Health panels. No, really??? Political

[..]

https://www.youtube.com/embed/6e3udzHIiVs?feature=player_detailpage

[BF]

I have mixed emotions about the Obama care thing. 

On the one hand, I don't want the government to force me (or anyone) into anything, but on the other hand, there are way too many good people that fall through the healthcare cracks because of no coverage or not enough coverage, or refusal to cover. 

If one case is too many, then there are way too many as evidenced just on this board alone that some people fall through the cracks. 

People shouldn't have to go backrupt simply because they get sick. 

[BigAl]

Now that you are a Citizen of this once great country.

How do you feel about Socialised Medicine, Britman?

Becareful how you respond Junior(Prez) is watching.

53 seconds.

53 seconds that should end a presidency

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I also have mixed feelings about it. I don't want anyone telling me what to do as far as health (or anything else) goes. But, I do think something needs to be done to make it more affordable, successful and transferable.

This is personal for me as it is for most of us. Small businesses can't afford good health care plans for their employees. I know for a fact that it's easy for a young couple to wind up owing over $10,000 out of pocket after a child is born. That's after insurance pays their share. In particular if the insured works for a small business.

What that means is that those on public assistance who don't pay their own medical bills can have all the children they want. But those who pay their bills, those who are most likely to raise successful children, can't afford to have children.

Encouraging those least able to care for themselves, those least likely to be successful in life or parenthood to have limitless quantities of children while discouraging those most likely to succeed from having children will have to destroy our society eventually. There is no other possible outcome that I can see.

I have a friend whose wife has been fighting what was originally breast cancer for years. They have two daughters who were very young when she was diagnosed. She wasn't diagnosed till it had spread because her doctor kept telling her she was too young and that lump couldn't be cancer. By the time she went to another doctor who would check it out she was nearly end stage and had little chance of living much longer. Through aggressive, sometimes out of network treatments she has survived to see her daughters become teens but it has financially destroyed them. My bud (her husband) can never change jobs because a new employer's insurance would probably not cover her preexisting condition. Their medical bills are already so high they will never be able to pay them and they are still growing weekly.

And we all know how often medical care goes wrong. I lost my Dad, one of my sons and nearly my leg to medical misadventures. When you consider cancer is probably the most money making industry in the world one has to wonder if a cure would be acknowledged or used even if it was found.

What our medical industry seems to most excel at is making sure whatever savings a person is able to squirrel away in life is passed to the medical industry instead of his/her heirs.

[Momz]

In the Netherlands, they have volantary euthanasia.
It saves families a lot of money and individuals from needless suffering.

We should should seriously consider this in this country.

[Doc809]

Euth  an  asia?  Is that like teenagers in China?  Sorry, couldn't resist.

[PharmBoy]

Sorry folks, but Obama Care will destroy the best health care system that this world has ever seen.  Even with the "incognito death pannels" in full operation doing away with all us old people as fast as they can, Obama Care will stifle any growth of our economy because of employers not being financilally able to expand their business because of the expense of paying for new workers' health care.  It is already happening and it is for sure that those who were not hired cannot or willnot pay their "tax" so that they will have insurance.  Those high paying jobs that we so desperately neen to grow our economy and bring our nation back from the brink of financial disaster will not be available.  We are on the road to becoming a second rate debtor nation just like so much of Europe unless we get some new leaders with a plan to turn this nation around.

Also, can anyone tell me how we can add 30 million people to our health care system without any system in place to train more health care workers.  Infact, 20-30% of the physicians now working will retire, simply because they can afford to and they are not going to let any bureaucrat looking at some "age/dollar" chart tell them how to practice medicine.  Older physicians are independent folks and if you will look around, most physicians are in their 50's or older.  There will be no rush of bright eyed, young bloods rushing into med schools to replace them because physicians will all be paid the same and their working hours and conditions will be deplorable. 

Obama's crowning piece of legislation is only the second worst thing to happen to this country since I have been privilaged to be a citizen of this once great nation.  The worst was Obama being elected and I say "elected" because he really has not led this country as any president should.  Even Carter was much better and I was an adult during his fiasco...Jim

[czuch]

My father in law had a quadruple bypass with no insurance. He makes 14K a year.
He's 65. He's seeing the Dr. every week and not being charged.
He's a liberal.
He thought the Dr. was "Just being cool".
I splained somebody was paying for him to go see the Dr. by paying insurance premiums.
I also splained they had to do so much "pro bono" for tax reasons.
I asked him if the Dr. just thought he was such a great guy that he'd just go ahead and see him?
He's a large liberal. He just thinks he's getting over on the system/man.
.02¢,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I weep.

