hard starting valk

[samoanrich]

I have a 1999 valkyrie tourer, fresh tune up etc, problem is at times when I stall it, it doesn't want to start, or when I let it sit for a while having a few cold ones and come out and try to start it, figured I don't need to choke it, maybe I do, don't know, any suggestions.

[Farther]

Check your battery.  The Valkyrie takes less energy to spin the starter than to start engine.

[Pete]

You need to determine the problem.

Next time it fails:

Determine if you have spark.
Determine if the plugs are fouled (gassed).
If sparking and not gassed then choke it.
If gassed quite choking it and turn it over with the throttle fully open to clear it or clean the plugs.

Usually once mine has been started for the day, during mild weather does not require choke for a later start. Just a  little throttle.

If using the choke then do not give it any throttle.

[Hoser]

The choke can be hard to apply all the way, push hard after you think it is engaged.  This condition can be fixed with some careful cable adjustment.  Hoser

[gordonv]

I think you have the same condition I have on my Honda MC.

Sometimes I use the chock even though the bike is warm (hot), just till it starts, then turn it off.

Most of the time I use one hand on the starter switch and the other on the throttle. Shortly after the starter turns over the engine, I apply a little throttle.

Too much throttle when it's warm, it wont start. Too warm for the chock, not warm enough for the throttle. It's just a hit/miss kind of thing. I don't think there is anything wrong with any of the bikes systems. Mileage is close to what everyone else gets on their bikes.

[Chrisj CMA]

If a Valk is hard to start even with the choke (enricher) and its noit freezing cold out, then that is not normal. 

put a heavy dose of techron in the gas so IF you get it started maybe it can get cleaned out if there is some gunk.  Also make sure no vacuum leaks...lines, nipple plugs, and intake runner clamps.  Also if the battery is more than 3 years old, just get a new one, put a full charge on it and then see how she does

[Patrick]

A new tune-up ? Stall it ? Doesn't want to start ? I guess I don't know what those statements mean.. It appears you recently purchased this monster.. The choke will probably be needed on a cold start, once/if the engine is warm it shouldn't be needed.. There is a bit of a trick to the choke operation, once you feel resistance just push a little more.. What do mean by not wanting to start? Does the engine spin but not fire or does the starter not want to work ? These critters need a good battery and if the battery is weak the engine will spin but not fire.. If the starter doesn't seem to work properly then the switch may cleaning..

[samoanrich]

well changed the plugs and they were foul out, just did a complete tune up on it three months ago. So
how do I correct this problem. Think it is running rich.
when I stall it, I mean pulling out in the wrong gear, just stubborn doesn't want to start again Thats after riding down the road several miles, so I don't think I have to choke it again It turns over ok but I'll take your advice and put
a new battery in it as it is more than three years old. When the bike is running its running good no missing nothing, just hold on.

[Hoser]

Do you happen to have six pipes?  If it has not been rejetted, it will run rich, also loss of horsepower, more so if baffles removed.  Hoser

[samoanrich]

No,stock exhaust no modifications done to it. Got a new battery but I don't think that is the problem.
I can push down the and jump start it, and it starts fine. But, if I let it idle it will shut it off and, yes
I have a full tank of fuel. Someone mention putting tec additive to it to clean the carbs out. Did that guy
sell that i/s out east here for 5000.00. I was trying to get a phone number.
Charging the battery now and will install it later today.

[Patrick]

  I guess I still don't understand your problem.. You can push down on what[?] and jump start [?] and it starts fine...  I don't understand this..
  When you push the start button the engine engine should spin/turn over easily/freely with no hesitation in button operation.. If this a problem, perform start switch maintenance..
  If you need to 'jump start' it from another battery and it starts fine, you need a good/new battery..
  If it doesn't want to idle and stalls,, there is something really wrong.. First, open the gas cap, if it stays running, the tank vent line is probably kinked or plugged.. If that is OK, then look for vacuum line/hose leaks and check the intake runner o-rings[spray ether/starter fluid around the base and if the engine speed changes thats the problem]..
  You mention you stall the engine if starting out in the wrong gear,, these monsters will start out in 2nd gear and not think a thing about it, it doesn't care..
  After this stuff if you're still having trouble, let us know.. Maybe someone near you will have to take it for a ride..

[Chrisj CMA]

No,stock exhaust no modifications done to it. Got a new battery but I don't think that is the problem.
I can push down the and jump start it, and it starts fine. But, if I let it idle it will shut it off and, yes
I have a full tank of fuel. Someone mention putting tec additive to it to clean the carbs out. Did that guy
sell that i/s out east here for 5000.00. I was trying to get a phone number.
Charging the battery now and will install it later today.

