Minimum wage, they did it

[Patrick]

A city in Washington just raised the wage to $15/hr for certain workers. I'm afraid the spam will hit the fan when that takes place. They'll be many surprised folks on Thursday.

[Rams]

I suspect those cities will start to see an exodus of the affected businesses in the near term where those wages are applied.   Silly politicians buying votes is all you're seeing here.

[BradValk48237]

Get ready for a $10 Big Mac.......

B

[Patrick]

Think the unemployment rates are high there now, can't wait to see what they are next month.

[..]

http://money.cnn.com/2013/11/06/news/economy/minimum-wage-seatac-new-jersey/

[PAVALKER]

Get ready for a $10 Big Mac.......

B

I got a BOGO coupon...... you buy and I'll get mine for free.....     

[FLAVALK]

Get ready for a $10 Big Mac.......

B

You want a $6 order of fries with that?

[Moonshot_1]

Get ready for a $10 Big Mac.......

B

Oh c'mon. The increase in the wage will surely come with a spectacular increase in productivity.

[Bighead]

 
Just gives them a reason to not and try to better themselves.hey I was born here and I deserve to be handed everything and not have to try and work hard for my family I DESERVE AND IT IS MY RIGHT TO HAVE IT!!!!

[LandElephant]

It's more affordable than you think. At $15 an hour on the new Obamacare fulltime the wage earner makes $22, 500 dollars a year. If they didn't raise the rate the wage earner at $8.25 an hour for what use to be a work week makes $17, 160.  The business saves the difference by not having to provide medical care and reduce the HR individual (s) who spend there time managing the benefits department, and the wage earner has to now go to Obamacare with the new high quality health insurance (not healthcare).

Business wins and so does the customer. There's a positive spin for you.

Charlie Morse
Land Elephant

[.]

Just gives them a reason to not and try to better themselves.hey I was born here and I deserve to be handed everything and not have to try and work hard for my family I DESERVE AND IT IS MY RIGHT TO HAVE IT!!!!

I wonder how many of the people who think minimum wage is such a princely sum actually have to live on minimum wage? And, having worked at a couple of fast food joints many years ago I'd be hard pressed to ridicule the people who work there by saying a raise will only give them reason to not try and better themselves.

Actually, it's a little disappointing to me that trashing unemployed people as too lazy to go look for a job doesn't fully satisfy so now we need to belittle folks who do work, but for minimum wage, as so sorry and trashy that a raise would only make them lazier. Truth be told, it's a lot disappointing.

[alph]

i'm sure a lot of college gradates are happy they went to college when someone that's a high school drop out is making as much as they are.

[Serk]

[cookiedough]

I'm moving to D.C. - I'll glady take 15 bucks per hour. 

[cookiedough]

i'm sure a lot of college gradates are happy they went to college when someone that's a high school drop out is making as much as they are.

Alph,  don't even get me started on this one!  There are dumb-_hits where I work just starting off and making what I am making been there over 7 years  now and I do 3-4 times the workload and I have to train them to do 1/4 of what I do, yet they get paid the same amount of money.  Even in one instance this one guy gets paid 1.30 more per hour than all of us in the office yet he is TOTALLY WORTHLESS!  Our boss sucks is all I can say.   

Maybe I'm the dumb_ss for putting up with it for so long? 

[alph]

i'm sure a lot of college gradates are happy they went to college when someone that's a high school drop out is making as much as they are.

Alph,  don't even get me started on this one!  There are dumb-_hits where I work just starting off and making what I am making been there over 7 years  now and I do 3-4 times the workload and I have to train them to do 1/4 of what I do, yet they get paid the same amount of money.  Even in one instance this one guy gets paid 1.30 more per hour than all of us in the office yet he is TOTALLY WORTHLESS!  Our boss sucks is all I can say.   

Maybe I'm the dumb_ss for putting up with it for so long? 

i've known you for about three years, and i still wonder why you're still with that company.  (must pay REALLY good......)

[Rams]

A job has a value for the skill set it requires.   $15 an hour may be appropriate in some places for a fast food worker, I won't say it isn't but, the federal minimum wage is set for those with little or no skills.   I've worked for minimum wage, I worked my butt off doing it.   What I do know is, if that kind of job is where your skills and ambition keep you, then you're getting what you want.  

Moving the minimum wage to such a high level most places I have lived in will only force the price the of product up until the paying public will no longer go there and will eventually result in job losses, city revenue being reduced and some very unhappy people.   More folks will go on unemployment and a real mess is created.    I'm not knocking fast food workers but, the truth is, you get what you earn.  