[donaldcc]

I have mixed emotions about the Obama care thing. 

On the one hand, I don't want the government to force me (or anyone) into anything, but on the other hand, there are way too many good people that fall through the healthcare cracks because of no coverage or not enough coverage, or refusal to cover. 

If one case is too many, then there are way too many as evidenced just on this board alone that some people fall through the cracks. 

People shouldn't have to go backrupt simply because they get sick. 

  BF i think a miracle has happened, we might have some agreement about something.  I also don't want to be forced into anything.  I think it is a true tragedy that so many people in our country are unable to have access to healthcare.  We are one of the greatest countries in the world and yet cannot provide care to those in need?  I am not sure Obamacare is the right answer, but i think we need to move towards some programs and policy to assist children, elderly and those with serious health issues rather than just turning away from them.

[BF]

I have mixed emotions about the Obama care thing. 

On the one hand, I don't want the government to force me (or anyone) into anything, but on the other hand, there are way too many good people that fall through the healthcare cracks because of no coverage or not enough coverage, or refusal to cover. 

If one case is too many, then there are way too many as evidenced just on this board alone that some people fall through the cracks. 

People shouldn't have to go backrupt simply because they get sick. 

  BF i think a miracle has happened, we might have some agreement about something.  I also don't want to be forced into anything.  I think it is a true tragedy that so many people in our country are unable to have access to healthcare.  We are one of the greatest countries in the world and yet cannot provide care to those in need?  I am not sure Obamacare is the right answer, but i think we need to move towards some programs and policy to assist children, elderly and those with serious health issues rather than just turning away from them.

No miracle Donald.  I consider myself a right leaning central conservitive libertarian with a few liberal views.  How's that for nailing it down?

[donaldcc]

i think that is good!

[BigAl]

I have mixed emotions about the Obama care thing. 

On the one hand, I don't want the government to force me (or anyone) into anything, but on the other hand, there are way too many good people that fall through the healthcare cracks because of no coverage or not enough coverage, or refusal to cover. 

If one case is too many, then there are way too many as evidenced just on this board alone that some people fall through the cracks. 

People shouldn't have to go backrupt simply because they get sick. 

  BF i think a miracle has happened, we might have some agreement about something.  I also don't want to be forced into anything.  I think it is a true tragedy that so many people in our country are unable to have access to healthcare.  We are one of the greatest countries in the world and yet cannot provide care to those in need?  I am not sure Obamacare is the right answer, but i think we need to move towards some programs and policy to assist children, elderly and those with serious health issues rather than just turning away from them.

Medicare for those that are old and need it, Medicaid is there for the ones that need that, kids, adults, all have reasonable acess, but to tell my doctor how to treat my injury or desease is donw right wrong,

I pay my damn premiums and should get the best it will buy, no matter what.

If people don't want to or can't work, I shouild not be bound by thier decision, if you agree welcome to the Republican Party.

[BF]

Medicare for those that are old and need it, Medicaid is there for the ones that need that, kids, adults, all have reasonable acess, but to tell my doctor how to treat my injury or desease is donw right wrong,

I pay my damn premiums and should get the best it will buy, no matter what.

If people don't want to or can't work, I shouild not be bound by thier decision, if you agree welcome to the Republican Party.

Al....you already are bound by their decisions.  You are paying though the nose with those "damn" premiums that keep going up and up and up and up and up and up. 

Everyone needs access to healthcare Al.  The ability to keep and maintain a job shouldn't be a requiement for healthcare access.  There are plenty of people that don't have jobs for alot of reasons that are not of their own making that don't have access.  These are good hard working people that have fallen though the cracks....people that have always paid their taxes....done the right thing.  Why should these people be denied?   People like this have been right here on this board.  You might end up being one of these folks one day. 

I am not opposed to a single payer system....or a universal system either.  There are alot of countries that provide for their citizens and do it well (and yeah, there are those that don't too....we can argue that back and forth all day). 

The problem is this:  The people that pay their premiums are also the ones that are paying for the people that don't. 

Does that sound familiar....like the 53% that pay taxes vs the 47% that don't debate?  Sure it does. 

IMHO, we need two things in this country.  Healthcare for every LEGAL citizen of this country and a fair tax system so only half the country isn't burdened by the bill for it all. 

The current healthcare system AND the current tax system isn't fair and both need radical change. 

Donald....you can pick yourself up off the floor now. 

