New California declares "independence" from rest of state

[Rams]

New California????????????

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-california-declares-independence-from-rest-of-state/ar-AAuLdwL?ocid=spartanntp

While I have my doubts, I do sincerely wish these folks the best of luck in their cause.   

"Old" California won't survive a year without help........   

Rams

[¿spoom]

Yeah, I remember when there was a good push to cut it in half and have the States of N.California and South California, as the north felt they were unfairly saddled with the costs of maintaining the LA Zoo. I had to laugh, since the SF area isn't much like the rural parts of CA. East & West Cali would be funny, wonder if E.Cal would mess with the water path to LA despite the Federal rules.

[DirtyDan]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)

My buddy up in north California told me about this

Dan

[¿spoom]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)

My buddy up in north California told me about this

Dan

Same with IL where the NE corner of the State is subsidized by the rest of it, despite the unbelievable tax base of Chicago.

[Wizzard]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)

My buddy up in north California told me about this

Dan

Same with IL where the NE corner of the State is subsidized by the rest of it, despite the unbelievable tax base of Chicago.

That is why I live in Indiana just across the border. All our taxes are lower.

[semo97]

When I was back in Colorado from '12 to '16 the north east counties voted and it past to pull away from the state and start North Colorado as a state. Do not know how it is going but the oil, gas and agriculture revenue was getting sucked away from them to the cities. I went back to Tx. I had problems with the way there government was run.

[Savago]

Judging that the big companies (Apple, Google, Facebook, etc) are all based in the Silicon Valley and are responsible for hiring engineers that pay a *lot* in State income taxes, it would probably be bad from a financial point of view for 'East California' to separate from the rest.

Even though Agriculture is something important (i.e. you can't feed from iphones), that represents a smaller part of the State resources origin (IIRC, 12%) while using about 90% of the water available in California.

Even though LA can be a bit messy sometimes, there is an important industry there (Hollywood) that is strategic towards global USA influence (i.e. soft power, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_power).

All this separatists everywhere are looking for either getting themselves a nice and stable state job (with an unrealistic pension) or are looking to make the State (and the country) weaker.

Guess what is common between the CalExit and some websites calling for Texas to secede? Check this:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/03/is-russia-behind-a-secession-effort-in-california/517890/

And while I appreciate the financial sense of California contributing more to USA than we get back,
 around 13.3% of GDP (http://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-each-state-contributes-to-the-us-economy-2015-9) and being the 46th State in amount of federal resources received (https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/) a much rather see a 'United States of America' than a 'Divided States' really.

ps: the top 10 most dependent states are:
1 - Kentucky
2 - Missipi
3 - New Mexico
4 - Alabama
5 - West Virginia
6 - South Carolina
7 - Montana
8 - Tennessee
9 - Maine
10 - Indiana

There is a bit of dispute about how much California gets from the Federal government, ranging from 99 cents/dolar to 78 cents/dolar (http://www.politifact.com/california/article/2017/feb/14/does-california-give-more-it-gets-dc/), but it is pretty much agreed that it is a donor state.

[MarkT]

When I was back in Colorado from '12 to '16 the north east counties voted and it past to pull away from the state and start North Colorado as a state. Do not know how it is going but the oil, gas and agriculture revenue was getting sucked away from them to the cities. I went back to Tx. I had problems with the way there government was run.

I haven't heard anything more on this since 2013, can't find more now, and I've lived here 31 years and stay on top of local and national news.  I think it's shelved at least for now.

Here's an article that says it's not happening for now.  This is from time.com so take that with some salt.  http://nation.time.com/2013/11/06/northern-colorado-wont-become-the-51st-state/

I'd love to see California's influence on the rest of the country, be reduced.  Chop it up.

[Serk]

Guess what is common between the CalExit and some websites calling for Texas to secede? Check this:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/03/is-russia-behind-a-secession-effort-in-california/517890/

[Savago]

@Serk: did you at least read the article?

Here, found another one from a Texas source: https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/05/11/russia-cultivates-fringe-groups-asthe-california-secession-movement

But that is kind of tangential to the main thread subject.

[¿spoom]

Judging that the big companies (Apple, Google, Facebook, etc) are all based in the Silicon Valley and are responsible for hiring engineers that pay a *lot* in State income taxes, it would probably be bad from a financial point of view for 'East California' to separate from the rest.

