Installed ECT mod.....nothing.....nada!

[nogrey]

I hope this doesn't end up being too long winded, but I'm at the end of my rope here. I currently have 2 Valkyries in my garage. Over the years, I've had many, many valks that I've bought, fixed up and sold. Mostly to friends who are now enthusiests.
So, here's the thing. Seems like every other valk I ride (including the one I just bought in my garage) has twice the spirit of my '97.  The 2000 I just bought (with a friend) to fix and sell has so much more spirit that I'm absolutely befuddled as to why my '97 seems so "tame" by comparison. I have done all I know to make it spunkier. It starts and purs like a kitty kat. Idle is smooth and sounds wonderful. Gets up to 48mpg on trips. No major mods. K&N air filter. Cobra pipes. And just today, the ECT mod. And thats what has me stumped. The 2000 in my garage has a 6 degree trigger wheel. I thought, perhaps that's the difference. So I installed the ECT mod, having heard it was a better choice. Well, after installing it, I see absolutely no difference in performance. I am so perplexed.
I've checked all I can think of. Most recently, compression. Sent the results to Big BF, who says it's fine. Timing belt tension is fine. Plugs look perfect. If it weren't for the fact that the 2000 is already sold, I'd probably sell the '97. I've been fighting this issue for about 5 years and just can't think of anything to do. Don't get me wrong, my '97 is a beautiful machine. It's just missing something.
Suggestions, questions, input appreciated.
Thanks.

[Pete]

At 48 MPG on trips sounds like it may be very lean??
Best I have ever seen is 42 MPG on a 1999 Interstate.

[nogrey]

Didn't mean to overstate. It varies widely, with 35 to 39 being more common. As I said, the plugs don't indicate lean condition. Bike just doesn't have any "spunk". If that makes sense.

[John Schmidt]

Check if the trigger wheel has already been changed, if so then adding the ECT mod may be too great an overall advance.....assuming I understood your setup. Or....you may have the mod installed incorrectly, wouldn't be the first person to do that. Curious to know what the cure is.

[Kunkies]

You're not alone. 

I've had 2, 2000 GL1500CT Valkyrie Tourers.  The first one was like a wild stallion, torque galore and fast, fast, fast.  My current 2000, GL1500CT is great but nothing like the pep and torque my previous Valk' would produce...I also, have not been able to figure it out

[Pete]

Didn't mean to overstate. It varies widely, with 35 to 39 being more common. As I said, the plugs don't indicate lean condition. Bike just doesn't have any "spunk". If that makes sense.

35 to 39 is what I normally see on a standard ridden conservatively. Sorry no other ideas other than spark timing or compression.

Might want to check cam timing, as that could be the issue.
If valve lash is not set correctly that can make a bike run lazy if to tight.

[nogrey]

Cam timing. I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but when I changed the belts about 7K miles ago, there was no change in the way it handled. I was in there just yesterday comparing the timing wheel against the 2000's timing wheel. That's how I discovered the 2000 had a 6 degree. Mine appears to be stock. Now valves, that may be worth taking a look at. Will check the valve settings and report back.
As far as running lean, I had 38 slow jets in it for about a year. Only difference I noted was poorer gas mileage. It's funny how persnickety these beasts can be. As far as I know, this bike has always run this way. Since I first got it at 2500mi.
I bought the ECT mod as a plug and play from someone here on the VRCC. I guess I hadn't considered the possibility of it being wrong somehow. The fact it changed nothing made me wonder about the ICM.

[indybobm]

Did it have the cobras on it when you bought it or did you add them?

[Avanti]

Do some research on the California cams.

[Pete]

Cam timing. I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but when I changed the belts about 7K miles ago, there was no change in the way it handled.

Are the cams correctly time to the crankshaft. Do the cams and crankshaft timing marks align properly? Refer to the service manual for correct procedure.

Even if all marks align properly it may be wise to do a cam degree procedure to ensure that production tolerances do not stack up unfavorably. This involves finding top dead center on number 1 cylinder (and 2) and verifying that the associated cam is in the proper position.