[Tropic traveler]

I have been saying for quite a while now that with all the plans, theories, proposals for improving health care in this country there is something VERY important missing in the debate.
WHY NOT TRY TO LOWER THE COST OF HEALTHCARE BEFORE WE THROW OUT THE BABY WITH THE BATHWATER WITH SOCIALIZED MEDICINE????????
The greatest indictment of the God-awful Obamacare plan is it's total lack of real cost cutting measures, it just assumes the costs of the procedures can never come down. It's all about control which is what it is really all about with the lefties anyways. Haven't heard many serious proposals from the other side either concerning HC.
Tort reform, loser pays, loosening the rules of competition among insurance companies, electronic shared medical records, etc. the list goes on. Try some common sense solutions FIRST!!!!  

[BF]

I have been saying for quite a while now that with all the plans, theories, proposals for improving health care in this country there is something VERY important missing in the debate.
WHY NOT TRY TO LOWER THE COST OF HEALTHCARE BEFORE WE THROW OUT THE BABY WITH THE BATHWATER WITH SOCIALIZED MEDICINE????????
The greatest indictment of the God-awful Obamacare plan is it's total lack of real cost cutting measures, it just assumes the costs of the procedures can never come down. It's all about control which is what it is really all about with the lefties anyways. Haven't heard many serious proposals from the other side either concerning HC.
Tort reform, loser pays, loosening the rules of competition among insurance companies, electronic shared medical records, etc. the list goes on. Try some common sense solutions FIRST!!!!  

Agreed 1000000000%.  But still the problem with the costs is who pays.  Not everyone pays.  That's the other part of the equation. 

Not only is cost a problem, but fairness and balance on who pays is just as important to the debate as the cost is IMHO. 

[Chrisj CMA]

I have been saying for quite a while now that with all the plans, theories, proposals for improving health care in this country there is something VERY important missing in the debate.
WHY NOT TRY TO LOWER THE COST OF HEALTHCARE BEFORE WE THROW OUT THE BABY WITH THE BATHWATER WITH SOCIALIZED MEDICINE????????
The greatest indictment of the God-awful Obamacare plan is it's total lack of real cost cutting measures, it just assumes the costs of the procedures can never come down. It's all about control which is what it is really all about with the lefties anyways. Haven't heard many serious proposals from the other side either concerning HC.
Tort reform, loser pays, loosening the rules of competition among insurance companies, electronic shared medical records, etc. the list goes on. Try some common sense solutions FIRST!!!!  

The problem is what you just said makes sense......the government doesnt understand and wont buy into a policy that requires them to essentially get out of the way.  That would be strong evidence to prove they (the government) are the problem in the first place.

[BF]

I have been saying for quite a while now that with all the plans, theories, proposals for improving health care in this country there is something VERY important missing in the debate.
WHY NOT TRY TO LOWER THE COST OF HEALTHCARE BEFORE WE THROW OUT THE BABY WITH THE BATHWATER WITH SOCIALIZED MEDICINE????????
The greatest indictment of the God-awful Obamacare plan is it's total lack of real cost cutting measures, it just assumes the costs of the procedures can never come down. It's all about control which is what it is really all about with the lefties anyways. Haven't heard many serious proposals from the other side either concerning HC.
Tort reform, loser pays, loosening the rules of competition among insurance companies, electronic shared medical records, etc. the list goes on. Try some common sense solutions FIRST!!!!  

The problem is what you just said makes sense......the government doesnt understand and wont buy into a policy that requires them to essentially get out of the way.  That would be strong evidence to prove they (the government) are the problem in the first place.

The government does do good sometimes.  Military healthcare, Medicare for example.  There are folks that'd probably gut you rather than give up their government run healthcare.  And it does work in a few other contries.  

Although there are examples of government run healthcare gone wrong (and there are plenty to be sure), no one in England has to file for bankruptcy because they get sick.  

The problem is the politicians that tinker with, rob from it, screw with it and use it for votes.  Obama stole 700 BILLION from Medicare.  There are people that are going to do without because of it.  

I don't pretend to have any answers, but I'm pretty sure that the course that we're on is the wrong one.  

[UskCoastie]

I'm sure that the PTB will soon start the full court press to alter our life style.

You know that those Damn motorcicle riders are a bunch of hooligans and always up to no good.   We'll just outlaw motorcicles as they are just too dangerous. We in the Goberm't after all know what is best for everyone.

After all they should pay their fair share of the medical costs for engaging in such a dangerous activity.

[Tropic traveler]

My suggestion would be to reform the tort laws, upgrade the info sharing tech, remove silly interstate insurance laws, & just do whatever needed to allow some competition in the medical field & see what that brings. I have a sneaking suspicion that it would lower costs for EVERYONE allowing those who want or need insurance able to afford it like it used to be.
Give this enough time to work & if it doesn't then let's go another direction.
But MY GOD!, not the monster that is being slowly enacted as planned. 