Even though Agriculture is something important (i.e. you can't feed from iphones), that represents a smaller part of the State resources origin (IIRC, 12%) while using about 90% of the water available in California.

Even though LA can be a bit messy sometimes, there is an important industry there (Hollywood) that is strategic towards global USA influence (i.e. soft power, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_power).

All this separatists everywhere are looking for either getting themselves a nice and stable state job (with an unrealistic pension) or are looking to make the State (and the country) weaker.

Guess what is common between the CalExit and some websites calling for Texas to secede? Check this:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/03/is-russia-behind-a-secession-effort-in-california/517890/

And while I appreciate the financial sense of California contributing more to USA than we get back,
 around 13.3% of GDP (http://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-each-state-contributes-to-the-us-economy-2015-9) and being the 46th State in amount of federal resources received (https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/) a much rather see a 'United States of America' than a 'Divided States' really.

ps: the top 10 most dependent states are:
1 - Kentucky
2 - Missipi
3 - New Mexico
4 - Alabama
5 - West Virginia
6 - South Carolina
7 - Montana
8 - Tennessee
9 - Maine
10 - Indiana

There is a bit of dispute about how much California gets from the Federal government, ranging from 99 cents/dolar to 78 cents/dolar (http://www.politifact.com/california/article/2017/feb/14/does-california-give-more-it-gets-dc/), but it is pretty much agreed that it is a donor state.

Good points, though there's several arguments I've read concerning what gets counted as "aid" depending on one's thought direction, but I don't see how California's give/take ratio has anything to do with a E/W or N/S California split? If you cut a rat or gold coin in two, you still get two half rats or half coins.
As for all the huge corporate wealth generated on the west coast, If I listen to the left's campaign talking points, those dirty rotten wealthy bastiges don't pay their fair share and hide their money with loopholes. Why, I heard Romney pain NO Federal Taxes, and that was from a high-ranking Democrat.  I imagine if the west & east split, the higher income of the west would be offset by the higher social costs, which would REALLY skyrocket based on how the coasts vote now. Anyway, I don't see where TX would win Civil WarII, so the divided nation part is moot.

[Jess from VA]

I don't care how much coastal CA is worth or makes, the (people of the) rest of the state would be better off without them.

And so would the electoral college.

[Savago]

@spoom: it seems unwise to create YADS (Yet Another Deficit State).

To use your analogy, one side would take the gold and the other would take... a rat budget to take care of a gigantic land territory to administer. Who is going to pay for that?

So it obviously isn't for financial reasons.

It took me a little while to understand, but this smells like 'rat ass' (again, using your analogy): another way of gerrymandering.

[Savago]

I guess this explains the purpose (zoom in California and cross it with the 'New California' State):

[Savago]

So, yeah, I will update what I wrote early: All this separatists everywhere are looking for either getting themselves a nice and stable state job (with an unrealistic pension) or are looking to make the State (and the country) weaker or gerrymandering.

[¿spoom]

@spoom: it seems unwise to create YANDS (Yet Another Deficit State).

To use your analogy, one side would take the gold and the other would take... a rat budget to take care of a gigantic land territory to administer. Who is going to pay for that?

So it obviously isn't for financial reasons.

It took me a little while to understand, but this smells like 'rat ass' (again, using your analogy): another way of gerrymandering.

Except that wasn't my analogy. I said, "If you cut a rat or gold coin in two" but perhaps you read, "If you cut a rat and gold coin in two"?
Edit; and I'm wondering how I got sucked into the early/original discussion sliding from dividing CA into two smaller States to "California seceding from the US"? I think the whole "gerrymandering" thing can be argued for or against with equal zeal. It's usually screams of gerrymandering when the side in power wants to do it, but silence otherwise, and a State as large as CA, TX, AK could be seen in a much different view because it's so different that most. Where say RI may be seen as unfairly getting 2 whole Senators, the reverse in CA is probably more damaging to folks' representation. Nothing underhanded, especially considering there was no huge west coast population in 1880's compared to now. There also weren't social programs and Federal Income Taxes, so elections weren't so much about choosing how people's money should be taken from them and handed out as party favors. 