This paragraph is somewhat hard to understand.  Have you checked all 18 screws that hold the intake runners together? How old are the vacuum lines? Have you checked the negative ground wire to make sure its tight and clean, good connection.  Many times loose battery connections will cause all the symptoms you have.  Were the connectioons tight when you removed the battery?  What is a full tune up anyways?  theres nothing really to tune.  What did you do (tuneup wise), maybe you caused a problem by doing something that didnt need doing.

[Hoser]

No,stock exhaust no modifications done to it. Got a new battery but I don't think that is the problem.
I can push down the and jump start it, and it starts fine. But, if I let it idle it will shut it off and, yes
I have a full tank of fuel. Someone mention putting tec additive to it to clean the carbs out. Did that guy
sell that i/s out east here for 5000.00. I was trying to get a phone number.
Charging the battery now and will install it later today.

This paragraph is somewhat hard to understand.  Have you checked all 18 screws that hold the intake runners together? How old are the vacuum lines? Have you checked the negative ground wire to make sure its tight and clean, good connection.  Many times loose battery connections will cause all the symptoms you have.  Were the connectioons tight when you removed the battery?  What is a full tune up anyways?  theres nothing really to tune.  What did you do (tuneup wise), maybe you caused a problem by doing something that didnt need doing.

Hey Chris, locate for me the 18 screws, I would like to tighten them myself, been having a little issue with keeping all six firing.  Hoser

[Chrisj CMA]

No,stock exhaust no modifications done to it. Got a new battery but I don't think that is the problem.
I can push down the and jump start it, and it starts fine. But, if I let it idle it will shut it off and, yes
I have a full tank of fuel. Someone mention putting tec additive to it to clean the carbs out. Did that guy
sell that i/s out east here for 5000.00. I was trying to get a phone number.
Charging the battery now and will install it later today.

This paragraph is somewhat hard to understand.  Have you checked all 18 screws that hold the intake runners together? How old are the vacuum lines? Have you checked the negative ground wire to make sure its tight and clean, good connection.  Many times loose battery connections will cause all the symptoms you have.  Were the connectioons tight when you removed the battery?  What is a full tune up anyways?  theres nothing really to tune.  What did you do (tuneup wise), maybe you caused a problem by doing something that didnt need doing.

Hey Chris, locate for me the 18 screws, I would like to tighten them myself, been having a little issue with keeping all six firing.  Hoser

On a standard six are readily accesable at the top of the intake runner (chrome tubes)...remove the choke linkage covers and you will see six more.  Then just under the gas tank there are six more.....those top six can wait until you have the tank off, they dont seem to get real loose like the other 12 do

[Hoser]

Boy, you're quik, Chris, now I must go to the Garage! It's hot out there. Check my weather banner.   Hoser  

[Patrick]

Chris makes an excellent point about the ground cable connection.. It tends to loosen at the block end.. Lower left corner of the engine block.. I didn't think about that, good point..

[samoanrich]

When I mention jump start, I push it down a hill and jump on and pop it into gear to get it running.
A lot of work on my part, but it did the job. Did install the new battery today and had the old one check
and the guys at auto zone said it had a good charge 12.49 amps on their machine. I did clean the contacts and it seems to be working now.  So I will use the old battery for a back up. Does smell like it is running rich. Someone suggested to
adjust the valves and have the carbs gone over. I will look into the other things that was suggested
on here and let you know what I find out. Your right I did purchase it this spring and it had been sitting for
a few years, change all fluids,new tires,brakes,timing belt,new trigger wheel,spark plugs,fresh gas, and
if you have any more suggestions that I should do to this bike let me know, yes I'm a learning curve with this monster,

Thanks again

[Chrisj CMA]

When I mention jump start, I push it down a hill and jump on and pop it into gear to get it running.
A lot of work on my part, but it did the job. Did install the new battery today and had the old one check
and the guys at auto zone said it had a good charge 12.49 amps on their machine. I did clean the contacts and it seems to be working now.  So I will use the old battery for a back up. Does smell like it is running rich. Someone suggested to
adjust the valves and have the carbs gone over. I will look into the other things that was suggested
on here and let you know what I find out. Your right I did purchase it this spring and it had been sitting for
a few years, change all fluids,new tires,brakes,timing belt,new trigger wheel,spark plugs,fresh gas, and
if you have any more suggestions that I should do to this bike let me know, yes I'm a learning curve with this monster,

Thanks again

Gonna be blunt here.

What is a Fresh tune up What did you do?

Why do you start off in the wrong gear and stall it out so much?

Why do you drink a bunch of beer and then mess with the bike, seems thats not working too well for ya

Why did you not say at the beginning it sat for a long time.  People try to help, but we cant read your mind....thats the biggest problem stated so far.

