Gasoline on the fire

[old2soon]

Maybe not a good lead in.  Am i the only one that thinks it's wrong to lift the ban on gays in the Boy Scouts of America?? With all the problems of gay sex in schools churches and other places why invite the problem in?? We don't need anymore Sanduskys anywhere. Yeah you got it right-not comfortable around gay folks. And now as the saying goes-flame suit on!! RIDE SAFE.

[Serk]

I'm a Libertarian. I believe the scouts have the right to decide who they want in their organization (As long as they're not using public funds or facilities to do so.)

Having said that, until/unless they drop their ban on gay and non-religious people participating, my sons will NOT be scouts, and I will not willingly give the BSA a single cent.

[cookiedough]

I knew about gays not being allowed in boy scouts, but didn't know about the non-religious not being allowed in.  Does that mean if, just for example,  say my kids do not go to church or not baptized or not belong to any religion and even say an atheist, they cannot be in boy scouts?

[steve 3054]

Go ahead and send your kids, they can be taught the finner points of being gay...

I'm all for equality, and fairness I just don't want it shoved up my a$$...no pun intended...don't ask don't tell...what a novel ideal.

[biguglyman]

Just because someone is gay doesn't make them a pedophile. I've known quite a few gay people over the years and they're as sickened by child abuse as straight people.

[Robert]

Since gays were taken off the DSM manual in 73 it has been a gradual adopting of gay ways in society. To the point that Barbra Walters has a show with a 11 year old transgender child dealing with telling a boy that she/he has a crush on him and that he may be interested in him. With some dealings  or texting with what the equipment he/she has.  Fisting is being taught in schools and gay acceptance also.  Gay marriage is in a few states now and millions if not billions of dollars is being spent to destigmatize gay marriage, or given to legislators. We are already having it forced on us by legislators and courts regardless if we want it or not. So the boyscout s changing policy is really in line with society and may actually help some kids looking for stability in a crazy world. Values are lived and taught by example not only in words and children have been a battle ground for adoption of new ways. The founding principles that a organization was founded with should reflect those values and ideas. But not accepting others with different ideas and ways makes that organization closed to some and not able to spread those ideals to all. Anyone who wants to change society cannot sit in exclusion and expect things to change. Hitler said if I have your young I have your society and dont need the parents. So a friendly organization that supports good values and behavior while teaching these values to all may be just the thing we need.

[Xtracho]

Just because someone is gay doesn't make them a pedophile. I've known quite a few gay people over the years and they're as sickened by child abuse as straight people.

Hang on just a second. First, let's call it what it is....it is homosexuality. I'm sick and tired of the language being bastardized to make something that many consider deviant a more acceptable practice. There is nothing "gay" about it.

Additionally, The Toronto Center for Mental Health and Addiction says its studies strongly suggest that pedophilia is a sexual orientation. In other words, it is on par for causation factors with heterosexuality and homosexuality. Other experts are chiming in agreeing that pedophilia should be classified as a sexual orientation. This includes Johns Hopkins in Baltimore. So in the interest of "equality" will we be expected to accept pedophilia, and label pedophiles as a protected class? I mean if the same mechanism that renders one hetero or homo also creates pedophiles, then there is really no distinction other than the preference of partners to which they are attracted. How can you bestow equality on one class of one sexual orientation while denying it to another if the cause or predisposition is the same?

[WilliamRS]

there are already gays in the boy scouts.  the ban is on anyone who is openly gay.  Just like there were always gays in the military...the ban was on anyone who was openly gay.

Being an adult hetro doesn't necessarily equal sexual interest in little girls, being an adult gay doesn't necessarily equal sexual interest in little boys.

imo having secretly gay adults (what other secrets are they harboring) around our kids poses a higher risk than someone who is openly gay

[Varmintmist]

I knew about gays not being allowed in boy scouts, but didn't know about the non-religious not being allowed in.  Does that mean if, just for example,  say my kids do not go to church or not baptized or not belong to any religion and even say an atheist, they cannot be in boy scouts?

You need to believe in something other than yourself. It DOES NOT mean that you have to be a practicing anything, if it did I wouldnt be a troop commitee chairman for the last 4 years and a den leader for 6.

