Zimmerman's case...

[G-Man]

Been watching the exerpts from the trial and the opinions of paid by TV lawyers debating which side won each day, segment, etc.  As I see it, there is no case against Zimmerman for Murder 2.  I believe it was self defence and justified.  I believe that the procecution over-reached, in hopes of finding a jury willing to convict of a lesser charge, that will give him the same amount of jail time anyway.  They are pretty much banking that the media, Sharpton, Obama, and the rest planted the sead that Zimmerman is a white, racist, vigilanty.

The defence is going to have to make the jury feel what it's like to be beaten up by a stranger.  How when your nose is smashed you get a sensation of it being twisted off your face and the short lived disorientation along with the watering of the eyes, then as your regaining your bearing, your head is being lifted and forced back down onto a concrete side walk, several times. 

As the jury is made up of 6 women, I highly doubt they have ever felt anything like that in their lives (you never know, but I doubt it).  If there was even one man on the jury, he most probably has felt being hit in the nose, even accidentally, at least once.  Or he played a contact sport. 

And I just heard that Zimmerman's information, including social security number, was "accidentally" released by one of the "news" networks.

[R J]

Instead of them using the younger picture of him, they ought to use the latest one.

Tattoes on his neck and side fo his face.   Let's get real people, you encounter something like that and it is threatening your life, ya shoot.........

[FLAVALK]

In order to preserve the peace and keep Sanford from being burned, the state buckled from pressure by the media and minority outrage and felt they had no choice but to try the case......event though they knew they didn't have one. That's the reason Zimmerman wasn't arrested in the first place and why all of the evidence thus far has pointed to self defense. Zimmerman will walk and Sanford will still burn.

[musclehead]

the race baiters are still having kittens about a 'white' guy stalking and killing an unarmed black kid.

as soon as martin swung his fists, he was armed, as soon as zimmerman's head started hitting the concrete it was a deadly weapon.

I was listening to randi rhodes the night this story broke into the national spot light, she is a left wing kook. before they even had any details she was asking "how many more times are black kids going to shot down in the streets by white men?" all the while "begging for their life".

did she ever give a retraction? I wouldn't bet on it, if she gave a retraction on everything she was wrong about she wouldn't have time to do a show

[b/mp]

I agree with everything that's been said. Zimmerman is a scapegoat. As a 29 year Police Officer with  23 years as a Detective who works Homicides I don't believe the Detectives are behind this case. It's all politics and public perception. I hope he wins his lawsuit against the media and of course I hope he is found not guilty. With a jury it's always an unknown unfortunately. It sure seems as though every decision the Judge makes is not going his way. Of course, Obama's out of the country. We once had a local Sheriff do exactly the same thing, when something bad happened he was on vacation immediately.

[Master Blaster]

But remember if Obama had a son, Trevon would be just like him or viseversa, whatever. 

[Fritz The Cat]

America is circling the drain. 

[Patrick]

The talking heads keep bringing up the jury convicting on manslaughter rather than murder 2.  I think Musclehead said Florida was an ' all or nothing ' state, so, I don't know what the heck they're talking about. Maybe they're just full of crap as usual.

I agree that this is all local politics. And, the prosecution appears to be doing all of Zimmerman's attorney's work for him.

[FLAVALK]

The talking heads keep bringing up the jury convicting on manslaughter rather than murder 2.  I think Musclehead said Florida was an ' all or nothing ' state, so, I don't know what the heck they're about. Maybe they're just full of crap as usual.

I agree that this is all local politics. And, the prosecution appears to be doing all of Zimmerman's attorney's work for him.

Zimmerman was only charged with manslaughter. The state did no charge him with anything else, so there is no fallback position. It's manslaughter or nothing.

Correction: Zimmerman is charged with 2nd degree murder, not manslaughter...sorry

[Fudd]

I agree with everyone here.

I don't think the prosecution team thinks he's guilty of murder either.  They are putting on a 'dog and pony show' to appease the 'community'.  The state will put on every relevant witness and ask every question, but let the answers lie where they fall.

I feel bad for Martin's parents.  They may have raised a little gangster, but it still sucks to lose a child.  Hopefully, after hearing the entire story, they will come to an acceptance and get some closure.  Having listened to the rants of the community activists and politicians, they were always going to be haunted that their son was murdered "like a rabid dog in the street," and these proceedings may help them find peace.

