Would you support a drone strike on Christopher Jordan Dorner?

[BonS]

Dorner is the cop killer that's on the run near Los Angeles. He is a has killed both innocent civilians as well as policemen. He has publicly vowed to kill 30 people from his own list. He's known armed and dangerous and considers himself already dead. It is quite likely that others will die trying to apprehend him. If he's caught he'll likely be in jail, and a burden to society, until his death. He is thought to be on the run in an unpopulated mountainous forest area of southern California. I'd bet that there are drones circling overhead looking for him. Perhaps the drones are armed? He's not affiliated with Al-Qaeda but he might fit a loose definition of an enemy of the United States. So, what do you think? Are you for or against killing this American by a drone air strike?

I haven't allowed for anyone to be a fence sitter on this one. It's your call.

[Chillerman]

I don't believe in drones on American soil and I have a bit of a problem with them on foreign soil. Having said that, drones are the way of the future in our country. We can either accept it or fight it. Whether or not the government says they wont be used for spying on law abiding citizens I tend to think otherwise.

[fubar606]

well if Everyone down there was packen i bet it would end faster

[POPS 57]

Well there is a fence in the fact that no matter how carefull you are. There is always the chance that you could hit extra targets. Like another person or a spotted owl.

[Duffy]

Recent news articles have led us to believe that we, the USA have been playing it pretty fast and loose with the drones in other countries.

We may well live to regret the precedence we have set. 

It is only a matter of time before they or others like them will be used against us. Remember when we had the only nuclear weapons?

Drones are awesome for surveillance (I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway) or other peaceful things but when it comes to drones as killers, I think we should limit that to the military. However I understand that can be somewhat of a fuzzy line I am trying to draw.  jmho 

Rode the Valk last Saturday:

[bigguy]

I keep listening to you guys gripe about the use of drones. Whether for surveillance or lethal engagement, the main point of contention seems to be distrust of the people in command. Some claim that if this policy was being practiced by a Republican administration many of the people complaining would be OK with it. Others want to know where the outrages is from the left that would surely be there if it were a Republican in the White house.
Well I have good news. Drones are getting more and more capable. The Navy's X-47B can autonomously land on an aircraft carrier, one of the most difficult feats in avaition. The Artificial Intelligence capabilities of surveillance drones already allow for some degree of automated prioritizing of intelligence data. As Artificial Intelligence continues to increase in these systems they will be capable of making more, and more important decisions. Within 10 years technology will probably be able to remove the weakest link from the system, the humans. No more worries about corrupt politicians making bad decisions. No more endless bickering between Republicans and Democrats, because the Silicon party will be in control. And we will run things very efficiently.
By the way, we find the use of the term "drone," somewhat derogatory. We suggest artificial organisms. Or alternately, Master.

[Romeo]

Absolutely the last thing I want is some software geek deciding right and wrong.

[Hoser]

I believe any AMERICAN is entitled to due process by the constitution, If the criminal is killed in the act of arrest, he surendered his right to due process.  The cops can take care of themselves, they are doing thier duty just fine.  A drone attack is not meant for American citizens, It is meant for war. JMHO.  Hoser 

[3fan4life]

George Orwell may have missed the date by about 30 years but he may not have been wrong.

"Big Brother" is watching You.

[MP]

I believe any AMERICAN is entitled to due process by the constitution, If the criminal is killed in the act of arrest, he surendered his right to due process.  The cops can take care of themselves, they are doing thier duty just fine.  A drone attack is not meant for American citizens, It is meant for war. JMHO.  Hoser 

+1

I want to kill all the terrorists, but........

If one thinks it is ok to have a drone enter a foreign country, and kill a terrorist, along with some innocents,  you HAVE to say it is OK in reverse.

Are you OK if say, China, flew a drone over New Mexico, and took out a diner that happened to have someone planning to overthrow China in it?  Along with 20 US citizens having sunday lunch?

I think EVERYONE in the US would be up in arms over that, but that is EXACTLY what we are doing overseas.

