Texas shooting

[Gryphon Rider]

I think FL has it right. And at least here the bottom line is, you have to be in fear of your life. If you are genuinely and verifiably afraid you may be killed, draw, shoot and surrender to law enforcement. If you weren't being threatened at the time of the shooting it doesn't matter how bad the bad guy was, some sleazy lawyer is going to try to ruin your life.

If you have Netflix, the documentary, The Armor of Light, might be of interest as it speaks to the Florida law you mention.

[Patrick]

It also now appears the POS lied on his application, what a shock that is !

But, had the other agencies done their job, that would/should have been caught.


Its also recently reported that one of those that shot at and/or chased the POS was an NRA certified instructor. I'm trying to find out if thats true. If it turns out to be true it'll certainly drive some folks crazy.

[The emperor has no clothes]

It also now appears the POS lied on his application, what a shock that is !

But, had the other agencies done their job, that would/should have been caught.


Its also recently reported that one of those that shot at and/or chased the POS was an NRA certified instructor. I'm trying to find out if thats true. If it turns out to be true it'll certainly drive some folks crazy.

I believe it is true. Why do you think it will drive some crazy ?

[Psychotic Bovine]

It also now appears the POS lied on his application, what a shock that is !

But, had the other agencies done their job, that would/should have been caught.


Its also recently reported that one of those that shot at and/or chased the POS was an NRA certified instructor. I'm trying to find out if thats true. If it turns out to be true it'll certainly drive some folks crazy.

I believe it is true. Why do you think it will drive some crazy ?

It's true. And the fact that most news outlets are not reporting it should be your answer.  An NRA with an AR-15 member taking out a bad guy who is committing mass murder doesn't jive with the media's narrative that all NRA members are gun-toting criminals.  Just look at the backlash from all of these no-nothing "celebs".  I swear the catch phrase for this week is "blood on the hands of the NRA members".

[MP]

It also now appears the POS lied on his application, what a shock that is !

But, had the other agencies done their job, that would/should have been caught.


Its also recently reported that one of those that shot at and/or chased the POS was an NRA certified instructor. I'm trying to find out if thats true. If it turns out to be true it'll certainly drive some folks crazy.

I believe it is true. Why do you think it will drive some crazy ?

Because the antis story is the NRA is bad, and there are no self defense reasons for an AR.
Both proven wrong.

[Alpha Dog]

It also now appears the POS lied on his application, what a shock that is !

But, had the other agencies done their job, that would/should have been caught.


Its also recently reported that one of those that shot at and/or chased the POS was an NRA certified instructor. I'm trying to find out if thats true. If it turns out to be true it'll certainly drive some folks crazy.

I believe it is true. Why do you think it will drive some crazy ?

It's true. And the fact that most news outlets are not reporting it should be your answer.  An NRA with an AR-15 member taking out a bad guy who is committing mass murder doesn't jive with the media's narrative that all NRA members are gun-toting criminals.  Just look at the backlash from all of these no-nothing "celebs".  I swear the catch phrase for this week is "blood on the hands of the NRA members".

And yet no NRA member has been involved in a mass shooting.  So said Rush Limbaugh yesterday.  Except to end one of course should his statement be correct.

[specialdose]

but, since you didn't get it the 1,000 times we explained it, I will explain it again.

1.  Firearms in the US are used nearly 2 million times to protect life and property
2.  This is far more than they are used in illegal killing.  If you discount suicides (which will always happen, look at japan), and police justified shootings, accidents, and self defense, you are left with 6,000 or so murders by firearm a year.  
3.  Knives are deadly.  not as deadly as firearms, which have 18% fatal wounds, 4 % for knives.  But it's nearly impossible to quantify for obvious reasons. (hint:  it's intent!)
4.  The top 3 biggest mass murders in the US did not use firearms.
5.  Yes, firearms from the US do make it into Canada.  If they didn't come from the US they would come from somewhere else.  
6. Jamaica has the highest murder rate in the world, they are an island.  Do the guns just drop from the sky?  See #5.
7. Jamaica has a near total ban on firearms (or very difficult to get a permit to own, check it out).
8. Mexico has a higher crime rate than the US, and has strict gun control.
9. Obama said that Indiana is the reason for all of the murders in Chicago because we follow the Constitution.  Why doesn't Indiana have this same crime rate?
10. If the guns are getting into Canada from US easily (as others have noted), why do they have a lower crime rate?
11. Why do the cities with the strictest gun control in the US have the highest murder rates?
12. What part of "shall not infringe" do people not understand.  We have the right to own firearms.  Period.  Worry about your own country.  Secure your borders.

There are your answers.  

Crime happens.  It's a very complicated reason why it happens; far more complicated than can be explained by "banning all guns that look evil".

     



       This may have been posted before but if so it needs to be again for some of the nay sayers that do not believe some of the stats in this post.    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE     For those of us on this forum who believe Bill Whittle,s research.

[Chrisj CMA]

I think FL has it right. And at least here the bottom line is, you have to be in fear of your life. If you are genuinely and verifiably afraid you may be killed, draw, shoot and surrender to law enforcement. If you weren't being threatened at the time of the shooting it doesn't matter how bad the bad guy was, some sleazy lawyer is going to try to ruin your life.