There are two groups of people who will be hurt by this, those who will eventually lose their jobs and those who work at jobs that pay just above this new minimum wage who won't get a raise but will feel the effect of the higher prices that go along with it.    Eventually, the market will balance out and businesses will move to areas not effected by such market reducing regs.    

All I can think of is we get the government we deserve.   Stupid voters elect vote buying politicians and that has never resulted in good things happening for the whole community or country.    Skill, intelligence, talent, ambition and hard work have always paid off in a capitalistic society.    Not so much in a socialist society.    Look at countries like Greece if you want to see how bad government/management works out.

[..]

Did ANYONE read the information at the link I provided?????

[Rams]

Did ANYONE read the information at the link I provided?????

Yeppers, not sure why you ask but yeah, I read it.

[..]

Did ANYONE read the information at the link I provided?????

Yeppers, not sure why you ask but yeah, I read it.

Some seem to be fixated on fast food workers which aren't he focus for the area in question.

Also of note is that it was the people who voted for the increase. Not forced by local Govt.

If the people are willing to vote this way let the people suffer any consequence until enough decide to vote another way.

[hubcapsc]

Here's a cool story about the little town of Miley, and the Lightsey brothers who ran the
only business there: a sawmill.

I like to ride by there, it is "way out in the country"... there were a couple of folks there once
when I stopped, and they told me about when the sawmill closed... the government came in
and told the owners how much they had to pay their employees, and they shut it down.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2506&dat=19300119&id=Ms5JAAAAIBAJ&sjid=7AsNAAAAIBAJ&pg=1614,1336051

I had wondered what this building was, it was the kiln... those trees are growing from its roof...



Belts ran from this machine through the whole mill and ran all the different machines...



-Mike

[Patrick]

I haven't raised my price in quite  a few years, I guess I just did.

[Rams]

Did ANYONE read the information at the link I provided?????

Yeppers, not sure why you ask but yeah, I read it.

Some seem to be fixated on fast food workers which aren't he focus for the area in question.

Also of note is that it was the people who voted for the increase. Not forced by local Govt.

If the people are willing to vote this way let the people suffer any consequence until enough decide to vote another way.

Well, the comments might have been guided by this from the link you provided:

Related: Fast food workers, share your story

Those in favor of minimum wage raises such as those in SeaTac or New Jersey say that the new measures will generate economic growth.

"When you increase the purchasing power of the lowest paid workers in a state, you drive consumer spending and that can promote job growth and end up supporting small businesses," said Jack Temple, a policy analyst at the National Employment Law Project, an advocacy group that focuses on low-wage workers.

But those on the other side say that small businesses can't afford the higher wages, and people will end up having a harder time finding jobs.

Common Sense SeaTac, a group opposed to the SeaTac ballot measure, says that small businesses will suffer and young people just starting out will find it harder to get their foot in the door.

"These private-sector issues should be negotiated between employers and employees, not imposed by our small city," the group said in a statement.

[Bighead]

Just gives them a reason to not and try to better themselves.hey I was born here and I deserve to be handed everything and not have to try and work hard for my family I DESERVE AND IT IS MY RIGHT TO HAVE IT!!!!

I wonder how many of the people who think minimum wage is such a princely sum actually have to live on minimum wage? And, having worked at a couple of fast food joints many years ago I'd be hard pressed to ridicule the people who work there by saying a raise will only give them reason to not try and better themselves.

Actually, it's a little disappointing to me that trashing unemployed people as too lazy to go look for a job doesn't fully satisfy so now we need to belittle folks who do work, but for minimum wage, as so sorry and trashy that a raise would only make them lazier. Truth be told, it's a lot disappointing.

Tell you what SD I have worked for Minimum wage and Did survive on it.With no hand outs from anyone, But that motivated me to better myself. If you start people at a higher wage than the job is worth the have zero motivation to better themselves at all. All they will do is bitch about what they do make. Everyday Day I see 19-20 yr olds starting a job around $20 an hour that they have zero skills in and all they want is more, they are Not interested in how to properly do their job or even care if they do a half assed job. All their care is getting a paycheck whether they EARNED IT OR NOT! In the world I live in there used to be a little thing called Pride and Selfworth. I got my first job when I was 12 and have not been unemployed since. Even worked more that none job for a long while but you know what I appreciate what I have now.They will NOT.
Oh wait what the HELL do I care I don't eat at fast food joints :2funny:it's not like the prices of anything else in this country will be affected. Wake up and Get Real man.

