wham-bam thank you ma'am

[da prez]

   We left to take my brother home on Feb.4th. It started with freezing rain for a hundred miles. Just before Springfield Il. Dennis took over driving. Weather was pretty good. Thru St. Louis and into Missouri until we stopped for lunch. I took over driving and we got on black ice. Big traffic pile up on 44 in Rolla. We got off on 63 and went south. Still on ice.   Dropped Dennis at home in Willow Springs and headed north west towards Joplin. Found a hotel after 12 hours of driving ,11 of it on ice. I (we) saw at least a hundred accidents , a lot of them were suv's and 4X4's that passed us.  I went on to Tulsa the next morning. I went back home on Thursday and they were still pulling out the wrecks.
  I made it home without a scratch.
 Bon and I were going out for Valentine dinner . At the stop sign in front of the village hall police station , a woman short cut the turn and crashed into us. We think her car was totaled. I drove ours home. About 4 to 5 thousand in damage. Got in the truck and went out.  We were both ok but PO'ed.
                                   da prez and Bon

[cookiedough]

sometimes it pays to stay home even on Valentines Day and have a little fun at home....

what some suvs and bigger truck owners do not know and I have been guilty of it 100's of times as well is 4wd means little when these larger, more top heavy, vehicles stop worse and can corner worse than some smaller vehicles/cars even if using 4wd.

4wd means little if you cannot negotiate corners or come to a stop soon enough since going too fast in the first place.  Been guilty of it more than I should.

I will take a FWD vehicle with snow tires in winter as long as not deep snow over say 6-8 inches vs. a 4wd truck with so-so all season tires.  I can corner better and faster and brake quicker with FWD snow tires on smaller vehicle.

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

Glad you and Bon are OK.

Everything else is of little importance in the end.

[DirtyDan]

Glad you and Bon are OK.

Everything else is of little importance in the end.

+1

Dan

[scooperhsd]

sometimes it pays to stay home even on Valentines Day and have a little fun at home....

what some suvs and bigger truck owners do not know and I have been guilty of it 100's of times as well is 4wd means little when these larger, more top heavy, vehicles stop worse and can corner worse than some smaller vehicles/cars even if using 4wd.

4wd means little if you cannot negotiate corners or come to a stop soon enough since going too fast in the first place.  Been guilty of it more than I should.

I will take a FWD vehicle with snow tires in winter as long as not deep snow over say 6-8 inches vs. a 4wd truck with so-so all season tires.  I can corner better and faster and brake quicker with FWD snow tires on smaller vehicle.

Whenever it snows, we get lots of Billy Bobs going out in the 4WD trucks like nothing is different. Apparently, the notion that 4WD DOESNOT mean 4 wheel stop on crap has not sunk into these folks.  I generally prefer to stay home when possible in these circumstances - I can generally drive in about anything, but I'm not so sure about Billy Bobs and and his female equivalents.

Da Prez - +1 on you and your wife being OK. That's what is really important.

[Rams]

Was asked to deliver three one ton utility trucks to Inidianapolis on Monday but the money didn't get transferred as expected.   The requester wanted two trucks on Monday and the last one at their facility NLT Tuesday at noon.   This would have all been possible had the money transfer occurred as planned.   But that didn't happen so I took another truck to Dayton, OH.

As I was unloading the Dayton truck the Indy buyer called and told me the transfer was done and he needed those three trucks as previously requested.   Had to tell him that was no longer possible but I could (most likely) get one to him if, the weather cooperated.   So, I rushed back home (those that know me know I don't speed) but I did run up to the posted limits to get that load delivered.    Got there, loaded up and checked the weather forecast.    It was not favorable.    I might get to Indy but getting back home was very questionable.    Forecast called for freezing rain, icing and then snow.    Thought about it.

Called the customer and advised him that the risk outweighed the benefit and that I would not be arriving until the roads were clear.   He was not a happy camper.     He wanted those trucks and I understood why but, neither he nor I control Mother Nature.    Offered him the best options acceptable to me.    His choices were to work with me and Mother Nature or get someone else to deliver.   It simply wasn't worth the risk to me.