If you have Netflix, the documentary, The Armor of Light, might be of interest as it speaks to the Florida law you mention.

I do not have Netflix.  I did read the description of the film.  

Let me just say the FL stand your ground law is exactly what a responsible law abiding gun owner needs. However, I agree for someone not so disciplined and maybe out to be a hero, this law might seem to that person as a license to kill.  It is not that.  

I wish lawyers would get better at applying the stand your ground law intead of freaking out over few and far between glitches.

Bottom line it's designed to protect you if you stand up to an intruder trying to hurt you or your family.  There is no moral dilema about owning guns and or using them to protect yourself if you are an honorable person sincerely defending yourself or someone else from likely death or serious injury.  If you are anything else you should not get protection from this law.

I believe the disconnect outsiders have with America's stance on guns is that we believe something that many others don't.  We believe the right to defend ourselves even with guns if necessary is a right given to all men from God not by the second amendment, not by state laws.  Pro gun amendments and laws simply protect these God given rights from ungodly people that may try to interfere with the liberty and pursuit of happiness of others.

[MP]

Chicago blames the high murder rate on guns coming in from Indiana, with more Second Amendment friendly laws.

However, why then does NOT Indianapolis have high murder rates?

No, it is because of Chicagos culture and management over decades.

It has NOTHING to do with guns, or Indianapolis's rate should be high too.

[MP]

I think FL has it right. And at least here the bottom line is, you have to be in fear of your life. If you are genuinely and verifiably afraid you may be killed, draw, shoot and surrender to law enforcement. If you weren't being threatened at the time of the shooting it doesn't matter how bad the bad guy was, some sleazy lawyer is going to try to ruin your life.

If you have Netflix, the documentary, The Armor of Light, might be of interest as it speaks to the Florida law you mention.

I do not have Netflix.  I did read the description of the film.  

Let me just say the FL stand your ground law is exactly what a responsible law abiding gun owner needs. However, I agree for someone not so disciplined and maybe out to be a hero, this law might seem to that person as a license to kill.  It is not that.  

I wish lawyers would get better at applying the stand your ground law intead of freaking out over few and far between glitches.

Bottom line it's designed to protect you if you stand up to an intruder trying to hurt you or your family.  There is no moral dilema about owning guns and or using them to protect yourself if you are an honorable person sincerely defending yourself or someone else from likely death or serious injury.  If you are anything else you should not get protection from this law.

I believe the disconnect outsiders have with America's stance on guns is that we believe something that many others don't.  We believe the right to defend ourselves even with guns if necessary is a right given to all men from God not by the second amendment, not by state laws.  Pro gun amendments and laws simply protect these God given rights from ungodly people that may try to interfere with the liberty and pursuit of happiness of others.

Amen, Chris.

If we do not have a right to defend ourselves, we are pure chattel of the State.

[Oss]

Thank goodness the good citizen NRA member was there to catch the bum before more carnage.



A sword, like a gun, sitting there its just an object

could you imagine if the celebrities were alive in time of swordfighting?  OH OH OH lets ban the sword, pass laws nobody can own a sword (except for my bodyguards of course)  How would that seem?

sure as your morning constitutional, there will be those whose response is always ban this or that, take away some more rights, give more to the government   In places where rights are taken, lives are lost.  Its the first thing a dictator does, remove rights for self defense. Look at russia, china, north korea, germany in 1933 chicago now

And yes I sure wish NY followed a broader castle defense with the killing of an intruder to defend ones family or self with ANY WEAPON IMAGINABLE made lawful.  Heck if all a father or mother has is a baseball bat, or a unregistered pistol by the bed you bet they should be able to go to it to defend their family in their home or wherever they are

Anyway the only certainty is we are all preaching to the choir on one side or the other so
 lets ride !

I

[DirtyDan]

“Any weapon imaginable”...........

My favorite subject

Dan

[G-Man]

Yes, any weapon could have, but this time it was a gun.  We have laws that stop the sale to certain people.  The law failed.  Find out why and make sure it doesn't happen again.

Follow the paper trail to exactly where, and who, broke the chain, allowing the sale of the weapon(s).  Expose the break in the chain and prosecute.  Hold someone accountable for breaking the chain.  Make the person, and entity that the person works for accountable and have to answer for 26 deaths and all the injuries.  

We keep saying that more laws won't work,  Agreed.  But at the very least, we have to enforce the ones already there.

And Chicago's death rate is due to liberal/progressive policies that continue to allow the further breakdown of families and the continued dependency upon gov't for life's necessities.  

[bscrive]

"We believe the right to defend ourselves even with guns if necessary is a right given to all men from God not by the second amendment, not by state laws.  Pro gun amendments and laws simply protect these God given rights from ungodly people that may try to interfere with the liberty and pursuit of happiness of others."

Commandment 13 - Thou shalt not kill.

Sorry Chris, it is not a 'God given' right.  

Even as an atheist, this is pretty clear to me.  Do not kill.  I don't see any caveat with this commandment.

