Facts re. the Vietnam Memorial Wall.

[John Schmidt]

I think the Vietnam Memorial Wall is something this country got right. Read on . . .

A little history most people will never know.

Interesting Veterans Statistics off the Vietnam Memorial Wall

There are 58,267 names now listed on that polished black wall, including those added in 2010.

The names are arranged in the order in which they were taken from us by date and within each date the names are alphabetized.

It is hard to believe it is 36 years since the last casualties.

The first known casualty was Richard B. Fitzgibbon, of North Weymouth, Mass. Listed by the U.S. Department of Defense as having been killed on June 8, 1956.
His name is listed on the Wall with that of his son, Marine Corps Lance Cpl. Richard B. Fitzgibbon III, who was killed on Sept. 7, 1965.

There are three sets of fathers and sons on the Wall.

39,996 on the Wall were just 22 or younger.

8,283 were just 19 years old.

The largest age group, 33,103 were 18 years old.

12 soldiers on the Wall were 17 years old.

5 soldiers on the Wall were 16 years old.

One soldier, PFC Dan Bullock was 15 years old.

997 soldiers were killed on their first day in Vietnam ..

1,448 soldiers were killed on their last day in Vietnam ..

31 sets of brothers are on the Wall.

Thirty one sets of parents lost two of their sons.

54 soldiers attended Thomas Edison High School in Philadelphia .

8 Women are on the Wall. Nursing the wounded.

244 soldiers were awarded the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War; 153 of them are on the Wall.

Beallsville , Ohio with a population of 475 lost 6 of her sons.

West Virginia had the highest casualty rate per capita in the nation. There are 711 West Virginians on the Wall.

The Marines of Morenci - They led some of the scrappiest high school football and basketball teams that the little Arizona copper town of Morenci (pop. 5,058) had ever known and cheered. They enjoyed roaring beer busts. In quieter moments, they rode horses along the Coronado Trail, stalked deer in the Apache National Forest . And in the patriotic camaraderie typical of Morenci's mining families, the nine graduates of Morenci High enlisted as a group in the Marine Corps. Their service began on Independence Day, 1966. Only 3 returned home.

The Buddies of Midvale - LeRoy Tafoya, Jimmy Martin ez, Tom Gonzales were all boyhood friends and lived on three consecutive streets in Midvale, Utah on Fifth, Sixth and Seventh avenues. They lived only a few yards apart. They played ball at the adjacent sandlot ball field. And they all went to Vietnam . In a span of 16 dark days in late 1967, all three would be killed. LeRoy was killed on Wednesday, Nov. 22, the fourth anniversary of John F. Kennedy's assassination. Jimmy died less than 24 hours later on Thanksgiving Day. Tom was shot dead assaulting the enemy on Dec. 7, Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day.

The most casualty deaths for a single day was on January 31, 1968 ~ 245 deaths.

The most casualty deaths for a single month was May 1968 - 2,415 casualties were incurred.

For most Americans who read this they will only see the numbers that the Vietnam War created. To those of us who survived the war, and to the families of those who did not, we see the faces, we feel the pain that these numbers created. We are, until we too pass away, haunted with these numbers, because they were our friends, fathers, husbands, wives, sons and daughters. (and brothers)

There are no noble wars, just noble warriors.

[buffalobill]

John,
Thank you for this article. I was too young to enlist then, but I was on my knees in front of my Grand fathers sofa praying for those heroes every night after the news. I remember the footage and cumulative death numbers and watching my Grandpa cry. I did too, and joined the Navy, June of 1978, 5 days after my graduation I was in boot camp.
Man, I wish people spent more time on their knees now...

[John Schmidt]

[size=12pt]"Man, I wish people spent more time on their knees now..."[/size]

I agree, I do every day. I learned it from my parents, my dad could move mountains it seemed with his prayers. 

[old2soon]

Got some water in my eyes from reading this. While minor compared to the overall death rates these be family and friend.
    James R. Tremayne Major Army Infantry 8-1-35 4-17-67 Died in Vietnam my Cousin
    Vince"Tiny"Meltzer LCPL United Staes Marine Corps 1-24-47 10-27-67 Died in Vietnam a Friend
    Their names are on the wall alomg with 58265 others. May their sacrifice NOT been in vain and
    may they FOREVER REST IN PEACE. Jim-Tiny i miss you guys

[3fan4life]

I have two brothers who served in Vietnam, one in '67 and the other in '68.

The second was on his way to Nam as the other one was on his way home.

Thankfully they both survived their tours and returned home.

To this day they are both haunted by memories of friends that weren't as fortunate.


My oldest brother seems to live with the most demons, someday I would like to go with him to the "Wall".

But, I don't believe that he is ready to go there yet. 

[old2soon]

I have two brothers who served in Vietnam, one in '67 and the other in '68.

