Uh Oh - Harley D.

[..]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/01/30/harley-davidson-kansas-city-plant-motorcycle-sales-fall/1078008001/

[czuch]

Well, there goes my dividend check.

[f6john]

Well, you know, it’s all Trumps fault.

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

Sadly, I'm pretty sure this isn't just a problem for H-D. While some do, most millenials don't seem to be interested in motorcycles. Well, maybe in video games, but not in actuality.

[Moonshot_1]

Sadly, I'm pretty sure this isn't just a problem for H-D. While some do, most millenials don't seem to be interested in motorcycles. Well, maybe in video games, but not in actuality.

Too hard to text.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Sadly, I'm pretty sure this isn't just a problem for H-D. While some do, most millenials don't seem to be interested in motorcycles. Well, maybe in video games, but not in actuality.

Too hard to text.

Naw....they have those voice to text thingies these days. Seriously, it`s probably pricing. My first brand new bike was a 750 Yamaha for $1999. But I bought many nice bikes for $500-$700 before that. Can`t get a good helmet for that nowadays.

[Raider]

I loved this little gem from the article, "The earnings drop came in part because of a charge associated with President Trump's tax cut and a $29.4 million charge for a voluntary product recall."  Of course, they offered no further explanation.  What's more, this flies completely in the face of the assertion that the tax cut would only help big business, but hurt the common man.  Now they're defying themselves to say that it actually HURTS big business?

[bagelboy]

Maybe people just can't afford to spend 30 grand on a motorcycle

[old2soon]

Maybe people just can't afford to spend 30 grand on a motorcycle

              Seen a couple H/Ds near on and past 40G. W T F over? BUT my Dealer in West Plains Mo stated his big Japanese cruisers are movin slow also. It are what it are. And the demographic they-H/D-play to are aging. RIDE SAFE.

[Alpha Dog]

I loved this little gem from the article, "The earnings drop came in part because of a charge associated with President Trump's tax cut and a $29.4 million charge for a voluntary product recall."  Of course, they offered no further explanation.  What's more, this flies completely in the face of the assertion that the tax cut would only help big business, but hurt the common man.  Now they're defying themselves to say that it actually HURTS big business?

I read that also and it made no sense.  Needs clarified   or   article was just playing to the typical USA Today Reader.  

This is not good news and continues a downward trend and has been talked and written about many times on other motorcycle blogs and certainly here and the underlying cause the younger generation just does not want to ride for a variety of reasons.

[Jess from VA]

I loved this little gem from the article, "The earnings drop came in part because of a charge associated with President Trump's tax cut and a $29.4 million charge for a voluntary product recall."  Of course, they offered no further explanation.  What's more, this flies completely in the face of the assertion that the tax cut would only help big business, but hurt the common man.  Now they're defying themselves to say that it actually HURTS big business?

I read that also and it made no sense.  Needs clarified   or   article was just playing to the typical USA Today Reader.  

This is not good news and continues a downward trend and has been talked and written about many times on other motorcycle blogs and certainly here and the underlying cause the younger generation just does not want to ride for a variety of reasons.

Pussification.             (it's not in Websters)

And, I think, an unwillingness to work for small money.  My parents wouldn't buy me a motorcycle either.

[Serk]

...and in unrelated news, Harley just announced a Harley coming out in 2020 that I wouldn't mind owning!

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-harley-davidson-electric-motorcycle-20180130-story.html

I'm sure I wouldn't be able to afford it, but dang the instant torque of an electric on a bike would be a blast!

[cookiedough]

sales overall down 11 percent is understandable.  Pricing,  no disposable income, younger generation are all to blame, not just one simple thing.

Even Indian co. coming to life taking some of HD sales away am sure.

When cycles start going over 10K not too many people, especially younger generation, will buy new or used.  Thus there is a reason on why some of us drive cycles that are 20 years old and can get collectors plates on them me having 3 over 20 years old myself.

[Savago]

The boomers are getting too old to ride* or are simply dying. It is a fact.

The millennials are in deep education debt and lack any of the good and oldie jobs (paid vacations, 401K, bonuses, etc), most of them are temporary workers.

They can't safe and can't afford to buy houses whose prices are skyrocketing. Most will dwell in the city centers where they can use Uber and public transportation to get around.

X-generation will either buy Ducati, BMW, Triumph or Jap bikes (better value + performance). Some will instead rebuild classic bikes and turn them into cafe racers.

Indian showed up with some pretty nice bikes (overly priced, but at least they perform decently).

The bigger and fast growing market is the adventure bikes market (not big cruisers).

And HD can't understand why they are not able to move 30K-40K priced cruisers (that are outdated in technology and performance)?