He accepted my best options.   Next day after I contacted both states DOTs and State Troopers and felt the roads were acceptable by 10:00 AM, I delivered the first truck.   I'm glad I delayed the haul.    I drove past at least thirty vehicles that were off in the ditch, stuck in the median or hung up on guard rails.  Saw five different tow trucks clearing vehicles off on the side of the roads.    Was able to deliver one that day and two the next.  It's rare that I don't make a delivery on time.    Sometimes you simply have to decide what's most important.   

I'm glad you made it home safely.   One should always ask themselves if this trip is really that important.

Rams

[solo1]

I'm glad that you are safe even though the car is damaged.

Some people who drive 4WD both in suv's and trucks think that they have the world by the arse on a downhill grade.  What they don't realize is that all wheel drive helps in going but does nothing for stopping.  Couple that with getting there in a hurry and tailgating and they find out that they can't stop on slippery stuff.

I have Blizzaks on all four wheels of my Mazda Six but I won't drive unless I have to.  I also like to think that I know the limits on my Mazda Six and the Miata.

Pepole are nuts in ice conditions. Many years ago, A guy in a peckerhead Studebaker slid into my Olds 88 at a t intersection while I was stopped. I saw him coming but I couldn't move quick enough.  He got out of his now wrecked Stude and asked me if I was DRINKING. A real head shaker!

[Wizzard]

I'm glad that you are safe even though the car is damaged.

Some people who drive 4WD both in suv's and trucks think that they have the world by the arse on a downhill grade.  What they don't realize is that all wheel drive helps in going but does nothing for stopping.  Couple that with getting there in a hurry and tailgating and they find out that they can't stop on slippery stuff.

I have Blizzaks on all four wheels of my Mazda Six but I won't drive unless I have to.  I also like to think that I know the limits on my Mazda Six and the Miata.

Pepole are nuts in ice conditions. Many years ago, A guy in a peckerhead Studebaker slid into my Olds 88 at a t intersection while I was stopped. I saw him coming but I couldn't move quick enough.  He got out of his now wrecked Stude and asked me if I was DRINKING. A real head shaker!

Those Blizzaks  are the best winter tire ever made. Way above all the rest.

[old2soon]

I used ta drive in most bad weather conditions but as I aged I got a tad mite smarter. I was iced in here for a couple days last weekend. Didn't go to Church as I just did NOT want to take a chance on someone else's lack of driving expertise. Being retired do have certain advantages. Unless the road or highway is shutdown I know I am capable of getting from point a to point b in my current vehicle-cage-because I have Good tires on it and It's front wheel drive and I grew up in the country north of Chicago and have driven all over this fair country of ours. The unknown factor that scares the living crap outa me in bad weather are the drivers that THINK-incorrectly of course-that they actually know what they are doing. While Ross was keeping us moving and both of us Really paying attention other-wuz gonna say drivers BUT that's just too cursed much credit-steering wheel holders and pedal pushers continued to pass us and generally in a mile or two we grinned at each other as the dumb asses were sideways in the center media or off in the toulies on the right.  Even in those icy slicker conditions some idjits still insisted-while holding the steering wheel-on texting and some such!  When my Brother called me and informed me of what had transpired THAT close to home I was temporarily at a loss fer words. Just Happy Ross and Bonnie are okey dokey and no need of medical services. Their cage was pristine prior to the encounter. RIDE SAFE.

[northernvalk]

4X4 plus studded winter tires  Makes winter fun!!!!

[scooperhsd]

4X4 plus studded winter tires  Makes winter fun!!!!

If the studs are road-legal where you drive.... 

[f6john]

Well darn, hope this is not catching, just two hours ago this car was virtually perfect,



Wife is fine, only her second accident in almost 40 years of driving with the first being the deers fault! With all that damage, the airbag didn’t blow. This was a fairly low speed impact so I am convinced that the newer cars are designed to sacrifice themselves to protect the occupants. Other driver complaining but walking around and both cars left under their own power. All in all about the best outcome under the circumstances.