Is this your first bike.  If so, not such good first bike

[9Ball]

Do you happen to have six pipes?  If it has not been rejetted, it will run rich, also loss of horsepower, more so if baffles removed.  Hoser

typically it's the other way around.  Changing from stock to 6x6 the bike usually runs lean, not rich.  More air flow with same volume of fuel will run lean.

Just an FYI...

[9Ball]

When I mention jump start, I push it down a hill and jump on and pop it into gear to get it running.
A lot of work on my part, but it did the job. Did install the new battery today and had the old one check
and the guys at auto zone said it had a good charge 12.49 amps on their machine. I did clean the contacts and it seems to be working now.  So I will use the old battery for a back up. Does smell like it is running rich. Someone suggested to
adjust the valves and have the carbs gone over. I will look into the other things that was suggested
on here and let you know what I find out. Your right I did purchase it this spring and it had been sitting for
a few years, change all fluids,new tires,brakes,timing belt,new trigger wheel,spark plugs,fresh gas, and
if you have any more suggestions that I should do to this bike let me know, yes I'm a learning curve with this monster,

Thanks again

adjusting the valves won't help with the symptoms you describe, although a periodic valve adjustment and carb sync are part of a "tune up".  Seems you're also confusing amps with volts for the battery.

There's something going on, but not sure based on the info you provided.

[Hoser]

Do you happen to have six pipes?  If it has not been rejetted, it will run rich, also loss of horsepower, more so if baffles removed.  Hoser

typically it's the other way around.  Changing from stock to 6x6 the bike usually runs lean, not rich.  More air flow with same volume of fuel will run lean.

Just an FYI...

Thanks for the info, makes sense.  Hoser

[Patrick]

It would have been nice to know all the history from the start.. It would appear that your biggest problem is varnished fuel and the resulting dreaded plugged low/slow jets.. Will this bike run smoothly in 5th gear at about 1500-2000rpms ?? If not, you got yourself some plugged jets.. If it does, we need to look elsewhere.. I think you should leave the valve adjustment and carburetor sync alone for now..

[Ricky-D]

Sounds like you're running with the choke "on".

Rotate it "off" and your problem will be solved!

***

[samoanrich]

No, I am not running with the choke on.  Runs fine in all the gears when I can get it started and no this is not my first bike. I'll put in the tec additive you suggested and see if this helps. I have been riding
this bike for three months now and I would think the varnished fuel would be run out of it by now. The bike just started acting up with the hard starting problem that I was having and that was why I first
check the plugs and saw that they were foul out and replaced them. Changing the plugs  didn't help, still
hard to start. What would cause the bike to be running rich. I'll hold off on having the valves  being adjusted and the carbs being sysc.

[valkyriemc]

samoanrich have a look at this...

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,25677.40.html

[Ricky-D]

Running rich with a pretty much stock Valkyrie is an unusual problem.

If your choke is working properly, meaning you can see the enrichment valves actually retreating into their body's,

Leaves very little to account for the richness.

I think the chances of larger jets is pretty remote since you've stock exhaust still.

My suggestion would be to check the air box for some kind of air restriction, inside or out since the problem is with all six carburetors.

Restricted air will cause very rich running condition yet still allow the motor to idle fairly well and run low rpm's Ok.

***

[Ricky-D]

Well, I should have mentioned motor condition also.

Poor compression figures can surely cause your problem.

1) rich running

2) poor idling power (bad, off the kickstand, takeoff characteristics)

***

[Chrisj CMA]

samoanrich have a look at this...

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,25677.40.html

Theres obviously a change to the actual part (choke lever) over the model years.  Yours is upside down sorta compared to mine, and also the travel starts lower and ends lower, but you can see by the worn portion of my switch housing the length of travel is pretty much the same as yours.  Im sure my choke (enricher) whatever you call it is working properly, its just different than yours and all others I have seen for some reason
no choke

full choke

[Patrick]

There still has been no answers to how the bike starts hard.. From the response of the 'push start' it sounds as if the start switch needs to be cleaned,but, thats a guess since it wasn't mentioned how the switch acted..

[Chrisj CMA]

There still has been no answers to how the bike starts hard.. From the response of the 'push start' it sounds as if the start switch needs to be cleaned,but, thats a guess since it wasn't mentioned how the switch acted..