They are in a hard place: if they try to re-invent themselves, they will alienate their core (and diminishing) loyal base.

* the ones still riding either have a goldwing or are downsizing (i.e. getting lighter bikes).

[cookiedough]

as said also, the younger generation (except my kid and 1 other in high school) do not ride cycles vs. say 25+ years ago similar sized small school there were 5-8 kids with cycles way back then when I went to high school.  My kid this year in high school was the only one in a high school of only around 110 kids (guessing 60 boys but juniors and seniors guessing only 35 boys who have valid drivers/car license) to ride a cycle to school a few times.

Plus,  at least in WI, all kids wanting to drive a cycle costs an arm and a leg around 300+ bucks MUST take a beginner safety/drivers course part class/part driving around cones at slow speeds basically.  One of the other kids in his class said he wants and has a cycle to drive, but his parents cannot afford the 300+ bucks for him to take the required beginner drivers course.  Not to mention insurance for teenagers as well both on the cars and cycles is NUTS that I know first hand.  My kid was bored since he had 2-3 months of driving a cycle with temps on his 97 honda magna (and my 250cc scooter) but if it were not for the say 10 times out with temps using a clutch, etc.  it would have been a huge learning experience and much harder am sure killing the engine more often on those 250cc small rental bikes he was on.  It was funny 2 kids had little honda gromms looking tiny bikes and they were friends and they kept smashing into each other with their tires going around donuts, etc. and they still passed goofing off although most bumps were done when AFTER the cones coming to a stop in the lineup again.

The instructor asked me if I wanted to take the beginner course and I said waste of money but then he said I should take the advanced course would do me some good, yet again, costing me an arm and a leg as well.

[PhoenixRizing]

My kids are practically fighting over who gets my Valkyrie when I pass on. I take my youngest for rides every summer. He can’t wait to get his own and ride with dad. Same goes for hot ridding. We work on them together and drive them together. I want my grand babies to enjoy what I’ve enjoyed. I believe it comes down to how they are raised. Parents are too caught up in their own lives to take time out and spend it with their children doing things anymore. Then in return you get a generation of kids that don’t want to do anything that doesn’t involve some kind of electronic device. I make my kids go outside and play when it’s nice out. They normally don’t argue too much bout it either.

[Firefighter]

Then in return you get a generation of kids that don’t want to do anything that doesn’t involve some kind of electronic device. I make my kids go outside and play when it’s nice out. They normally don’t argue too much bout it either.
I believe it comes down to how they are raised


I always hear that "How they are raised" but not so in my case. I bought my two boys a four wheeler while they were in grade school. One was interested the other wasn't. I always wanted go carts or dirt bikes when I was a kid and figured my kids would too. I tried to get them interested in radio control cars or aircraft, but it was short lived. They were interested in games and electronics. Later on skate boarding came into their lives so I built a half pipe in the back yard and so many ramps I can't remember, they weren't interested in learning how to build that was always my job. They weren't interested in mechanics, could barley get them outside to try and teach them anything. I always loved the outdoor things or anything that goes, my boys gravitated indoors.

[northernvalk]

This discontinuation of the v-rod platform and the feeble output of the new 500 and 750 street's told me everything I needed to know about HD...they are lost forever to the archaic technology they employ...RIP

[¿spoom]

Less people buying big bikes, and more people making them. Harley didn't have any entry level bikes for years, and the Street looks like metrics costing less. If they'd had any kind of vision for the future, there would be 1-2 generations of former Buell Blast riders on new big twins, and the Blast itself would have evolved into nice cruiser bike like the best "first bike" ever-the Suzuki Savage 650.  
Personally, I find myself riding less and less because of the text/call while driving cellphone peeps who aren't buying bikes like we did as young'uns. The bike market is changing, and the winners will be the ones with the kind of bikes folks want at the moment. Honda has mostly walked away from the US cruiser market compared to the small displacement bikes they sell in SE Asia.

[Ramie]

I wonder how the used motorcycle market is doing?

[PAVALKER]

I wonder how the used motorcycle market is doing?

Ding Ding Ding.....   Much better than new I think.   Last few bikes I bought were used and at less than half price of new.   I'm selling an  82 CB900 this W/E in the middle of winter (he is coming to get it with a U Haul Trailer and a U Haul Truck).    That will leave me with just 2 Valks (a 99 and 2014)...but I'm Ok with that.

[solo1]

I quit riding primarily because, physically, my knees didn't like it but secondarily was my inability to figure out what the texters were doing. I never had a bike accident, read a lot of David Hough's books on avoiding stupid drivers, but I figured sooner or later I would misread these idiotic texters and end up dead or one massive 87 year old bruise.

Small cars like my Miata are also ignored but at least I have SOME steel to protect me.  I envy those who can ride without dumarse city texters all around them.

