Dems admit ethanol mandate failed

[98valk]

https://noqreport.com/2018/03/12/good-news-dems-admit-ethanol-mandate-failed-bad-news-trump-promised-save/

Created as a means to combat so-called climate change, the RFS required that ever-increasing amounts of ethanol be blended into gasoline. And despite documented evidence of ethanol's damage to consumers and the environment, the RFS became little more than another taxpayer-subsidized, crony-capitalist, corporate-welfare program where the federal government picks the winners (Big Corn) and the losers (everyone else).

In a sort of good news/bad news announcement last week, key Democrats behind the biofuel push contained in the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 announced that they had "made a mistake" with the ethanol mandate, and they introduced new legislation to fix it.

"The law hasn't worked out as we intended," said former California Congressman and Chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee Henry Waxman. Following a joint call with reporters, Waxman joined current members of Congress, Rep. Peter Welch (D-VT) and Sen Tom Udall (D-NM), to introduce legislation that will phase out corn-based ethanol.
Speaking for the group, Welch said:

    "We've now had more than a decade of experience with it, and it had the best of intentions. But it has turned out to be a well-intended flop.

    "It actually doesn't cut down on greenhouse gas emissions, it expands them. It's had a significant impact on overplanting in fragile areas of the corn belt. It has had significant impacts on small engines. And it's also had a significant impact on feed prices ... and there is a lot of evidence it has increased the cost of food."

[Jess from VA]

That is an amazing admission, by any politician of any party.

Almost worth framing.

Be nice if they sh!tcan ethanol by the end of the year, and not the decade.

It's still a 100 mile round trip for me to buy real gasoline.

[98valk]

That is an amazing admission, by any politician of any party.

Almost worth framing.

Be nice if they sh!tcan ethanol by the end of the year, and not the decade.

It's still a 100 mile round trip for me to buy real gasoline.

"and they introduced new legislation to fix it."

this is the scary thing, what are their disgusting plans? it will be good for them and bad for us.

[old2soon]

Can U spell-gubmint boondoggle? Weren't too long ago the gubmint was wantin 15% even AFTER All the automobile manufacturers said NO THAT won't work! When ZACKLY did politicians think they were smarter than the folks that actually Build the vehicles the politicians were attempting to regulate? Just from my cage and my Phatt Ghurl real world figures much better performance and much better M P Gs with pure gasoline versus the corn polluted crapola. Sweepin out the cobwebs but seem to remember alky modifieds were running stainless steel fuel lines and such in order to Not have the fuel delivery system eaten by the alky. RIDE SAFE.

[MarkT]

That is an amazing admission, by any politician of any party.

Almost worth framing.

Be nice if they sh!tcan ethanol by the end of the year, and not the decade.

It's still a 100 mile round trip for me to buy real gasoline.

I'm concerned how they will roll this back while of course saving face to protect their credibility for their next stupid mandate.

I lucked out, the closest gas station to the casa has pure gas.  I haven't bought ethanol for some time.

[Jess from VA]

I think we should find the main five guys whose idea this was to begin with, and waterboard them with corn gas.

You know, to set an example.

[Atl-Jerry]

Just another glaring example that proves democrats are incapable of recognizing a problem or crafting a solution.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Just another glaring example that proves democrats are incapable of recognizing a problem or crafting a solution.

Uh...the title of the thread indicates otherwise. Also, didn't we have a Republican President in 2007 ?

[The emperor has no clothes]

That is an amazing admission, by any politician of any party.

Almost worth framing.

Be nice if they sh!tcan ethanol by the end of the year, and not the decade.

It's still a 100 mile round trip for me to buy real gasoline.

Probably not as long as Iowa controls the first primary or caucus.

[scooperhsd]

I think we should find the main five guys whose idea this was to begin with, and waterboard them with corn gas.

You know, to set an example.

Did you want to "accidently" put a lit match in the puddles underneath them too ?

[..]

Just another glaring example that proves democrats are incapable of recognizing a problem or crafting a solution.

Uh...the title of the thread indicates otherwise. Also, didn't we have a Republican President in 2007 ?

In 2007 the Democrats ran both the House and the Senate.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Just another glaring example that proves democrats are incapable of recognizing a problem or crafting a solution.

Uh...the title of the thread indicates otherwise. Also, didn't we have a Republican President in 2007 ?

In 2007 the Democrats ran both the House and the Senate.

The point is, this isn't really a partisan issue. Both parties were for it. At least now SOME of the Democrats admit it is not working as planned. I'm not sure if any Republicans have done the same.

[Earl43P]

SNIP

It's still a 100 mile round trip for me to buy real gasoline.

Check the pumps at your closest BJ' s.
I just found pure 89 or 91 (I forget which) in Fredericksburg.

