School gun violence.

[alph]

The 17 year old girl in Littleton CO., Claire Davis, passed away today.  I was reading the comments posted in an article regarding the shooting in the high school, along with the other shootings that have occurred over the last few years, and it seems everyone wants' to "get rid of guns" and yet none of them want to get rid of the violent video games that promote gun violence!!  So many children are being taught that the best way to get rid of their problems is to "BLAST 'EM" away.  They're taught that grabbing a gun is the best way to solve their problems.  AND STUPID PARENTS BUY THIS CRAP!

My holiday wish for all of my "Valkyrie Family" is that none of you buy and promote the violent video gaming industry.  I'd rather see us "get rid of the game" instead of getting rid of our guns.  

Maybe we need to start a "get rid of the game" campaign.  

Remember this face the next time you see a violent video game commercial.

[MP]

Agreed.  With voluntarily not giving violent games to ones kids.  Not laws.   Also, the recent ones have all had SEVERE mental problems, but with the increased difficulty in involuntary committment, they are NOT getting help.  It is a very complex problem.  No one answer to it.

All tragic.

MP

[Gavin_Sons]

I will not buy any video games for anyone. Instead I buy presents that need to be used outside.

[Serk]

Sorry, but I strongly disagree... Getting rid of "violent" video games would make about as much sense as getting rid of guns...

If you wish to not buy certain games, that's totally your business, but please don't start yet another "Ban things I don't like" campaign, we've got quite enough of those already...

[Gavin_Sons]

Some games just dont need to be played by kids under 18. The parents need to monitor this and not buy a game rated above their kids age.

[alph]

Sorry, but I strongly disagree... Getting rid of "violent" video games would make about as much sense as getting rid of guns...

If you wish to not buy certain games, that's totally your business, but please don't start yet another "Ban things I don't like" campaign, we've got quite enough of those already...

when a parent buys a video game and then never plays with the kid, leaves the kid to rot in front of a screen for hours on end, eventually the kid goes "mental", who's to blame?  ignorant people make ignorant choices, although they "think" they're doing the right thing. 

sure you can say "don't go getting rid of my video game!!" so what's it going to be?  your gun?  i'm just trying to give a different view point to a problem.  the media will always go for your "right to bear arms", no where in the constitution does it say "right to video game".

[Serk]

Sorry, but I strongly disagree... Getting rid of "violent" video games would make about as much sense as getting rid of guns...

If you wish to not buy certain games, that's totally your business, but please don't start yet another "Ban things I don't like" campaign, we've got quite enough of those already...

when a parent buys a video game and then never plays with the kid, leaves the kid to rot in front of a screen for hours on end, eventually the kid goes "mental", who's to blame?  ignorant people make ignorant choices, although they "think" they're doing the right thing. 

sure you can say "don't go getting rid of my video game!!" so what's it going to be?  your gun?  i'm just trying to give a different view point to a problem.  the media will always go for your "right to bear arms", no where in the constitution does it say "right to video game".

Video games generally fall under speech (Same as movies, TV shows, books, etc); the 1st Amendment applies.

Now, parent's using (Fill in the blank here) to baby sit their kids instead of being parents will cause problems, but the blame falls on the parents, not on the (Fill in the blank here).

[john]

                     "  So many children are being taught that the best way to get rid of their problems is to "BLAST 'EM" away "          
       nobody does that ...              
       video games promote money in the game designers pocket                          
        "BLAST 'EM" away "  games are not designed for children ...
and neither are the guns ...   kids need close supervision , parenting .
       freddy the fish    and    dora the explorer     are  designed for children
  my favorites  ....    duke nuke'm atomic     ....   shadow warrior       ...   max payne      

[Rams]

I'll agree it's a complex problem but, I also believe the answer lies with parents, strong schools and the community culture.   I distinctly remember being a Sophomore through Senior in high school and having a rifle or two hanging in the back window of the cab.   Didn't even bother to lock the truck and the ammo was inside the glove box.   As a culture, we have changed, it's not the gun's fault, the blame can be directly pointed at piss poor parenting IMHO.   Too many parents don't pay attention to what their children are up to, who they associate with and where they are going.  

