Navy fire

[DirtyDan]

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2020/07/12/amphibious-assault-ship-ablaze-in-port-san-diego/

Dan

[_Sheffjs_]

Given the age and amount of damage, I would guess they will scrap it.   One wonders how vulnerable aircraft carriers are and will be going forward as the technology strike is so accurate and the range so massively far.   Is it wise to continue building them? 

[Oss]

Dan I have been worried about this for a decade or more.

Age is not the only factor, our b52s are 50+ yrs old and there is nothing like them

China quite naturally, since they will sacrifice millions with no care as they are communists, has thought many many many many missiles is better than expensive ships until recently.  Now they also are developing their (our stolen) stealth fighter/bomber delivery systems

The survivability of our carrier task forces and Taiwan and Japan and South Korea, is dependent IMHO on our ability to
(a)  strike the moment we see launch, the means the enemy (probably China ) has of firing thousands of missiles and torpedoes
and (b) the ability to skunk and intercept/ destroy those thousands of missiles

lets hope that inteception takes place well beyond the final defense perimeter as there is a limit to the # of targets we can take out from one spot and they may use tactical nukes  It is in their arsenal.

What really worries me is hypervelocity weapons.  Those are game changers

The same impact force as dropping a rock from orbit onto a ship

Hate to say it but it will take emp weapons to take that capacity from an enemy and that means we
should in that event be prepared to return to the 18th century unless Trump during his 2nd term can find a way to back China down with the help of all of her neighbors  China does not want a 4 front war

[scooperhsd]

As a former Navy CIC officer - it is going to be extremely difficult to take out a Nimitz or Ford class carrier with their accompaning surface ship screens. I thought we were pretty good in the late 80's when I was involved with this - things have progressed quite a bit since then. Now - we have the tech to do weapons targeting of a missile fired from a platform that can't "see" the intended target - we have our own gamechangers on. "Integrated battlefield" doesn't begin to describe it now.

As for the argument if we should continue to build these - nothing else provides the bang for the buck in pure power projection terms. Over and over , whenever a crisis occurs - one of the first things asked is "where is the nearest carrier group and how soon can they get there". One carrier has more airpower then many small countries entire airforce. And you have it ALL with a carrier - 4 squadrons of F/A18s, a squadron of A18G Growler Elecronic Warfare, a squadron of E2 Hawkeyes (think - miniature AWACS) - this week I saw one YouTube video that stated the newest version E-2D costs more than an F22 and F35 (there is ALOT of pricey equipment in one of these, and they are very capable even with only a 5 man crew (2 pilots and 3 NFOs in the back). Plus a couple of different Heliocopter squadrons  (with their own missions).

The targeting problem presented by trying to hit a carrier battle group is very hard  - in 30 minutes, the area expands exponentially and gets larger with time.

[scooperhsd]

As for the Bon Homme Richard - it depends. Certainly, if it's going to be repaired, it's going to be pretty extensive - figure 2 - 3 years. But one of these ships has a service life of 30-40 years. It may well be worth repairing.

[csj]

Say you've got 10 surface skimming Exocets coming at the Ford class carrier group from all angles. Are there really enough defences in that destroyer group, and the carriers' gattling guns to take out all 10 missiles?
This is conjecture. There might not be an answer.

[scooperhsd]

ONE CG47 or DDG51 Arleigh Burke destroyer should be able to take out all 10 Exocets if detected far enough out (see E-2 Hawkeye). That's if the F18's don't shoot them down first. There is usually One CG47 and 3-4 DDG51's assigned to each battle group - that should be able to handle far more than 10 - even without the F18's flying CAP.

[Rams]

As a former Navy CIC officer -

SNIP

Plus a couple of different Heliocopter squadrons  (with their own missions).

Wouldn't even think of debating any naval topics, I'll take you at your word.   But, being a former OH-58/AH-1 & UH-1 helicopter mission and test pilot, I would request that the spelling is correct.  

Just pull'n yer chain.  

Rams

[98valk]

Say you've got 10 surface skimming Exocets coming at the Ford class carrier group from all angles. Are there really enough defences in that destroyer group, and the carriers' gattling guns to take out all 10 missiles?
This is conjecture. There might not be an answer.

200 mile umbrella for carriers.

even its destroyer escort is 10-20 miles away sometimes just over the horizon.

[98valk]

was on naval ships at sea, in port and shipyards for over 30yrs. many times while in port repairs are going on. the fire main system had to be secured in that area of the ship for the fire to get out of control. if there was welding going on then the fire watchers failed to do their jobs. heads will roll.

[scooperhsd]

As a former Navy CIC officer -

SNIP

Plus a couple of different Heliocopter squadrons  (with their own missions).

Wouldn't even think of debating any naval topics, I'll take you at your word.   But, being a former OH-58/AH-1 & UH-1 helicopter mission and test pilot, I would request that the spelling is correct. 

Just pull'n yer chain. 

Rams

Deservedly so 

[old2soon]

       When i was on the Yorktown CVS-10 in the mid 60s we carried 115/145 avgas JP 4 jet fuel 87 octane gasoline for the aircraft tugs and N S F O-Navy standard fuel oil for the boilers that propelled the ship plus  the various lube oils and greases needed for the different engines and jets plus all the ammo needed for our operations-small arms heavy machine guns naval cannon bombs rockets and torpedoes. Basically sitting on a bomb waiting on a stray electrical current or spark or smoking when prohibited. Some one stated the fire watch standers screwed the pooch. I agree with this. The skeleton crew and the civilians aboard speak to me of Major work being done while wharf side. I personally believe eventually the Root Cause of the fire Will be determined. And YES heads Will roll. If you've ever stood mid watch you KNOW how sleepy you git but That excuse is NOT Acceptable. Buships-Bureau of Ships-will send a team to determine repair or scrap also taking into account The Navy's needs and costs involved and mission capabilities. Bonnie Dick Has been around awhile. We'll see where this goes. RIDE SAFE.