[Jess from VA]

SNIP

It's still a 100 mile round trip for me to buy real gasoline.

Check the pumps at your closest BJ' s.
I just found pure 89 or 91 (I forget which) in Fredericksburg.

Thanks, Earl.  

But Fredricksburg is still 68 mi one way for me. (and I risk the daily jams on I-95)

I just checked pure-gas.org (no corn gas stations), and found 3 around Fredricksburg.

https://www.pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html  (zoom in to your area)

But I also found a new one over the Wilson bridge into MD, only 17 miles away, but it's an Aviation Company, and I wonder if it is untaxed and they won't sell.  Or if it's only 100 octane av gas and expensive as hell.  I'll have to call.  I hate going to MD.

The puregas listings change all the time, and I have to remember to look.  Used to be, the closest place was clear out in Front Royal.

[98valk]

Just another glaring example that proves democrats are incapable of recognizing a problem or crafting a solution.

Uh...the title of the thread indicates otherwise. Also, didn't we have a Republican President in 2007 ?

In 2007 the Democrats ran both the House and the Senate.

The point is, this isn't really a partisan issue. Both parties were for it. At least now SOME of the Democrats admit it is not working as planned. I'm not sure if any Republicans have done the same.

liar,  
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll1140.xml    221 dems for,  174 repubs against

[Earl43P]

SNIP

It's still a 100 mile round trip for me to buy real gasoline.

Check the pumps at your closest BJ' s.
I just found pure 89 or 91 (I forget which) in Fredericksburg.

Thanks, Earl.  

But Fredricksburg is still 68 mi one way for me. (and I risk the daily jams on I-95)

I just checked pure-gas.org (no corn gas stations), and found 3 around Fredricksburg.

https://www.pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html  (zoom in to your area)

But I also found a new one over the Wilson bridge into MD, only 17 miles away, but it's an Aviation Company, and I wonder if it is untaxed and they won't sell.  Or if it's only 100 octane av gas and expensive as hell.  I'll have to call.  I hate going to MD.

The puregas listings change all the time, and I have to remember to look.  Used to be, the closest place was clear out in Front Royal.

Yep, you can skip the trip to MD, that is AvGas, 107 octane.

You just holler when you're up for a jaunt to Front Royal. Nice snaky roads thereabouts.

I have to park the Valk for a few, (the front bead is seeping, loses ~15 lbs every other day) but I can take the commuter, my ST1300.

[Jess from VA]

Yep, you can skip the trip to MD, that is AvGas, 107 octane.

You just holler when you're up for a jaunt to Front Royal. Nice snaky roads thereabouts.



That is doable (or anyplace really).  But I want it to warm up some first. 

[Hooter]

Used to have to go only 15 miles north to get real gas.  A mom and pop convenience store with pumps by a lake just put in a "real gas"  pump only 4 miles north of me. Makes me happy.

[northernvalk]

It's about trucking time!!!!

[Wizzard]

I have been burning ethanol in my truck and my bike since it first came out. Never had a problem one with any of it. My current truck burns them all. Only thing I notice is slightly less gas mileage with ethanol but that's it.

[northernvalk]

I have been burning ethanol in my truck and my bike since it first came out. Never had a problem one with any of it. My current truck burns them all. Only thing I notice is slightly less gas mileage with ethanol but that's it.

So no advantage and a noticeable disadvantage.....That's not a problem? Your Carbs are a ticking time bomb with corn gas........

[Wizzard]

Well I guess that is your opinion. After 10 years running my carbs are fine. I know others with the same experience with their valk on ethanol.
And no,, the little less mileage is not a problem, Since I pay way less for gas. Today I paid 1.60 gal

[Willow]

I have been burning ethanol in my truck and my bike since it first came out. Never had a problem one with any of it. My current truck burns them all. Only thing I notice is slightly less gas mileage with ethanol but that's it.

So no advantage and a noticeable disadvantage.....That's not a problem? Your Carbs are a ticking time bomb with corn gas........

My experience matches the Wizzard's.  The difference in mileage is only noticeable if one very carefully measures each tankful.  An advantage is that it costs noticeably less.

I'm in favor of reversing the ethanol mandate but it's not the end of the world either way.

[Wizzard]

Likewise,, I have no opinion on the mandate. Makes no difference to me at all.

[Jess from VA]

I have 21 carburetors on my property. (12 in two bikes)

None of them likes corn gas on any long term (or even medium term) basis.