But then again, damn the evidence, some people are looking for a conviction...period.  I'd hate to see Sanford become the "L. A. Riots-East" battleground.  

[Patrick]

Now, right after this trial may be the time and place for those russian security forces !

[czuch]

Everything is going as planned. The set  up is in and Sanford will go O.J.
Then, The false flag will be thrown. Read September 1,1939, Polish frontier.
The chaos will be national and the manufactured crisis will be at hand.
Martial law will be enacted and your main man in the whitemosk will pull the drawstring tight,
Then, Patrick,,,,,,,,,Red Dawn, Commerad.
There, I even freaked myself out. Doncha love a good conspiracy?

[Patrick]

Oh, I love a good conspiracy !

[G-Man]

I feel bad for Martin's parents.  They may have raised a little gangster, but it still sucks to lose a child.  Hopefully, after hearing the entire story, they will come to an acceptance and get some closure.  Having listened to the rants of the community activists and politicians, they were always going to be haunted that their son was murdered "like a rabid dog in the street," and these proceedings may help them find peace.

I agree and hope they do overcome and see the situation for what it really was.  Trayvon's father needs to take a long look at himself and ask why he didn't teach his son better.

My white, Jewish father taught me how to respond to police, or any authority figure,.......  Yes Sir, No Sir, and everybody goes home!  Plain and simple and I never forgot it.  As a teenager I was even able to get my friends to shut up with that saying as we were getting rousted by police at the soccer field almost every weekend.  Trayvon was never taught this and he was also never taught that you never know who's armed.  He saw a smaller guy and thought he was tough crap, but thought wrong.  Nobody is as tough as a gun. 

[Robert]

One of my favorites, I know it has been played before but its still good.
Chris Rock - How not to get your ass kicked by the police!

[FloridaValkRyder]

In order to preserve the peace and keep Sanford from being burned, the state buckled from pressure by the media and minority outrage and felt they had no choice but to try the case......event though they knew they didn't have one. That's the reason Zimmerman wasn't arrested in the first place and why all of the evidence thus far has pointed to self defense. Zimmerman will walk and Sanford will still burn.

Well, not so fast my friend...Zimmerman will probably walk on this. Several "Hate" groups of the African-American persuasion have threatened to "Burn it to the ground" if he does. Now, you live closer to Sanford than me but from what I know about Sanford, which is home to many good friends of mine, they are not just going to line up for an ass whipping. There are so many good old boys, these "hate groups" call them "crackers" ( which oddly enough the GOB's do not find offensive at all) in this area that there may be a blood bath, as the Black Panthers have called for, but my bet would be on these Southern Gentlemen doing the blood spilling. My Dad always told me, "Let a sleeping dog lie, cuzz if you kick him, he will bite". We will see what the effect of the verdict will be on this community, I pray everyone keeps their minds right, but if the verdict is innocent and the crap hits the fan, I'm betting on the home town boys.   

[musclehead]

*** retraction***  florida is NOT an all or nothing state, not sure where I heard that. turns out there is a way for them to charge with a lesser crime.

[FloridaValkRyder]

*** retraction***  florida is NOT an all or nothing state, not sure where I heard that. turns out there is a way for them to charge with a lesser crime.

You're exactly right Tom. He can be charged with Manslaughter (equal or lesser charge). I believe, with the kid being a minor, it becomes Aggravated Manslaughter, 30 years to life.

[Jess from VA]

Lesser included offenses.

A lesser crime whose elements are encompassed by a greater crime.

A lesser included offense shares some, but not all, of the elements of a greater criminal offense. Therefore, the greater offense cannot be committed without also committing the lesser offense. For example, Manslaughter is a lesser included offense of murder, assault is a lesser included offense of rape, and unlawful entry is a lesser included offense of Burglary.

The rules of Criminal Procedure permit two or more offenses to be charged together, regardless of whether they are misdemeanors or felonies, provided that the crimes are of a similar character and based on the same act or common plan. This permits prosecutors to charge the greater offense and the lesser included offense together. Although the offenses can be charged together, the accused cannot be found guilty of both offenses because they are both parts of the same crime (the lesser offense is part of the greater offense).

