guns

[Gavin_Sons]

We were in town today and decided to stop by rural king. As always I went straight to the gun section. I have been looking for a small 32 or 380 for awhile. Came across a smith & wesson m&p defender in 380. Has a built in laser not that I would ever need a laser but it is already there. Feels better in my hand than the kel tec and the ruger lcp. Might go ahead and buy this little gun. Right now my carry gun is a springfield xdm in 40 and it is way too big and pulls my pants down. Just want something smaller I can carry all the time no matter what attire im in. Any other suggestions on a small gun like this?

[Gavin_Sons]

Oops, not the defender, the bodyguard. My bad

[bassman]

Have u looked at the Kahr CM9?

[big d]

Wife has the m&p shield in .40 but not sure she is that crazy about it. She will continue to test it at the range but in case I am picking up a sig p232 in .380 on Tuesday. I am psyched cause I never thought I would find one that would fit my hands.

[Raider]

My wife also has an M&p shield in 9mm.  Size is great, capacity is good, but the triggers suck. 

We just got her a CZ 2075 RAMI also in 9mm.  I'm currently trying to steal it from her!

[Gavin_Sons]

Not crazy about Kahr but will check them out. I do like Sigs and will also check it out. Im kinda partial to the smith right now. Ill have to stop by my gun shop this week, maybe ill come across something I like better. I do like the springfield xds in 40 but still think it is heavier than I would care to carry all the time. Really looking for a pocket gun or something I can slide inside my belt. Thanks for the leads though.

[PAVALKER]

Shoulder holster..... then you don't have to worry about those pants.....   

What KelTec?   PF9 or P3AT?

[Gavin_Sons]

Shoulder holster..... then you don't have to worry about those pants.....   

What KelTec?   PF9 or P3AT?

P32 or P3AT

[rocketray]

I have 2 of the bodyguards      many write ups say they are the best       I can pull mine out of the front pant pocket even sitting down      the laser lights up very well indoors

[Gavin_Sons]

How do they shoot?  Pretty accurate at 25 feet?

[Sorcerer]

I have 2 kahrs, K9 for winter carry. CW9 for summer carry. Both interchange mag and ISWB holster.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

I just love this gun it drops right in the front pocket of my Levi's .
North American Firearms 22 Mag.

[Jetflyer]

Although some triggers are better than others, a conceal carry gun should NOT have a "sweet" trigger and a light pull. They are designed to be on the heavy side. These guns are likely to be thrown in a pocket book, glove compartment, or deep into a jacket pocket. The snag of a key ring or lipstick tube are two of the many reasons the triggers SHOULD be heavy on pull.

The Karh brand does have perhaps the smoothest trigger in this classification of gun. The 380 Auto is similar in size to a short 9mm, and considered the absolute minimum caliber for self defense(penetration and expansion).

IDPA Master
NC Conceal Carry Instructor
FLEO

[Jess from VA]

The newest North American minis now have swing out cylinders.

Sidewinder with LaserLyte Laser

[Disco]

If you like Glocks, consider one of these.  They are, essentially, mini-Glocks and they are small.



.380 http://www.diamondbackfirearms.com/product?id=23


9mm http://www.diamondbackfirearms.com/category?cat=7

[Jetflyer]

"Pretty accurate at 25ft?"

The accuracy of a such a short barreled platform is difficult to narrow down. The combination of a heavy trigger pull, a short sight radius and tiny fixed sights, does not give good results at 25 feet... all while dumping adrenaline in grave imminent danger!

[Jetflyer]

Find a range that has rental guns to test drive. The rangemaster will help you narrow down a few guns to try. Some guns just fit better others, and all it cost you was a box of ammo to find out.

[Jess from VA]

I started to type the same thing.

A true pocket gun may have some decent accuracy potential (like in a Ransom rest, or maybe even with very slow deliberate practice), but if you need it in an emergency setting, it is better to plan on 7 foot shots (to only hit the bad guy and no one else).

