one thing I don't quite understand: where are the people who built our bikes?

Since this is the primary forum for Valkyries, I would expect that someone that once worked in the Honda factory would eventually join and share some stories.

I mean, are they all retired or just too old to care? Or were they all Japanese (and went back to the rising sun home)?

I wonder if the employees were forced to sign some kind of NDA to never tell how the magic was done?
:-)

[RP#62]

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.3760432,-84.1921061,1089m/data=!3m1!1e3

-RP

[Jess Tolbirt]

I have the brochure from honda about the one millionth bike to roll off of the assembly line and in it they said they pulled every 100th engine off the line and ran it at red line for one week, if anything happened to it they would pull every engine from the last one that passed and check everything in it untill they found out what happened...i wonder if i ran my harley at red line how long it would last? i am betting hours instead of days LOL

[Misfit]

Jess I believe it was one motor per day that they pulled from the line (if they built 100 per day you are correct). Then they would run it wide open for 24 hours. Could you post a copy of that brochure? I think you posted a copy of it several years back but I can't find it now. Thanks. 

[MAD6Gun]

I have the brochure from honda about the one millionth bike to roll off of the assembly line and in it they said they pulled every 100th engine off the line and ran it at red line for one week, if anything happened to it they would pull every engine from the last one that passed and check everything in it untill they found out what happened...i wonder if i ran my harley at red line how long it would last? i am betting hours instead of days LOL

 Years ago a local Harley dealer would have a BIG party for all of their customers. As a joke they would get a Asian bike and pin the throttle wide open until it blew up. One year I heard they got ahold of a 4 cylinder Goldwing. Held the engine wide open and hung it from a crane. It just wouldnt stop. It wasnt until they drained the coolant and oil that if finally stopped.

[Strider]

Just read online that a Goldwing was the 300 millionth motorcycle built by Honda (in 2014).  The population of the USA is only 323 million .....that blows my mind.  That is a lot of dependable motorcycles.  That is almost a Honda motorcycle per person that could have been owned.  Well, I have owned 8 of them myself (built prior to 2014). 

[Alpha Dog]

The engines were built at the Anna Ohio plant and sent to the Marysville plant for final assembly.  As John noted, it was a standard type assembly line at the Marysville plant with several folks involved.  I was never able to get tour of the Anna plant, so I don't know how they do the engine assembly.

-RP

That makes sense as the Honda auto engines are made in Anna.

[Alpha Dog]

Didn't some people go on the Honda plant tour when Inzane was in Zanesville? They should be able to tell us. I highly doubt that this is true also.

Yes, I went on the plant tour once, a real eye opener for sure. The engine issue mentioned was never brought up, I just saw a completed engine being mounted in the frame so it never dawned on me to ask the "one technician" question. I guess it's possible but as Willow said....doubtful due to cost. I learned a lot from the various techs I talked to, a couple things came to mind such as Wing riders with reverse using it as a parking brake. A big NO-NO, eventually causing switch problems among other issues. Another(my pet peeve) using the clutch switch all the time to start the bike instead of putting it in neutral. Also not the main purpose of its existence and will eventually give trouble. They did emphasize the method of tightening down the final drive 4 nuts last after torquing the axle, we talked about a number of other things.....I brought up the goofy turn signal circuit used by Honda. Most of them didn't like it either but the cost of redesign and re-configuring production was considered prohibitive, especially in view of the thousands of bikes already on the road with the current circuitry. To just watch how fast they put a Valk together was amazing, wish they still had that plant in Ohio 'cuz I'd love to take another tour.

Plant is still there John, I was there yesterday, but doubt you would want a tour.  Now a quick turnover warehousing facility for the auto plant and a few special projects.  Since a Valk rider I met last week said the new Goldwing was going to be made in the U.S. ( which I doubt highly and hope to be wrong ) I asked an old timer from the motorcycle production if it was going to be built at the old plant, although I already new the answer by just looking around.

[OnaWingandaPrayer]

Just read online that a Goldwing was the 300 millionth motorcycle built by Honda (in 2014).  The population of the USA is only 323 million .....that blows my mind.  That is a lot of dependable motorcycles.  That is almost a Honda motorcycle per person that could have been owned.  Well, I have owned 8 of them myself (built prior to 2014). 

300 million is a lot of motorcycles. I would not be surprised if more than half those bikes were/are Honda Cubs, little 50cc bikes.

[Jess Tolbirt]

Jess I believe it was one motor per day that they pulled from the line (if they built 100 per day you are correct). Then they would run it wide open for 24 hours. Could you post a copy of that brochure? I think you posted a copy of it several years back but I can't find it now. Thanks. 

yea, i will have to find it tho..bear with me