Peace be with Broward, South Florida, and the rest of US

[G-Man]

Another mass murder by gun at a school.  How sad. 

 

[mrtlc]

Anybody doing this should be eliminated , immediately. No Trial  No Second Chance ,Just eliminated.

[The emperor has no clothes]

As I sit here watching the news about it, it makes me realize how much life has changed. They were saying that they have drills for this stuff. When I was in school we had stupid drills about a nuclear attack from the Russians. We never in a million years ever thought about something like this.

[hubcapsc]

I think the media needs to choose not to focus on
these shooters.

"The scumbag was caught", and then you never
hear anything else about them unless you go
sit at their trial.

-Mike

[The emperor has no clothes]

I think the media needs to choose not to focus on
these shooters.

"The scumbag was caught", and then you never
hear anything else about them unless you go
sit at their trial.

-Mike

There is just too much interest in trying to understand why they do it. I will admit I want to know why. But I understand your sentiment. We as a society seem to give them the attention they crave.

[NewValker]

The reason?
 
F-in CRAZY!

Craig

[The emperor has no clothes]

The reason?
 
F-in CRAZY!

Craig

I agree. But I think we can learn from them how to hopefully see the warning signs. And be able to stop them.

[Jess from VA]

Another white Hispanic.

Since 1976, the state has executed 95 convicted murderers, all at Florida State Prison.[1] As of February 8, 2018, 348 offenders are awaiting execution.

Good.  (except the awaiting part)

The hell with his details, I want the details on going in the front door with an AR.

[old2soon]

Much like lowlifes that molest Children-one and dead. After they are caught and incarcerated the ONLY people they ever again get to interact with are jailers and inmates. With 17 dead from this mass shooting in Florida the problem as I see it is the doer can only be executed once. THAT is a tragedy also. In my little corner of the world I Know we now have designated shooters in our school system and many Churches in the area including the Church I am a member of. GOD forgive me the thoughts I am having at this point in time. RIDE SAFE.

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

There was a time when just about every family in this country had a firearm. Around the same era, every town had a gallows somewhere where those convicted of murder, rape, or other truly ugly crimes were put to death, nearly immediately upon conviction. They didn't languish in prisons for years. They "paid" their debt right away. Often, with the townsfolk watching. That, people, is what's called a deterrent.

Were mistakes made? Injustices? Sure, as they still are today. Seems like a better system to me.

[Jess from VA]

There was a time when just about every family in this country had a firearm. Around the same era, every town had a gallows somewhere where those convicted of murder, rape, or other truly ugly crimes were put to death, nearly immediately upon conviction. They didn't languish in prisons for years. They "paid" their debt right away. Often, with the townsfolk watching. That, people, is what's called a deterrent.

Were mistakes made? Injustices? Sure, as they still are today. Seems like a better system to me.

That will never happen.  You will never (likely) be able to do away with (existing) criminal appeals through state courts, then federal courts, and appeals for clemency or pardon from the state or federal (presidential) authorities.  

But I believe all death sentence cases should immediately go to the head of the line, never in usual docket number order, through any and all appeals.  Appeals must be brought in a timely manner (or forfeited) and prosecution response just as timely.  Decisions on appeals or motions always go to the head of the line.  Time is built in to the system, but all death cases get priority at all stages.  And when you have cases where proof of guilt is absolute (no reasonable doubt of any kind), you have an expedited (shortened timelines) procedure to speed all death appeals even faster.  (But not for cases when there may be any real question as to guilt.)

Criminal justice, like child rearing, requires (relatively) immediate punishment to provide the best deterrent to the guilty and to all potential offenders.  Military (criminal) justice is run much better than civilian in the timeliness department, at all levels (and it is every bit as fair as civilian process).  

In my house, if a spanking was warranted, you got it by whichever parent observed your bad behavior, the second it was warranted, never at the end of the day when dad got home (after you had spent the entire day repenting as an angel, getting whacked then sent the wrong message).  Of course, mom was the daylong supervisor, so she got more practice, and was generally more enthusiastic about it than dad, (and the only one who ever used a penny loafer).  However, there came a time that I could outrun mom, but dad could not be outrun, and the awards really increased if you ran. It wasn't until Jr High I could beat dad (the former Marine) in a foot race (and not by a lot either), and my spanking days were over by then.  I really didn't get all that many because the ones I got were memorable, and improved my behavior every time.

The other thing about death cases languishing in the system for decades is that some few men actually do turn their lives around, even in prison, beyond doubt, and finish schooling, become model prisoners, atone to families, and truly are different men (after 20 odd years).  But they still owe their lives, and we should take their lives accordingly, but it a deterrent to no one, and shows fellow prisoners  that good behavior may get you nothing, and is rotten way to administer justice.    



