(Update) Dreaded Hydrolock!

HondaTech1987 · Wed 04, Dec 2013, 23:08:28

Really not all that big of a deal other than I did lock up my motor yesterday and it looks like it is going to cost me a new starter. My own fault for trying to re-use my float valves during a carb clean as well as not verifying my petcock and tank insides. Of which by now the p/c is verified bad and I'll know about the insides of the tank and starter tomorrow when I get to work and do a little diag work. Yippee for a great precursor to Christmas.(<-----insert sarcastic sounding voice there)

art · Thu 05, Dec 2013, 00:16:05

Sorry about that,sounds like a winter project. Good luck.

salty1 · Thu 05, Dec 2013, 05:42:58

Quote from: HondaTech1987 on Wed 04, Dec 2013, 23:08:28
Really not all that big of a deal other than I did lock up my motor yesterday and it looks like it is going to cost me a new starter. My own fault for trying to re-use my float valves during a carb clean as well as not verifying my petcock and tank insides. Of which by now the p/c is verified bad and I'll know about the insides of the tank and starter tomorrow when I get to work and do a little diag work. Yippee for a great precursor to Christmas.(<-----insert sarcastic sounding voice there)

Here is wishing you that it's only the starter.

Chrisj CMA · Thu 05, Dec 2013, 09:59:24

If you were on it long enough to kill the starter, there is damage inside the casing as well. Teeth of the main gear and or casting damage to the case as well. Look closely

John Schmidt · Thu 05, Dec 2013, 10:36:38

I agree with Chris. Most likely your starter is OK, it's the gears that it engages in the engine that usually go. Get set to pull the engine and probably the rear cover. Kinda sucks at Christmas time.

Grandpot · Thu 05, Dec 2013, 14:37:28

Someone has a starter motor for sale on the Classifieds page for $200. Hopefully you just damaged some gears.

Ricky-D · Thu 05, Dec 2013, 15:10:35

There have been a few times where no damage has been done to the motor or the starter experiencing hydrolock.

***

worrier · Thu 05, Dec 2013, 17:43:27

I also live in fear of a hydrolock. I am light on the starter(just a tap),then another tap, and then I start the valk . The question that I have is... If I use all my senses can I diminish damage, if a hydrolock does happen?

Patrick · Thu 05, Dec 2013, 18:15:59

Quote from: worrier on Thu 05, Dec 2013, 17:43:27
I also live in fear of a hydrolock. I am light on the starter(just a tap),then another tap, and then I start the valk . The question that I have is... If I use all my senses can I diminish damage, if a hydrolock does happen?

Keep doing what you're doing. If you ever hear the dreaded 'CLANK' , stop. Remove all the sparklers and clear the cylinders.

HondaTech1987 · Thu 05, Dec 2013, 18:31:46

Well never got to take a look at things today. I do have though a starter on the way and the lead tech at the other shop (i work at a satellite store to the bigger dealership) gave me all new float valves. With the weather going on right now, prob not going to be working tomorrow. As soon as I can get to work and have the time to fix it without having to go pick up and move around more units we will see. Maybe it's a good time to ask for prayers about the case and gears. Because I ride year round there is no such thing as a winter project for me... not much can be done about having only one mode of transportation.

Bigun · Thu 05, Dec 2013, 19:16:26

Quote from: Chrisj CMA on Thu 05, Dec 2013, 09:59:24
If you were on it long enough to kill the starter, there is damage inside the casing as well. Teeth of the main gear and or casting damage to the case as well. Look closely

Yep Idler gear will be shot and probably the pin bosses on the rear case that hold it. My experience at least. Hope for your sake it is just the starter.

HondaTech1987 · Fri 06, Dec 2013, 00:19:08

Hell I'll even throw this one in there to see what yall can drum up about it. The reason why I thought starter originally, is because the motor will turn over (first by hand via frt. timing cover) as long as the plugs are not it. If I put the plugs in, all it will do is click, click, click. What do yall think about that?

Shotgun · Fri 06, Dec 2013, 05:14:26

I hope it is only the starter. My starter was fine when mine locked, but I had to replace the rear case and a lot of gears. The biggest thing was making sure I got all the pieces out of there. Good luck and if you need any help, let me know. Mine did it in the middle of June here in Michigan and I spent a lot of long nights getting it back together so I didn't lose half of the riding season.

Patrick · Fri 06, Dec 2013, 05:48:46

I'm not sure what you mean by ' click click click'. Does it just click click click and not spin/turn over ? or is it spinning and clicking ? If the former, sounds like a bad battery or solenoid/relay. If the latter, then some driven gear damage.

HondaTech1987 · Fri 06, Dec 2013, 06:48:44

If the plugs are out everything will still spin via the starter button. (I should add that I have heard since I first saw the bike a strange rattling sound from the starter area when in use) When I use the starter button with plugs in the bike, it just clicks like something is obstructing the motor from turning over. (no fuel to carbs). When it wont spin over I noticed the battery terminals getting hot. We were thinking along the lines of something in the reduction gear setup for the starter giving and neither of us imagined anything like a motor pull for idler gear and other associated parts that will be necessary.