The second was on his way to Nam as the other one was on his way home.

Thankfully they both survived their tours and returned home.

To this day they are both haunted by memories of friends that weren't as fortunate.


My oldest brother seems to live with the most demons, someday I would like to go with him to the "Wall".

But, I don't believe that he is ready to go there yet. 

Your brother is by no means alone in his not being ready to go visit the wall. I have guys i ride with that are Nam vets that have exactly ZERO desire to go to the wall. I've been. It was the least i could do for family and friends.

[Billinva]

I've been to the Wall several times during Rolling Thunder. I don't know anybody on the wall, but it was obvious that many people in the crowd did know someone.

The other day in Lowes I talked to a guy on a scooter that was looking for a piece of wood for a project. We talked about his project and a few other things. He told me that he couldn't walk due to a nearby explosion in  Nam. He still had schrapnel in his leg and back. I wish I had offered to go to his house and help him with his project.

[olddog1946]

While at my last duty station in 88 I got to go to DC in preparation for the turnover of the radar site in Neah Bay, Wa. to the FAA. That is another story all it's own.  However, being there for just over a week allowed me the opportunity to visit the Wall.  What an experience, my best friend growing up was listed there along with a few of my buddies from Det 3, 619 Tactical Control Squadron in Bhin Thuiy, RVN.  I hope I get the opportunity to visit it again one day.  Come to think of it, I wouldn't mind going back to Nam as well. Should be a lot more enjoyable as a tourist.

[steve 3054]

My father did two tours of Nam...he did not die there but died of a result of being there, cancer...

[RP#62]

Thanks John.
This one still chokes me up.
-RP

[old2soon]

Here it is ALL these years later and i still CAN NOT control nor understand the emotions that the talking about and the pictures or the remebering invoke in me. I'm sitting in front of my computer staring at the words thru tears that are getting more frquent as i get older. Unasked more times than i care to admit to comes the smell of the operaters compartment of a Grumman S 2 D. The not quite synced sound of 2 Wright R 1820-82 As. Looking out that little window for people that my Aircraft Commander will do hurt to them BEFORE they can hurt us or the troops on the ground. The pushover of the begining of the rocket attack that puts your stomach at the back of your throat. The pull off that slams your ass back into the seat. Craneing my head around as the A/C puts it on one wing and then the other looking for secondary explosions. And the feeling of a job well done when we got good secondary explosions. I was too young and too dumb to be scared. Besides-didn't have time to get scared. Least ways not til about 2005 or 2006. Funny how that crap comes out of it's little locked compartment unexpected unbidden and unloved. And to this day i DO NOT regret ANYTHING i've done over there. Leastways don't think i do. PEACE. RIDE SAFE.

[John Schmidt]

Thanks John.
This one still chokes me up.
-RP

Me too RP. I've seen it before and it always gets to me.

[donaldcc]

  one of my close relatives name is there.  brought my daughter to tears when she saw it.

MODIFY:  Brings tears to my eyes remembering.  

[Willow]

...
There are no noble wars, just noble warriors.

It was a good remembrance right up until the end when the author (I assume it's not you, John) decided to insert a general anti-war sentiment.

There have been times in our history (and the history of other nations) when brave men rose up to oppose what was wrong in noble causes.  That is what makes the warrior noble.  Whether the Vietnam conflict was of itself one of those noble causes is a question that will spark strongly emotional arguments.  Other will not so much.  The war for American independence, the war to liberate Europe, and others are identified easily as noble causes, noble wars.

To declare that "there are no noble wars" is to say that our heroes gave their lives foolishly for ignoble purposes.  It insults those who bravely answered their country's call.  

[da prez]

 The traveling wall was in Round Lake Illinois in 1992 (I think) It was the last day there . I (we) did not get there until after it started to get dark. The wife , daughter (born in 1970) and I. They had flashlights. I walked the wall in the dark and then walking back I turned the flashlight . It shined on a name, Harold Nye. I was in advanced training with him in Aberdeen Maryland. Harold was from Texas ( I did not hold that against him)
With over 58000 names on the wall, how could I spot his name! I looked it up in the register and got his info. I am sorry that I never tried to contact his family. This story always gives me the chills!

                                    da prez

[G-Man]

I have been to all of the memorials in D.C. over the years.  The WWII memorial is fan-snugglin-tastic.  I had a reaction to the Vietnam War memorial that was unexpected.  When you approach the "wall" from either side, it's only as high as your boot and there are some names stacked.  As you proceed down the wall, the wall gets taller and taller until you reach the middle where it was over my head (and I'm 6'4").  So many names, so many grandfathers, fathers, brothers, sons, husbands, boyfriends, brofriends, etc.  So many.  I was too young to understand what was going on at that time in history (I'm 48), but the names, .....all those names, got to me.  And for what?  Like Springsteen said, "They're still there and he's all gone"  All gone!  