[Pete]

Are you comparing a bike with stock exhaust to a bike with modified exhaust?
If so that could be the issue if the carbs were not checked and corrected when the exhaust was changed.

[Chrisj CMA]

I have two '97 Valkyries. One will give the impression it is more peppy because it fires off the line better. However, that bike doesn't have the top end (passing) power the other one has. I have posted about this before. I think Bruce (BF) put an Interstate ICM in.  That could explain the increased low end grunt.

Have you tried swapping ICM modules?

Might be a dumb question because I don't know what an ECT mod is

[JC19]

As stated earlier, you might want to check the cams. My riding buddy has a 2003 standard bought new in Minnesota but upon inspection was found to have California cams. He changed them out, along with the whole Attic Rat treatment, and increase in power was dramatic. I know Attic Rat's work was the significant part of that, but even he was perplexed as to why the CA cams were in there.

[98valk]

Cam timing. I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but when I changed the belts about 7K miles ago, there was no change in the way it handled. I was in there just yesterday comparing the timing wheel against the 2000's timing wheel. That's how I discovered the 2000 had a 6 degree. Mine appears to be stock. Now valves, that may be worth taking a look at. Will check the valve settings and report back.
As far as running lean, I had 38 slow jets in it for about a year. Only difference I noted was poorer gas mileage. It's funny how persnickety these beasts can be. As far as I know, this bike has always run this way. Since I first got it at 2500mi.
I bought the ECT mod as a plug and play from someone here on the VRCC. I guess I hadn't considered the possibility of it being wrong somehow. The fact it changed nothing made me wonder about the ICM.

38 pilot jets are too rich. put the 35 PJs back in. then open up the mixture screws 2.5 to 3 open. then hold on.  don't use premium. only regular.

[98valk]

As stated earlier, you might want to check the cams. My riding buddy has a 2003 standard bought new in Minnesota but upon inspection was found to have California cams. He changed them out, along with the whole Attic Rat treatment, and increase in power was dramatic. I know Attic Rat's work was the significant part of that, but even he was perplexed as to why the CA cams were in there.

emissions and Honda was just doing what ever. I found one time a '97 non-CA bike that had the R2 emissions cams. per magazine reports and others ALL '98 bikes had the R2 cams and why dynos showed 10HP and Ftlbs less.

[bassman]

I have two '97 Valkyries. One will give the impression it is more peppy because it fires off the line better. However, that bike doesn't have the top end (passing) power the other one has. I have posted about this before. I think Bruce (BF) put an Interstate ICM in.  That could explain the increased low end grunt.

Have you tried swapping ICM modules?

Might be a dumb question because I don't know what an ECT mod is

http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/ect-mod.htm

[Chrisj CMA]

Thanks bassman

[Challenger]

Did your ECT mod come with a potentiometer  and if so does the RPM increase as you turn the knob? Could be a bad wire from the temp sender to the ECM. Just for comparison, A buddy and I both had 2000 Std's, we swapped rides many times, We both commented on how his felt sluggish compared to mine. But on 20 mph and 50 mph side by side roll on they were perfectly matched. Go figure.

[bassman]

Thanks bassman

[Punisher]

Put the stock pipes back on.   You are losing too much back pressure with those Cobra's and it is costing you horsepower (6-10 from what I've read) unless you are willing to do the proper jetting which will give the horsepower back but not the gas mileage.

Honda does exhaust good but I do love the sound of the Cobra's.

Or, if you are willing to spend the bucks, send it to Attic Rat and get the works.    Everyone raves about the improvements he makes.

Have it dyno tested and the exhaust analyzed to see where it is today.

[nogrey]

Did it have the cobras on it when you bought it or did you add them?

Just put the cobras on this week. I know they don't help, but have had stock pipes since day one and wanted something different. Did not make a noticeable difference in performance.

[nogrey]

Put the stock pipes back on.   You are losing too much back pressure with those Cobra's and it is costing you horsepower (6-10 from what I've read) unless you are willing to do the proper jetting which will give the horsepower back but not the gas mileage.