I know you will try to debate this with all other kinds of texts from the bible, but I believe they are superseded by the 13th commandment.

Although, I do believe that if someone tries to harm you, or your family that you should use any means to defend yourself.  If they come into your house then they are fair game to get killed, but I still don't believe that people should carry guns.  Live by the sword, die by the sword is the old saying.

[Chrisj CMA]

"We believe the right to defend ourselves even with guns if necessary is a right given to all men from God not by the second amendment, not by state laws.  Pro gun amendments and laws simply protect these God given rights from ungodly people that may try to interfere with the liberty and pursuit of happiness of others."

Commandment 13 - Thou shalt not kill.

Sorry Chris, it is not a 'God given' right.  

Even as an atheist, this is pretty clear to me.  Do not kill.  I don't see any caveat with this commandment.

I know you will try to debate this with all other kinds of texts from the bible, but I believe they are superseded by the 13th commandment.

Although, I do believe that if someone tries to harm you, or your family that you should use any means to defend yourself.  If they come into your house then they are fair game to get killed, but I still don't believe that people should carry guns.  Live by the sword, die by the sword is the old saying.

Again you prove my point.  Not only are you clueless about America, you are also having a hard time interpreting scripture correctly so, I do apologize, I should not have read this post, since I know you cant help it, you just don't understand.

You see as an atheist (for now) you cannot understand the scriptures because they are "spiritually discerned"  I cannot even argue with you because it would be like trying to teach a dog to ride a motorcycle (see how I got it to be bike related)  lol

I would recommend you not moving to a pro gun state in America any time soon, too many Christians and too many guns you would be uncomfortable.

[Psychotic Bovine]

"We believe the right to defend ourselves even with guns if necessary is a right given to all men from God not by the second amendment, not by state laws.  Pro gun amendments and laws simply protect these God given rights from ungodly people that may try to interfere with the liberty and pursuit of happiness of others."

Commandment 13 - Thou shalt not kill.

Sorry Chris, it is not a 'God given' right.  

Even as an atheist, this is pretty clear to me.  Do not kill.  I don't see any caveat with this commandment.

I know you will try to debate this with all other kinds of texts from the bible, but I believe they are superseded by the 13th commandment.

Although, I do believe that if someone tries to harm you, or your family that you should use any means to defend yourself.  If they come into your house then they are fair game to get killed, but I still don't believe that people should carry guns.  Live by the sword, die by the sword is the old saying.

Actually, the commandment is Thou Shalt not Murder.  This is a HUGE distinction.  Murder is killing without reason.  Killing encompasses self defense.  And also, there are only 10 commandments.  And this one is number 6.
The right to defense is clearly a God given right.
In fact, I asked this question of our pastor one time when he and I were out at the gun range.  He carries a gun and has several sporting rifles and shotguns (read that as scary black guns), and he said God never said that you had to let someone kill you. 

[Gavin_Sons]

"We believe the right to defend ourselves even with guns if necessary is a right given to all men from God not by the second amendment, not by state laws.  Pro gun amendments and laws simply protect these God given rights from ungodly people that may try to interfere with the liberty and pursuit of happiness of others."

Commandment 13 - Thou shalt not kill.

Sorry Chris, it is not a 'God given' right.  

Even as an atheist, this is pretty clear to me.  Do not kill.  I don't see any caveat with this commandment.

I know you will try to debate this with all other kinds of texts from the bible, but I believe they are superseded by the 13th commandment.

Although, I do believe that if someone tries to harm you, or your family that you should use any means to defend yourself.  If they come into your house then they are fair game to get killed, but I still don't believe that people should carry guns.  Live by the sword, die by the sword is the old saying.

Actually, the commandment is Thou Shalt not Murder.  This is a HUGE distinction.  Murder is killing without reason.  Killing encompasses self defense.  And also, there are only 10 commandments.  And this one is number 6.
The right to defense is clearly a God given right.
In fact, I asked this question of our pastor one time when he and I were out at the gun range.  He carries a gun and has several sporting rifles and shotguns (read that as scary black guns), and he said God never said that you had to let someone kill you. 

wow, 13 commandments? First i have heard about that. I'd like to know what 11, 12, and 13 say.       
And he wants to argue religion and guns? 

[Chrisj CMA]

"We believe the right to defend ourselves even with guns if necessary is a right given to all men from God not by the second amendment, not by state laws.  Pro gun amendments and laws simply protect these God given rights from ungodly people that may try to interfere with the liberty and pursuit of happiness of others."

Commandment 13 - Thou shalt not kill.

Sorry Chris, it is not a 'God given' right.  

Even as an atheist, this is pretty clear to me.  Do not kill.  I don't see any caveat with this commandment.

I know you will try to debate this with all other kinds of texts from the bible, but I believe they are superseded by the 13th commandment.

Although, I do believe that if someone tries to harm you, or your family that you should use any means to defend yourself.  If they come into your house then they are fair game to get killed, but I still don't believe that people should carry guns.  Live by the sword, die by the sword is the old saying.

