A little perspective ... or maybe a rant

[CANADIAN-F6C]

Let me start by saying that I'm not looking to start a good ole Harley stomp here - I just think that an experience I had recently + some current events are confirming some suspicions.

Myself & the better half ventured off to Florida last week for a little sun & a good liver workout. I’m not much for sitting & reading a book, so I rented a bike for some road trips. The only bikes I could find to rent in our area were HD ... what the heck, you only live once, how bad could it be? I rented a pair of 2017 Electra Glides - one for me & one for a friend who was on the same trip. Just to qualify things - we’re both very experienced riders, with lots of makes & models having passed through our garages over the years. I have never been more disappointed in a ride.
The Milwaukee 8 that HD is betting on for their future was a big let down. We got stuck running I4 through Orlando, as Disney vomited out the day shift onto the Interstate. We spent about 40 minutes inching out way towards Tampa. Orindarily this would have been a bit of a pain, but once the big 107 inch got hot - there was no more neutral to be found - anywhere. So you had to sit there with the clutch (which I think was built by Mack) held in. You could reach across & switch hands, but you had to be quick. The motor had absolutely no power below 1500 rpm, which meant you had to rev it up over 2 grand before thinking about releasing the clutch or you fell flat on your face. Team that up with a really tall first gear & you spend a lot of time muttering S#!T! while trying to move the bike slowly. When it did stall - good luck finding neutral to start it again, as people honked & flipped you off for holding up the traffic jam. Between 30 & 80 mph it ran like a top - a noisy top, but a top none the less. That thing has a ton of valve train noise. No wonder everyone gets pipes for them! Oh and if your legs are over about 32" long, your knees will be higher than your hips & your feet go to sleep after about 15 minutes.
OK so that’s my rant - just one man’s opinion (although my accomplice on the other bike was equally unimpressed). So this week HD announces that it’s closing one of it’s 3 manufacturing facilities & they’ve already dropped some other heritage cruiser lines from production. Lots of speculation about the future & what the changes mean. Does this go hand in hand with the demise of Victory, who shared the same V-twin cruiser market? One can arm-chair coach this all day.
My point here is (yes - I actually have a point) this - They’re not new to making motorcycles. They’ve been doing it for 100+ years & made some good ones in the past. But at some point they finished the design & the modifications & the testing of these particular bikes & said “Yep, that’s as good as we can get it - we are going to release it proudly to the public with our brand on it - this is the summit of our technology.” It’s no secret that the market for big cruisers is shrinking & the money is going towards more adventure & multi-purpose bikes. If you’re going to rely on your name & a certain exhaust sound to carry the brand, rather than quality builds & models that are selling globally, it should be no surprise to anyone when the plants start to close.
A final thought. If I rode into my local HD dealer with my 98 Valkyrie to buy the bike I’d rented, they’d want me to bring along a suitcase full of cash & they’d immediately run the Honda over to a third party dealer, so it wasn’t soiling their lot. Time to wake up & smell the rice boys.
I say we each chip in a few bucks - buy a 15 year old Interstate with 250,000 on it & drop it off in Milwaukee - for free. Tell the guys to have a look - this is how it’s done ... it’s smooth... it’s mannered ... it’s comfortable ...it’s powerful ...it’s (still) reliable ... and most of all it’s fun.

[Hook#3287]

No doubt about it, that's a rant

Truthful, but still a rant, and exactly how I feel. 

The second to last HD I rode, left me stranded on that exact highway you're talking about back in 1998.

A rented Fat Boy that crapped out on I-4 at 1:00am.

The rental place scrapped up a Heritage somewhere for the rest of the rental contact during Biketoberfest.

Just about shook the fillings out of my teeth, but it made me decide to NOT but a HD.

That showed me the way to my first Valk, so got's to be thankful for that.

[GiG]

Let me start by saying that I'm not looking to start a good ole Harley stomp here...

Time to wake up & smell the rice boys.
I say we each chip in a few bucks - buy a 15 year old Interstate with 250,000 on it & drop it off in Milwaukee - for free. Tell the guys to have a look - this is how it’s done ... it’s smooth... it’s mannered ... it’s comfortable ...it’s powerful ...it’s (still) reliable ... and most of all it’s fun.