Patrick.  It seems the bike sat for a long time and there has been no talk of cleaning the carbs/jets.  Until the low speed jets are cleaned its going to continue to run like crappola, that info was left out until just a bit ago.  There are other unanswered things like on a neglegted bike like that it would be common to have loose clamps, bad vacuum lines and such. No word if those were looked at so, as in the starter button maintenance being done or not the rest is also anyones guess.  Very hard to give additional advise

[samoanrich]

So I should replace all the vacuum lines and were should I purchase them.  The bike runs find no
missing,stumbling nothing, I must be flooding the motor when I am trying to start it. No i didn't check the carbs or jets but I'll run the tec addictive through it. Maybe this will help. Is there other things
that I should look at,since the bike has been sitting for awhile. Like to get this straighten so I can go
on a road in the next couple of weeks on this week.

[Chrisj CMA]

So I should replace all the vacuum lines and were should I purchase them.  The bike runs find no
missing,stumbling nothing, I must be flooding the motor when I am trying to start it. No i didn't check the carbs or jets but I'll run the tec addictive through it. Maybe this will help. Is there other things
that I should look at,since the bike has been sitting for awhile. Like to get this straighten so I can go
on a road in the next couple of weeks on this week.

If it still has the factory vacuum lines Id say replace them and look very carefully at the unused ports (caps) they tend to dry rot.  Go buy 2 feet of 5/32" inside diameter fuel line and look in shop talk for some shortcuts in replacing them.

If it sat a number of years as you said chances are the low jets are plugged.  there may have been junk throughout the system....tank, fuel lines carb bowls etc and some riding sucked it into the jets and made them worse than they were, but Id be surprised if you dont have some completely clogged jets.

I hope the new batteyr with a full charge on it helps, you said the old battery tested out at 12.?? Volts.........not that low but a tad over 13V is what you want to see, 14.?? when running.

Did you tighten the intake runner clamps.....makes a big difference

[Patrick]

Chris, there was mention of plugged low jets a few posts up,,but,, I didn't say anything about how to unplug them.. I figured I would wait and see what answers we got first.. And, you're right, we're not really getting any answers to our questions.. From his last answer it appears that the jets may not be plugged,, but,, he didn't give an answer to help much.. I'm still thinking from his 'push start' post that he has a start switch issue,, it could be a dirty kill switch problem,but, That can be looked at quickly when the start switch is being looked after.. Like has been said over the years,, its hard to diagnose something on a forum like this,, but,, Some of us have just been around long enough to know most of the troubles with these monsters..

[gordonv]

I'll put in the tec additive you suggested and see if this helps. I have been riding
this bike for three months now and I would think the varnished fuel would be run out of it by now.

Running regular fuel through your carbs will NOT remove the varnish and gum from out of your system. Only a cleaner of one type or another will do that. So unless you are running Chevron Techron gas in your bike as a regular pratice, some kind of high strength (just a little gas, with a lot more than recommended additive) cleaner is called for.

[samoanrich]

So you think I need to look at the starter switch. The bike is turning over fine, the new battery didn't
help it. I was able to ride down a small grade by my house  and pop it into gear and it started that
way. And once it was running it runs fine, just doesn't want to start when I am engaging the starter
switch. Thanks for all your help

[Chrisj CMA]

Im done, good luck

[Ricky-D]

So you think I need to look at the starter switch. The bike is turning over fine, the new battery didn't
help it. I was able to ride down a small grade by my house  and pop it into gear and it started that
way. And once it was running it runs fine, just doesn't want to start when I am engaging the starter
switch. Thanks for all your help

Naw! It's not your starter switch. Don't mess with that!

Even after what you say about the new battery i am inclined to think it still is the battery.

One of the most reported traits of a worn out battery is that "The motor turns over fine but only starts when I let my finger release the start button".

The Valkyrie turns over very easily as you can also report about starting just rolling down the drive.

Probably the best thing to do is buy a cheap volt/ohm meter and see exactly what your battery is doing during the starting cycle.

Check and see how the volts are reading while trying to start the motor.

I think the general census is you need 10 volts minimum in order to fire the plugs.

***

[Bone]

I wonder if it is not a rich mixture but plugs not firing. The result of a weak battery ?

[R J]

Back to the hard starting.

One thing to remember, keep your firkin hand off of the throttle when you are trying to start the Phat lady, hot or cold.

She no like ya messing with the throttle.

Pop the choke on if it has set for several hours, it should start no problem and when it does, get the choke off ASAP.

Cold starting in the morning, push the choke full on, keep your damn fingers off the throttle and hit the starter button.    Should fire right off if the battery has enough juice to fire the coils.   Let it idle for a few minutes and take the choke off, now you may play with the throttle.

Now, enjoy your ride.

[Challenger]

Have you pulled the air filter and checked for mold, crotch-crickets or tad polls? Who knows whats in there after sitting for a long period. I'm leaning toward electrical though. bad connection or something robbing voltage away from the coils while starter is engaged.