[Rams]

John,
Sure am glad no one was (apparently) injured.   Be safe out there....

Rams

[Jess from VA]

Whenever it snows, we get lots of Billy Bobs going out in the 4WD trucks like nothing is different.

They're here in VA too.  It is my experience that many who can afford the high cost of new or nearly new big four wheel drive trucks and SUVs, have relatively limited experience actually practicing on what four wheel drive will do for them.  Having paid the money, they push the 4WD button once or twice a year, and believe they are suddenly invincible, and drive accordingly.

It is always amusing to me to see how many new 4WD SUVs and trucks are in the ditch during and after ice storms. The proof is in the pudding.

In the final analysis, money is not a substitute for brains.  On the upside, most at least have good insurance.  And good insurance may indeed be a good substitute for brains.   

[scooperhsd]

Whenever it snows, we get lots of Billy Bobs going out in the 4WD trucks like nothing is different.

They're here in VA too.  It is my experience that many who can afford the high cost of new or nearly new big four wheel drive trucks and SUVs, have relatively limited experience actually practicing on what four wheel drive will do for them.  Having paid the money, they push the 4WD button once or twice a year, and believe they are suddenly invincible, and drive accordingly.

It is always amusing to me to see how many new 4WD SUVs and trucks are in the ditch during and after ice storms. The proof is in the pudding.

In the final analysis, money is not a substitute for brains.  On the upside, most at least have good insurance.  And good insurance may indeed be a good substitute for brains.   

I think Billy Bob and his sister Dangerous Doris are residents in many locations  ( Not to be confused with any specific Doris )

[Michvalk]

I think 4 wheel drive just allows you to get deeper into the crap, before you get stuck

[old2soon]

4 wheel drive rear wheel drive only front wheel drive only are ALL limited to coefficient of traction-friction if you will. I've seen studies that under certain conditions on packed snow or ice the tires are actually riding on a thin film of water. Growing up and learning to drive in Illinois close to Wisconsin I learned/discovered at an early age how to control a slide or do complete donuts. THAT discovery/learning curve helped me learn/train myself to NOT be afraid when the car lost traction because I was pushing the limits of the available traction of the tires and the slick surface on which I was traveling. This controlled slide stuff helped me when I climbed into my first dirt track car. The ice and dirt track training is used by me to this day. I've ridden with other people that have slid out and I just sit there cool calm collected til we finally come to rest-SOMEWHERE.  Whether I am a passenger or the one at the controls the ONE thing I can NOT control is other peoples actions or reactions. Hence the CHOICE to stay home when the weather goes totally delta sierra. Unless of course my Brother has decided it are time fer me to go home!  RIDE SAFE.

[MarkT]

As O2S said - there IS additional control available with some 4WD vehicles if one learns to use it by dirt track and icy parking lot practice.  I'm talking about manual transmission 4X4's w/o ABS.  Yes I can 4-wheel drift in control on dry or slippery conditions and will not buy an automatic transmission or 2wd vehicle for my personal ride. Any more, not getting ABS is generally not an option but sometimes it can be disabled.  I can tell you of times that all around me were spinning out of control on black ice and heading for the ditch when I just continued on my way.  Lots of idiots are not only driving beyond their ability with impunity (and texting) but beyond the vehicle's ability assuming they have Parnelli Jones's skill.  Interesting to watch youtube videos of sliding out of control snow crashers who just freeze on the brakes and slide into whatever object is in their trajectory - with no steering control at all.  I'm yelling at them GET OFF THE BRAKES like that makes a difference.

BTW I grew up and learned to drive on ice in WI as well.  All of my cages have been 4-by manuals since '78. Not counting the used Mustank I got from my sister in '86.