I have two Valkyries that fit that description.
I ain’t sellin.  

[Skinhead]

Couple of things.  I'm no fan of HD, nor am I an expert on them.  I agree with most of your complaints, but offer a few items for consideration.

1 HDs are air cooled and sitting in traffic in hot weather causes them to over heat, to conpensate for that, I believe they shut down the rear cylinder when they get hot to help prevent overheating.  That may explain the sluggish launch.  

2 Cable operated clutch - old tech, not sure why neutral goes away, but clutch effort could be reduced with hydraulics.

3 I rented a HD in NM a few years ago and was equally disappointed compared to the Valk, but was any of your valve noise spark knock?  HD's are designed to run on premium, renters tend to return them filled with regular to save a few bucks.  The bike I rented Spark knocked like crazy until the first fill with premium.

The Harley fans LOVE them, if I spent that much on one, I'd have a hard time bad mouthing it.  But, if that's what you like, so be it.

[GiG]

Couple of things.  I'm no fan of HD, nor am I an expert on them.  I agree with most of your complaints, but offer a few items for consideration.

1 HDs are air cooled and sitting in traffic in hot weather causes them to over heat, to conpensate for that, I believe they shut down the rear cylinder when they get hot to help prevent overheating.

Reminds me of your scenic parade route on US 25 in KY last year...
 

[Skinhead]

Couple of things.  I'm no fan of HD, nor am I an expert on them.  I agree with most of your complaints, but offer a few items for consideration.

1 HDs are air cooled and sitting in traffic in hot weather causes them to over heat, to conpensate for that, I believe they shut down the rear cylinder when they get hot to help prevent overheating.

Reminds me of your scenic parade route on US 25 in KY last year...
 

I thought that was your route...

[Tx Bohemian]

3 I rented a HD in NM a few years ago and was equally disappointed compared to the Valk, but was any of your valve noise spark knock?  HD's are designed to run on premium, renters tend to return them filled with regular to save a few bucks.  The bike I rented Spark knocked like crazy until the first fill with premium.

Darn!
How big are the tanks on these things?
How many bucks do they save by getting regular?

I always get at least the mid-grade fuel, Top grade if I know the bike will sit for awhile.

[Jess from VA]

My old 80" EVO ran better than those.  But after 10 years, once hot, you couldn't find neutral either, and the clutch was no joy to hold or to feather continually.  I'd simply cut off the engine at long stops, but it also occasionally wouldn't reliably restart when super hot either.  So it was the rock or the hard place.  What I eventually learned to do was when I saw stops coming, or long slow-and-go's, I'd shift into neutral while still rolling, which it did do reliably, and then practice my best balancing at uber slow speeds.  A work-around.

Face it, no motorcycle is any fun at all in bumper to bumper for long periods. It didn't take me long to figure that out with my (only) hog, it's also how I learned to lane split in CA, because the bike kept moving, not requiring hours' long Schwarzenegger clutch muscles (I don't have); my whole arm would start shaking.  But when running down the road it was a good bike.

After 18 years on it and a new Kawi Mean Streak at the end, which reminded me just how nice motorcycles can be, I finally saw the light and got my first Valk.

I spent a lot of years riding a hog with other hog riders (nice fellows).  Over the years, I have been asked many times, why I changed.  The best answer I had was .... I grew up.  That gets mixed reviews and a bunch of laughs.  My next best answer is... I grew up, and I moved up.  That also gets mixed reviews, but less laughs.  

Most of these guys are real riders, but they don't ride as much as we do. And after 6 years they get another new one.  They're married to the brand (and have the money to burn), and that's OK too.  I

[MP]

Paragraphs make a long story MUCH easier to read.

[Beardo]

I test rode a 17 Ultra Limited recently and couldn’t find neutral for the life of me either.

I wanted to like it. I really did.

Didn’t.  Put a deposit on an 18 Wing instead.

[J.Mencalice]

Harley Davidson Motorcycle Company is 115 years old and that is how their motorcycles perform...like a 115 year old motorcycle.
Always been junk, always will be junk.  Never owned one, never will.