[musclehead]

Although some triggers are better than others, a conceal carry gun should NOT have a "sweet" trigger and a light pull. They are designed to be on the heavy side. These guns are likely to be thrown in a pocket book, glove compartment, or deep into a jacket pocket. The snag of a key ring or lipstick tube are two of the many reasons the triggers SHOULD be heavy on pull.

The Karh brand does have perhaps the smoothest trigger in this classification of gun. The 380 Auto is similar in size to a short 9mm, and considered the absolute minimum caliber for self defense(penetration and expansion).

IDPA Master
NC Conceal Carry Instructor
FLEO

makes sense on a carry gun. 

[Tx Bohemian]

Although some triggers are better than others, a conceal carry gun should NOT have a "sweet" trigger and a light pull. They are designed to be on the heavy side. These guns are likely to be thrown in a pocket book, glove compartment, or deep into a jacket pocket. The snag of a key ring or lipstick tube are two of the many reasons the triggers SHOULD be heavy on pull.


IDPA Master
NC Conceal Carry Instructor
FLEO

I totally agree with this.

I have the S&W Bodyguard and like it for a carry gun, which is what it was bought for (I have others for target practice, plinking, fun, etc...).


The first time I shot it I wasn't pleased with the loooong trigger pull but then realized, as Jetflyer states, there is a reason for that.
Seems like in a "excited situation" the trigger pull will be the last thing you'll be thinking about.

I bought the wife a Ruger LCP for Xmas for a CH and it also has a long trigger pull.

[Jetflyer]

Now for a good laugh...

Watch this older clip of a DEA agent conducting a gun safety demostration to grade school children. He only checks to see if the chamber is clear, but he does not remove the magazine first.  When he releases the slide forward to continue his demonstration, he inadvertently loaded the chamber again. Also,  pay attention to the fear in the room when he asks his assistant for the AR-15. Run class, run!!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=sZrvUubXIKrJygGX24GoCw&url=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DtZdeAVOiQmU&cd=1&ved=0CCcQtwIwAA&usg=AFQjCNEGg66OnkSOtndzv1P1VGN4QBytgw

[Shelly]

Check out the bersa line of .380 handguns. I have 4 of bersa's pistols and have not had a single problem with them. looks and feels just like a walther ppk. and the price is much less than a smith. just my 2 cents.

[Gavin_Sons]

what an idiot, why would you even have live rounds in a demostration with kids?  Hope he lost his job. Now, back to the original topic. I have read reviews on the S&W bodyguard and everyone seems to like them. Not much on a laser because in the heat of the moment who is going to take time to turn it on? I'm more of an instinctive shooter anyway. Shoot your guns enough it will be like an extention of your hand. Still undecided until i can get out and hold more and maybe shoot a few. My gun guy usually has a few used pocket guns that he will let you take out back and shoot. I may stop by there tonight on my way home.

[flcjr]

I am fond of the ruger LCR in 357. You can get it in 38 and 22mag also.

[Dave Ritsema]

I have shot the .380 Bodyguard at my range a few times and yes it has a long trigger pull and is not an overly pleasant gun to shoot. That being said I think it is a perfectly acceptable self defense weapon for someone that wants a smaller caliber and physically smaller weapon for concealed carry. They make some good defense ammo these days that will suit you well.

All of the comments about rough triggers, short sight radius and small sights are correct, the integrated laser is a good solution to several of those issues.  If you feel you need a smaller weapon to carry it is better solution than just sometimes carrying your .40. Someone else coined the phrase "It's better to have a .380 in your pocket than a .45 in your glove box." I couldn't agree more.

For me, the Springfield XDS with the integrated laser is a perfect solution. I am sure the Bodyguard is a reliable weapon, Smith and Wesson makes fine firearms. Some are just better than others.

[andym]

Have you considered a revolver with the Ruger .357 or a Judge which can also fire a .410 shotgun shell in addition to its normal round

[Jess from VA]

A loaded Judge will pull your pants to your knees, even with a belt.  