Honda does exhaust good but I do love the sound of the Cobra's.

Or, if you are willing to spend the bucks, send it to Attic Rat and get the works.    Everyone raves about the improvements he makes.

Have it dyno tested and the exhaust analyzed to see where it is today.

You know, I've been toying with that idea for several years. Have been in a conversation with him recently. I think I am going to pull the trigger and do just that.  The cobras have baffles in them. My understanding was that rejetting was not necessary. Funny thing is, the 2000 I've been camparing it to, has those two brothers pipes. I had to go through the carbs because the PO let them sit for a year and it barely ran when I got it. Jets in it are all stock. It still beats the the other valks all to peices for torque. Tops out at 105 though and won't go no mo!

[nogrey]

Did your ECT mod come with a potentiometer  and if so does the RPM increase as you turn the knob? Could be a bad wire from the temp sender to the ECM. Just for comparison, A buddy and I both had 2000 Std's, we swapped rides many times, We both commented on how his felt sluggish compared to mine. But on 20 mph and 50 mph side by side roll on they were perfectly matched. Go figure.

Yes, it came with the pot. I was fully expecting a change in idle from full ccw to full cw, but no change. No change in the timing at all from what I can tell. I'm beginning to wonder about the ECM (ICM?).

[nogrey]

Cam timing. I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but when I changed the belts about 7K miles ago, there was no change in the way it handled. I was in there just yesterday comparing the timing wheel against the 2000's timing wheel. That's how I discovered the 2000 had a 6 degree. Mine appears to be stock. Now valves, that may be worth taking a look at. Will check the valve settings and report back.
As far as running lean, I had 38 slow jets in it for about a year. Only difference I noted was poorer gas mileage. It's funny how persnickety these beasts can be. As far as I know, this bike has always run this way. Since I first got it at 2500mi.
I bought the ECT mod as a plug and play from someone here on the VRCC. I guess I hadn't considered the possibility of it being wrong somehow. The fact it changed nothing made me wonder about the ICM.

38 pilot jets are too rich. put the 35 PJs back in. then open up the mixture screws 2.5 to 3 open. then hold on.  don't use premium. only regular.

Only had the 38's for a year. Have 35's in there now. Been fighting this problem a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time!

[Punisher]

"Tops out at 105 though and won't go no mo!"

That sounds like timing is really high or it is just running way lean up high.   When I had a 6 degree it would top out at 120 indicated and that last 10 mph took a while to get up there.

I went back to stock trigger wheels on all of mine, run 87 gas and they run great, bottom end and top end.    Have pulled to 130 indicated and gets to 120 very quick.

If you do send to Attic Rat have him look at your cams as well to see what type they are.

Interested to see what comes of this...

[Bighead]

I had attic rat do his performance work on my '97 Bee and it was worth every penny. Never had a problem with anything before the work. But it runs like a raped ape now I would do it again in a minute.

[nogrey]

"Tops out at 105 though and won't go no mo!"

That sounds like timing is really high or it is just running way lean up high.   When I had a 6 degree it would top out at 120 indicated and that last 10 mph took a while to get up there.

I went back to stock trigger wheels on all of mine, run 87 gas and they run great, bottom end and top end.    Have pulled to 130 indicated and gets to 120 very quick.

If you do send to Attic Rat have him look at your cams as well to see what type they are.

Interested to see what comes of this...

Talked to Bob tonight. Sending him a deposit check tomorrow. He's booked until July '19 so will be a bit before we figure it all out.

[98valk]

Cam timing. I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but when I changed the belts about 7K miles ago, there was no change in the way it handled. I was in there just yesterday comparing the timing wheel against the 2000's timing wheel. That's how I discovered the 2000 had a 6 degree. Mine appears to be stock. Now valves, that may be worth taking a look at. Will check the valve settings and report back.
As far as running lean, I had 38 slow jets in it for about a year. Only difference I noted was poorer gas mileage. It's funny how persnickety these beasts can be. As far as I know, this bike has always run this way. Since I first got it at 2500mi.
I bought the ECT mod as a plug and play from someone here on the VRCC. I guess I hadn't considered the possibility of it being wrong somehow. The fact it changed nothing made me wonder about the ICM.