Since the advent of the Honda CB750 in 1969, the superior technological motorcycle was introduced to the riding public and we have demanded better products since then.  The truly progressive manufacturers have responded on the development of street and racing machines to advance the reliability, comfort, and joy of traveling on two wheels.  Harley Davidson has refused to loosen their ultra-conservative approach to designing and building motorcycles for performance.  They sell a fantasy of ego, Brando, and Angels still into the 21st century; a prescription for disaster that they are reaping with gritted teeth and fixed jaws.

Their production will be gone with the wind within ten years.

[Westernbiker]

Harley Davidson Motorcycle Company is 115 years old and that is how their motorcycles perform...like a 115 year old motorcycle.
Always been junk, always will be junk.  Never owned one, never will.

Since the advent of the Honda CB750 in 1969, the superior technological motorcycle was introduced to the riding public and we have demanded better products since then.  The truly progressive manufacturers have responded on the development of street and racing machines to advance the reliability, comfort, and joy of traveling on two wheels.  Harley Davidson has refused to loosen their ultra-conservative approach to designing and building motorcycles for performance.  They sell a fantasy of ego, Brando, and Angels still into the 21st century; a prescription for disaster that they are reaping with gritted teeth and fixed jaws.

Their production will be gone with the wind within ten years.

I'm no way a Harley fan, never owned one, never will either but I do remember going to the bike drags about 10 years ago and Harley SMOKED the competition! 

[phideux]

I’m not a brand specific fan, I’ve ridden a bit of everything. Right now, besides the FatGirl, I have 2 Harley’s, a 75 IronHead And a 2006 FatBoy. They run hot on the summer but I’ve never had a problem finding neutral on either of them, neither one has ever left me stranded anywhere and they both have good power throughout the rpm range. Maybe the newer ones suck, don’t know, but I like mine.

[Robert]

Price, reliability, repair-ability, 2 cylinders, does not feel substantial were all the reasons I did not want to own a Harley. Plus the final draw was no alternator, and dealing with my sons connections to his stator that were oil soaked and loose.

All in all like the looks not impressed with the ride less impressed with 2 cylinders and the engineering or lack of.

All those reasons are what also fit the Valk, good engineering, good performance, 6 cylinders, separate alternator. All coupled with a 3 year warranty that I never used.

[KUGO]

This thread gave me a “déjà vu” moment that I thought I’d share. I, too, have experienced owning and/or riding many different makes over the past fifty-plus years and have enjoyed them all for the things that they each had that were enjoyable. In about 1990, I bought a used 1980 HD FLT bagger from a Chicago-area dealer that had customized it by taking off the trunk and “shield/fairing”, repainted it from the original metallic brown to a deep black (good choice), and then black-crinkle-powdercoated all the shiny bits but a savory few. Very unusual to see “murdered out” bikes back then, so it stood out. I enjoyed the bike, HD’s first 5-speed, and put a LOT of miles on it. Yeah, it got too hot if I went downtown Chicago during the few festivals that might entice me to deal with the cager-swarms, but in the far-west ‘burbs where I lived, you usually just pointed the bike westward, no matter where you wanted to end up. Again, a 1980 motorcycle that, after I had “personalized” it a bit more, did what I wanted and expected of it.
 
Fast-forward to September, 2016, little more than 16 months ago, and after getting the every-decade-or-so “gotta ride something new!” itch I go to my local Honda dealer where I live now, four hours south of Chicago. They had advertised a clean, used HD bagger, exactly thirty (30!) years newer than my old 1980. Went to check it out and test-ride. It was beautiful, a very dark gray bike, with reasonable miles and almost all of the same owner add-ons that I would have added myself, had I bought it new. Other than the asking price, which I thought a bit too high, I thought it was worth a test-ride.

I got on the bike and liked the feel of the riding position, I’d guess a 28” high seat, but I didn’t care for the handlebar-mounted fairing and how it felt while turning the front wheel (while at rest) nor it’s restricted view. (I’m 5’11” w/ a 32” inseam.) Started it up, sounded great, and I took it maybe 100’ down the straight private drive that led up to the dealership. They didn’t want me taking it any further without an escort. Guess my Caddy in their driveway wasn’t collateral-enough for them to trust me to come back. Turned it around and rode it back, pulled up to their door and looked down at the bike. I had a proverbial time-warp flashback to my old bike! It was IDENTICAL in switchgear and too many other things to list here. I immediately realized that, unless they lowered their price (which they wouldn’t do and ended up selling the bike, “at their number”, the next day) I was no longer interested in this bike. Why would I want to spend $12,000 on a “new” bike that simply duplicated my experiences of three decades ago! I couldn't think of one good reason. So I didn’t.