Thunnar · Fri 06, Dec 2013, 06:55:42

This board scared me into taking the cure last month with the Dan-Marc/Pingle Plan.

98pacecar · Fri 06, Dec 2013, 07:43:24

Quote from: Thunnar on Fri 06, Dec 2013, 06:55:42
This board scared me into taking the cure last month with the Dan-Marc/Pingle Plan.

Can you post the model numbers,,,, of the one's to buy? $:-\$

Thanks, Jim

signart · Fri 06, Dec 2013, 08:55:05

If you have click, click, click, click, like a machine gun, you have low voltage somewhere. (Battery, wires, ground, etc.)

HondaTech1987 · Fri 06, Dec 2013, 10:26:11

Just a single click like it's locked up ... we will know as soon as the ice thaws and we can get back to work... I have decided regardless the motor is coming out. I have the resources to get it done and do it myself in the Honda shop I work in. I can also assure everyone that this is further proof of what can happen when these bikes sit and are neglected. I traded into this Valk from a 90' model Goldwing that I only had 3800 bucks in.

Patrick · Fri 06, Dec 2013, 10:44:59

When the engine is turned over with starter, plugs out, does fuel come from any cylinder ? Does it spin quietly and freely ?
Upon immediately installing the sparklers and pushing the button, the engine doesn't turn over ? It just 'clicks' and the cables get hot ?
If all the above are/is whats happening, It appears to me that you have a low/bad battery, bad battery connections [ including ground at block], or a bad relay.
If you really think there is a starter or drive gear issue, why not just remove the starter and take a good look inside.

BlueValk · Fri 06, Dec 2013, 12:15:08

Quote from: HondaTech1987 on Fri 06, Dec 2013, 06:48:44
When it wont spin over I noticed the battery terminals getting hot.

Heat is usually due to high current and a bad connection. If the battery terminals are getting hot, the bad connection might just be there. Make sure they are tight and clean.
Good luck!
BlueValk

Cappy · Fri 06, Dec 2013, 16:27:57

Howdy. As a result of my yet unresoved petcock issue, I have been following anything related to the HYDROLOCK issue. I certainly don't want to do anything that increases the potential for it. Therefore, I am becoming a fan of the Pingle and Dan Marc switch solution, if i don't just get another new OEM petcock.

Some followers may know I also had fuel flowing from a right side carb bank over flow hose. One responder said I may have a stuck "float valve".
If so, does this increase my chance of hydrolock? $:-\$

I would like to pull the plugs and crank the engine a bit, but its 4 degrees in the garage with a -10 below windchill, and going down. Maybe, you won't feel as bad about the Texas weather right now. I would like to also know what it take to unstick a float valve.

Patrick · Fri 06, Dec 2013, 17:55:03

Quote from: Cappy on Fri 06, Dec 2013, 16:27:57
Howdy. As a result of my yet unresoved petcock issue, I have been following anything related to the HYDROLOCK issue. I certainly don't want to do anything that increases the potential for it. Therefore, I am becoming a fan of the Pingle and Dan Marc switch solution, if i don't just get another new OEM petcock.

Some followers may know I also had fuel flowing from a right side carb bank over flow hose. One responder said I may have a stuck "float valve".
If so, does this increase my chance of hydrolock? $:-\$

I would like to pull the plugs and crank the engine a bit, but its 4 degrees in the garage with a -10 below windchill, and going down. Maybe, you won't feel as bad about the Texas weather right now. I would like to also know what it take to unstick a float valve.

A 'stuck float valve' certainly does increase the chance of a fuel lock. Pull the sparklers and find out which float is stuck. I've had good luck just draining the carburetors and flushing the crap out of them.

John Schmidt · Fri 06, Dec 2013, 18:57:01

Before draining the carbs, try this....it's worked a couple times for me to clean out debris. Using a MityVac, attach it to the carb drain hose that sticks out underneath the bike. Pump up a fair vacuum then open ONE carb drain screw. The vacuum causes the fuel in the bowl to stir up debris because of the sudden turmoil caused by the vacuum itself....trying to suck it out in an instant. If there's junk in there, you'll be surprised how much comes out into the MityVac catch bottle. Close that drain screw and go to the next carb and repeat, doing each carb separately then closing the drain.

salty1 · Fri 06, Dec 2013, 19:00:55

Quote from: John Schmidt on Fri 06, Dec 2013, 18:57:01
Before draining the carbs, try this....it's worked a couple times for me to clean out debris. Using a MityVac, attach it to the carb drain hose that sticks out underneath the bike. Pump up a fair vacuum then open ONE carb drain screw. The vacuum causes the fuel in the bowl to stir up debris because of the sudden turmoil caused by the vacuum itself....trying to suck it out in an instant. If there's junk in there, you'll be surprised how much comes out into the MityVac catch bottle. Close that drain screw and go to the next carb and repeat, doing each carb separately then closing the drain.

Neat idea! I'll have to try it sometime.

Cappy · Sat 07, Dec 2013, 10:33:05

Hey, some good suggestions here. Thanks guys.