[ricoman]

The new minimum in Sea Tac, Wash. seems to apply to transportation and hospitality workers.
I am positive this pay increase will cause them to really apply themselves and do the best job they can. <sarcasm font>

Here's info on the city, not your typical American town
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SeaTac,_Washington

[Jack]

An increase in Minimum wage cuts the rest of our real paychecks.  The Government likes it because there will be just a bit more income tax being paid.  Perhaps, some of these long-termed unemployed will see the opportunity and get a job flipping hamburgers, a job they previously thought was beneath them.

[.]

Just gives them a reason to not and try to better themselves.hey I was born here and I deserve to be handed everything and not have to try and work hard for my family I DESERVE AND IT IS MY RIGHT TO HAVE IT!!!!

I wonder how many of the people who think minimum wage is such a princely sum actually have to live on minimum wage? And, having worked at a couple of fast food joints many years ago I'd be hard pressed to ridicule the people who work there by saying a raise will only give them reason to not try and better themselves.

Actually, it's a little disappointing to me that trashing unemployed people as too lazy to go look for a job doesn't fully satisfy so now we need to belittle folks who do work, but for minimum wage, as so sorry and trashy that a raise would only make them lazier. Truth be told, it's a lot disappointing.

Tell you what SD I have worked for Minimum wage and Did survive on it.With no hand outs from anyone, But that motivated me to better myself. If you start people at a higher wage than the job is worth the have zero motivation to better themselves at all. All they will do is bitch about what they do make. Everyday Day I see 19-20 yr olds starting a job around $20 an hour that they have zero skills in and all they want is more, they are Not interested in how to properly do their job or even care if they do a half assed job. All their care is getting a paycheck whether they EARNED IT OR NOT! In the world I live in there used to be a little thing called Pride and Selfworth. I got my first job when I was 12 and have not been unemployed since. Even worked more that none job for a long while but you know what I appreciate what I have now.They will NOT.
Oh wait what the HELL do I care I don't eat at fast food joints :2funny:it's not like the prices of anything else in this country will be affected. Wake up and Get Real man.

Bighead, I too have worked for minimum wage and even in a time when the minimum had more buying power than today it was difficult to get by. Yes, it did motivate me to better myself. Unfortunately, the area I live in doesn't seem to have an abundance of places hiring 18 to 20 year olds at $20 an hour to bitch about their jobs and be ungrateful. I do, however, see a lot of middle aged folks working in fast food joints, convenience stores, and other low wage occupations and while most seem to try to show some enthusiasm for what they're doing I wouldn't say they are particularly happy to be there.

And yes, I see a lot of kids who don't have sense enough to pour pee from a boot who wouldn't know customer service if it gave them a handjob, but I also know that's not the whole picture.

If you want to ridicule working people because they work at jobs that are beneath you, go for it, I have no intention of breaking up your party. But you can't expect me to join in and you certainly can't expect me to applaud your efforts.

[skromfols]

  First, minimum wage is enough for someone to live on if they're single and have no children.  So unless you're one of the very few who had a much better job, but lost it and now work at flipping burgers, you shouldn't have a family until you can afford one.

Second, how many burger flippers have a high school diploma?  My guess is very few, and those who have a diploma and any ambition will find something better in a short time, or end up as the manager.

Third, some countries I've lived in have gone to automation even in fast food places to avoid paying for low skill workers.  You order from a machine, pay a machine and much of the food preparation is done by machines.  The higher the cost of labor the more automation will be used, which will result in fewer jobs.

Let supply and demand work.

[RP#62]

SD, what do you see as a solution?  As a small business owner, you cannot afford to pay people more than the work is worth or you won't stay in business long.  If you go out of business, then you employ no one.  Unlike the government, the private sector is reality-based.

-RP

[MP]

One quick example is ATM's.  Remote locations are one thing, but why are they at the entrance to your own bank?

Because it is CHEAPER than hiring more tellers!  Thus, a LOSS of jobs.  I have heard, but do not know for a fact, that in some larger cities they actually charge a small service fee to use a teller for a job the ATM at the door can do!  This was on a RV forum a while back.

The argument that it will increase the economy because of the extra money the workers makes totally baffles me.

When the business pays the employee another dollar in wages, yes, THAT employee has another dollar to spend.  BUT, in order to pay that one dollar, the store has to raise prices by that same dollar, in order to have the money to pay the employee.