Also, at 20 feet, you think all the pellets will just hit the perp?  (yes there are special slug loads) 410 shells are the intended ammo... it also shoots 45LC.

I would not recommend a Judge for carry (except maybe grandma with a wheelchair carry rig).... maybe the house.  But an 870 is so much better.

JMHO (no offense intended Andy)

[Gavin_Sons]

Glock just released the model 42 which is 380 and not much bigger than the bodyguard. By what i have seen they are great shooters and plesent to shoot.

[Jetflyer]

Glock dominates the world in Stock Service Pistol and Enhanced Service Pistol divisions of IDPA and USPSA. Sure, there are other great brands right on their heels, but the Glock dominance still reigns. I speak with first hand knowlege, as I have chased these guys around the world.

If you can get your hands on the Glock 42, bring it home. Every other manufacturer will be scrambling to duplicate the features of this gun, they always do. Its called Glock Perfection.

[Gavin_Sons]

I have my gun guy working on it now, he had one last week and i was only on the shelf for an hour.

[9Ball]

A loaded Judge will pull your pants to your knees, even with a belt.  

That'll make them die of laughter...

[fudgie]

I have the Taurus TCP in .380. Spitting image of the Rugar TCP. The TCP fit my hand better then Rugar, so I went with it. Been happy with it. It also comes in many colors. I put it in my boot and fits in my pocket. Also fits in my vest pocket.
I dont ahve a round chambered in it because of the potential of it going off due to the enviorment I use it in.

[Gavin_Sons]

Im really liking the glock. I use to have a 23 and should have never got rid of it. Still waiting to see how fast my gun guy can get one. Hope he can get it quick.

[BnB Tom]

ACTUALLY,  the S & W model 49 in .38 caliber is called the 'Defender'.
 
   The main reason I try not to pi$$ off the wife is because she is pretty good with her nickel version. 

AND she keeps it in her night stand. 

[Regis]

Im really liking the glock. I use to have a 23 and should have never got rid of it. Still waiting to see how fast my gun guy can get one. Hope he can get it quick.

Ramona has a glock 26 in 9mm and a Ruger .357 hammerless. stop by and check them out . the G26 is small framed .

[Gavin_Sons]

   my 23 was small framed too. Hope my gun guy can come through

[Wetrudgeon]

Must respectfully disagree with disco regarding the Diamondback pistols.  We bought a 9mm version (DB9).  The thing hid well and was an OK shooter, but it proved Sir Isaac Newton's third law of thermodynamics:  "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."  We found that a 13oz pistol launching 9mm rounds recoiled very violently.  We found it objectionable and our mate flatly refused to shoot it.  Also, "limp wrist" failures were common because the little thing bucked so badly even with a very firm two hand hold and good concentration on it--something one is unlikely to have the luxury of in a crisis.  Don't know about the .380 version, but we don't recommend the DB9, especially for a woman.

We traded the DB9 for a Sig P238 and find it very good for its intended use, although pricey.  

We also believe you are headed in the right direction with the Glock G42.  We had a close look at one this weekend at a local gun show and believe it may be close to ideal for pocket carry.  We intend to acquire one for our own use.

We

[Regis]

I have a story for you Gavin , about a guy who got shot with a .380 at point blank range . Took 5 rounds to knock him down . That's why Ramona doesn't have 1 .

[Gavin_Sons]

I agree 380 is not an optimal round for self defense but some of the ballistics I have been looking at are really not that far off from 9mm. After all a 380 is just a shortened 9mm. I look at it as it is better to have something than nothing at all. Even a 22 would hurt someone enough to give you time to get away. With the glock 42 it wont jump out of your hand andreally seems to be a good shooter. I watched some videos on it and everyone seemed pretty surprised at how well it shot.

[Flat Out]

XDM....way too big for c & c.   XDS....just right!