I’ll wrap this up. Had always wanted a six-cylinder bike, either Honda or BMW, to strip off the non-essentials and turn into my ultimate hot-rod bike. After my Harley experience at the Honda dealer, I started paying more attention to the new-for-2014 Valkyries on the used market. Found a nice black one online, completely unblemished with only 3500 adult miles at a Spyder 3-wheeler dealer in Woodstock, Illinois (five hours north) for just under $10,000, which included tax, license, shipping it the 250 miles in an enclosed trailer, plus the previous-owner-purchased Honda windshield, which I’ve since taken off. Oh, and the remainder of the warranty, which doesn’t expire until mid-June, ‘18. And I expect that, like Robert and many others, I won’t be needing to avail myself of Honda’s expensive services. (And I’d always thought that Harley dealerships/parts/service were pricey! Wow, talk about redistribution of wealth!! As they told me at the dealership when I inquired as to various expensive services and accessories, “Welcome to Mother Honda!”)

The bike arrived just in time for Christmas, 2016, as planned. However, when the driver opened the trailer door/ramp we saw that the tie-down straps had broken on the left side and the bike was on its right side, having fallen and then skidded across the aluminum corrugated tie-down strips running along the trailer floor. Probably been sliding since his first on-ramp from Woodstock, hours ago.
What happened at that point, I’ll leave for another thread. I apologize for the length of this reply as it is. Bottom line: could not be happier with my new bike. Best I’ve ever had, for SO many reasons. Do I miss the snarl of my Harley? Yeah, but just one of the many trade-offs is that when I cruise through quiet residential neighborhoods, even old(er) people out in their yards smile and wave. Didn’t always do that when riding the HD. The bike also draws small crowds at restaurant parking lots. After my “personalizing” it this past year, it says Honda NOWHERE, and they can’t quite figure out what it is. Fun! Great bike! Great Forum, too.

[Fazer]

I have no axe to grind with Harley, but I find it curious that they produce and market so many models.  You would have thought they would have learned something from GM.

[GiG]

I just, as in today, started work on a HD project that I suspect is intended for their rumored new electric bike. It could be on almost any model, though.
Not at liberty to divulge exactly what the project is, but it has NEVER been on ANY motorcycle before.
HD did not invent the technology, but they were extremely willing to embrace it at the Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas las week.
So there’S that nat

[Ramie]

My brother in-law is a big time Harley guy.  He sold his 99 ultra last year and bought a brand new Road Glide with all the bells and whistles he even replaced the mufflers. 

He ended up trading it in two months after he bought it for a Street Glide  after he put about 1500 miles on it. 

He said he tried all kinds of things but couldn't stand the way the wind hit him and his wife as they rode. 

Cost him a few thousand extra to make the deal but he's a loyal HD fan.

[Moonshot_1]

I just, as in today, started work on a HD project that I suspect is intended for their rumored new electric bike. It could be on almost any model, though.
Not at liberty to divulge exactly what the project is, but it has NEVER been on ANY motorcycle before.
HD did not invent the technology, but they were extremely willing to embrace it at the Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas las week.
So there’S that nat

It's warp drive isn't it!

[revks]

Harley dealers are useful. I walked into one last fall while out shopping for Valkyrie.
On a whim I stopped in and asked if they had anything other than a Harley. Low and behold in the back corner of the shop waiting for an out of state dealer to pick it up was the object of my desire. 2000 Valkyrie interstate with just the right amount of added bells and whistles.
Some poor fool traded it for a Harley. He must not have been a serious rider as it only had 52,000 on the clock. Now it is safely sheltered in my garage waiting the next sunny day without snow.

[Hook#3287]

Harley dealers are useful. I walked into one last fall while out shopping for Valkyrie.
On a whim I stopped in and asked if they had anything other than a Harley. Low and behold in the back corner of the shop waiting for an out of state dealer to pick it up was the object of my desire. 2000 Valkyrie interstate with just the right amount of added bells and whistles.
Some poor fool traded it for a Harley. He must not have been a serious rider as it only had 52,000 on the clock. Now it is safely sheltered in my garage waiting the next sunny day without snow.