Actually, the commandment is Thou Shalt not Murder.  This is a HUGE distinction.  Murder is killing without reason.  Killing encompasses self defense.  And also, there are only 10 commandments.  And this one is number 6.
The right to defense is clearly a God given right.
In fact, I asked this question of our pastor one time when he and I were out at the gun range.  He carries a gun and has several sporting rifles and shotguns (read that as scary black guns), and he said God never said that you had to let someone kill you. 

wow, 13 commandments? First i have heard about that. I'd like to know what 11, 12, and 13 say.       
And he wants to argue religion and guns? 

Gavin, I think he just wants to argue.

[Gavin_Sons]

"We believe the right to defend ourselves even with guns if necessary is a right given to all men from God not by the second amendment, not by state laws.  Pro gun amendments and laws simply protect these God given rights from ungodly people that may try to interfere with the liberty and pursuit of happiness of others."

Commandment 13 - Thou shalt not kill.

Sorry Chris, it is not a 'God given' right.  

Even as an atheist, this is pretty clear to me.  Do not kill.  I don't see any caveat with this commandment.

I know you will try to debate this with all other kinds of texts from the bible, but I believe they are superseded by the 13th commandment.

Although, I do believe that if someone tries to harm you, or your family that you should use any means to defend yourself.  If they come into your house then they are fair game to get killed, but I still don't believe that people should carry guns.  Live by the sword, die by the sword is the old saying.

Actually, the commandment is Thou Shalt not Murder.  This is a HUGE distinction.  Murder is killing without reason.  Killing encompasses self defense.  And also, there are only 10 commandments.  And this one is number 6.
The right to defense is clearly a God given right.
In fact, I asked this question of our pastor one time when he and I were out at the gun range.  He carries a gun and has several sporting rifles and shotguns (read that as scary black guns), and he said God never said that you had to let someone kill you. 

wow, 13 commandments? First i have heard about that. I'd like to know what 11, 12, and 13 say.       
And he wants to argue religion and guns? 

Gavin, I think he just wants to argue.

I think you are right, on a side note, i carried my XDM 40 to work today instead of my Glock 43.

[Chrisj CMA]

"We believe the right to defend ourselves even with guns if necessary is a right given to all men from God not by the second amendment, not by state laws.  Pro gun amendments and laws simply protect these God given rights from ungodly people that may try to interfere with the liberty and pursuit of happiness of others."

Commandment 13 - Thou shalt not kill.

Sorry Chris, it is not a 'God given' right.  

Even as an atheist, this is pretty clear to me.  Do not kill.  I don't see any caveat with this commandment.

I know you will try to debate this with all other kinds of texts from the bible, but I believe they are superseded by the 13th commandment.

Although, I do believe that if someone tries to harm you, or your family that you should use any means to defend yourself.  If they come into your house then they are fair game to get killed, but I still don't believe that people should carry guns.  Live by the sword, die by the sword is the old saying.

Actually, the commandment is Thou Shalt not Murder.  This is a HUGE distinction.  Murder is killing without reason.  Killing encompasses self defense.  And also, there are only 10 commandments.  And this one is number 6.
The right to defense is clearly a God given right.
In fact, I asked this question of our pastor one time when he and I were out at the gun range.  He carries a gun and has several sporting rifles and shotguns (read that as scary black guns), and he said God never said that you had to let someone kill you.  

wow, 13 commandments? First i have heard about that. I'd like to know what 11, 12, and 13 say.      
And he wants to argue religion and guns?  

Gavin, I think he just wants to argue.

I think you are right, on a side note, i carried my XDM 40 to work today instead of my Glock 43.

Cool, I recently got a better CC belt so my paddle holster for my full size 4".357 revolver fits closer to my body.  Less of a bulge at the back.  I don't mind a little bulge as long as it doesn't look like a gun.  Some people don't understand how we can do that, pray we never need it, but practice and be oh so ready if that time comes!  

[DirtyDan]

Nice call on the 4” 357. My K frame is my favorite gun. It’s Open carry only for me. That gun anyway

Dan

[Chrisj CMA]

Nice call on the 4” 357. My K frame is my favorite gun. It’s Open carry only for me. That gun anyway

Dan

I have  K frame as well (M-19) its my best shooter but its blued.  I like the SS for carry.  The 686 (my primary carry) is an L frame, a little heavier than the K but manageable

[Gavin_Sons]

i'm not sure if many people would like seeing me carry my 44 in my galco kodiak hunter holster.

not me but gives you an idea how big it is and how it is carried.

[¿spoom]

I think FL has it right. And at least here the bottom line is, you have to be in fear of your life. If you are genuinely and verifiably afraid you may be killed, draw, shoot and surrender to law enforcement. If you weren't being threatened at the time of the shooting it doesn't matter how bad the bad guy was, some sleazy lawyer is going to try to ruin your life.

If you have Netflix, the documentary, The Armor of Light, might be of interest as it speaks to the Florida law you mention.

I do not have Netflix.  I did read the description of the film.  

Let me just say the FL stand your ground law is exactly what a responsible law abiding gun owner needs. However, I agree for someone not so disciplined and maybe out to be a hero, this law might seem to that person as a license to kill.  It is not that.  

I wish lawyers would get better at applying the stand your ground law intead of freaking out over few and far between glitches.