[BF]

My suggestion would be to reform the tort laws, upgrade the info sharing tech, remove silly interstate insurance laws, & just do whatever needed to allow some competition in the medical field & see what that brings. I have a sneaking suspicion that it would lower costs for EVERYONE allowing those who want or need insurance able to afford it like it used to be.
Give this enough time to work & if it doesn't then let's go another direction.
But MY GOD!, not the monster that is being slowly enacted as planned. 

Allowing insurance companies to cross state lines would go along way to help increase competition no doubt. 

[G-Man]

.
I also splained they had to do so much "pro bono" for tax reasons.

BS!

Dr. Lasher

[G-Man]

We are one of the greatest countries in the world and yet cannot provide care to those in need?

We do provide for those in need.

If you are poor, there is coverage....Medicade
If you are not poor, there is insurance or you have to pay.  
Why does society have to give everything to everybody?  Good health is not a right.  Period.  Unfortunately there are too many that think it is.  A right is not something that someone else is responsible for.  Life, Liberty, and pursuit of happiness are one's own responsibilities, not someone else's.  If someone else has to pay, or give, or sacrifice, for someone else,....it is not a right, it is a tax, or a gift.

The other countries that provide for everyone are not economically strong countries...in fact they limit, ration, decide, etc. etc.  Not everybody get treated.  Not everybody gets well.  THIS is reality.  I keep hearing comparisons to Canada.  Only 40% of Canadians receive the care they need WHEN THEY NEED IT.  The rest wait and hope they get it before it's too late.  And when they question the 40%, they say it's great.  Question the other 60% and see what their answer is.  England and France, going broke.  Spain and Greece, broke.  Should the USA follow these examples?

[G-Man]

WHY NOT TRY TO LOWER THE COST OF HEALTHCARE .........

The only way to do this is to get the gov't out of it!  As soon as the gov't gets involved with anything, the costs skyrocket.  $400 hammers, $14 muffins, farm subsidies, oil, etc.

Gov't should never be involved and surely never pick industries to back or subsidize.

[G-Man]

Agreed 1000000000%.  But still the problem with the costs is who pays.  Not everyone pays.  That's the other part of the equation. 

Not only is cost a problem, but fairness and balance on who pays is just as important to the debate as the cost is IMHO. 

Again, this is because the gov't is involved.  Get the gov't out of the equation!

[G-Man]

I have been saying for quite a while now that with all the plans, theories, proposals for improving health care in this country there is something VERY important missing in the debate.
WHY NOT TRY TO LOWER THE COST OF HEALTHCARE BEFORE WE THROW OUT THE BABY WITH THE BATHWATER WITH SOCIALIZED MEDICINE????????
The greatest indictment of the God-awful Obamacare plan is it's total lack of real cost cutting measures, it just assumes the costs of the procedures can never come down. It's all about control which is what it is really all about with the lefties anyways. Haven't heard many serious proposals from the other side either concerning HC.
Tort reform, loser pays, loosening the rules of competition among insurance companies, electronic shared medical records, etc. the list goes on. Try some common sense solutions FIRST!!!!  

The problem is what you just said makes sense......the government doesnt understand and wont buy into a policy that requires them to essentially get out of the way.  That would be strong evidence to prove they (the government) are the problem in the first place.

I love you MAN!!!!!!!

[BF]

We are one of the greatest countries in the world and yet cannot provide care to those in need?

We do provide for those in need.

If you are poor, there is coverage....Medicade
If you are not poor, there is insurance or you have to pay.  
Why does society have to give everything to everybody?  Good health is not a right.  Period.  Unfortunately there are too many that think it is.  A right is not something that someone else is responsible for.  Life, Liberty, and pursuit of happiness are one's own responsibilities, not someone else's.  If someone else has to pay, or give, or sacrifice, for someone else,....it is not a right, it is a tax, or a gift.

The other countries that provide for everyone are not economically strong countries...in fact they limit, ration, decide, etc. etc.  Not everybody get treated.  Not everybody gets well.  THIS is reality.  I keep hearing comparisons to Canada.  Only 40% of Canadians receive the care they need WHEN THEY NEED IT.  The rest wait and hope they get it before it's too late.  And when they question the 40%, they say it's great.  Question the other 60% and see what their answer is.  England and France, going broke.  Spain and Greece, broke.  Should the USA follow these examples?

To use your vernacular, BS! 

To name just one......Germany is no where near going broke.