      

[MarkT]

Not sure death is a deterrent.  A lot of these perps are suicidal.  And they are going to punish the world on their way out.  And gun control isn't the answer for many reasons.  I think best for now is armed staff or school police to take out the perp ASAP.

[cookiedough]

our small school has finally installed cameras a few years ago and during non-school mornings going in and right out of school around 3 p.m.,  the doors are locked and have to be beeped in.  Not so sure though the person sitting looking at the camera in the office will look too closely or ask the right questions since anyone can say I am here to see so and so kid,  just pick a kids name and pretty sure the staff at school will let him/her in.  Our school will probably never hire a security guard since so few kids under 25 per class K-12 school.

Metal detectors are a good idea but then that involves a security guard as well am sure since unless the detectors are somehow configured to only detect larger sized items like a handgun,  they will go off all the time.

[Gavin_Sons]

our small school has finally installed cameras a few years ago and during non-school mornings going in and right out of school around 3 p.m.,  the doors are locked and have to be beeped in.  Not so sure though the person sitting looking at the camera in the office will look too closely or ask the right questions since anyone can say I am here to see so and so kid,  just pick a kids name and pretty sure the staff at school will let him/her in.  Our school will probably never hire a security guard since so few kids under 25 per class K-12 school.

Metal detectors are a good idea but then that involves a security guard as well am sure since unless the detectors are somehow configured to only detect larger sized items like a handgun,  they will go off all the time.

Have the staff shuffling kids through detectors and looking in backpacks. yes it will take a little longer but would you rather have dead kids? No law that could ever be written would have stopped this. The democraps need to get over more gun laws and start enforcing the ones we already have. Everyone knew this kid might be an issue and no one did anything about it. I put a lot of the blame on the adults that knew he was a loose cannon and did not even try to get him help or report it to the authorities.

[Serk]

Few points:

The FBI had been warned about this one in September:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/fbi-warned-cruz-professional-school-shooter-plans-months-article-1.3822163

My kid's schools have locked doors you have to buzz in on. The doors are giant panes of glass. A few shots and those doors would be a pile of rubble one could easily step through. And then you have a large building full of defenseless kids with conveniently unarmed staff that are locked in place for the shooter to have their way with.

And in all this, let's remember this guy: (Unconfirmed, but multiple sources are reporting)



High school football coach Aaron Feis reportedly used his body as a human shield protecting the students. He was one of the first victims.

[Sorcerer]

Metal detectors are a feel good item at best. Yes they may catch a hand gun, pocket knife, scissors, table knife, fork. Those running them I would suspect are unarmed school staff. Even if you have a police resource officer stationed their. You have a chock point that is target rich. Case in point the Florida night club shooting. When every one receives a ribbon and are not allowed to know failure and given the tools to learn to deal with failure, this is what we are left with.

[michaelyoung254]

Metal detectors are a feel good item at best. Yes they may catch a hand gun, pocket knife, scissors, table knife, fork. Those running them I would suspect are unarmed school staff. Even if you have a police resource officer stationed their. You have a chock point that is target rich. Case in point the Florida night club shooting. When every one receives a ribbon and are not allowed to know failure and given the tools to learn to deal with failure, this is what we are left with.

You are absolutely correct! The metal detectors are nothing but a feel good item at best. I taught at a inner-city high school in Houston for a few years, and they were really nothing more than a joke. A typical school building will require numerous exits throughout the building in order to comply with fire code issues (as they should), and there's NO way to place metal detectors as well as personnel to operate ALL points of entry. Despite all of the efforts to use the metal detectors at main entry points, some guns still managed to make it in the building. I was there for two years, and there was probably 2 or 3 cases each year whereas a student was caught with a gun on campus. It was routine to see students who had went through the metal detectors simply going to a different part of the building, and opening a different door to let someone in. With nearly 2,000 students roaming the halls between classes, it's impossible to guard every door in order to prevent it.

[Wizzard]

I grew up in the 60's in rural Iowa and we all had trucks and most of them had a rifle in the back window.
Never ever was there a shooting! What changed?

[Serk]

What changed?

(Among MANY other factors)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990

[Wizzard]

What changed?

(Among MANY other factors)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990

Yep and solved the problem  NOT

[3fan4life]

Everyone knew this kid might be an issue and no one did anything about it. I put a lot of the blame on the adults that knew he was a loose cannon and did not even try to get him help or report it to the authorities.

This is the root of the problem.

Time and time again when something like this happens it turns out that the warning signs were there all along and NO-one could be bothered to do anything about it.

Until mental health issues are taken seriously and addressed in this country things like this will continue to happen.