Bottom line it's designed to protect you if you stand up to an intruder trying to hurt you or your family.  There is no moral dilema about owning guns and or using them to protect yourself if you are an honorable person sincerely defending yourself or someone else from likely death or serious injury.  If you are anything else you should not get protection from this law.

I believe the disconnect outsiders have with America's stance on guns is that we believe something that many others don't.  We believe the right to defend ourselves even with guns if necessary is a right given to all men from God not by the second amendment, not by state laws.  Pro gun amendments and laws simply protect these God given rights from ungodly people that may try to interfere with the liberty and pursuit of happiness of others.

While I admire anyone who tries to adhere to Christian principles (and sports a great fairing) I cringe at statements regarding God-given rights when man's laws are being discussed. The US has the right to pass laws that all are supposed to obey, and though the founding fathers were as a group, God fearing/believing, Christian-raised persons, they wouldn't have bothered with a Constitution and later on the Bill of Rights if they wanted religion to be the same as civil law. They could have just tossed a Bible on the table at the first Continental Congress and said, "Here's our laws, everybody sign it and we can get back to our homes". The problem with law based on religion is that people pick their religion, and if necessary, make their gods in their own image. Religion is a personal choice and belief set entered voluntarily and carried with one regardless of one's location on the planet. Civil law is what we're stuck with as a condition of location. As much as a Christian's faith in the 10 Commandments as God's word keeps him from killing for sport or religious beliefs, we have those on the planet who believe just as strongly that you are an infidel and should be squashed like a bug (or at least taxed heavily) if you refuse to convert to Islam when confronted. That's why no civilized nation can allow personal religious beliefs/opinions to be regarded as law. There's not a single Commandment I could possibly disagree with, but that's not a religious statement, just common sense IMHO, and whether in the Bile or not, they all make sense. Since there will always be follows of different religions, we really need civil law to be the rule here, and religion in our homes, without demanding those around us share our beliefs regardless of the law. ISIS, too, believes in not, "hiding their light under a bushel" and the list goes on. Just venting, not meant to be just to you. A recent thread here looked like a commercial for Left Twix vs Right Twix, and a perfect example why even those with shared beliefs can't agree on religion, much less man's laws. Phew, I feel better now  

[Chrisj CMA]

i'm not sure if many people would like seeing me carry my 44 in my galco kodiak hunter holster.

not me but gives you an idea how big it is and how it is carried.

LOL, ya, I gave thought to at least once carrying my 500 S&W open if FL ever adopts open carry.  Probably wont, because I would never want to explain why I shot the robber with such a powerful round.  it would make a mess, but it would look fantastic in the tactical thigh holster.

[¿spoom]

i'm not sure if many people would like seeing me carry my 44 in my galco kodiak hunter holster.

not me but gives you an idea how big it is and how it is carried.

Well, an IWB rig WOULD make ya look less evolved when you bent over to pick up your keys 

[¿spoom]

i'm not sure if many people would like seeing me carry my 44 in my galco kodiak hunter holster.

not me but gives you an idea how big it is and how it is carried.

LOL, ya, I gave thought to at least once carrying my 500 S&W open if FL ever adopts open carry.  Probably wont, because I would never want to explain why I shot the robber with such a powerful round.  it would make a mess, but it would look fantastic in the tactical hip holster.

Not to mention all the deaf and blind bystanders if you shot it at night, the muzzle flash alone is the same as an Iowa-class  

[old2soon]

How many rifles/pistols are registered here in America? I'm thinkin well over 98% of rifles/pistols registered are registered "legally" for lack of a better description with good folks intent on trying to stay within the law(s) as applicable to their individual situation. I've stated before I jumped through the hoops I Had too in Illinois in the 70s and now here in Missouri in the 2000s. We already KNOW this turd in Texas was NOT sposed to be Able to purchase weapons of any kind. I guess the point I'm tryin to make is in States that Do Allow us to purchase carry-open and/or concealed There is in fact a paper trail that NEEDS to be done. Also at least-I M H O-we have at this time a clear and Present danger. And if you do NOT believe terrorism is NOT here in the U S of A you have NOT been paying attention. You  Know WHY there is such a low incidence of drive bys and armed robberies here-besides St. Louis? Most of us red necks are armed and can shoot accurettly. Well better than I can spell anywho! RIDE SAFE.

[f6gal]

Nice call on the 4” 357. My K frame is my favorite gun. It’s Open carry only for me. That gun anyway

Dan

Why only open?  You live in AZ... where CC doesn't even require a permit.

[¿spoom]

How many rifles/pistols are registered here in America? I'm thinkin well over 98% of rifles/pistols registered are registered "legally" for lack of a better description with good folks intent on trying to stay within the law(s) as applicable to their individual situation. I've stated before I jumped through the hoops I Had too in Illinois in the 70s and now here in Missouri in the 2000s. We already KNOW this turd in Texas was NOT sposed to be Able to purchase weapons of any kind. I guess the point I'm tryin to make is in States that Do Allow us to purchase carry-open and/or concealed There is in fact a paper trail that NEEDS to be done. Also at least-I M H O-we have at this time a clear and Present danger. And if you do NOT believe terrorism is NOT here in the U S of A you have NOT been paying attention. You  Know WHY there is such a low incidence of drive bys and armed robberies here-besides St. Louis? Most of us red necks are armed and can shoot accurettly. Well better than I can spell anywho! RIDE SAFE.

