K&N Air filter BAD IDEA? HELP!! 911

[BIG--T]

I really need help because I ordered a K&N just a couple hours ago and might have to cancel my order before 4:30-5:00pm EST.

I did a search about K&N and don't know how I did it because now when I type in the search box I come up with nothing! But anyway seems the majority were negative posts ranging from not running right, sputtering, to rejetting the carbs. I am running Cobras and don't even want to rejet the carbs. I forgot a lot of what was said, but it wasn't good.

I don't know about the Valk because I'm talking about two different animals. But when I put a K&N on my VTX 1800, I found she was really starving for air. I put it on at a buddy's house and about 3 hrs later(forgot I put it on) and i noticed riding it, taking it easy, how much more power and ease of acceleration she had before it occured to me it was the K&N. I realized how much she was starving for air and really opened the airbox up and couldn't believe how much more power she had!- not to mention how it increased my gas mileage. Later I put a Thunder Hurricane on her. Now keep in mind she is fuel injected and the ECU would handle the A/F ratio. So I guess I couldn't add a little extra air to the Valk without rejetting it. Please CORRECT me if I'm wrong. It would be nice if I could. BTW, She only has 8,000 miles on her.

So to the ones who have tried the K&N, please give me your thoghts on it so I'll know whether to cancel my order. Thanks a lot.  

[X Ring]

The K&N filter for the Valk comes with a foam prefilter.  It's your decision to use it or not.  If you use it you don't have to worry about rejetting.  If you don't, you have to rejet.  With the Cobras, you lost hp without rejetting then add a K&N without the prefilter, you'll lean out even more.  Not an expert but I think you could possibly harm the engine.

Marty

[Kaiser]

Step 1: Relax.
Step 2: Don't cancel your order.

The reason why the search came back with nothing is because it is context-sensitive.  What I mean by that is that you need to click on the "Home" tab before doing any searches so that the entire forum will be searched.  If you are within a single thread, search will only look within that thread instead of across all posts.

I don't run the K&N, but from what I've read...it's not going to give you a night-and-day-holy-cow-this-is-an-entirely-new-bike-feel.  But, it's reusable and gives you more air than OEM, so several have gone with it and are happy.

[BIG--T]

The K&N filter for the Valk comes with a foam prefilter.  It's your decision to use it or not.  If you use it you don't have to worry about rejetting.  If you don't, you have to rejet.  With the Cobras, you lost hp without rejetting then add a K&N without the prefilter, you'll lean out even more.  Not an expert but I think you could possibly harm the engine.

Marty

Marty when I bought the bike last week, it already had the Cobras on it and I asked him and he said he had it rejetted. If anything it looks like it's running a tad rich. There's been people telling me not to use the prefilter but maybe they assumed I was going to rejet. So with a foam filter I guess that would restrict the air flow so there would not be more HP and increased gas mileage. So If I'm thinking right, I might as well use the factory filter.
Thanks for the help 

[X Ring]

Consider this.  With the K&N you won't be removing the tank as often to service it as you would be replacing a stock air filter, imho.

Marty

[BIG--T]

Consider this.  With the K&N you won't be removing the tank as often to service it as you would be replacing a stock air filter, imho.

Marty
[/quote

Good point! I don't have a service manual yet and wonder when I'm suppose to change it.

Thanks, Tony

[smurf]

well it comes downt to personal preference...i  have one on my 97 valk and have not installed the foam...i have cobra pipes with the baffels removed..and jets  and have noticed an increase in milage..about 3 mpg...and a increase in the throttle responce...and have had it there about 15,ooo mi, and have no ill effects.....

[matt]

i have a 98 standard with cobras and k&n had to remove prefilter  no rejetting needed.  be good Matt

[BIG--T]

Well that is great news Matt and Smurf!  Matt I have  a 98 Standard too, did you take the baffles out? That's the first thing I did last week when I bought her and couldn't tell a bit of difference in performance. The guy I bought it from said the previous owner  had the Cobras rejetted - so who knows. Matt did you rejet when you first put the pipes on?

Thanks a lot guys, I don't believe I'll put the foam in either!  It has to breath better without the foam. Besides, if it doesn't work, I guess I can always put the foam in. Now I won't cancel! 