I'm real proud of the way my children turned out but, their Mom and I worked our butts off and wore their butts out on more than a few occasions.   My children learned early on that they were responsible for their actions, inactions and most of all, their behavior.   Parenting is the toughest job in the world if you're trying to do it right and give a damn about those kids.

[alph]

Video games generally fall under speech (Same as movies, TV shows, books, etc); the 1st Amendment applies.

Now, parent's using (Fill in the blank here) to baby sit their kids instead of being parents will cause problems, but the blame falls on the parents, not on the (Fill in the blank here).

Everyone is accepting of limiting "freedom of speech" if it is part of yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theater, or showing a porn video in a high school as an example of free speech (now we're getting into sex ed, a totally different argument).  But some parents will see that as being inappropriate, but others would call it "free speech".  

Limiting speech doesn't necessarily cause the loss of life, where as not limiting violence will.  No other society in the world saturates its people with as much violence as the American entertainment industry (my opinion, not actual fact).

If you "raise" people in believing it's okay to kill, than don't be surprised when they kill without thinking it's wrong or not.

[musclehead]

another facet is the anti depressant drugs many of the shooters were either taking or coming down off of.

look at the mug shots of the ones captured. either dazed, confused or in the case of jared just plain loopy.

[BF]

alph, did you grow up before video games?

If you did, did you ever play war when you where a kid?  Cowboys and indians perhaps? 

Did playing war or cowboys and indians make you wanna go out and mass murder people?

[Rams]

Video games generally fall under speech (Same as movies, TV shows, books, etc); the 1st Amendment applies.

Now, parent's using (Fill in the blank here) to baby sit their kids instead of being parents will cause problems, but the blame falls on the parents, not on the (Fill in the blank here).

If you "raise" people in believing it's okay to kill, than don't be surprised when they kill without thinking it's wrong or not.

I'll agree with that statement.   IMHO, it's not the community that rears the child, it's the parents.   Start holding parents responsible for their kids actions in addition to the kids who do the deed.    Just my opinion but, I'm sticking with it.  

[john]

                   " and wore their butts out on more than a few occasions "
     and there lies the problem ...
         young people do not understand that  great responsibly 
         comes with freedom .
          it's no longer taught in school and rarely taught at home .
          neither do the people  flooding into america illegally ....
it's just " yaaahoo, we be free to do as we please " ...
       " to do what ever the hell we want "        bad ju ju   

[alph]

alph, did you grow up before video games?

If you did, did you ever play war when you where a kid?  Cowboys and indians perhaps?  

Did playing war or cowboys and indians make you wanna go out and mass murder people?

just haven't gotten caught yet!!    

BF, i will confes, i never had a "liking" towards video games.  we did have "Pong" when i was growing up, now THAT'S great entertainment right there!!  i think i was sick of it within 30 minutes.....

[MarkT]

I agree with Alph on this one.  And the comments on parenting as well.  I don't believe any impressionable kids should be playing first person shooter video games.  Those games certainly do desensitize them to the sanctity of life.  But it's not a simple problem with a simple solution.  Very complex and solutions are fraught with unintended consequences.

[alph]

I agree with Alph on this one.  And the comments on parenting as well.  I don't believe any impressionable kids should be playing first person shooter video games.  Those games certainly do desensitize them to the sanctity of life.  But it's not a simple problem with a simple solution.  Very complex and solutions are fraught with unintended consequences.

WITH JUST THIS ONE!?!   

i guess the argument i'm trying to make is that the liberal media is going to be fighting for "gun laws", while i believe that the real issue isn't being addressed and gun control is really their goal other than a solution. 

Another argument was made that some of these kids are on anti depressants, well, if you spent hours on end "shooting" people, wouldn't that make ANYONE depressed?  I'm sorry, kids play these games hours on end, and as stated earlier, some of these kids look wacked out of their minds!!

I want people to wake up and say, lets get on track towards a solution instead of a knee jerk "TAKE THE GUNS AWAY" reaction.  Children are not mentally capable of understanding the ramifications of what these games do to their thought processes.  Just as you wouldn't want your kids to watch porn, you shouldn't be allowing them to watch/play "human blow up" games. 

(by the way, I'm not arguing with anyone that is posting, I just want to see if I can offer a solution)

[Hoser]

Bring back Donkey Kong, space invaders, Pac Man etc.  I still like playing them.  Hoser
This is the only shooting game I like.
http://www.owencounty.org/binladenliq.swf

[MP]

alph, did you grow up before video games?