I'm still going to try my son's Triumph Scrambler in some back road this summer if my knees will hack it.

[baldo]

I quit riding primarily because, physically, my knees didn't like it but secondarily was my inability to figure out what the texters were doing. I never had a bike accident, read a lot of David Hough's books on avoiding stupid drivers, but I figured sooner or later I would misread these idiotic texters and end up dead or one massive 87 year old bruise.

Small cars like my Miata are also ignored but at least I have SOME steel to protect me.  I envy those who can ride without dumarse city texters all around them.

I'm still going to try my son's Triumph Scrambler in some back road this summer if my knees will hack it.

A friend has one of those. I rode it last year, what a blast!

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

The Scrambler is a fun ride. I can't speak for the Street Scrambler, or even the fuel injected ones. Mine is a 2006; the first year.  

[cookiedough]

Then in return you get a generation of kids that don’t want to do anything that doesn’t involve some kind of electronic device. I make my kids go outside and play when it’s nice out. They normally don’t argue too much bout it either.
I believe it comes down to how they are raised


I always hear that "How they are raised" but not so in my case. I bought my two boys a four wheeler while they were in grade school. One was interested the other wasn't. I always wanted go carts or dirt bikes when I was a kid and figured my kids would too. I tried to get them interested in radio control cars or aircraft, but it was short lived. They were interested in games and electronics. Later on skate boarding came into their lives so I built a half pipe in the back yard and so many ramps I can't remember, they weren't interested in learning how to build that was always my job. They weren't interested in mechanics, could barley get them outside to try and teach them anything. I always loved the outdoor things or anything that goes, my boys gravitated indoors.

sort of same boat,  boy age 17 when younger lost interest in ATVing we use to go when he was younger age 7 on up all the time, not hardly anymore.  He got new interests like girlyfriends and powerlifting.  Well, at least one of them does not cost too much money, guess which one?  I got him started in weight lifting in middle school and at least that caught on to the point of obsessive compulsive in my eyes.  He tried baseball, basketball in middle school but lost interest same as skateboarding he has 2 longboards/skateboards bought in middle school he has not ridden them in over 3 years now.  He does enjoy motorcycle riding though which I figured give it a shot age 16 and he cannot get off one now drives his all the time.  Kids interests change as they grow no matter how we try to keep the old interests alive.   I guess a driving license does that to one, and girls......

[3fan4life]

I found myself thinking about this thread as I was driving into work this morning.

I learned to ride when I was 8yrs old.

I wouldn't get a bike of my own until I was 13, but someone always seemed to have an old mini bike that I could ride.

Early on riding was something to do on the weekends and during the summer.

Then a moped was my means of transportation until I was old enough to get a license.

I kept riding because it was fun and back when I got my first street bike it was an easy way to pick up girls.


I'm not sure why the younger generation isn't "into" motorcycles like we were.

I don't know about other states but I know that VA has changed the rules since I first got my MC license.

I got mine at 16 and rode my bike to the DMV for the road test.

My son couldn't get a MC license until 19 and he still had to have parental permission.

The basic rider course wasn't required but it made getting the license much easier.

I know that there are laws now that restrict even ATV riders to age 16.

I suspect that with increased restrictions that small children aren't getting to experience the fun and freedom that we were.

You don't miss what you've never had.  

[Serk]

Kids have definitely changed...

Here in The Republic you can get a full license to ride a motorcycle 250cc and under at 15.

Kali turned 15 this past September.

My dad has offered to GIVE her his Honda Helix... 249cc scooter that'll do 70MPH (Downhill with a good tail wind.)

We've offered to cover insurance, fuel, etc.

We've offered to pay for driver's ed and her license.

We paid for online driver's ed and signed her up, all she has to do it click through the web pages, take a test, take the paperwork down to the DMV and get her driver's license and she's mobile.

It's now almost 6 months later, she's still not finished the online driver's ed course. No drive to get her license, seems she's perfectly happy taking the school bus.

I don't get it, I was chomping at the bit to get my independence and freedom to go and do what I wanted to do...

[Jess from VA]

I don't get it, I was chomping at the bit to get my independence and freedom to go and do what I wanted to do...

Me too.  My 1962 Karmann Ghia VW waited in a used lot until the day I hit 16 (already did drivers ed with a HS teacher who punched you hard (in the arm) when you couldn't parallel park to his satisfaction) (I got a $600 90-day note to pay for it, and paid it off in 90 days).

The next year, after a summer in a field engineering trailer, I got a 6-mo old 650 BSA Lightning (with my entire summer savings).  Then on the first day I rode it to HS, I laid it down in the school bus oil slick and slid it for 20 feet or so, in front of the whole school getting on the buses to go home.  It was OK, because I got a standing ovation, and cheers to ..... do that again Jess.  