[matt]

Xguy     I have not tried without baffles,  and I have not rejetted I did do ect timming mod and ported out intakes and head ports for intake side. The ect was one of the better noticable mods. Xguy you going to be at inzane as this will be my first year to attend  Be Good Matt

[BIG--T]

Matt I never heard of the etc timing mod. Is there a write up on the board? And I would like to go to Inzane but don't know for now. I'm going to try my best! 

Take care and keep the rubber side down 

[PhredValk]

Check the mods on Shoptalk (link at top of page). Lots of stuff on electrical, exhaust, routine meintenance. The ECT mod is there. I spent hours looking at stuff in Shoptalk when I first started here.
Fred.

[bassman]

ECT Mod from Shoptalk....

http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/ect-mod.htm

[Brovietnam]

'97 Tourer, 6 Degree Trigger Wheel, piggys cut.  Foam pad on filter.  Running above 5280 and I usually get 38 mpg.  I have had the K & N for 11 or 12 years.  102,000 miles.

[BIG--T]

Check the mods on Shoptalk (link at top of page). Lots of stuff on electrical, exhaust, routine meintenance. The ECT mod is there. I spent hours looking at stuff in Shoptalk when I first started here.
Fred.

Thanks Fred for the help. That's exactly where I'm going because I have a lot of questions. Not only what I've already mentioned, but thinking of an airbox mod. Thanks to ya'll, I'm learning more about the board too! 

[BIG--T]

Again, thanks to all that have helped me. I am learning a lot and have only had her a week!

[sugerbear]

be very careful with the airbox mods.

search the archives about it. most have had bad luck changing the airbox.

or so it seems. i don't know first hand.

[Six Guns]

thinking of an airbox mod

Leave the airbox as is. Your asking for problems as most people that have tried to modify the airbox have had problems. JMHO.
It's your bike and you can do as you like, but just be forewarned.       

[9Ball]

Consider this.  With the K&N you won't be removing the tank as often to service it as you would be replacing a stock air filter, imho.

Marty

The filter lasts for up to a million miles, but the filter still needs annual servicing, depending on the miles you put on the bike.

The pleats get dirty since the oil traps the dirt and dust....also, the oil dries out and becomes less effective.  You need to clean and re-oil periodically, so there really is no mileage or time benefit to removing the tank for servicing the K&N air filter versus replacing the stock air filter.  The instructions that come with the K&N explain this pretty clearly.

One thing about the K&N is that the dirtier it gets, the more effective it is in removing the dirt and dust.

Finally, if you have Cobra 6x6 and a K&N without the prefilter you should probably dyno the bike....you will find it may be too lean and need re-jetting.  Mine did, and I got the bike back to 90 hp at 5280 feet with the Factory Pro jet kit.

[fudgie]

K & N and prefilter. 

[98valk]

by cleaning it every 3k miles or annually u are letting in a lot of dirt. Look at the SAE J726C test and u will see how much a K&N lets in until at the end of the test, where it is then 97% efficient, the # they like to boost about. paper air filters are 95-97% efficient at the beginning of the test and near 99% at the end. K&N is a race track item and shouldn't be used on the street.
K&N plays with the facts and testing to sell products. Their org test way back in the begining to prove their filter increased HP was to use a car that had an OEM undersized air cleaner which restricted the amount of air going into the engine, add their filter or no filter at all and HP goes up. And remember the HP was at the upper RPM ranges where most riders and drivers of vehicles rarely drive at if at all.
The OEM filter will last longer than 12k miles and flows more than enough. remove the EPA noise screen mesh from the bottom of the filter for even more airflow.

http://www.roadkill.com/~davet/moto/air.filters.html     Sae test

http://www.knfilters.com/images/factstab1.gif    K&Ns own test, grams of dirt are being let in until the end of the test, translates thousands of miles dirt getting into the valve stems and rings before the filter is at 97-99% efficiency


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=Arlen+Spicer+airfilter+test&aq=f&aqi=m1&aql=&oq=

bobistheoilguy.com has similar results in the air filter testing section and oil analysis always shows increase dirt with a k&n.