If you did, did you ever play war when you where a kid?  Cowboys and indians perhaps? 

Did playing war or cowboys and indians make you wanna go out and mass murder people?

Did people "die" in your cowboy games?
Did they have blood explode out of them?
Were their brains blasted out?

No, to all.  These "games" today are almost real.  Not make believe.

MP

[rocketray]

it wasnt until I got an email from the NRA-ILA that it was explained that an armed law enforcement person was on campus as a happenstance   and he headed towards the shooter who apparently heard he was coming...and as usual shot himself some 80 seconds into the deal       so as usual the hubris by the media owned by.....maybe try googling    what part of the media do the rothschilds own?    some consider a firearm like a hammer or a screwdriver    a tool

[JimC]

i guess the argument i'm trying to make is that the liberal media is going to be fighting for "gun laws", while i believe that the real issue isn't being addressed and gun control is really their goal other than a solution. 

it wasnt until I got an email from the NRA-ILA that it was explained that an armed law enforcement person was on campus as a happenstance   and he headed towards the shooter who apparently heard he was coming...and as usual shot himself some 80 seconds into the deal 

Notice how the liberal media is quiet on this one all of a sudden?

It is because the media is against guns in the schools from the beginning, including armed officers. It is unfortunate that the young girl lost her life, but think about what would have happened if the school resource officer had not been in that school.

Jim (former school resource officer)

[Robert]

I totally agree with Alph when you train to be a pilot you use a simulator, how are games any different? Especially as the world slips into a harder place without the outlets to find love and caring and this kind of positive interaction away from the sex drugs and violence that is not only in games but in the liberal media. Cowboy and Indians was acted out in the kids minds not programed time and time again by games and you somehow never got to see anyone die. Somehow the graphics was no where near as real, there is no comparison. We have roles models like Miley Cyrus, Snoop Dog, Bigge, Tupack what a cesspool of examples.

[alph]

Jim, you are right about more lives not being lost because there was an armed police officer in the school. 

didn't have that when I was in high school, then again, we had PONG....   

there was a couple kids that did bring ping pong balls to school back then, they would put them in their mouth and shoot them into the air, catch them again, and spit 'em up!!  (yeah, I did that)

SEE!!  I WAS INFLUENCED BY A VIDEO GAME!!

[old2soon]

It's not so much responsibility as LACK of responsibility. Not all but a lot of parents are NOT teaching it anymore. I'd be willing to bet you see the disrespect in public most days as I do. And not ALL young folks are disrespectful but enough of them are to give me cause for concern. Had I tried some of the stuff I see happening in-pick a public venue-Mom and/or Dad would have warmed my ass up right there in front of GOD and everybody else. AND I'm NOT advocating violence towards children but trust me when I tell you the butt warmings I got made me a better person. Found out after I had my own children EXACTLY how smart Mom and Dad really were. And YES I do believe a lot of "adult rated" videos fall in to far too young hands. RIDE SAFE.

[MacDragon]

a lot of the kids of today do not have the same respect that we had in the past.  I've tried very hard to raise our 2 boys the right way... give them some room, but make surew they understand respect for themselves and others... I think we did a fairly good job as they are responsible adults in their 30s now.
My wife was a teacher for a long time and for a while, taught Jr. high school.  she says it was the worst experience of her career.  The kids had very little respect for authority etc.  She went to teaching college and it was a different experience.  They or their parents were paying for the education and if they didn't want to learn then get out of my class.! 

Incidently, I've been a member of the NRA since I was 12 years old.  In High School I was on the Rifle team.  On Wednesdays, I used to carry my .22 rifle over my shoulder to school and have it in my locker to go to the Armory that night and shoot!  No one thought twice about it back then.  Today... I'd be behind bars.

[bscrive]

I would say that the many school shooting in the US can be attributed to a few things.

1. Parents who do not parent and let their kids do whatever they want as long as they are not bugging them

2. Guns not properly stored by their parents and the kids have easy access to them

3. The medication given to pre-pubescent children to quiet them down in school

4. Violent video games bought by the parents.  Do we really need our kids playing video game with realistic killing.  I agree with whom ever said this desensitizes kids

5. Unsupervised access to the internet

This is what I have found to be the most contributing factors. 