Cool story, congratulations 

[MarkT]

I'm sure nearly all of us have a story like this one if we've been riding awhile:

My neighbor has 2 brothers in WI who came to visit last summer.  Both had trailered in brand-new late model Harleys.  I said I'd be glad to lead them on a front range foothills twisties ride as I know them better than just about anybody.  Having found these obscure excellent, no traffic twisty roads with help from Garmin.  Both bikes were under 10k miles and looked brand new.  I took them on this 157 mile ride:




Both Harleys broke down on the ride, one of them twice.  Bro1's clutch failed to disengage so he was yelling at us "DON'T STOP" at the top of Golden Gate Canyon right at the intersection with Peak-to-Peak Highway.  Of course we stopped.  Then broke out the tools to fix his broken clutch linkage.  Then on the return road to the casa, Sante Fe Dr, in HEAVY rush hour traffic, his bike wouldn't keep running in stop and go traffic.  Bro2's Harley had almost the exact same problem.  However they did like the ride, other than their travails.  Not keen my 120,000mile bike with more than ten times the miles of their Harleys has never broken.  They were shocked when I told them I'm running a car tire which lasts more than twice as long as a bike tire for less money and better traction.  And now they are visiting again - don't want to go ride again.  Guess they don't like their American Iron Legends being eclipsed by my Rice Grinders.

I've taken my accountant on several rides.  He insisted on buying a Harley for it's "investment" value, in spite of my warnings he was making a mistake.  It broke down on EVERY ride.  Turns out he couldn't get anything like what he thought they were worth.  He has two of them - got one for his SO too - which she abandoned riding it years ago.  Now both bikes have a half inch of dust on them, broken and sitting in a back corner of his barn.  They have a horse ranch out in Elbert County.   He doesn't much like hearing, I'm riding the same bikes now that I was before he bought his HD's.  That have never broken down.

[3fan4life]

While I'll gladly pick on any of my buddies that ride Harleys about their choice of steed, I can't say that I hate their bikes.

But, they certainly aren't for me.

One of my friend's Street Glide had to have the engine replaced with less than 10k miles.

Both cylinders had egged out.

The crazy thing was that Harley initially insisted that it wasn't "out of Spec".

He had purchased an extended warranty and after fighting for several months they did eventually put a new engine on it.

It would seem that their overheating problems are having other side effects.



In 2007 I rented a new Ultra Classic it was a pretty bike no doubt.



It wasn't a bad bike and kept up on the Interstate well enough.

There were two things that I didn't like:

1) It shook me to death every time I stopped at a redlight.

2) I felt like I was shifting myself to death riding up and down A1A. Everytime the speed limit went up or down 10 mph I had to find a different gear. 

[RDKLL]

I had a riding buddy a few years ago with a Kawasaki 1500 Nomad. The only reason he had the Kawi was because he could not afford an HD...anyway, every once in a while we would switch bikes because he LOVED my Valkyrie. He said that was a blast, the power, the sound, everything. So I said "why don't you buy one?" and his response? "Because it doesn't look like a Harley." I would bust his chops regularly because it was more important to look like a Harley, like his Nomad did, well more so than the Valkyrie anyway. I said that the throttle on his bike seemed more like a volume control than anything else. 

[old2soon]

My Senior Ride Captain-P G R-here in Missouri has a recent-in the teens of the 2000s-alaphbet soup model H/D. I do like the paint scheme on his ride though. BUT I did pull up behind him-he had lead-and reached out my left hand and put it on his M/C trunk at a light. I could barely keep my hand in contact cuz of the vibrations. Guy that does my M/C tire work in West Plains Mo is more a H/D specific repair shop. At times as I'm taking off my helmet at his place of business he will come out with some of his H/D ridin customers that have Not seen the nickel trick yet. After being accused of using "trick" nickels I now have those I demonstrate to supply the nickels. I especially enjoy the wives girlfriends reactions-after securing permission for them to ride with me-when they come back from the ride and the Ladies tell their men-we need to buy one of these!  As of yet none of the guys have gotten rid of the H/Ds even after Ws G/Fs suggestion. Da prez and I passed a large group of H/Ds on the way to Inzane at LaCrosse Wi. They all-H/Ds-sounded like they were laboring. Ross and I just rolled on more throttle. NO/NONE/NADA/ZERO gear change involved nor needed.  RIDE SAFE.