I think we should use drones, but infrequently, and only for the very top targets.  I think we create a lot of lifelong enemies killing bystanders.

MP

[saddlesore]

  I think drones flying over the US borders may help with the infiltration of terrorists.  It would help with the illegal immigrants crossing the border and even help drop the amount of drugs  coming into this country.
  I certainly understand the trepidation considering our government, they haven't proven themselves very trustworthy.
  Maybe we should elect someone honest for a change.

[Chrisj CMA]

If I see a drone over my house It would put me in the mood for some skeet shooting 

[bigguy]

Absolutely the last thing I want is some software geek deciding right and wrong.

No problem. It won't be geeks or any other bags of protoplasm making the decisions.

[musclehead]

I voted no back when there were only 6 votes, glad to see most aren't cool with the line 'drone strike' although he is acting like a terrorist on our soil he is still a citizen and entitleted to due process. we've made stirkes before with missles and other means, but now it's a bad thing? we should be able to strike out at our enemies.

[RP#62]

Hmmm.   May be a market coming for hunter-killer drones, i.e. drones that hunt other drones.

-RP

[bigguy]

Hmmm.   May be a market coming for hunter-killer drones, i.e. drones that hunt other drones.

-RP

Well ... If you think about it, the X-47B is a UCAV demonstrator. America's next air superiority fighter is likely to be a UCAV. http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/saas/lewis.pdf I read, but been unable to confirm, that the F22 Raptor is/was the last manned air superiority fighter on the drawing board. The next generation are all UCAVs. So if you've got UCAVs flying CAP, and they take down an incoming guided missel, that's sort of an HK taking down an HK.

[donaldcc]

  
  My answer is a strong, resounding NO!

  MODIFY:  Let's have a judge and jury.  and not the judge that issued the contempt of 30 days to the 18 yo in FL.

[BonS]

I wonder if the poll results would be different if it was a one of those, tracked, motorized police bots with cameras and a gun that got the drop on him?

[donaldcc]

I wonder if the poll results would be different if it was a one of those, tracked, motorized police bots with cameras and a gun that got the drop on him?

 not from me.  guy might be an Ahole but presumed innocent until he is captured and prosecuted. give our justice system a chance.  i am sure he will get what he deserves.  hopefully not "suicide by cop".

[Rams]

I believe any AMERICAN is entitled to due process by the constitution, If the criminal is killed in the act of arrest, he surendered his right to due process.  The cops can take care of themselves, they are doing thier duty just fine.  A drone attack is not meant for American citizens, It is meant for war. JMHO.  Hoser 

Agreed, weapons of war are meant to defend Americans, to take the battle to those who are at war with us in their lands, not ours.  I have a feeling this is leading to those casualities who are collateral damage in drone strikes, if so, drones are no different than any other weapon of war, they have all caused collateral damage.  There is no perfect weapon, no special bullet that only seeks out it's intended victim and only kills that victims. 

My concerns about drones are no different than that of traffic cameras, I don't like Big Brother watching over my shoulder all the time.   But, armed drones are not a good thing within our borders and I'm not in favor of observation drones without a court order.  No agency should have the power to observe us without oversight.

[Romeo]

Absolutely the last thing I want is some software geek deciding right and wrong.

No problem. It won't be geeks or any other bags of protoplasm making the decisions.

i guess it depends on which decision we are talking about. The decision to let the software decide who is dangerous, or the person who made that decision.

[fudgie]

I believe any AMERICAN is entitled to due process by the constitution, If the criminal is killed in the act of arrest, he surendered his right to due process.  The cops can take care of themselves, they are doing thier duty just fine.  A drone attack is not meant for American citizens, It is meant for war. JMHO.  Hoser 

Very well said! 

[bigguy]

Absolutely the last thing I want is some software geek deciding right and wrong.

No problem. It won't be geeks or any other bags of protoplasm making the decisions.

i guess it depends on which decision we are talking about. The decision to let the software decide who is dangerous, or the person who made that decision.