38 pilot jets are too rich. put the 35 PJs back in. then open up the mixture screws 2.5 to 3 open. then hold on.  don't use premium. only regular.

Only had the 38's for a year. Have 35's in there now. Been fighting this problem a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time!

what are the idle mixture screws set at? oem needles? any extra washers?

[Bagger John - #3785]

With regards to "38s being too rich":

'99 CA-model Tourer in my garage. Airbox and all smog plumbing is stock, as is the exhaust...with the exception of the tips. The bike has the stock CA cams.

Carbs have #38s fitted, with air screws 1 3/4 turns out from lightly seated. They also have Cobra adjustable jet needles (clip in 2nd notch from top) and I/S carb springs. An I/S ICM has been installed.

Even with an I/S trunk and Memphis Batwing installed, the bike will pull nearly as hard as my '00 Tourer did with the same mods; both averaged high 30s/low 40MPG readings @ freeway speeds. Plugs are checked for mixture indication and running condition every year. I've repeated this particular formula numerous times with my Valkyries and others, albeit with Dynojet needles in some of them. Only one - my '01 I/S - is indicating symptoms of being too rich, and I'm pretty certain the fault doesn't lie with the carb tuning. Troubleshooting will be a springtime project.

[Jersey]

With regards to "38s being too rich":

'99 CA-model Tourer in my garage. Airbox and all smog plumbing is stock, as is the exhaust...with the exception of the tips. The bike has the stock CA cams.

Carbs have #38s fitted, with air screws 1 3/4 turns out from lightly seated. They also have Cobra adjustable jet needles (clip in 2nd notch from top) and I/S carb springs. An I/S ICM has been installed.

Even with an I/S trunk and Memphis Batwing installed, the bike will pull nearly as hard as my '00 Tourer did with the same mods; both averaged high 30s/low 40MPG readings @ freeway speeds. Plugs are checked for mixture indication and running condition every year. I've repeated this particular formula numerous times with my Valkyries and others, albeit with Dynojet needles in some of them. Only one - my '01 I/S - is indicating symptoms of being too rich, and I'm pretty certain the fault doesn't lie with the carb tuning. Troubleshooting will be a springtime project.

I just did this after doing a completer carb rebuild.  Installed the #38's with everything else stock.  It pulls much harder and mileage has increased to 30mpg.  Bagger John do you mind if I PM?

[nogrey]

Cam timing. I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but when I changed the belts about 7K miles ago, there was no change in the way it handled. I was in there just yesterday comparing the timing wheel against the 2000's timing wheel. That's how I discovered the 2000 had a 6 degree. Mine appears to be stock. Now valves, that may be worth taking a look at. Will check the valve settings and report back.
As far as running lean, I had 38 slow jets in it for about a year. Only difference I noted was poorer gas mileage. It's funny how persnickety these beasts can be. As far as I know, this bike has always run this way. Since I first got it at 2500mi.
I bought the ECT mod as a plug and play from someone here on the VRCC. I guess I hadn't considered the possibility of it being wrong somehow. The fact it changed nothing made me wonder about the ICM.

38 pilot jets are too rich. put the 35 PJs back in. then open up the mixture screws 2.5 to 3 open. then hold on.  don't use premium. only regular.

Only had the 38's for a year. Have 35's in there now. Been fighting this problem a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time!

what are the idle mixture screws set at? oem needles? any extra washers?

Pilot screws are set at 1-3/4 out, as is the 2000. Has worked for many bikes. We are at 2300 ft.

[98valk]

Cam timing. I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but when I changed the belts about 7K miles ago, there was no change in the way it handled. I was in there just yesterday comparing the timing wheel against the 2000's timing wheel. That's how I discovered the 2000 had a 6 degree. Mine appears to be stock. Now valves, that may be worth taking a look at. Will check the valve settings and report back.
As far as running lean, I had 38 slow jets in it for about a year. Only difference I noted was poorer gas mileage. It's funny how persnickety these beasts can be. As far as I know, this bike has always run this way. Since I first got it at 2500mi.
I bought the ECT mod as a plug and play from someone here on the VRCC. I guess I hadn't considered the possibility of it being wrong somehow. The fact it changed nothing made me wonder about the ICM.