Thus, the one dollar EXTRA in the economy from the worker, is ONE DOLLAR LESS that other people have to put into the economy.  Thus, WHERE IS THE GAIN?  At best, a net zero gain to the economy.  One could make the argument that there is actually a little less, because there will be taxes extracted out of the dollar in wages, that will go to gov't. in income taxes, workers comp, and unemployment taxes, as these are based on wages.

MP

[Robert]

15 an hour times 40 equals 600 a week take home by the time you add on all the associated taxes fica maybe health care ss and state and local taxes that worker costs a business 800 to 900 a week. This is for unskilled labor, I will tell you this, no way is that going to help us or even the worker. If I was a new business on a budget I would be hard pressed to afford that type of cost. If you are a big business and have many workers then doubling your payroll cost without adding workers is a good way for employers to fire who ever they need to. The other alternative is to not hire as many and let the customer suffer. Effectively turning this country into a third world country without all the customer service people that are needed. Either way its a total joke. I would think that it could be challenged by being biased and not including all workers. Why would only certain industries be allowed to raise the minimum.

[fantsybikr]

doesnt have anything to do with hourly wage, but soon very few will get enough hours of work at one job to even think of being able to live from it..ive heard talk of it many times and actually over heard phone conversation at the gas station manager was talking to someone wanting a job, she said after Jan 1, no one gets more than 24 hrs a week and they would be hiring a couple people to make sure they had enough people to make sure no one got over 24 hrs a week..the systematic destruction of the middle class and I'm not talking people making 250K..Washington politicians seem to think people making 45K are rich..and one can barely buy a nice car for that anymore...

[Jack]

15 an hour times 40 equals 600 a week take home by the time you add on all the associated taxes fica maybe health care ss and state and local taxes that worker costs a business 800 to 900 a week. This is for unskilled labor, I will tell you this, no way is that going to help us or even the worker. If I was a new business on a budget I would be hard pressed to afford that type of cost. If you are a big business and have many workers then doubling your payroll cost without adding workers is a good way for employers to fire who ever they need to. The other alternative is to not hire as many and let the customer suffer. Effectively turning this country into a third world country without all the customer service people that are needed. Either way its a total joke. I would think that it could be challenged by being biased and not including all workers. Why would only certain industries be allowed to raise the minimum. Maybe because most of the workers in those industries are the same color as the big O. I am not racist but not afraid to point out what I see that others are doing.

Of course the "Big O is half white, YOU KNOW. 

Most of the workers here in Arkansas are white, not that that matters.  Still, I consider it a vote buy as the poor are going to vote with their pocket books just like everyone else.

[Patrick]

15 an hour times 40 equals 600 a week take home by the time you add on all the associated taxes fica maybe health care ss and state and local taxes that worker costs a business 800 to 900 a week. This is for unskilled labor, I will tell you this, no way is that going to help us or even the worker. If I was a new business on a budget I would be hard pressed to afford that type of cost. If you are a big business and have many workers then doubling your payroll cost without adding workers is a good way for employers to fire who ever they need to. The other alternative is to not hire as many and let the customer suffer. Effectively turning this country into a third world country without all the customer service people that are needed. Either way its a total joke. I would think that it could be challenged by being biased and not including all workers. Why would only certain industries be allowed to raise the minimum. Maybe because most of the workers in those industries are the same color as the big O. I am not racist but not afraid to point out what I see that others are doing.

Of course the "Big O is half white, YOU KNOW.  

Most of the workers here in Arkansas are white, not that that matters.  Still, I consider it a vote buy as the poor are going to vote with their pocket books just like everyone else.

Since blacks make up 12-13% of the population, and, their unemployment rate is about double that of whites, it makes sense to me that the majority of workers about anywhere are white. Most blacks vote democratic for some strange reason yet their unemployment rate hasn't changed for the better.

[Robert]

15 an hour times 40 equals 600 a week take home by the time you add on all the associated taxes fica maybe health care ss and state and local taxes that worker costs a business 800 to 900 a week. This is for unskilled labor,

Of course the "Big O is half white, YOU KNOW. 

Most of the workers here in Arkansas are white, not that that matters.  Still, I consider it a vote buy as the poor are going to vote with their pocket books just like everyone else.

Jack just so you know the 15 dollars an hour is only in Washington State in the hospitality and transportation workers in and near Seattle-Tacoma International Airport no other state yet. While other states have raised the minimum wage this was the most dramatic.

[..]