If you look at Canada, where I am from.  We have very strict laws on gun storage.  We still have the odd school shooting (about 6 of them since 2000) but nothing comparable to the US (almost 100 since 2000).  Number 2 is the only difference between our two countries.  But, when you get to the root of the problem it is the parents fault.

[Xtracho]

Parents have abdicated their responsibilities to their children. Too often kids are left for hours alone at home, unsupervised and without guidance. And what is their motive? Usually the almighty dollar or to obtain some desired social status. It sickens me when I hear the "it takes a village" mantra spouted by one ex-first lady of this country. She all but invited parents to abandon their kids in favor of some sort of imagined community exercise in rearing their children.

[Skinhead]

I must agree that the dual income situation that has pretty much become the norm, is a contributing factor to this problem.  It's not so bad when Gramma is watching the young'uns while mom is working, but dropping the kids at daycare is another story.  To me, it wasn't worth it to have my wife work while the kids were small, we just did without.  No boats, cottages, or cruises, hell, I didn't start riding again until my baby turned 18.

[fudgie]

If you "raise" people in believing it's okay to kill, than don't be surprised when they kill without thinking it's wrong or not.

There are times its ok to kill. Just sayin. 

[Xtracho]

I must agree that the dual income situation that has pretty much become the norm, is a contributing factor to this problem.  It's not so bad when Gramma is watching the young'uns while mom is working, but dropping the kids at daycare is another story.  To me, it wasn't worth it to have my wife work while the kids were small, we just did without.  No boats, cottages, or cruises, hell, I didn't start riding again until my baby turned 18.

Exactly. The intact family unit is defined by the parents recognizing their first priority is to care for and rear their children. Neither of my two girls, nor my grand baby, have ever spent a single hour in Day Care. While I can understand in some instances the need for a Day Care environment, IMO it only increases the direct involvement that the parents must have with their kids when they have them at home. Giving them up to Day Care, semi-professional guidance counselors, or under qualified teacher and school administrators is simply not an option.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

It falls to parenting, and teaching responsibility, and kicking your kids butts when they need it and standing up for them when they're right, thereby teaching them to stand up for what's right too. It's grounding them in the difference between right and wrong, refusing grade school teachers requests to zombify boys with mood altering drugs for the teachers convenience. And teaching kids that lying is the worst thing they can do, then making sure you don't give them a reason or need to lie to you. And teaching your kids that you expect them and trust them to stand up, be truthful and do the right thing. And, I think it's also a matter of luck to some degree.

My wife and I both worked long nightshift hours when our kids were young. But when we weren't working, our vacation and fun time revolved around family activities. Most of these activities revolved around the shooting sports, playing video games, chess, building things and riding dirtbikes. The kids also had there own interests which we shared to varying degrees such as football, fishing, and extreme bicycling.

Two of my boys took their first deer by the time they were 12 and kept firearms and ammo in their own rooms in a locked cabinet they had the keys to. They never loaded a gun in the house but in the event of a home break in, few criminals who got by the wife and I could have survived climbing those stairs to harm my boys. If the boys somehow ran out of ammo they still had their hunting bows and sword collection to fall back on.  Both are great fathers now, supporting their own families, and very good shots. My other two kids have little interest in firearms but none the less know how to use them and have turned out to be great adults.

My worry concerning firearms safety was the amazingly large number of parents who seemed to give their kids no firearms education. That's why the boy's firearms were kept locked up in their rooms. So that poorly raised friends wouldn't pick them up and cause an accident. We didn't need to hide our car keys from these same friends, we didn't need to shut off the gas to the stove or cover the outlets in the house or lockup the table saw in the shop. Their parents had taught them not to drive cars without permission, not to mess with the stove, not to turn on the table saw and cut off their fingers but they hadn't educated them concerning firearms. It was the parents failure.

Concerning the school shooting, sadly it proved exactly what the NRA said, "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". That's why you haven't heard the truth about this tragic act on the Obama channels, because it proves the NRA was right and the Clinton/Brady/Obama doctrine was wrong.

Today, at our family Christmas gathering, I noticed my two oldest grandsons both had hunting knifes on their belts. When I asked "hey, what's with the knifes, no one in this family carries weapons?" It resulted in laughs and grins from all. 