Anyone who thinks this is a good idea, please tell me if you think it would be a good idea to put a 18 year old man in charge of 13-17 year old girls. Sure nothing MAY happen, and it might be OK to weld near a gas pump.
Scenario, Scoutmaster Fruit (SF) is with the scouts, while Committee Chair Norm (CCN) is nearby. SF is assisting with a first aid drill. CCN thinks SF is getting a bit personal, and tells him.
Outcomes:
1, SF says OK and all is good.
2, SF is offended and since he is so centered on his sexuality that he has forced himself into where he wasnt wanted 6 months ago, CCN and the BSA now have to deal with a discrimination lawsuit.

There are WAY to many things that can go wrong, EVEN if the worst never happens.

You are dealing with a bunch of boys whos teachers and parents have excused all bad behavior on ADD (which is horseapples in 99.999995%). Scouting has worked and worked better than any other private or public organization for years in turning out boys who are a little more ready to be adults. You DO NOT need to make it harder on the boys by playing utopian social engineer.

[Valker]

Boy Scouts is a private organization. My larger question is "Who gave the government the power to say anything at all about it?"

[Serk]

Boy Scouts is a private organization. My larger question is "Who gave the government the power to say anything at all about it?"

No one. That question was settled in Boy Scouts vs. Dale by the Supreme Court in 2000:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_v._Dale

held that the constitutional right to freedom of association allows a private organization like the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) to exclude a person from membership when "the presence of that person affects in a significant way the group's ability to advocate public or private viewpoints."

This thread is in reference to a story that the BSA is considering voluntarily ending their ban, no one is forcing them to:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/28/boy-scouts-america-considering-dropping-its-ban-on-gay-members/

[saddlesore]

  I just wish gays would go back in the closet.  I don't want to know what they do in the bedroom and I don't want to know what you and your wife do in the bedroom. 
  If you are unsure of sending your sons to the BSA you surely must be afraid to send them to church.
   Homosexuality isn't right but molesting children under the guise of religion then covering it up and/or sending the pedophiles to another church is abominable.
  Point is, there is no safe place to send your kids and shield them from the rest of the world.

[Jess from VA]

I always thought the problem was gay scoutmasters, not gay scouts.

[Big Rig]

Really??? Seriously why is there a need to make organozations change to accomodate everyone? If you want in, then abide by the rules. If you dont like the rules start your own club. Nothing says you can not do that. All their rules and regs can be found on line, I do not believe they are copy written.  Why is a need to make them change their rules bc they do not suit your needs? The scouts are a religion based org, they do not say what religion just a belief in god.
I am sure I will be viewed differently but I really dont care...there is too much of this stuff going on lately...

I know if there is a group that does not believe as I do, I do not go in trying to change them, I just stay away. I do not belong to any Harley Groups..and I certainly would not go in telling them they have to accept metric bikes.

Flame suit is on and zipped and rant is over....ps...scouts teach boys gun safety...

[Jeff K]

Our scout master wasn't gay, he was queer as a 3 dollar bill. It was the 60s Queer was the old normal. But though we all knew it, he didn't come out of the closet, we just all knew. It didn't stop us from going camping with him. We just giggled at him behind his back like good little monsters. Did he molest anyone? I don't know if he did, but I must not have been his type if he did. 

The bigger problem was his stuttering, it would take hours for him to give us a speech, We would drift from standing at Attention, to slouched, to sitting on the floor by the time he finished. 

[Serk]

I always thought the problem was gay scoutmasters, not gay scouts.

Nope, they ban gay scouts, not just scoutmasters.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/04/14224160-almost-eagle-scout-denied-award-because-he-is-gay?lite

Once again, I will defend their right to do what they wish with their private organization, but I will not be a part of it nor support it in any way until/unless they change. (On the gay AND religion fronts.)

[da prez]

being gay is a liftstyle. they are less of a predator. I AM HAPPILY MARRIED AND MY WIFE AND I HAVE A couple of gay friends and know several others. They are hard working *and in many cases  VERY WEALTHY* I have no problem with them.
                                                                   da prez and wife

[Alien]

  If you are unsure of sending your sons to the BSA you surely must be afraid to send them to church.

I wouldn't subject my worst enemy, much less my child, to either.

[Clark]

  If you are unsure of sending your sons to the BSA you surely must be afraid to send them to church.

I wouldn't subject my worst enemy, much less my child, to either.

WHY ZAT?

[Xtracho]

 If you are unsure of sending your sons to the BSA you surely must be afraid to send them to church.

I wouldn't subject my worst enemy, much less my child, to either.

Because the BSA prohibits homosexuals? And because you've bought into the myth that religion/church is the causal factor in all wars, murders, plagues, and genocides and basically every other tragic event that has occurred in the last 2 thousand years?