[MacDragon]

I was, just barely, too young to go to Vietnam... but my brother did.  He is not on the wall... he came back.  He, however, did not come back the same person as many did not.  He was haunted by the experience every day of his life, but tried his best to live with it within his own means.  We lost him to heart failure a few years ago and I now ride his Valk which I'll keep for as long as it will let me.  RIP Mac.

[Skinhead]

I was, just barely, too young to go to Vietnam... but my brother did.  He is not on the wall... he came back.  He, however, did not come back the same person as many did not.  He was haunted by the experience every day of his life, but tried his best to live with it within his own means.  We lost him to heart failure a few years ago and I now ride his Valk which I'll keep for as long as it will let me.  RIP Mac.

Sorry for your loss.  It's nice to have someone watch out for you as you ride.

[slider]

I went to see the wall,but could not make myself walk up to it-to many friends there,to many memories .

[PharmBoy]

No one who went to Vietnam and came back had the privledge of coming back the same person that he was when he went over there.  As for me, that is where I grew up.  That is where I came to realize what was importhant in life.  That is where I learned to give and take orders.  Orders that usually meant saving the life of someone in a scroungy, dirty OD uniform.  We all tried to cover each other's butt while getting the "job" done.  I'm sorry to say that things just didn't always turn out the way that we would have liked.

As for going to the wall, it has taken 44 years before I could even consider it.  I thought about going last year, but it didn't work out.  The trveling wall came to Lawton a few years ago and I could not bring myself to go.  For several years now I have been able to talk about my experiences while there, but I seldom think about it much, only when someone else brings it up.  It is just something that one never really forgets and is much better to be left in that portion of the brain that is seldom brought to the fore...Jim

[Patrick]

Nice post John. I've been there several times early after the dedication. I've never cared for the way they listed the names but understand why it is done that way. Its a very hard place to visit, to many memories.

[Master Blaster]

Vietnam, the war we almost won untill the Pols started micro managing it from Washington.  What a waste they turned it into.  Rules of engagement became impossible and cost many lives.  At the end it turned into a rout, and was shameful to watch.  Not been to the wall, but did go see the portable one that they take around the country mebbey 10 years ago.  The warriors were magnificent, and didnt deserve what they got when they came home.  If they would have unleashed us, it would have been over in a month or two with a great victory, but the Pols just couldnt find the backbone to get behind and support the troops.

[Patrick]

Yep, you're right MB. I believe we won every battle and still lost the war as well as being treated like chit upon return by both the military and public. I'm at least glad to see that the public is behind our soldiers today.

[John Schmidt]

Correct Carl, it's a "copy/paste." And I agree with the analysis of the author's ending remarks.

[hubcapsc]

I saw the wall once, at midnight, in a deserted DC, a foot of snow had just fallen and
was still falling...

-Mike "probably in 1987"

[old2soon]

Nice post John. I've been there several times early after the dedication. I've never cared for the way they listed the names but understand why it is done that way. Its a very hard place to visit, to many memories.

July 2011 i rode up to my brothers house and we visited and rode together. Went to the town both of us grew up in-Round Lake Illinois. Right where the main street crosses the rail road tracks is a war memorial. A newer war memorial. The newer war memorial says something to the effect of-To all those that have served with honor. Not bad BUT I M H O the old one was a lot better. The old war memorial had the names and dates of ALL the sons of Round Lake Illinois that had died in the service of OUR country-The United States of America. The names-to me anyway-put a truer feeling of the sense of loss suffered by the families and friends. I looked at my brother and asked-who is going to remember now that the names are gone?? When i was in Branson Missouri i went to the war museum there. You walk into this one room to a wall covered in the names of the United States Forces that died in WWII. Saw an uncles name on that wall that i had NEVER met. That for sure and for certain put a tear in my eye. So to me anyway-the names add a truer sense of the REAL cost of a war. RIDE SAFE.

[shortleg]

 It was a tough place to be for a generation that
could have been used better.
  I cry all the time when I read the names and remember
being just young men with those that died.

Shortleg[Dave]

[Phil57]

I went to Marine boot camp in Sept of 1975 and got out in 1979 so I was obviously not in Vietnam. I remember being told when we left MCRD San Diego to not wear our uniform any more than we needed to to avoid being attacked in the airports or other public places. I thought to myself then a kid of 18 what the real warriors coming home had to deal with. I believe that is one of the darkest days in our history and would hope it will never be repeated. I go out of my way to welcome home anyone that has served. I have seen the Wall but only the traveling one and it brought tears to my eyes. I did serve with some true hero's and new some of the struggles they went through. Lots of respect for those guys and girls. Thanks John for sharing and I also agree with the last line in his writing. I just don't confuse Noble with necessary or fought because we ran out of ideas to avoid it. Noble War I don't think so.