In her defense, I don't remember the girls being as crazy about getting their own cars and bikes as guys. Though, where I grew up, affluence was high, and parents cars were easy to get. Nice cars, unlike the beaters and jalopies the boys could afford.  And I don't think this has changed much, but boys had to go pick up girls for dates, not so much the other way around.  Which reminds me, when my good friend Jon showed up to pick up his date in his beater Ford van, her dad walked around it, and said .. nice van son, now take it home and if you can borrow your dad's car, I'll let you take my daughter for a date in it.  But you are never taking her out in that van (with built-in bed in back).

[The emperor has no clothes]

Kids have definitely changed...

Here in The Republic you can get a full license to ride a motorcycle 250cc and under at 15.

Kali turned 15 this past September.

My dad has offered to GIVE her his Honda Helix... 249cc scooter that'll do 70MPH (Downhill with a good tail wind.)

We've offered to cover insurance, fuel, etc.

We've offered to pay for driver's ed and her license.

We paid for online driver's ed and signed her up, all she has to do it click through the web pages, take a test, take the paperwork down to the DMV and get her driver's license and she's mobile.

It's now almost 6 months later, she's still not finished the online driver's ed course. No drive to get her license, seems she's perfectly happy taking the school bus.

I don't get it, I was chomping at the bit to get my independence and freedom to go and do what I wanted to do...

I was too ! But in fairness. I remember friends who didn't get their licenses for a year or two after they were eligible . I got mine on my birthday, taking the drivers test in February on icy streets in downtown Anchorage. Doing a parallel park on ice, with traffic zooming by, squeezing in between two cars was stressful. But I wasn't going to be denied.

[Wizzard]

looks like they may finally make a scoot that does not leak oil. It's electric 

[Serk]

looks like they may finally make a scoot that does not leak oil. It's electric 

Hope that doesn't mean it's gonna leak electrons!

That would be very... shocking!

[Roidfingers]

Also, kids these days, probably 90 percent can't drive a manual car. So, they probably have no interest in learning to ride a motorcycle.

Look in your local craigslist under motorcycle. Here, at least, 80 percent are HD. And over priced.

[Savago]

It's now almost 6 months later, she's still not finished the online driver's ed course. No drive to get her license, seems she's perfectly happy taking the school bus.

Same case with my daughter, 6 months and still haven't finished the web-based course.

I had the money separated for buying her a small bike (e.g. CB300F or a Honda Grom), but she doesn't seem in a hurry to have it.

[cookiedough]

Kids have definitely changed...

Here in The Republic you can get a full license to ride a motorcycle 250cc and under at 15.

Kali turned 15 this past September.

My dad has offered to GIVE her his Honda Helix... 249cc scooter that'll do 70MPH (Downhill with a good tail wind.)

We've offered to cover insurance, fuel, etc.

We've offered to pay for driver's ed and her license.

We paid for online driver's ed and signed her up, all she has to do it click through the web pages, take a test, take the paperwork down to the DMV and get her driver's license and she's mobile.

It's now almost 6 months later, she's still not finished the online driver's ed course. No drive to get her license, seems she's perfectly happy taking the school bus.

I don't get it, I was chomping at the bit to get my independence and freedom to go and do what I wanted to do...

keep it that way Serk, at least awhile longer.  INSURANCE is NUTTY INSANE pricey for 16 year olds with drivers licenses.....

[old2soon]

9 10 maybe 11 years of age-thinkin 10 BUT-it were a day or three ago I swung a leg over my-well a friends-motorized 2 wheeled vehicle-a Whizzer! You ran outa gas ya could pedal the cursed thing. We could afford the belt "dressing" but could NOT afford the new belt.  And I remember swappin rear tires with him cuz the Whizzer's wuz wore out. From my bicycle to the Whizzer. I recollect dad were P Od when he found out bout the tire swap!  Doin the math iffin I wuz 10 be 63 years ago the 15th of this month. Then a neighbors Cushman Eagle I believe and I were crappin in tall cotton!  Compared to the Whizzer the Cushman were FAST!  Been addicted to the Wind since that first ride those many year ago! Truth be knowed I wouldn't have it any other way! My oldest-Male-Daughter is THE oldest-but my oldest boy-big bruiser of a Man-was on my Yamaha Virago zackly once-said he were skeered and didn't wanna ride no mo. My Oldest Daughter on the other hand wanted to ride-rain or shine-but never showed an interest to be at the controls. Maybe-sad but MAYBE-Riders as we know them are in FACT a dying breed.  Sad indeed cuz they will NEVER know the pure unadulterated JOY of the wind! RIDE SAFE.