[¿spoom]

I guess this explains the purpose (zoom in California and cross it with the 'New California' State):

Of course it explains it. People in the east of CA feel they have no representation. I understand. If I lived in central Milwaukee, nothing I want would happen. It's not exactly a secret plan, people are just being vocal about what they perceive as an inequity, perhaps like Clinton voters and the Electoral College?

[Savago]

A bit of humor: 

[Jess from VA]

Yeah that looks good to me, but we need to get rid of (much of) the Northeast, NY, and IL too.

And all of CA need not go; just coastal for 50 miles from San Francisco to San Diego will do.  There's always the San Andreas, and the fault line is just about right.

Little lean in the North, and wide in the south but what can you do?

 

[DirtyDan]

And while on subject

https://pjmedia.com/trending/whats-matter-california/

Dan

[¿spoom]

A bit of humor: 

How is that humor? California sees the rest of the country as the Confederacy? Seems like pathetic, not funny.

[DirtyDan]

How many around here have the “stars and bars” displayed somehow ?

Mine is sewn on my vest. Did that in 2010, saw the way the world’s going

Dan

[rocketray]

let's see..the Russians blocked the California ports to aid the Union in the Civil War and took most of the casualties i WWI and WWII...and they are ..the bad guys

[Serk]

Fixed that for ya':

[Jess from VA]

Nice work there pal.  

Nothing like truth in advertising.

[Savago]

@Serk: damn, you beat me at it (I was just about to post the 'alternate' version).
:-D

[Serk]

@Serk: damn, you beat me at it (I was just about to post the 'alternate' version).
:-D

There's more than one way to skin a cat...

[Rams]

How is that humor? California sees the rest of the country as the Confederacy? Seems like pathetic, not funny.

I don't know if that humor or not but, what I wonder is, how does the rest of the country view California, not how California views the rest of the country.

Not all of CA but definitely the part that New CA wants to NOT be a part of.................

Rams

[Reb]

Yeah that looks good to me, but we need to get rid of (much of) the Northeast, NY, and IL too.

And all of CA need not go; just coastal for 50 miles from San Francisco to San Diego will do.  There's always the San Andreas, and the fault line is just about right.

Little lean in the North, and wide in the south but what can you do?

 

No no, just Chicago & East St. Louis. The rest of IL is fine

[Jess from VA]

Yeah that looks good to me, but we need to get rid of (much of) the Northeast, NY, and IL too.

And all of CA need not go; just coastal for 50 miles from San Francisco to San Diego will do.  There's always the San Andreas, and the fault line is just about right.

Little lean in the North, and wide in the south but what can you do?

 

No no, just Chicago & East St. Louis. The rest of IL is fine

Yeah, I know, and the same deal in NY state.

[¿spoom]

NY is a perfect example of a tail wagging the dog, and an urban area owning the lives of everyone else in the State come tax time.

[old2soon]

When I wuz still residing in Illinois in the 70s-Lake County Chicago is Cook County-they-Chicago-wanted a tax increase from me and others in counties NOT in Cook County for the C T A-Chicago transit authority. I went to one of the meeting that were sposed to splain the benefits of US non residents of Cook County would reap by payin More taxes. Someone else asked my question(s). Would we be gittin C T A buses or C T A trains out here in Round Lake and other areas? Short answer-NO-Cook County just wanted our money cuz they didn't have enough!  Sound familiar?  And this were in the 1970s!  Dumb Asses.  RIDE SAFE.

[sheets]

Curious to know what an unrealistic pension is.

[DirtyDan]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/02/20/california-sheriff-pensions.html

One example

Dan

[Savago]

Another funny one:

[Serk]

(I know we probably don't have many gamers here, but.........)

[DirtyDan]

Gamer ?

Count me INN

dungeons n dragons 1977 how I learned to read

Dan

[Serk]

Gamer ?

Count me INN

dungeons n dragons 1977 how I learned to read

Dan

Heh, same... I DM'ed a campaign after classes in 5th grade until some Bible thumper parents demanded the school stop allowing satan worshiping on school campus. I had no idea what the heck they were complaining about, but.... yeah...

Still have some of my 1st Edition manuals, including Fiend Folio (Although sadly my 1st edition Deities and Demigods that still has the Cthulhu Mythos section got lost over the years. )

But in this case I was referring to the video game Fallout New Vegas and it's prophetic bits about the New California Republic:

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/New_California_Republic