[Alien]

 If you are unsure of sending your sons to the BSA you surely must be afraid to send them to church.

I wouldn't subject my worst enemy, much less my child, to either.

Because the BSA prohibits homosexuals? And because you've bought into the myth that religion/church is the causal factor in all wars, murders, plagues, and genocides and basically every other tragic event that has occurred in the last 2 thousand years?

Um...YEP!

[Clark]

 If you are unsure of sending your sons to the BSA you surely must be afraid to send them to church.

I wouldn't subject my worst enemy, much less my child, to either.

Because the BSA prohibits homosexuals? And because you've bought into the myth that religion/church is the causal factor in all wars, murders, plagues, and genocides and basically every other tragic event that has occurred in the last 2 thousand years?

are your kids gay?

[Alien]

I don't have any kids.

[john]

                         no problem with gays ?...
         " Fisting is being taught in schools "
         someone please explain this to me ...
                   43 years since i was in school     

[donaldcc]

  Never really liked boy scouts.  in my little town there was a troop.  as a young kid i joined.  got uniform and went to 1st or 2nd mtg and we had to "stand inspection" to make sure our uniform was just right, etc.  a guy 2 years older than me gave me crap about something with my outfit and i quit the next week, thinking who the f does he think he is?

  had some similar experiences about 20 years later in the navy where i did my time and got out.

  the  scouts position on gays has been archaic for a while.  i suspect their change is motivated by $$$.  if a gay man or woman can go get killed in some bs war fighting for my freedoms, then i respect them.

[FLAVALK]

If we all went gay, this wouldn't be an issue 

But then, sooner or later,  some religious zealot would come along, hire an attorney, insist (force) us to recognize him and his agenda, and allow him (or her) to join one of our sacred organizations. Reluctantly we would be forced by law to allow it.

No, it would never work that way. Today, progressive, civilized people understand that "those of faith" are just weird, twisted individuals who should be excluded from the mainstream. They simply should not to be tolerated.

(spoken with tongue firmly in check) 

[czuch]

Homos are 4% of the population at best!!!
I dont care who you wake up with or what bars you go to. Boy Scouts teach all kinds of useable knoweledge and if someone has something to offer, so be it.
Camping, trees, mountains, woodcraft, first aid, shooting, trapping, cooking, accident prevention.
I was in Sea scouts. Overboard rescue,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,or not.

[Chrisj CMA]

I think its an unfortunate but needed step for the Boy Scouts to remove the ban.  Needed because unfortunately our society has gone so far to moralize and justify homosexuality, it is part of mainstream society.  So to NOT exclude a big part of our now demented society from the benefits if a wholesome environment I think gays should be let in even though its an unfortunate situation.

What shouldnt happen, is...the Boy Scouts should NOT have any lectures, classes or any sort of energy spent on normalizing homosexuality.  Just as they didnt talk about normal sex, they should not say anything.  Let them in and go on with the mission of the Boy Scouts.  Also they should not back off on holding to a belief in God.  If being asked to support a belief in God offends a homosexual, they are free to depart the club just as they are free to enter it.

[Jess from VA]

Haha, Don, my troop met at and was sponsored by Grosse Ile Naval Air Station (prop planes only, now long gone).  A great gym and a double Olympic size indoor pool.  Each summer, our troop was invited for a week to stay in an old style open barracks... Navy basic training was taught there in small groups (not like Great Lakes), and we were taught close order drill by a Marine DI, with all the foul language removed.  LOL  Stood inspections too.  I loved it, as did my peers.   I rose to Sr patrol leader, and loved the fieldcraft and camping (not so much the meetings).  Our scoutmaster may have been gay, we never knew and nothing untoward  ever happened.  The knowledge of drill helped out when I hit the USAF 20 years later.... and you never saw anything funnier than 50 new direct appointee Jag lieutenants attempting to march for the first, second or third times on the 120* flightline in AL....... I think we only did it four times. 

I suppose I agree with Jeff on this (for scouts not scoutmasters), but no normalizing or teaching gay lifestyle or practice.  I later had to deal with first term enlisted men molesting and sodomizing their roommates, which was certainly conduct to the prejudice of good order and discipline.  We ask mothers and fathers to send us their sons, and promise to take care of them the best we can in return.  Open gayness is now the norm, but nonconsensual sodomy is still a crime.

So I have mixed emotions on the subject.