[BIG--T]

by cleaning it every 3k miles or annually u are letting in a lot of dirt. Look at the SAE J726C test and u will see how much a K&N lets in until at the end of the test, where it is then 97% efficient, the # they like to boost about. paper air filters are 95-97% efficient at the beginning of the test and near 99% at the end. K&N is a race track item and shouldn't be used on the street.
K&N plays with the facts and testing to sell products. Their org test way back in the begining to prove their filter increased HP was to use a car that had an OEM undersized air cleaner which restricted the amount of air going into the engine, add their filter or no filter at all and HP goes up. And remember the HP was at the upper RPM ranges where most riders and drivers of vehicles rarely drive at if at all.
The OEM filter will last longer than 12k miles and flows more than enough. remove the EPA noise screen mesh from the bottom of the filter for even more airflow.

http://www.roadkill.com/~davet/moto/air.filters.html     Sae test

http://www.knfilters.com/images/factstab1.gif    K&Ns own test, grams of dirt are being let in until the end of the test, translates thousands of miles dirt getting into the valve stems and rings before the filter is at 97-99% efficiency


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=Arlen+Spicer+airfilter+test&aq=f&aqi=m1&aql=&oq=

bobistheoilguy.com has similar results in the air filter testing section and oil analysis always shows increase dirt with a k&n.

Well I see this is a very contraversal subject! Both for and against. Well it soo late for me since I've already ordered one. I don't understand "by cleaning it every 3k or anually you let in a lot of dirt". I've ran a K&N for years on V Twins (just a few minutes and ur done!) and I always clean and hose from the inside out then oil. I don't understand how dirt can get in. Thanks for the links I'll check them out.

[BIG--T]

Thanks for the advice on the airbox. I think I will leave it alone. I'm used to tinkering on  V Twins and the Valk is not something I wanna tinker with!!

[BIG--T]

'97 Tourer, 6 Degree Trigger Wheel, piggys cut.  Foam pad on filter.  Running above 5280 and I usually get 38 mpg.  I have had the K & N for 11 or 12 years.  102,000 miles.

WOW, I've been debating whether to put the foam in or not and I think you mighta answered my question with 102k miles and 38 mpg!

Thanks

[98valk]

Well I see this is a very contraversal subject! Both for and against. Well it soo late for me since I've already ordered one. I don't understand "by cleaning it every 3k or anually you let in a lot of dirt". I've ran a K&N for years on V Twins (just a few minutes and ur done!) and I always clean and hose from the inside out then oil. I don't understand how dirt can get in. Thanks for the links I'll check them out.
[/quote]

the beginning of the SAE test is a brand new oiled filter. its is only 97% efficient, after loading up with dirt or miles down the road it filters 99% efficient. this is why they say to clean and reoil every 50k miles. the dirt accumulation is part of its filtering ability. always has been.

"However, if a filter is using "better airflow" as their marketing tool, remember this....Does it flow better? At very high airflow volumes, probably. BUT, our engines CAN'T flow that much air unless super-modified, so what is the point? The stock filter will flow MORE THAN ENOUGH AIR to give you ALL THE HORSEPOWER the engine has to give."

this is the famous spicer air filter test. The ISO 5011 Standard (formerly SAE J726) defines a precise filter test using precision measurements under controlled conditions.

http://forums.nicoclub.com/debunking-the-k-n-myth-why-oem-is-better-t180100.html

In 60 minutes the AC Filter accumulated 574gms of dirt and passed only 0.4gms. After only 24 minutes the K&N had accumulated 221gms of dirt but passed 7.0gms.

Compared to the AC, the K&N "plugged up" nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt. See the data tables for a complete summary of these comparisons.

[Old Geezer Richard]

  Hey XGUY , opinions about air filters , oil filters and Car Tires is like a politicial football everybody has their likes and dislikes ..... try out the K&N filter ... I run a K&N filter with the foam pre-filter which catches alot of flying bugs I notice  , a 6 degree tw and Cobra pipes and I have not jetted or messed around with the carbs and a C/T at 36 lbs and 40 lbs front tire and if I stay at 3,000 rpm's while on the hwy and it will vary with hills and flat roads , I'm getting 38 - 40 mpg and I run super unleaded and thats with my wifey too , believe it or not ... try it out and see what works for you , OK .... Myself I clean-out my filter every spring and change out all the fluids also all at the same time regardless of the miles , but thats me... Ride safe . Thanks the Geezer

[BIG--T]

Hey Geezer, You are right about political football! Lol  Well I ordered mine 2 days ago so I am going for it. I know we are talking two different animals, but I didn't know how much my VTX 1800 was starving for air until I put a drop in K&N filter(no prefilter) in. Very noticeable HP and added 3-4 mpg! Then I opened my air box up completely and man what a difference in HP!!