"besides St. Louis" and Chicago, and Milwaukee, and... There lies the real problem, IMHO.

[old2soon]

i'm not sure if many people would like seeing me carry my 44 in my galco kodiak hunter holster.

not me but gives you an idea how big it is and how it is carried.

LOL, ya, I gave thought to at least once carrying my 500 S&W open if FL ever adopts open carry.  Probably wont, because I would never want to explain why I shot the robber with such a powerful round.  it would make a mess, but it would look fantastic in the tactical hip holster.

Not to mention all the deaf and blind bystanders if you shot it at night, the muzzle flash alone is the same as an Iowa-class  

             Only ever saw the night flash-in person-of a 5" 38. Only ever seen the flash of a 16" rifle in movies-D O D movies. But-ya-I duz know what yer talkin bout. RIDE SAFE.

[Chrisj CMA]

I think FL has it right. And at least here the bottom line is, you have to be in fear of your life. If you are genuinely and verifiably afraid you may be killed, draw, shoot and surrender to law enforcement. If you weren't being threatened at the time of the shooting it doesn't matter how bad the bad guy was, some sleazy lawyer is going to try to ruin your life.

If you have Netflix, the documentary, The Armor of Light, might be of interest as it speaks to the Florida law you mention.

I do not have Netflix.  I did read the description of the film.  

Let me just say the FL stand your ground law is exactly what a responsible law abiding gun owner needs. However, I agree for someone not so disciplined and maybe out to be a hero, this law might seem to that person as a license to kill.  It is not that.  

I wish lawyers would get better at applying the stand your ground law intead of freaking out over few and far between glitches.

Bottom line it's designed to protect you if you stand up to an intruder trying to hurt you or your family.  There is no moral dilema about owning guns and or using them to protect yourself if you are an honorable person sincerely defending yourself or someone else from likely death or serious injury.  If you are anything else you should not get protection from this law.

I believe the disconnect outsiders have with America's stance on guns is that we believe something that many others don't.  We believe the right to defend ourselves even with guns if necessary is a right given to all men from God not by the second amendment, not by state laws.  Pro gun amendments and laws simply protect these God given rights from ungodly people that may try to interfere with the liberty and pursuit of happiness of others.

While I admire anyone who tries to adhere to Christian principles (and sports a great fairing) I cringe at statements regarding God-given rights when man's laws are being discussed. The US has the right to pass laws that all are supposed to obey, and though the founding fathers were as a group, God fearing/believing, Christian-raised persons, they wouldn't have bothered with a Constitution and later on the Bill of Rights if they wanted religion to be the same as civil law. They could have just tossed a Bible on the table at the first Continental Congress and said, "Here's our laws, everybody sign it and we can get back to our homes". The problem with law based on religion is that people pick their religion, and if necessary, make their gods in their own image. Religion is a personal choice and belief set entered voluntarily and carried with one regardless of one's location on the planet. Civil law is what we're stuck with as a condition of location. As much as a Christian's faith in the 10 Commandments as God's word keeps him from killing for sport or religious beliefs, we have those on the planet who believe just as strongly that you are an infidel and should be squashed like a bug (or at least taxed heavily) if you refuse to convert to Islam when confronted. That's why no civilized nation can allow personal religious beliefs/opinions to be regarded as law. There's not a single Commandment I could possibly disagree with, but that's not a religious statement, just common sense IMHO, and whether in the Bile or not, they all make sense. Since there will always be follows of different religions, we really need civil law to be the rule here, and religion in our homes, without demanding those around us share our beliefs regardless of the law. ISIS, too, believes in not, "hiding their light under a bushel" and the list goes on. Just venting, not meant to be just to you. A recent thread here looked like a commercial for Left Twix vs Right Twix, and a perfect example why even those with shared beliefs can't agree on religion, much less man's laws. Phew, I feel better now  

Glad you feel better.  and thanks for the compliment on the faring.  

[¿spoom]

Nice call on the 4” 357. My K frame is my favorite gun. It’s Open carry only for me. That gun anyway

Dan

Why only open?  You live in AZ... where CC doesn't even require a permit.

I too, am curious why anyone would only carry open. Many times, that just makes you a nice, juicy "gun shopper's" target. Somebody jams a gun in your back and tells you calmly to don't move while they help themselves is a more likely scenario than someone who sees you around town daily and has no idea you are carrying around something they wish to steal. I absolutely know of situations where open carry makes sense (and have done it) but never exclusively and way less than concealed.

[DirtyDan]

Nice call on the 4” 357. My K frame is my favorite gun. It’s Open carry only for me. That gun anyway

Dan

Why only open?  You live in AZ... where CC doesn't even require a permit.

I too, am curious why anyone would only carry open. Many times, that just make you a nice, juicy "gun shopper's" target. Somebody jams a gun in your back and tells you calmly to don't move while they help themselves is a more likely scenario than someone who sees you around town daily and has no idea you are carrying around something they wish to steal. I absolutely know of situations where open carry makes sense (and have done it) but never exclusively and way less than concealed.