[ybnorml]

In the 8 years and 98k miles I owned my "99 Valk, I had more
mechanical and electrical issues/problems than I have had on my
"08 RoadGlide with 98k miles.........

[MarkT]

statistical anomaly.

[ybnorml]

Not at all....plenty of issues with the starters, drive shafts, radiators.....
Each company has it's share of problems / issues.
Seems the Goldwings have had their fair share of welded frames being of inferior quality...
over heating, and such.
H-D has had their own issues too.....

M/C problems / issues are not brand specific.

[Rams]

Never owned an HD, have never been interested in a V twin.   I ride with many friends who vibrate down the road with me.   .   I'm also not very impressed with the HD styling.    Having said that, don't really care what others ride.    If that is what stokes yer fire, so be it.

Been riding my Valkyrie for nine years and the only issues have been self induced.    Yeah, I need to leave the the wrench turning and modifications to those qualified to do such things apparently.    The good news is, I normally get it right the second time I fix whatever I previously fixed.     

Rams

[_Sheffjs_]

I Have no Harley experience but I do own a 800cc Drifter and 1500 Drifter I enjoy a lot and can safely use as a comparison. So no matter what, I always climb on one of my 1500 ladies and just gasp in amazement at what Honda did. The legacy Valks to me are untouchable. I would like to ride a new wing but I cant get excited over its looks.     

[Jess from VA]

I Have no Harley experience but I do own a 800cc Drifter and 1500 Drifter I enjoy a lot and can safely use as a comparison. So no matter what, I always climb on one of my 1500 ladies and just gasp in amazement at what Honda did. The legacy Valks to me are untouchable. I would like to ride a new wing but I cant get excited over its looks.

My Japanese Vtwins (Honda, Kawi, Yami) all did better than HD.  They were still Vtwins, but none leaked oil, or fried the stator/voltage regulator and other electrical issues every other year.  And you could find neutral in all of them.  And if you mistakenly hit the starter in gear, they didn't fly off the gas pump and cause a lot of excitement.

I like the looks of the new wing, but I can't get excited about the price.  And Honda or not, I'd let the new model year get ridden and see what if any kinks develop. I only buy used bikes anyway.  

[MarkT]

I have usually caused the problems with my Valks with my mods.  Generally if I do, I get it right the 2nd time, like Rams. I did have to replace a wheel bearing and a U-joint once. I prevented any known electrical issues before they happened - eg., powering the headlight with relays prevented any starter sw or hi-lo sw failures; adding a Dan-Marc and a Pingel prevented the petcock problems.  The Valk is quite robust once the known issues are addressed - no pervasive issues throughout the vehicle like Harley's nonexistant quality / poor engineering / deliberate designed-in cheapness.  I have the 1800 GW model with the most issues - 2002.  Like me and Rams, they needed a year or 2 to get it right.  Once the recalls and the welding was fixed on mine (which it didn't break, the welding was repaired before that happened - and mine never showed any of the recall issues, but the fixes were free so I had them done) - there have been no repeats of the problems, or new ones show up in 100k miles.  Unlike Harley.

Read this if you doubt Harley's designed-in POS paradigm:

http://www.jamesrussellpublishing.biz/beforeyoubuyharley.html

[ybnorml]

98k trouble free miles on my '08 R/G.....
Can't say the same for the '99 valk with 98k miles I owned.....
Just sayin'....ride what makes you happy.
Always going to find somebody to bash what ever they don't ride....

Haters going to hate....no biggie

[G-Man]

Oh and if your legs are over about 32" long, your knees will be higher than your hips & your feet go to sleep after about 15 minutes.

Funny, that's why I bought an 1100 ACE when I was shopping in 2002.  I really liked the Fatboy.  Then I sat on one and thought I was on a toy.  Yes, I could have spent anoth $3K - $4K to make it fit better, but when I sat on the ACE, I just felt like I had more room to start with.  And yes, I did put about $1K into into it to make it fit better.