[98valk]

       When i was on the Yorktown CVS-10 in the mid 60s we carried 115/145 avgas JP 4 jet fuel 87 octane gasoline for the aircraft tugs and N S F O-Navy standard fuel oil for the boilers that propelled the ship plus  the various lube oils and greases needed for the different engines and jets plus all the ammo needed for our operations-small arms heavy machine guns naval cannon bombs rockets and torpedoes. Basically sitting on a bomb waiting on a stray electrical current or spark or smoking when prohibited. Some one stated the fire watch standers screwed the pooch. I agree with this. The skeleton crew and the civilians aboard speak to me of Major work being done while wharf side. I personally believe eventually the Root Cause of the fire Will be determined. And YES heads Will roll. If you've ever stood mid watch you KNOW how sleepy you git but That excuse is NOT Acceptable. Buships-Bureau of Ships-will send a team to determine repair or scrap also taking into account The Navy's needs and costs involved and mission capabilities. Bonnie Dick Has been around awhile. We'll see where this goes. RIDE SAFE.

"BuShips was abolished by DOD Order of 9 March 1966, as part of the general overhaul of the Navy's bureau system of material support. BuShips was succeeded by the Naval Ship Systems Command (NAVSHIPS), known as the Naval Sea Systems Command or NAVSEA since 1974."

The command I was with was NAVSSES and now known as Naval Surface Warfare Center and is directly below NAVSEA in the chain of command.

[old2soon]

       When i was on the Yorktown CVS-10 in the mid 60s we carried 115/145 avgas JP 4 jet fuel 87 octane gasoline for the aircraft tugs and N S F O-Navy standard fuel oil for the boilers that propelled the ship plus  the various lube oils and greases needed for the different engines and jets plus all the ammo needed for our operations-small arms heavy machine guns naval cannon bombs rockets and torpedoes. Basically sitting on a bomb waiting on a stray electrical current or spark or smoking when prohibited. Some one stated the fire watch standers screwed the pooch. I agree with this. The skeleton crew and the civilians aboard speak to me of Major work being done while wharf side. I personally believe eventually the Root Cause of the fire Will be determined. And YES heads Will roll. If you've ever stood mid watch you KNOW how sleepy you git but That excuse is NOT Acceptable. Buships-Bureau of Ships-will send a team to determine repair or scrap also taking into account The Navy's needs and costs involved and mission capabilities. Bonnie Dick Has been around awhile. We'll see where this goes. RIDE SAFE.

"BuShips was abolished by DOD Order of 9 March 1966, as part of the general overhaul of the Navy's bureau system of material support. BuShips was succeeded by the Naval Ship Systems Command (NAVSHIPS), known as the Naval Sea Systems Command or NAVSEA since 1974."

The command I was with was NAVSSES and now known as Naval Surface Warfare Center and is directly below NAVSEA in the chain of command.

1966 i still wore the dixie cup. And bell bottoms. Guilty of Not keeping up. Thanks fer the corrected info. RIDE SAFE.

[AwesomeDad]

Wow I remember that ships maiden voyage from Norfolk to the west coast, we put some Hueys and Cobras on it for crew training for the trip...

JJ

[Grandpot]

When civilians have a fire at home or at work, they call the fire department and go outside if they can.  Imagine what a catastrophe this fire would have been if the ship was out in the middle of the ocean.  There's no going outside. 

[old2soon]

When civilians have a fire at home or at work, they call the fire department and go outside if they can.  Imagine what a catastrophe this fire would have been if the ship was out in the middle of the ocean.  There's no going outside. 

But at sea the fire suppression system would have been hooked up. Also most of the reasons for fire drills. Drills in addition to keeping The Mission ongoing. There is ALWAYS more work on an Aircraft Carrier. And you Are correctamundo when a fire breaks out at sea-We ARE the Fire Dept and We ARE protecting Our Home-the Very Ship you Serve on. You do git attached to those old tubs.  RIDE SAFE.

[scooperhsd]

EVERY SAILOR IS A FIREFIGHTER AND DAMAGE CONTROL Person - especially at sea !!! On a Gator Freightor , so are the embarked Marines (until they are off on their mission). Which really comes home when they show you films from the incident on the Forrestall for training.

[3fan4life]

This is a pretty good article:

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2020/07/16/the-us-navys-top-officer-wants-answers-on-the-bonhomme-richard-fire/

[old2soon]

This is a pretty good article:

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2020/07/16/the-us-navys-top-officer-wants-answers-on-the-bonhomme-richard-fire/

One of the responses to that article touched on a likely scenario. Welding being done Without a Fire Watch. I M H O and being 52+ years out of touch with The Navy Many balls were dropped. The article also mentioned a word I had Not heard in awhile-conflagration. In the hangar bay of Yorktown IF i recall correctly there were 4 conflagration stations. Basically an armored box mounted high to direct fire fighting from. Anyone seen pictures of the damage done to the Bonnie Dick yet? RIDE SAFE.

[scooperhsd]

This is pretty damn serious when CNO flew out to San Diego to personally check this out.

[shortleg]

  Her is one that will always bother me.
https://www.history.navy.mil/browse-by-topic/disasters-and-phenomena/forrestal-fire.html