It's time for all involved to quit blaming the guns and begin insisting on people taking personal responsibility for their actions.

[Roadog]

I grew up in the 60's in rural Iowa and we all had trucks and most of them had a rifle in the back window.
Never ever was there a shooting! What changed?

Godless parents raising Godless children in Godless homes .

Ride safe
Roadog

[Wizzard]

I grew up in the 60's in rural Iowa and we all had trucks and most of them had a rifle in the back window.
Never ever was there a shooting! What changed?

Godless parents raising Godless children in Godless homes .

Ride safe
Roadog

 

[Serk]

I grew up in the 60's in rural Iowa and we all had trucks and most of them had a rifle in the back window.
Never ever was there a shooting! What changed?

Godless parents raising Godless children in Godless homes .

Ride safe
Roadog

Godless parent raising Godless children in a Godless home here, and while I can't claim victory yet as they're still in school, I really don't think that's the problem.

Could argue parents not involved in their kid's lives, that I'd agree with.

(Although this shooter appears to have been an orphan (Initial unconfirmed reports that he was an orphan and his adoptive mom recently died), making the involvement level of his parents in his life a rather moot point, if true.)

[Wizzard]

I grew up in the 60's in rural Iowa and we all had trucks and most of them had a rifle in the back window.
Never ever was there a shooting! What changed?

Godless parents raising Godless children in Godless homes .

Ride safe
Roadog

Godless parent raising Godless children in a Godless home here, and while I can't claim victory yet as they're still in school, I really don't think that's the problem.

Could argue parents not involved in their kid's lives, that I'd agree with.

(Although this shooter appears to have been an orphan (Initial unconfirmed reports that he was an orphan and his adoptive mom recently died), making the involvement level of his parents in his life a rather moot point, if true.)

While i am not disagreeing with you,, where does our moral compass come from?

[Serk]

While i am not disagreeing with you,, where does our moral compass come from?

Could get into a deep philosophical discussion on the origins of morality, but it's quite easy to have morals without a religion handing out those morals... I instill what I see as a strong sense of morals to my kids, and try to live by them myself, although they're pretty simple - Don't hurt others, help others when you can pretty much sums it up.

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hopes of reward after death."
--Albert Einstein

But I'll fully buy in that lack of morality and ethics being taught at home is a contributing factor, I just don't buy that lack of God or religion necessarily leads to lack of morals.

[Wizzard]

While i am not disagreeing with you,, where does our moral compass come from?

Could get into a deep philosophical discussion on the origins of morality, but it's quite easy to have morals without a religion handing out those morals... I instill what I see as a strong sense of morals to my kids, and try to live by them myself, although they're pretty simple - Don't hurt others, help others when you can pretty much sums it up.

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hopes of reward after death."
--Albert Einstein

But I'll fully buy in that lack of morality and ethics being taught at home is a contributing factor, I just don't buy that lack of God or religion necessarily leads to lack of morals.

I will agree with you on religion. Don't like it. But from my experience light dispels dark,, and God is light to me.

[Reb]

As I sit here watching the news about it, it makes me realize how much life has changed. They were saying that they have drills for this stuff. When I was in school we had stupid drills about a nuclear attack from the Russians. We never in a million years ever thought about something like this.

We perform active shooter drills at my company for the same situations. It is a different world we live in today.

[Skinhead]

I in no way condone the shooters actions, but from what I have been hearing in this case, this kid had a rough go of it, with the adoption and loss of parents, as have many others.  But I've also heard he was an outcast and possibly bullied, again, as have many others.  But, if extreme bullying, ridicule, degradation, was a factor here, I think those doing the bullying deserve some of the blame.  I find it hard to believe this kid just woke up and said, I'm going to go whack 17 of my former classmates.  

The outcast theme seems to be a common thread in most of these events.  I don't claim all this to be fact or even relevant, just throwing it out there for discussion.  

[cookiedough]

all I know is as Reb said times have changed and from what I see, not for the better.

so sad to see this younger generation (and even some elders)  loose their mind enough to just go into a random shooting like this.

maybe it happened way back when growing up and the media never reported/shown it, but not likely.  My way of thinking is no one is in a normal mental state carrying any type of firearm into any school.  Pocket knives or baseball bats, maybe, but no guns.   Just doesn't make sense to a normal human being doing such a thing. 

People are messed up nowadays mentally..... 

[hubcapsc]

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hopes of reward after death."
--Albert Einstein


"a man should be indebted to his neighbors
Not for the reward of Heaven or fear of hellfire."
--Bob Dylan

For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me... Inasmuch as ye have
done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
--Jesus

Christian morals are motivated by the desire to serve Jesus, not by that other stuff...

-Mike