38 pilot jets are too rich. put the 35 PJs back in. then open up the mixture screws 2.5 to 3 open. then hold on.  don't use premium. only regular.

Only had the 38's for a year. Have 35's in there now. Been fighting this problem a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time!

what are the idle mixture screws set at? oem needles? any extra washers?

Pilot screws are set at 1-3/4 out, as is the 2000. Has worked for many bikes. We are at 2300 ft.

open them up 1/2 turn at a time. see how it runs.  also suggest front carb each bank use an extra washer on needles.

[Rusty Pipes]

I would reinstall the stock air filter. K&N will lean them out. +, I think K&N air filters are junk! How in hell do you ever know that they are clean? No thanks. The other thing is, you are not comparing apples to apples. To compare, both bikes need to be set up the same.  Point of interest. A buddy and myself both bought new 750 Yamaha specials. His was always faster. We switched bikes one day because I'm heavier. His bike was STILL faster!  His was black though.......................>>

[nogrey]

Cam timing. I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but when I changed the belts about 7K miles ago, there was no change in the way it handled. I was in there just yesterday comparing the timing wheel against the 2000's timing wheel. That's how I discovered the 2000 had a 6 degree. Mine appears to be stock. Now valves, that may be worth taking a look at. Will check the valve settings and report back.
As far as running lean, I had 38 slow jets in it for about a year. Only difference I noted was poorer gas mileage. It's funny how persnickety these beasts can be. As far as I know, this bike has always run this way. Since I first got it at 2500mi.
I bought the ECT mod as a plug and play from someone here on the VRCC. I guess I hadn't considered the possibility of it being wrong somehow. The fact it changed nothing made me wonder about the ICM.

38 pilot jets are too rich. put the 35 PJs back in. then open up the mixture screws 2.5 to 3 open. then hold on.  don't use premium. only regular.

Only had the 38's for a year. Have 35's in there now. Been fighting this problem a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time!

what are the idle mixture screws set at? oem needles? any extra washers?

Pilot screws are set at 1-3/4 out, as is the 2000. Has worked for many bikes. We are at 2300 ft.

open them up 1/2 turn at a time. see how it runs.  also suggest front carb each bank use an extra washer on needles.

That is certainly worth a try and easy enough to implement. Can you elaborate as to why the front carb on each bank needs the extra washer?

[98valk]

Cam timing. I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but when I changed the belts about 7K miles ago, there was no change in the way it handled. I was in there just yesterday comparing the timing wheel against the 2000's timing wheel. That's how I discovered the 2000 had a 6 degree. Mine appears to be stock. Now valves, that may be worth taking a look at. Will check the valve settings and report back.
As far as running lean, I had 38 slow jets in it for about a year. Only difference I noted was poorer gas mileage. It's funny how persnickety these beasts can be. As far as I know, this bike has always run this way. Since I first got it at 2500mi.
I bought the ECT mod as a plug and play from someone here on the VRCC. I guess I hadn't considered the possibility of it being wrong somehow. The fact it changed nothing made me wonder about the ICM.

38 pilot jets are too rich. put the 35 PJs back in. then open up the mixture screws 2.5 to 3 open. then hold on.  don't use premium. only regular.

Only had the 38's for a year. Have 35's in there now. Been fighting this problem a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time!

what are the idle mixture screws set at? oem needles? any extra washers?

Pilot screws are set at 1-3/4 out, as is the 2000. Has worked for many bikes. We are at 2300 ft.

open them up 1/2 turn at a time. see how it runs.  also suggest front carb each bank use an extra washer on needles.

That is certainly worth a try and easy enough to implement. Can you elaborate as to why the front carb on each bank needs the extra washer?

Marc from Factorypro told me about it. said front two can run lean in the mid-range due to them getting their fuel from the middle carbs.