But, if it weren't for trying on that first 1100 ACE, I never would have found my true love, my Valkyrie.

[MarkT]

And De Nile ain't just a river by the pyramids.  I go by the reports and stats - one flyer example is statistically meaningless if that is even the truth - don't have brand loyalty so much as I believe the vast numbers of reports as well as tons of magazine articles as well as Consumer Reports.  And now I would buy another example of a proven brand based on past experience of it's value / reliability even if I didn't have reports on the model in question - on both sides of the coin.  Won't buy a product with a history of poor quality / reports.  That goes for all of my big-ticket purchases - appliances, cars, cameras, computers and so on.  "Haters" comment is inappropriate and just wrong.  I'm OK with riding with others on American Iron and have many many times.  Unfortunately more often than not their bikes break down and that ruins the ride.  Harley's sound and look good - and you get to be in the clique.  And that's the end of their value to me.  You might get a better reception for your brand loyalty on a HD site - they'd love to hear some validating their mistake.  Sell that POS rice grinder and buy another HD. I have another neighbor who would like to buy it.   Personally I doubt both claims a HD had no failures while a Valk had a lot for the same owner, both bikes "with 98k miles" - two "flyers".  Based on my extensive experience and all the reports of others.  Though your example could be statistical anomalies rather than BS.  Or selective memory.

BTW Consumer Reports doesn't say HD is the worst bike in reliability.  BMW took that honor.  HD is second worst.

[ybnorml]

Doubt what you want, I don't give a rats ass....
My personal experience with 2 different bikes.....

[Crackerborn]

Doubt what you want, I don't give a rats ass....
My personal experience with 2 different bikes.....

I have owned several (30+) HD products from a '39 to 2012. None were new and every one required extensive work to make them road worthy. I am not bashing their product, just stating my experience. I once found them very profitable to put back on the road, not so much any more with the used market saturated with them. As you say, I don't give a rat's a$$ what you ride or think, I KNOW that I can take the 20 year old Big Girls to any destination and get there because I do. The most reliable HD I owned was a '98 Heritage Softail Classic. It went 1600 miles once before requiring more than standard maintenance. I change oil on the Big Girls between 3-4000 miles (Mobile One), rear end maintenance at 10,000 and then have to decide if there is some other something I should to do while they are on the jack.

[Rams]

I change oil on the Big Girls between 3-4000 miles (Mobile One), rear end maintenance at 10,000 and then have to decide if there is some other something I should to do while they are on the jack.

Well, I normally end up doing that cleaning and polishing thing.......   

Guess that's why she always looks ridden......   She's not on the jack very often.   

Rams

[Hook#3287]

The most reliable HD I owned was a '98 Heritage Softail Classic. It went 1600 miles once before requiring more than standard maintenance.

My buddy just sold his 98 Heritage he bought new.  Had 50k on her w/o any issues.

It was a great bike, he hated selling it, but can't ride anymore.

[Alpha Dog]

Bringing up the Heritage, HD recently redesigned the softail platform and have I believe 8 models based off this platform.  This past November they brought out an entirely new one I just found out about last week.  The Harley Davidson Sport Glide.

https://www.google.com/search?q=harley+davidson+sport+glide&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=vKeQSNTxEUHoXM%253A%252Cwy1BE7gx9pDNnM%252C_&usg=__yEFDQwWIYbOqfIT3mKIGDHwzbA0%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjx9fK8mp_ZAhWSylkKHWfMCMsQ9QEISzAD#imgrc=vKeQSNTxEUHoXM:

Last Thursday I popped into Piqua Harley Davidson to view and sit on it.  Fit great, the small fairing is larger than it looks in pics with option for 5 inch screen.  About 680 lbs I think.  The biker journalists like it a lot and say that 107 really works well, as it is, in this machine, and may be the best turning Harley ever.  I told salesman I would need floorboards, just small ones would be ok.  He had a desk lady spend 15 minutes looking to tell me what I already knew, Harley does not have that option yet.  I pointed out it is a standard Harley clevis and I would find a substitute when I got home, which I did in the aftermarket.  These retail at 18,500 to 19,000 for different color than black, but do come with ABS and cruise control.  I guess for a new Harley that is a good price.