When a defendant is charged with a greater offense and one or more lesser included offenses, the trial court is generally required to give the jury instructions as to each of the lesser included offenses as well as the greater offense. However, a defendant may waive his or her right to have the jury so instructed. If the jury finds guilt Beyond a Reasonable Doubt as to a lesser included offense, but finds reasonable doubt as to the defendant's guilt with regard to the greater offense, the court should instruct the jury that it may convict on the lesser charge.

I was once assigned to prosecute a (financial crimes) case, assisting a Jr/rookie JAG who would try it for the most part.  After a long weekend of study and review of all the evidence, I called the convening authority Staff Judge Advocate and told him that while I believed the defendant guilty of the charges, we could almost certainly not get a conviction, and suggested we change tactics to an Art 15.  I was told to do my best.  We did, and we did not roll over, but we lost with no conviction on the charged offenses or on any lesser included offenses.  Just as I predicted.  I was mostly blamed for the loss, rather than the lack and complexity of the evidence.  So it goes.

One would hope that after a full trial, with all the evidence heard and considered, that an acquittal would not result in any significant riot or damages.  After all, there should have been no trial at all.

[MP]

I have been swathing hay, and listening to a lot of the trial on XM radio. 

All of us gun owners should be very afraid.  I have NOT heard anything to make me believe he should be charged with anything!

Seems like the biggest thing they hang their hat on, is that he suffered only minor injuries!  Seems like they think that you should wait until you have a serious head injury or are dead, THEN you can shoot!

Cops shoot people that are going after them, and NEVER get hurt at all, and ruled justified.

Zimmerman is being railroaded because the black community wants a conviction.  Hopefully the jury sees this.  If he is convicted, then all of us can be in his shoes at some future time.

It is a sad story.  I think both were innocent, and it escalated into a bad deal.  However, that does NOT make Zimmerman guilty of a crime.

MP

[John Schmidt]

Do you know who this is?



It is Little Trayvon Martin...! At 17 yrs of age. Roughly 6'2", 175lbs. of muscle. Quite a bit different from the innocent looking photos we all see of the 12 yr. old Trayvon. All his personal history of run-ins with authority aren't allowed in the trial so the jury is getting a very narrow and short-sighted view of what and who they're dealing with. Seems a bit one-sided when certain historical things are allowed re. Zimmerman, trying to show him in a certain light. Making it look like he wanted to be a "bad ass cop" among other things. But the same type of historical info re. poor little Trayvon isn't being allowed. Things that make you go...hmmmm???

But, that's the way the media wants you to see this entire charade: Their way.

[Tx Bohemian]

Seems like the biggest thing they hang their hat on, is that he suffered only minor injuries!  Seems like they think that you should wait until you have a serious head injury or are dead, THEN you can shoot!

I totally agree with this.
As Gman (I think) said the jury full of women probably never been busted in the nose and don't know how that feels and that you're quite dazed for a few seconds, then to get pounded and head smashed against a hard surface!!
I guess after the first punch GZ was supposed to asked this "racist, aspiring thug" what his intentions were!! Is he going to kill him or just beat him??

Zimmerman is being railroaded because the black community wants a conviction...

Hang on here a minute!!
I thought all the rioting awhile back was only for GZ to get a trial?!!??

You mean if he is found innocent that  al sh!thead and jesse jackoff aren't gonna tell their followers "he was found not guilty, go home and don't riot"?? And I'm sure they will.

It is a sad story.  I think both were innocent, and it escalated into a bad deal.  However, that does NOT make Zimmerman guilty of a crime.

I almost agree with this, but not both being innocent.
I think the prosecutions "star" witness proved the thug martin was the racist!
And they seem to forget why martin was in Sanford and not in the town he lived and WHERE HE WENT TO SCHOOL!!!

[musclehead]

Do you know who this is?



It is Little Trayvon Martin...! At 17 yrs of age. Roughly 6'2", 175lbs. of muscle. Quite a bit different from the innocent looking photos we all see of the 12 yr. old Trayvon. All his personal history of run-ins with authority aren't allowed in the trial so the jury is getting a very narrow and short-sighted view of what and who they're dealing with. Seems a bit one-sided when certain historical things are allowed re. Zimmerman, trying to show him in a certain light. Making it look like he wanted to be a "bad ass cop" among other things. But the same type of historical info re. poor little Trayvon isn't being allowed. Things that make you go...hmmmm???

But, that's the way the media wants you to see this entire charade: Their way.

I was on MSNbc yesterday reading about the trial, they are still showing the 'fresh faced pre teen' photo of TM 

I wonder if the defense can bring up some of the more recent photos?