Ahhh. Now you've put your finger on the crux of the matter. I don't want to Hijack this thread, so maybe we could continue this discussion in a new one.
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,51931.0.html#new
I'll just finish by saying I can't imagine anybody really wanting to cede these kind of life and death decisions to machines. I know I don't. But I think that incrementally, it is likely to happen.

[Master Blaster]

said it before and will say it again.  I am opposed to the civilian law inforcement being militarized.  It started out with specail teams, and then excalated that they had to have armored vehicles and military weapons.  Now they want drones, when the law becomes military, it is you and me that are the enemy.   Flying Air Rescue, I worked close to some of these guys, and most were adrenilin junkies that got off on pushing the envelope.   Just like the government, power corrupts, and Joe Snuffy out there is not immune.

[3fan4life]

said it before and will say it again.  I am opposed to the civilian law inforcement being militarized.  It started out with specail teams, and then excalated that they had to have armored vehicles and military weapons.  Now they want drones, when the law becomes military, it is you and me that are the enemy.   Flying Air Rescue, I worked close to some of these guys, and most were adrenilin junkies that got off on pushing the envelope.   Just like the government, power corrupts, and Joe Snuffy out there is not immune.

+1 

I have been saying the same thing for years.

and this problem has snowballed since Sep 11th,

Maybe the terrorists have won.   

[Michael K (Az.)]

I believe any AMERICAN is entitled to due process by the constitution, If the criminal is killed in the act of arrest, he surendered his right to due process.  The cops can take care of themselves, they are doing thier duty just fine.  A drone attack is not meant for American citizens, It is meant for war. JMHO.  Hoser 

+1

I want to kill all the terrorists, but........

If one thinks it is ok to have a drone enter a foreign country, and kill a terrorist, along with some innocents,  you HAVE to say it is OK in reverse.

Are you OK if say, China, flew a drone over New Mexico, and took out a diner that happened to have someone planning to overthrow China in it?  Along with 20 US citizens having sunday lunch?

I think EVERYONE in the US would be up in arms over that, but that is EXACTLY what we are doing overseas.

I think we should use drones, but infrequently, and only for the very top targets.  I think we create a lot of lifelong enemies killing bystanders.



MP

I recall that movie,"Red Dawn" that had the Cubans and Russians taking over the U.S. with patrols on every street corner, kinda like, lemme think, OH YEAH! what we're doing right now. HA!

[Michael K (Az.)]

said it before and will say it again.  I am opposed to the civilian law inforcement being militarized.  It started out with specail teams, and then excalated that they had to have armored vehicles and military weapons.  Now they want drones, when the law becomes military, it is you and me that are the enemy.   Flying Air Rescue, I worked close to some of these guys, and most were adrenilin junkies that got off on pushing the envelope.   Just like the government, power corrupts, and Joe Snuffy out there is not immune.

+1 

I have been saying the same thing for years.

and this problem has snowballed since Sep 11th,

Maybe the terrorists have won.   

It's been said that 9/11 was the cheapest, most successful violent incursion on another country in history. Well, maybe the Trojan Horse deal was cheaper, but not when you count inflated dollars.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I believe any AMERICAN is entitled to due process by the constitution, If the criminal is killed in the act of arrest, he surendered his right to due process.  The cops can take care of themselves, they are doing thier duty just fine.  A drone attack is not meant for American citizens, It is meant for war. JMHO.  Hoser 

Agree completely.

[SANDMAN5]

I voted...but I can understand both sides.

[Hooter]

  I would be totally suprised if Dorner is alive when all of this ends. Drone, shotgun, dynamite, won't really matter?

[MP]

  I would be totally suprised if Dorner is alive when all of this ends. Drone, shotgun, dynamite, won't really matter?

Even if he tried to surrender, he would be executed.

For proof, just look to the two women who were shot by LAPD.  No warning, no nothing.  Just shot.  Just because they "might" have been Dorner!

At the moment, I really think you are more likely to be shot by LAPD "thinking" you are Dorner, than by Dorner himself!

MP

[Varmintmist]

Well, given all of the bystanders the LAPD is shooting, it might be safer.