[Bigwolf]

Da Prez,  I know your pain.  I have been hit a few times on icy roads because some auto herder tried to take my space.  Several other times I have managed to complete a successful evasive maneuver in spite of the limited traction.  It is the pits to have your vehicle busted up through no fault of your own but at least you and Bon are not physically hurt.

Quoting old2soon: "4 wheel drive rear wheel drive only front wheel drive only are ALL limited to coefficient of traction-friction if you will. I've seen studies that under certain conditions on packed snow or ice the tires are actually riding on a thin film of water. Growing up and learning to drive in Illinois close to Wisconsin I learned/discovered at an early age how to control a slide or do complete donuts. THAT discovery/learning curve helped me learn/train myself to NOT be afraid when the car lost traction because I was pushing the limits of the available traction of the tires and the slick surface on which I was traveling. This controlled slide stuff helped me when I climbed into my first dirt track car. The ice and dirt track training is used by me to this day".
My experience has been much the same although I grew up in and around Morgantown, WV.  We got a fair amount of lake effect snow there.  The main deciding factor is the nut on the steering wheel as you know.  At one time I raced off road obstacle course with a CJ5 containing a 400 small block.  It be a lot of fun to play and a steering brake will turn one on a dime when the steering wheel is useless.  One of the troubles of 4wd is that the steering will often wash out.

Quoting jess from VA: "Whenever it snows, we get lots of Billy Bobs going out in the 4WD trucks like nothing is different.

They're here in VA too.  It is my experience that many who can afford the high cost of new or nearly new big four wheel drive trucks and SUVs, have relatively limited experience actually practicing on what four wheel drive will do for them.  Having paid the money, they push the 4WD button once or twice a year, and believe they are suddenly invincible, and drive accordingly.

It is always amusing to me to see how many new 4WD SUVs and trucks are in the ditch during and after ice storms. The proof is in the pudding."
I think part of this problem came from 4wd advertisements showing that particular vehicle running rapidly through snow and ice with a very small (fine print or very low tone) disclaimer that "this is a professional driver on a closed course".  Few people ever hear that disclaimer.  Of course some people would take that to mean that if they have said vehicle they will not have to slow down for nasty weather.  It is kinda sad really.  And dangerous to everyone on the road.  It is these people that make me hesitate to venture out when it is slick.

Bigwolf
Apparently blue does not stand out well from the background.....fixed it.

[Farside]

 Sorry to hear about the accident after your long journey thru some really difficult driving where you'd of thought the conditions were very favorable.  Then you get back and BANG!  Glad you two weren't hurt.  

Wow is it my eyes or is that blue print a killer to read?  ??? I couldn't continue to look.  

[Jess from VA]

JFYI, when any print is hard to read, just left click and drag the cursor through the whole post, and suddenly, it's readable.  

[Willow]

JFYI, when any print is hard to read, just left click and drag the cursor through the whole post, and suddenly, it's readable.  

Otherwise you can go to your Profile and under Look and Layout Preferences you can select Endless Multicolor as your theme.  It gives you more flexibility and a white background.  I find the default theme difficult to read under almost all conditions.

[Tailgate Tommy]

Ross - glad you and Bonnie re ok. Hope you weren't in her BMW! I remember those Illinois drivers!

[scooperhsd]

JFYI, when any print is hard to read, just left click and drag the cursor through the whole post, and suddenly, it's readable.   

Otherwise you can go to your Profile and under Look and Layout Preferences you can select Endless Multicolor as your theme.  It gives you more flexibility and a white background.  I find the default theme difficult to read under almost all conditions.

Oh this endless Multicolor is just what I've been wanting !! Thanks for pointing that out !

[da prez]

Tom.  It was the VW we just bought. I guess it has been christened. Getting the estimate today.

         da prez

[northernvalk]

4X4 plus studded winter tires  Makes winter fun!!!!

If the studs are road-legal where you drive.... 

100% legal here in Northern Ontario.  Also, new tire studs are a lot different than the old style. It is fun going to areas where they are not legal and showing people!