Ok what I was trying to say is the K frame is too big to conceal for me. Oh believe me the smaller J frame is great for the pocket. I do carry concealed just not the “big one” thou it’s more like a medium with this crowd 

Dan

[¿spoom]

Nice call on the 4” 357. My K frame is my favorite gun. It’s Open carry only for me. That gun anyway

Dan

Why only open?  You live in AZ... where CC doesn't even require a permit.

I too, am curious why anyone would only carry open. Many times, that just make you a nice, juicy "gun shopper's" target. Somebody jams a gun in your back and tells you calmly to don't move while they help themselves is a more likely scenario than someone who sees you around town daily and has no idea you are carrying around something they wish to steal. I absolutely know of situations where open carry makes sense (and have done it) but never exclusively and way less than concealed.

Ok what I was trying to say is the K frame is too big to conceal for me. Oh believe me the smaller J frame is great for the pocket. I do carry concealed just not the “big one” thou it’s more like a medium with this crowd 

Dan

Ah, got it. 

[Gavin_Sons]

Nice call on the 4” 357. My K frame is my favorite gun. It’s Open carry only for me. That gun anyway

Dan

Why only open?  You live in AZ... where CC doesn't even require a permit.

I too, am curious why anyone would only carry open. Many times, that just make you a nice, juicy "gun shopper's" target. Somebody jams a gun in your back and tells you calmly to don't move while they help themselves is a more likely scenario than someone who sees you around town daily and has no idea you are carrying around something they wish to steal. I absolutely know of situations where open carry makes sense (and have done it) but never exclusively and way less than concealed.

Ok what I was trying to say is the K frame is too big to conceal for me. Oh believe me the smaller J frame is great for the pocket. I do carry concealed just not the “big one” thou it’s more like a medium with this crowd 

Dan

  i wish i still had my 500. I like the recoil. Even with the hottest loads i dare to load up for my 44, it still does not compare to a 500 with factory loads. I have been looking at the 460 revolvers recently. Thinking about picking one up for deer hunting. Maybe after i knock a few down with the 44 i'll graduate to the 460.

[bscrive]

"We believe the right to defend ourselves even with guns if necessary is a right given to all men from God not by the second amendment, not by state laws.  Pro gun amendments and laws simply protect these God given rights from ungodly people that may try to interfere with the liberty and pursuit of happiness of others."

Commandment 13 - Thou shalt not kill.

Sorry Chris, it is not a 'God given' right.  

Even as an atheist, this is pretty clear to me.  Do not kill.  I don't see any caveat with this commandment.

I know you will try to debate this with all other kinds of texts from the bible, but I believe they are superseded by the 13th commandment.

Although, I do believe that if someone tries to harm you, or your family that you should use any means to defend yourself.  If they come into your house then they are fair game to get killed, but I still don't believe that people should carry guns.  Live by the sword, die by the sword is the old saying.

Again you prove my point.  Not only are you clueless about America, you are also having a hard time interpreting scripture correctly so, I do apologize, I should not have read this post, since I know you cant help it, you just don't understand.

You see as an atheist (for now) you cannot understand the scriptures because they are "spiritually discerned"  I cannot even argue with you because it would be like trying to teach a dog to ride a motorcycle (see how I got it to be bike related)  lol

I would recommend you not moving to a pro gun state in America any time soon, too many Christians and too many guns you would be uncomfortable.

You know Chris, for a man who says that he is a devout Christian, you sure do not present yourself that way.

Sure, I got the commandment number wrong and the exact text wrong, but being a devout Christian, you should have taken the high road and corrected me on the proper wording and try to do so in non condescending way.  Instead you decided to put me down and to call me a dog.   

Remember, I did say that I am an atheist and I never said that I was an expert in the bible.  Just the opposite, I don't believe in it, but I would never put you down for believing in it.  I think you should look at Willow's comment in another topic where Daddio put down Oss.

I don't believe that I have ever put anyone down because I didn't agree with their view and I don't think that you should either.  I am only giving my views just as you do and putting someone down to try to shut them up is bullying.

I have a sister who is a 'born again' and she is very much like you.  She has her views and puts down everyone who doesn't agree with her.  She is not a nice person, so I don't have much to do with her.

I just wonder how Jesus would done in his ministries if he would have went around saying "you cannot understand the scriptures because they are "spiritually discerned"  I cannot even argue with you because it would be like trying to teach a dog to.....".  Maybe you should stop and reflect before you respond to people.

As for Psycotic Bovine, at least you corrected me, although, not in a very nice manner.  Perhaps, you should read Willow's comment as well.

As for me, well I remember now why I don't come over to the General Board very much.  I think I will stick with the 1800 Tech board.  Those guys are pretty nice.
   

[Gavin_Sons]

"We believe the right to defend ourselves even with guns if necessary is a right given to all men from God not by the second amendment, not by state laws.  Pro gun amendments and laws simply protect these God given rights from ungodly people that may try to interfere with the liberty and pursuit of happiness of others."