HondaTech1987 · Fri 13, Dec 2013, 22:29:07

Update ... for sure the motor is coming out and is in fact ready to drop as I type this. The I guess "typical" damage of the gears and the rear case cover. Yippee parts on the way...

98pacecar · Sat 14, Dec 2013, 05:54:06

Quote from: HondaTech1987 on Fri 13, Dec 2013, 22:29:07
Update ... for sure the motor is coming out and is in fact ready to drop as I type this. The I guess "typical" damage of the gears and the rear case cover. Yippee parts on the way...

Is dat part of the case itself,,,,,,,,,,,,,, that's broken on the left side,,, of da pic?

pouch · Sat 14, Dec 2013, 06:27:27

get a electric shutoff valve did the job for me. pouch

HondaTech1987 · Sat 14, Dec 2013, 07:50:37

Quote from: 98pacecar on Sat 14, Dec 2013, 05:54:06
Quote from: HondaTech1987 on Fri 13, Dec 2013, 22:29:07
Update ... for sure the motor is coming out and is in fact ready to drop as I type this. The I guess "typical" damage of the gears and the rear case cover. Yippee parts on the way...

Is dat part of the case itself,,,,,,,,,,,,,, that's broken on the left side,,, of da pic?

Yes the case and gear...

Patrick · Sat 14, Dec 2013, 09:04:47

That pic pretty much shows what happens when the cylinder locks and the button keeps being pushed. ' Tap' that button.

John Schmidt · Sat 14, Dec 2013, 10:18:47

I can't tell from the picture if any teeth are missing on the gear to the right. If you didn't do it already, you might want to order that smaller gear to the right....the one the starter goes in. Even if no teeth are broken, at this point some have been hammered and strained and thus are weakened. Years of experience speaking.

Patrick · Sat 14, Dec 2013, 10:21:20

Quote from: John Schmidt on Sat 14, Dec 2013, 10:18:47
I can't tell from the picture if any teeth are missing on the gear to the right. If you didn't do it already, you might want to order that smaller gear to the right....the one the starter goes in. Even if no teeth are broken, at this point some have been hammered and strained and thus are weakened. Years of experience speaking.

Experience is a wonderful thing, isn't it ?

John Schmidt · Sat 14, Dec 2013, 13:26:32

Quote from: Patrick on Sat 14, Dec 2013, 10:21:20
Quote from: John Schmidt on Sat 14, Dec 2013, 10:18:47
I can't tell from the picture if any teeth are missing on the gear to the right. If you didn't do it already, you might want to order that smaller gear to the right....the one the starter goes in. Even if no teeth are broken, at this point some have been hammered and strained and thus are weakened. Years of experience speaking.

Experience is a wonderful thing, isn't it ?

Patrick, you know the old saying about experience: It's what you get two seconds after you need it.

The experience I'm referring to in my statement goes back to my teen years, think I was about 17. It came after pulling my buddie's Cad-LaSalle tranny for the third time due to broken teeth on a gear that didn't have any broken the first two times. An old gent that lived across the street wandered over, he had noticed us working on the car....again! His suggestion was the same thing I posted above; might not look damaged....but!!!

Patrick · Sat 14, Dec 2013, 14:02:09

They were the transmitters to use back in the day too. Just goes to show huh, that not everything is perfectly bulletproof. Anything can be broken can't it. Used to call it molecular destruction.

stude31 · Mon 16, Dec 2013, 02:12:41

Quote from: HondaTech1987 on Fri 13, Dec 2013, 22:29:07
Update ... for sure the motor is coming out and is in fact ready to drop as I type this. The I guess "typical" damage of the gears and the rear case cover. Yippee parts on the way...

Hey that looks familiar... I did the repairs to a guys bike a few years ago... Not too difficult just time..

A valkyrie w/o a motor just doesn't look good... The motor makes the bike..

Holler if you have questions.

Stude31

98pacecar · Mon 16, Dec 2013, 13:50:12

Convinced me.........

Just ordered,,, my,,,, Dan-Marc

HondaTech1987 · Tue 17, Dec 2013, 20:18:57

Hey guys ... quick question. Has anyone ever tried to replace the rear case cover with one of a GL1500 wing? I know that the wing case cover has provisions for reverse but i was looking at pictures of some on ebay and they look the same other than where the shaft for reverse is there but the one on my valk has the same provision but a plug in it. Thoughts?

Shotgun · Wed 18, Dec 2013, 04:22:26

I've got a couple of pictures that may be helpful from my hydrolock but I have no idea how to post them. Can anyone tell me how?

salty1 · Wed 18, Dec 2013, 09:34:09

First thing, open a Photobucket account and download the pictures you want to share to that site. Select the downloaded photobucket photo and then select the URL link code IMG. A response comes back copied. Go to the VRCC site and select the picture icon. The latter will download a couple IMGs in brackets. You need to paste the copied URL code from photobucket in the middle of the VRCC IMG brackets. If you end up with two sets of IMG brackets, one set needs to be eliminated. Click preview and see if it worked. If not, keep trying and asking questions. Also, use the search engine to find answers too. FWIW

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(Update) Dreaded Hydrolock!