15 an hour times 40 equals 600 a week take home by the time you add on all the associated taxes fica maybe health care ss and state and local taxes that worker costs a business 800 to 900 a week. This is for unskilled labor,

Of course the "Big O is half white, YOU KNOW. 

Most of the workers here in Arkansas are white, not that that matters.  Still, I consider it a vote buy as the poor are going to vote with their pocket books just like everyone else.

Jack just so you know the 15 dollars an hour is only in Washington no other state yet.

And only one area and voted in by the people.

[Hooter]

i'm sure a lot of college gradates are happy they went to college when someone that's a high school drop out is making as much as they are.

   "BINGO'! Or the parents that spent the money to get them that education.

[musclehead]

recently I read some stats that only 5% of the work force makes minimum wage, and of those about half are teenagers and college students.

throws half of the 'living wage for familes' arguement out the window.

now since only 5% of the work force is at the $7.25 threshold and the majority are service industry workers does that mean the era of the $10 big mac is nigh?  I don't know.  all I know is the well intentioned generally make a mess of things.

[..]

"On Friday, in response to a lawsuit backed by the airlines and the restaurant industry, the King County Superior Court ruled that the measure could only apply to the 1,600 people who work at hotels and car services outside the airport. That cuts out 4,700 people who work within the airport itself, which is technically a separate jurisdiction belonging to the Port of Seattle -- not subject to the voters' desires".


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/12/29/seatacs-minimum-wage-workers-might-not-get-their-raise-after-all/?hpid=z4

[.]

SD, what do you see as a solution?  As a small business owner, you cannot afford to pay people more than the work is worth or you won't stay in business long.  If you go out of business, then you employ no one.  Unlike the government, the private sector is reality-based.

-RP

You know, I'm not sure that under the current conditions a solution even exists, at least not an easy solution that will please everyone. But there never has been. The reality is that wherever two or more are gathered for any purpose every decision will come down to a compromise and if everybody isn't happy then somebody is going to bitch and when enough people get unhappy they will go looking for a scapegoat. And they will find one. And for everyone who isn't between struggling for financial survival and utterly destitute the poor make a real handy scapegoat because they can't really take a lot of time out from basic survival to defend their reputations.  

That they don't exist doesn't really matter though when you consider that no one cares about easy solutions that will make everyone happy anyway. All any of us really want are solutions that negatively affect somebody else. We can protest all we want to say that isn't the case but there are very few people on this forum (or anywhere else) who are willing to give any meaningful consideration to any proposal that falls outside the range of their own perceived self-interest.

You know, I'm not sure that under the current conditions a solution even exists, at least not an easy solution that will please everyone. But there never has been. The reality is that wherever two or more are gathered for any purpose every decision will come down to a compromise and if everybody isn't happy then somebody is going to bitch and when enough people get unhappy they will go looking for a scapegoat. And they will find one. And for everyone who isn't between struggling for financial survival and utterly destitute the poor make a real handy scapegoat because they can't really take a lot of time out from basic survival to defend their reputations. 

Nobody cares about easy solutions that will make everyone happy anyway. All any of us really want are solutions that negatively affect somebody else. We can protest all we want to say that isn't the case but there are very few people on this forum (or anywhere else) who are willing to give any meaningful consideration to any proposal that falls outside the range of their own perceived self-interest.

So, a solution? I don't know. I just don't see heaping ridicule and abuse upon everyone who is unemployed or working at a crappy job because that's the best they can do as anything more than an utter travesty. You know, I'm not sure that under the current conditions a solution even exists, at least not an easy solution that will please everyone. But there never has been. The reality is that wherever two or more are gathered for any purpose every decision will come down to a compromise and if everybody isn't happy then somebody is going to bitch and when enough people get unhappy they will go looking for a scapegoat. And they will find one. And for everyone who isn't between struggling for financial survival and utterly destitute the poor make a real handy scapegoat because they can't really take a lot of time out from basic survival to defend their reputations. 

Nobody cares about easy solutions that will make everyone happy anyway. All any of us really want are solutions that negatively affect somebody else. We can protest all we want to say that isn't the case but there are very few people on this forum (or anywhere else) who are willing to give any meaningful consideration to any proposal that falls outside the range of their own perceived self-interest.

So, a solution? I don't know. But ridiculing others as somehow undeserving from a moral or intellectual standpoint is nothing but mean spirited and small minded and does absolutely nothing positive. That is my opinion and I won't even pretend to be amused by that sort of thing.