But I've heard negative results modifying the airbox in the Valk so I'm leaving that alone, besides she looks way too hard to work on compared to a twin!! Heck I don't even know how to take the tank off but I'll figure it out. I need to get a service manual to make life easier!

Little too late now, but I hope the prefilter comes with it. If not , that'll make my decision! 

Thanks

[98valk]

Hey Geezer, You are right about political football! Lol  Well I ordered mine 2 days ago so I am going for it. I know we are talking two different animals, but I didn't know how much my VTX 1800 was starving for air until I put a drop in K&N filter(no prefilter) in. Very noticeable HP and added 3-4 mpg! Then I opened my air box up completely and man what a difference in HP!!

this is exactly the games K&N does. From your experience the VTX airbox/filter is undersized. removing the airfilter would do the same as the K&N. If the airbox and filter were correctly sized for the engine and airflow required, replacing the filter with a K&N would make no difference. but then again a v-twin cruiser will not look good with a huge airbox hung on the side of the engine.

my last dyno run with modified airbox and OEM airfilter, and glass pack exhaust, my '98 pulled 100HP

[hubcapsc]

They want you to change out the OEM every 10K...



-Mike

[BIG--T]

They want you to change out the OEM every 10K...



-Mike

Thanks Mike, That's good to know. I need to find a service manual quick because this fat lady is unlike any bike I've ever owned! BTW, I hope you and your friend had a chance to ride last weekend...I mean 73*!! What a heat wave compared to this weekend!

Later, Tony

[hubcapsc]

Thanks Mike, That's good to know. I need to find a service manual quick because this fat lady is unlike any bike I've ever owned! BTW, I hope you and your friend had a chance to ride last weekend...I mean 73*!! What a heat wave compared to this weekend!

Later, Tony

Kent didn't come to ride, he came to play guitar and hang out... it is supposed to be 55 on Sunday afternoon this weekend...

-Mike "it would have been awesome to ride last weekend..."

[BIG--T]

Thanks Mike, That's good to know. I need to find a service manual quick because this fat lady is unlike any bike I've ever owned! BTW, I hope you and your friend had a chance to ride last weekend...I mean 73*!! What a heat wave compared to this weekend!

Later, Tony

Kent didn't come to ride, he came to play guitar and hang out... it is supposed to be 55 on Sunday afternoon this weekend...

-Mike "it would have been awesome to ride last weekend..."

Cool, What kind of music ya'll play? I play a little myself 

[hubcapsc]

Cool, What kind of music ya'll play?

The bad off-key pentatonic noodling kind 

-Mike

[Bone]

XGUY you have to look at shoptalk.

http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/carltank.htm

[BIG--T]

Cool, What kind of music ya'll play?

The bad off-key pentatonic noodling kind 

-Mike

[BIG--T]

XGUY you have to look at shoptalk.

http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/carltank.htm

Thanks Bone, that's alot of help. I'm gonna have to buy a manual before they become extinct! 

[98valk]

service manual recomends 12k miles not 10k. they last much longer than that as do car/truck paper filters. dirt roads. dusty areas yes 12k miles otherwise much much longer, check bobistheoilguy.com and other websites with results

[Bone]

XGUY Dag is a member in Norway. On his site (link below) he offered a free download of the service manual. I find it very handy to print out a page and take it to the bike or bench of the project I'm working on, doesn't flip closed

http://www.valkyrienorway.com/

[BIG--T]

Thanks Bone, got it!   

[BIG--T]

AGAIN THANKS BONE! IT'LL TAKE LONGER TO READ THAT THAN A SET OF ENCYLOPEDIAS!!  WOW MORE THAN I'LL EVER NEED TO KNOW....AND SURE CAN'T BEAT FREE!!1