[Serk]

Do you know who this is?



It is Little Trayvon Martin...! At 17 yrs of age. Roughly 6'2", 175lbs. of muscle. Quite a bit different from the innocent looking photos we all see of the 12 yr. old Trayvon. All his personal history of run-ins with authority aren't allowed in the trial so the jury is getting a very narrow and short-sighted view of what and who they're dealing with. Seems a bit one-sided when certain historical things are allowed re. Zimmerman, trying to show him in a certain light. Making it look like he wanted to be a "bad ass cop" among other things. But the same type of historical info re. poor little Trayvon isn't being allowed. Things that make you go...hmmmm???

But, that's the way the media wants you to see this entire charade: Their way.

I'm on my phone and can't look up sources but that's actually not him.

[Tx Bohemian]

I was on MSNbc yesterday reading about the trial, they are still showing the 'fresh faced pre teen' photo of TM 

I wonder if the defense can bring up some of the more recent photos?

Will probably not be allowed.

Seems the judge is allowing all of GZ history, even from years ago, but not allowing anything from TM history such as his school records, or more precise, his expulsion from school, drug related activities, school bus driver beating...
In other words, the fact he was going (or already gone) down the wrong path and becoming another burden on society because his parents failed miserably in raising him properly.

[donaldcc]

Do you know who this is?



It is Little Trayvon Martin...! At 17 yrs of age. Roughly 6'2", 175lbs. of muscle. Quite a bit different from the innocent looking photos we all see of the 12 yr. old Trayvon. All his personal history of run-ins with authority aren't allowed in the trial so the jury is getting a very narrow and short-sighted view of what and who they're dealing with. Seems a bit one-sided when certain historical things are allowed re. Zimmerman, trying to show him in a certain light. Making it look like he wanted to be a "bad ass cop" among other things. But the same type of historical info re. poor little Trayvon isn't being allowed. Things that make you go...hmmmm???

But, that's the way the media wants you to see this entire charade: Their way.

I'm on my phone and can't look up sources but that's actually not him.

  You are exactly right Serk!  Here is autopsy report listing him as 5'11" and 158 lbs. Two tattoos, a symbol on right arm and letters on left wrist.

   I am not taking sides in this battle, but sometimes those who call out injustice in the media are just as bad with their own misinformation.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/17/trayvon-martin-autopsy_n_1525763.html

[steve 3054]

The part that I find amusing is that Zimmerman is Half White as everyone knows ONLY white people can be racist!!!

At when the trail is over there will a Police convention in Sanford...don't think there will be any issues...

[John Schmidt]

That's not little Trayvon? Well, well, well.....that just proves my earlier statement re. the media reliability, which is where I found the picture. Don't really give a rip either way, still a punk kid with a long list of "innocent" activities.

[musclehead]

I was on MSNbc yesterday reading about the trial, they are still showing the 'fresh faced pre teen' photo of TM 

I wonder if the defense can bring up some of the more recent photos?

Will probably not be allowed.

Seems the judge is allowing all of GZ history, even from years ago, but not allowing anything from TM history such as his school records, or more precise, his expulsion from school, drug related activities, school bus driver beating...
In other words, the fact he was going (or already gone) down the wrong path and becoming another burden on society because his parents failed miserably in raising him properly.

the history of either of them is irrilevant to the events of the night in question.

[Jess from VA]

The history of either of them is irrelevant to the events of the night in question.

Partially.

The rules of evidence provide that you may not use a history of past bad acts to show a defendant is a bad man in general, and thus probably committed the charged crime(s).  However, past bad acts may be admitted to show a common scheme, plan, design, MO, if consistent with the facts underlying the current charge(s).  The question most often presented is if past conduct is directly probative of/relevant to current charge(s)... but past bad acts are excluded if it is considered more prejudicial than probative.

It is not all or nothing, past criminal or other bad acts/history are considered individually as to admissibility in pretrial motions to exclude.

Any past propensity to violence against others might be pretty relevant in this case, for both sides.  

I am not informed on all decisions on this subject made in this trial.

Without question, Martin's size and weight on the night in question will be admitted at trial.

I would imagine the prosecution has tried to admit pictures of the deceased Martin at the scene, they always do.  Certainly pictures of the beaten Zimmerman will be admitted.