As I use my carburetored machinery regularly (like weekly), it runs OK with corn, but I can never leave it in machines for any time without worry about it going south and gumming up.  Constant treatment (in the can or the machine) is a PITA, keeping 15-20 gals on hand is problematic, and having to take machines to the lawnmower repair shop is expensive, and three of my machines are heavier than I can lift alone to take to the repair shop and I don't have a truck (except to borrow).  Having to remember to dump it out and clean the bowls at season end is a PITA. My repair shop tells me that at least 80% of their year-round work is carburetors and corn gas.  And of course, having a carb torn down and repaired often costs about the same as a new carb (more expensive parts, but less labor charge).

You think these all need new mufflers?




Fuel injection makes the problem disappear, but don't hold your breath for fuel injected mowers, chippers, blowers, whackers, chain saws, power washers, generators, or 1500 Valkyries.

[Wizzard]

I guess based on what you say,, I must ride my valk and drive my truck often enough it makes no diff.

[bagelboy]

Sounds like some of these politicians owe a few people for boat motor, lawnmower, motorcycle, and other small motor repairs. How do you think that one will go?

[northernvalk]

I have been burning ethanol in my truck and my bike since it first came out. Never had a problem one with any of it. My current truck burns them all. Only thing I notice is slightly less gas mileage with ethanol but that's it.

So no advantage and a noticeable disadvantage.....That's not a problem? Your Carbs are a ticking time bomb with corn gas........

My experience matches the Wizzard's.  The difference in mileage is only noticeable if one very carefully measures each tankful.  An advantage is that it costs noticeably less.

I'm in favor of reversing the ethanol mandate but it's not the end of the world either way.

That's because your corn gas is subsidized.....we pay the same for corn gas as non corn.  As for Carbs, it's not "my opinion" it's my experience. I have rebuilt at least 30 carbs in the last ten years that were eaten by corn gas.  We do have a seasonal country for the most part, so that does make it worse. 

[Wizzard]

I have been burning ethanol in my truck and my bike since it first came out. Never had a problem one with any of it. My current truck burns them all. Only thing I notice is slightly less gas mileage with ethanol but that's it.

So no advantage and a noticeable disadvantage.....That's not a problem? Your Carbs are a ticking time bomb with corn gas........

My experience matches the Wizzard's.  The difference in mileage is only noticeable if one very carefully measures each tankful.  An advantage is that it costs noticeably less.

I'm in favor of reversing the ethanol mandate but it's not the end of the world either way.

That's because your corn gas is subsidized.....we pay the same for corn gas as non corn.  As for Carbs, it's not "my opinion" it's my experience. I have rebuilt at least 30 carbs in the last ten years that were eaten by corn gas.  We do have a seasonal country for the most part, so that does make it worse. 

Like you ,, I base mine on experience, yours is your  opinion based on your experience, mine is based on my experience. You got to do what is right for you.

[..]

I guess based on what you say,, I must ride my valk and drive my truck often enough it makes no diff.

Does make a difference.

What year is your truck?

Do you ride all year round?

Do you use Stabil or another product?

[northernvalk]

I have been burning ethanol in my truck and my bike since it first came out. Never had a problem one with any of it. My current truck burns them all. Only thing I notice is slightly less gas mileage with ethanol but that's it.

So no advantage and a noticeable disadvantage.....That's not a problem? Your Carbs are a ticking time bomb with corn gas........

My experience matches the Wizzard's.  The difference in mileage is only noticeable if one very carefully measures each tankful.  An advantage is that it costs noticeably less.

I'm in favor of reversing the ethanol mandate but it's not the end of the world either way.

That's because your corn gas is subsidized.....we pay the same for corn gas as non corn.  As for Carbs, it's not "my opinion" it's my experience. I have rebuilt at least 30 carbs in the last ten years that were eaten by corn gas.  We do have a seasonal country for the most part, so that does make it worse. 

Like you ,, I base mine on experience, yours is your  opinion based on your experience, mine is based on my experience. You got to do what is right for you.

My "opinion" is based on experience AND science... to use layman's terms, alcohol plus certain substances=BAD, here is a great article
http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Ethanoluse.htm

[Wizzard]

I guess based on what you say,, I must ride my valk and drive my truck often enough it makes no diff.

Does make a difference.

What year is your truck?

Do you ride all year round?

Do you use Stabil or another product?

I use stabil in the bike in the winter
Truck is 2010 f150 king ranch flex fuel
I do start the bike up often and run it during the winter.

[Wizzard]

I have been burning ethanol in my truck and my bike since it first came out. Never had a problem one with any of it. My current truck burns them all. Only thing I notice is slightly less gas mileage with ethanol but that's it.

So no advantage and a noticeable disadvantage.....That's not a problem? Your Carbs are a ticking time bomb with corn gas........

My experience matches the Wizzard's.  The difference in mileage is only noticeable if one very carefully measures each tankful.  An advantage is that it costs noticeably less.