Commandment 13 - Thou shalt not kill.

Sorry Chris, it is not a 'God given' right.  

Even as an atheist, this is pretty clear to me.  Do not kill.  I don't see any caveat with this commandment.

I know you will try to debate this with all other kinds of texts from the bible, but I believe they are superseded by the 13th commandment.

Although, I do believe that if someone tries to harm you, or your family that you should use any means to defend yourself.  If they come into your house then they are fair game to get killed, but I still don't believe that people should carry guns.  Live by the sword, die by the sword is the old saying.

Again you prove my point.  Not only are you clueless about America, you are also having a hard time interpreting scripture correctly so, I do apologize, I should not have read this post, since I know you cant help it, you just don't understand.

You see as an atheist (for now) you cannot understand the scriptures because they are "spiritually discerned"  I cannot even argue with you because it would be like trying to teach a dog to ride a motorcycle (see how I got it to be bike related)  lol

I would recommend you not moving to a pro gun state in America any time soon, too many Christians and too many guns you would be uncomfortable.

You know Chris, for a man who says that he is a devout Christian, you sure do not present yourself that way.

Sure, I got the commandment number wrong and the exact text wrong, but being a devout Christian, you should have taken the high road and corrected me on the proper wording and try to do so in non condescending way.  Instead you decided to put me down and to call me a dog.   

Remember, I did say that I am an atheist and I never said that I was an expert in the bible.  Just the opposite, I don't believe in it, but I would never put you down for believing in it.  I think you should look at Willow's comment in another topic where Daddio put down Oss.

I don't believe that I have ever put anyone down because I didn't agree with their view and I don't think that you should either.  I am only giving my views just as you do and putting someone down to try to shut them up is bullying.

I have a sister who is a 'born again' and she is very much like you.  She has her views and puts down everyone who doesn't agree with her.  She is not a nice person, so I don't have much to do with her.

I just wonder how Jesus would done in his ministries if he would have went around saying "you cannot understand the scriptures because they are "spiritually discerned"  I cannot even argue with you because it would be like trying to teach a dog to.....".  Maybe you should stop and reflect before you respond to people.

As for Psycotic Bovine, at least you corrected me, although, not in a very nice manner.  Perhaps, you should read Willow's comment as well.

As for me, well I remember now why I don't come over to the General Board very much.  I think I will stick with the 1800 Tech board.  Those guys are pretty nice.
   

to be fair, you got yourself in this discussion and then pointed out several things that were completely wrong. It's never a good idea for a non christian to get into a discussion about christianity and also not a good idea for an outsider to get into a discussion about guns in another country. You know as well as i do that either one of those topics hits real close to most members on this board. If you don't like being corrected or the answers given stay out of the discussion. I'm not claiming to be a hard core christian, i have not been to church for 7 years. Last church i was a member of pissed me off so now i have a huge issue with organized religion. It probably is not right that i take that stance but i'm hard headed and once i decide something that is the way it is going to be. My wife hates that about me. 

[3fan4life]

Not a topic they are willing to discuss in the least.........

No, not a topic we are willing to discuss with someone who doesn't know jack squat about the subject.
Don't argue; you don't know what you are talking about.  You are only making yourself look foolish.

Mad Cow, we have different opinions but keep the personal attacks to yourself. I know quite a bit about firearms and shooting sports and don't need your approval for any comment I make. You're the one who makes himself look foolish by insulting someone's intelligence because they don't share your view. Stats can be construed to prove almost any position, especially when they cannot be proven or qualified.
Bye the way...I had a great weekend actually USING my firearms..Lots of grouse, couple rabbits and whitefish were running so we got some fish too....a great weekend enjoying the sports I love with my legal firearms.  Insult someone who might care next time......

I truly am glad that you enjoyed your weekend and that you enjoyed shooting your guns.

I also sincerely hope that with your 5 round limit that you never find yourself surrounded by a pack of 20 rabid wolves.

[northernvalk]

Not a topic they are willing to discuss in the least.........

No, not a topic we are willing to discuss with someone who doesn't know jack squat about the subject.
Don't argue; you don't know what you are talking about.  You are only making yourself look foolish.

Mad Cow, we have different opinions but keep the personal attacks to yourself. I know quite a bit about firearms and shooting sports and don't need your approval for any comment I make. You're the one who makes himself look foolish by insulting someone's intelligence because they don't share your view. Stats can be construed to prove almost any position, especially when they cannot be proven or qualified.
Bye the way...I had a great weekend actually USING my firearms..Lots of grouse, couple rabbits and whitefish were running so we got some fish too....a great weekend enjoying the sports I love with my legal firearms.  Insult someone who might care next time......

I truly am glad that you enjoyed your weekend and that you enjoyed shooting your guns.

I also sincerely hope that with your 5 round limit that you never find yourself surrounded by a pack of 20 rabid wolves.

Your attempt at an insult shows your complete lack of knowledge.....no one has died from a rabid wolf attack in the last 80 years or so....As a trapper, I know wolf attacks are even more rare than liberal gun owners and a wolf pack would NEVER allow a rabid member in the pack....feeble attempt.