My less than two year-old grandson Ryder has a vocabulary of maybe 50 words right now. That vocabulary includes the words "Valkyrie, Ducati" and "bang, bang". "Bang, bang" means any firearm, ammo, bow or gun safe. And... for some reason "telescopes".  In my world this means he's off to a very good start.

[Bighead]

I agree it all falls on the raising or teaching of children by parents. When I was a small child there were guns in the house and I knew where they were but also knew that if I got them out when mom and dad weren't there I would have a warm no HOT backside when they got home I got my first gun when I was 7 and still have it today and in 40 years have managed never to point a gun at a human must less shoot one.when I was in the ninth grade in school we had an orange sale to raise money for the FFA and the high salesman would get a variety of prizes based on the amount sold. With a little help from Dad I won a shotgun a hunting knife and two pocket knives which were given to me in home room. I walked the halls of school all day with the gun over my shoulder and no one had a second thought. Different times I guess.

[cookiedough]

I tend to agree with Alph but not to his extreme banning of all first person shooters for kids.  We let our 13 year old play xbox, although I know way too much, he goes around doing different things  and even plays grand theft auto, NOT for the sex and violence, but for driving around town and being chased by the cops, etc.  He is a good kid straight a's and not violent, almost too nice actually to everyone.  He has a reading equivalent of a college student and only 13 so he gets bored too easily in our small school system who doesn't have the higher end classes for his middle school age.

I attempt to play with him for 20-30 minutes but that is about all I can take.  Yes, I'd rather see him play pac man and frogger, etc., or even go outside and play,  but times have changed unfortunately and for the most part not for the better.  I use to play frogger/pacman, etc. on my atari 2600 system when 11-14 years old for hours on end,  but outgrew it all in high school.

I agree with you we let him play way too long, but it all depends on the kid and parents, you can't generalize because each situation is different. 

[Moonshot_1]

Don't subscribe to the Video Game theory. If this was the case I'd think we'd see far more mass shootings in schools and malls and such.

I'd be interested the shooter's medical history. Treatment for ADD and things like that.
I think the violence may be the result of the effects of that kind of medication on kids that can no longer handle it. Not all will react with violence but it might enhance that effect in a few.
I think there are thoughts along these lines already.

Couple this with the campaign against bullies and bullying and you should get some kids that take it to the extreme. Sure we don't want to see bullies and we don't want to see bullying occur, but, in my opinion, there has been a campaign against it that condemns it so absolutely that at times, rationalizes an extremely disproportionate violent response.

And then creating an environment where the shooters know they won't be challenged. Firearms Prohibited policy and sign? That's just advertising for trouble. 

I'd like to see the curbing of prescribing pediatric drugs to counter ADHD and such. Use in only extreme cases. But we've seen borderline cases where these meds are used rather commonly.

While we should have policies dealing with bullies, the rhetoric must be measured and not such that it can lead to encourage violent responses.

Armed teachers. Armed School Security. And make it known, make it known, make it known. Leave no doubt that violent incursions into a school will be put down with extreme prejudice.

Also encourage people to care and store their firearms in a manner that is secure. Particularly when children and adolescents are around or in their care.

These events are to happen again. Nothing we can do can stop it. Hell, don't even know if it can be slowed down.  But destroying the rights of the people does not help. In fact, it only adds to the problem.

[dreamaker]

Now let's see if I totally understand this.  Now the video game you bought your child seems to be the cause and issue here and is at fault to all the problems these whack jobs are doing.  Now of course things like TV shows like the Simpsons, American Dad, South Beach, Wendy Williams Show,   and shows with Vampire and living dead, shows.  Commercials that disrespect the bread winner of the family make the men look like mindless Neanderthal humans that have no negative influence to our children, it is the videos fault.  The truth is your children are a direct reflection of our parenting, whether it is good or bad.  The excuse is the child is mentally defective and it is not the parents fault.  Through parents laziness they train their children to be Social paths, telling them it is never their fault and they don't have to be accountable for the actions.  Children are not a possession or a toy; they are a responsibility and hard work.  So why to children turn into a whack job??    It is the parents fault and failures and video games are just one small part of problem. People are always living in denial and looking for whom to blame for their failures and looking for some magic pill for a solutions to the problems.