I'm in favor of reversing the ethanol mandate but it's not the end of the world either way.

That's because your corn gas is subsidized.....we pay the same for corn gas as non corn.  As for Carbs, it's not "my opinion" it's my experience. I have rebuilt at least 30 carbs in the last ten years that were eaten by corn gas.  We do have a seasonal country for the most part, so that does make it worse. 

Like you ,, I base mine on experience, yours is your  opinion based on your experience, mine is based on my experience. You got to do what is right for you.

My "opinion" is based on experience AND science... to use layman's terms, alcohol plus certain substances=BAD, here is a great article
http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Ethanoluse.htm

I guess based on that my carbs should have been bad long ago. Along with several friends bikes.

[..]

I guess based on what you say,, I must ride my valk and drive my truck often enough it makes no diff.

Does make a difference.

What year is your truck?

Do you ride all year round?

Do you use Stabil or another product?

I use stabil in the bike in the winter
Truck is 2010 f150 king ranch flex fuel
I do start the bike up often and run it during the winter.

Your truck doesn't have carbs. (Nice truck).

Stabil helps with carb related ethanol problems.

[Wizzard]

I guess based on what you say,, I must ride my valk and drive my truck often enough it makes no diff.

Does make a difference.

What year is your truck?

Do you ride all year round?

Do you use Stabil or another product?

I use stabil in the bike in the winter
Truck is 2010 f150 king ranch flex fuel
I do start the bike up often and run it during the winter.

Your truck doesn't have carbs. (Nice truck).

Stabil helps with carb related ethanol problems.

You are right, , forgot the truck does not have carbs. I love my truck.

I also put ethanol in all my small engine stuff,, chainsaw, lawmower, weed eater, leaf blower garden plow, and others,, but I always use stabil no matter what gas I put in. Maybe thats why I see no problems

[Willow]

I don't use Stabil or any other additive for storage.  I do occasionally run cleaner though my Valkyries when they are running.  I store my lawn mower over the winter with gasoline in the tank and start it without issue in the Spring.  I let my pickup ('97 Mazda) sit at times for weeks and it starts fine.  I've four Valkyries under my care.  Because I don't spread the experience as well as I should a couple of those Valkyries have been known to sit idle for months.

I don't doubt that some folks have trouble with their use of ethanol mixed fuel.  Maybe it has something to do with location or lack of humidity.  I do think that 10-15 percent ethanol gets blamed for a lot that it doesn't do.

I am not in favor of the continued use of ethanol in gasoline.  I guess I'm just not as worked up as some about how evil it is.

[MP]

Before ethanol ever existed, owners if small engines had to drain for winter, or use a stabile like product, or we risked having the carb gum up.
There was no alcohol in that fuel.
What caused them to gum up?
The varnishes in gasoline. Not alcohol.
Does alcohol make it worse?
Maybe. It might.
But what I see happening, is EVERY case of this blamed on the alcohol.
Some might well be.
However, the EXACT SAME PROBLEM EXISTED BEFORE alcohol was added.

[¿spoom]

Before ethanol ever existed, owners if small engines had to drain for winter, or use a stabile like product, or we risked having the carb gum up.
There was no alcohol in that fuel.
What caused them to gum up?
The varnishes in gasoline. Not alcohol.
Does alcohol make it worse?
Maybe. It might.
But what I see happening, is EVERY case of this blamed on the alcohol.
Some might well be.
However, the EXACT SAME PROBLEM EXISTED BEFORE alcohol was added.

Not true, the old gas didn't start going bad in the can in a week or two. We only had to use Stabil or similar when storing something for the season, not in every frakin' 5 gallon gas can used to fill small engines. I can bore some of the folks here with details of my personal experience with the gas in my area between Chicago & Milwaukee, but why bother. My house has never been hit by a tornado, so I don't believe they're really a problem worth whining about.

[Wizzard]

I have had ethanol sit in a can for months and put in my lawnmower and never had a problem. I was in the lawn equipment business for 18 years. Saw all kinds of engines that gas ruined sitting. All you had to do was open the cap and smell it and you knew it was bad. Many problems with old gas in carbs, and especially 2 cycle engines were very sensitive to sitting for months. The gas would evaporate in the carb bowl and leave a sticky oil residue that plugged up the jets. There are just as many problems with Gas as there is with ethanol in my experience.

[northernvalk]

Guys, it's the materials that are used in the carb manufacturing....if you read the article you would see that. If you have been lucky..then your carbs do not have the "bad" materials in them. This is science, not opinion. I also use fuel stabilizer, mostly for octane maintenance. Do what you want, but science is science...find some of the materials mentioned and test them for yourself..........