[donaldcc]

That's not little Trayvon? Well, well, well.....that just proves my earlier statement re. the media reliability, which is where I found the picture. Don't really give a rip either way, still a punk kid with a long list of "innocent" activities.

Maybe instead it speaks to your reliability.

[John Schmidt]

That's not little Trayvon? Well, well, well.....that just proves my earlier statement re. the media reliability, which is where I found the picture. Don't really give a rip either way, still a punk kid with a long list of "innocent" activities.

Maybe instead it speaks to your reliability.

And you Donald, you have room to talk? You, with a comeback in the form of a personal dig? Very reliable. Nowhere in my post did I lower myself to that(your) level...that of a dig directed to a specific person.

Get over yourself bub. I'm done....

[donaldcc]

  John, my apologies if you were offended.

  Your post, that was by your own word taken from a source you consider unreliable and then put forward as the truth seems ironic.  one can find almost anything from the online media to support their view about almost anything.

  here you seem to have done just that without checking your source.  I was able to refute your photo in about a minute of research online.  my goal was to merely point out your error and not to personally disparage you, so don't get your panties in such a wad.

[BigAlOfMD]

Do you know who this is?



It is Little Trayvon Martin...! At 17 yrs of age. Roughly 6'2", 175lbs. of muscle. Quite a bit different from the innocent looking photos we all see of the 12 yr. old Trayvon. All his personal history of run-ins with authority aren't allowed in the trial so the jury is getting a very narrow and short-sighted view of what and who they're dealing with. Seems a bit one-sided when certain historical things are allowed re. Zimmerman, trying to show him in a certain light. Making it look like he wanted to be a "bad ass cop" among other things. But the same type of historical info re. poor little Trayvon isn't being allowed. Things that make you go...hmmmm???

But, that's the way the media wants you to see this entire charade: Their way.

According to SNOPES, this is a picture of a Raper named Jayceon Terrell Taylor AKA GAME.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/martin.asp

When Travon Martin died, he was 5'11" and 158 lbs.

A more recent picture of Travon is:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/9f/Trayvon_Martin_on_the_backseat_of_a_car.png/220px-Trayvon_Martin_on_the_backseat_of_a_car.png

[tank_post142]

[musclehead]

that sure looks like a tat, how'd he get one if he's only 17?

I think he's trying to inform us of his IQ 

[Tx Bohemian]

Wait!!
That looks like obamas son...

[steve 3054]

There were some ruff looking pic of T M on Face Book but they have all been taken down...The rapper Game is another deal, started by the media to stir the pot....The part that disturbs me about T M parents is that they filed for ...

Trayvons mother also applied for Trademarks on his name last week.

Sabrina Fulton (Trayvon's Mom) is seeking Trademarks for the phrases "I Am Trayvon" and "Justice for Trayvon," according to filings made last week with the United States Patent and Trademark Office.

In both instances, Fulton is seeking the trademarks for use on "Digital materials, namely, CDs and DVDs featuring Trayvon Martin," and other products.

The March 21 USPTO applications, each of which cost $325, were filed by an Orlando, Florida law firm representing Fulton.

Odd no? How many "grieving parents do you know that would be concerned with "Trademarking" their dead child's name? And why?

But then again, the Trayvon "Brand" would be more marketable and valuable if the constructed image of the innocent child victim could continue.

Alas, now it becomes clear, why all of those people who stand to profit from the death of Trayvon, consider any fact based, or truthful, information too risky to the Trayvon brand.

This also explains why Sabrina Fulton (Mom) and Tracy Martin (Dad) hired an attorney named Benjamin Crump. The very first action that Crump took upon retention was to file an injunction to "seal" Trayvon's school and criminal records. Thereby trying to hide the troubling background.

Now trying to make money from your child's death is way to much for me...

[G-Man]

Seems the judge is allowing all of GZ history, even from years ago, but not allowing anything from TM history such as his school records, or more precise, his expulsion from school, drug related activities, school bus driver beating...
In other words, the fact he was going (or already gone) down the wrong path and becoming another burden on society because his parents failed miserably in raising him properly.

That's because GZ is on trial, not Trayvon.

[signart]

Do you know of a mother anywhere in this world that could listen to what she truly believed were her son's last words played on a recording just before he died, and not break down in tears every time she heard it?
This is what you teach your children to hate so much, that you swear to a lie?
We now know how her precious "angel" got himself his deserts.