Broken Exhaust Stud......Removal....HELP

[sawdustar]

Well, the Son-In-Law and I have work for several hours trying different things to get the broken exhaust stud out of the engine so I can put in a new stud. We've even tried welding a nut on the stud and no go. We tried welding a small socket on it....no go. We've tried tapping it with a hammer and center punch, vice-grip pliers.....no go.

It's on the back side of the center cylinder on the throttle side. Would that be cylinder #4??? No matter, it's the one closest to the engine body and not the one on the outside of the exhaust port on that cylinder.

I have about 1/8" of the stud left sticking out.....I'm at a total loss here....I need help. Anybody? Please?

[3W-lonerider]

do you have the exhaust off. if not you need to.
the part that screws up into the head is bigger in diameter than the part that sticks down threw the exhaust manifold. if the exhaust isn't totally off it won't come down threw the hole in the manifold
iv'e broken several and never had a problem getting them out.

[Louis Durocher]

Hi, did you try soldering a socket on the stud and before trying to removeit just warm up the engine to his operating temperature. It should help.
Sorry but i am french canadian,so my english is so so!!!

[nogrey]

OK, you've got a tough one here, and you've done some pretty amazing things trying to get this thing iut. All i can offer is something to think about: metal expands when it gets hot. So, the key to this might be to keep the stud cool while the engine gets warm. One thought i have is this: if you could get a pair of vice grips on the stud (essentially a heat sync) and warm the area around it with a torch, you may be able to break the stud free.  Just a thought. Wish i could be there to see it.

[John Schmidt]

And, when you reinstall the pipes DO NOT use a torque wrench on those nuts. Install new gaskets and snug them down with a box end wrench. After a 100 miles or so, snug them again. Check them a couple more times if you think of it, but trying to torque them down to 7 ft lbs. has caused many snapped studs and numerous headaches.

[F6BANGER]

How about grinding a slot in the broken bolt and spray with wd40 and let it sit for a few.
Then use a screwdriver to get it out?

[sawdustar]

Yes, exhaust pipes are off the bike. I will try the dremel slot tomorrow and see if I can break it loose.  I have some new studs and a couple of those expensive cap nuts as well as new exhaust crush gaskets.

[rekit]

EZ out? Awful small tho...

[9Ball]

have you sprayed liquid wrench or other similar around the stud?

Soak it good and then tap the stud with a small hammer to help the penetrant work into the threads.

Sometimes you have to wiggle the broken bolt/stud to break it free, in other words both tighter and looser.

Be patient and keep doing what you're doing and it will eventually give up the ghost....

[Patrick]

Heat, and lots of it along with vise grips.

[pancho]

What nogray and Patrick have said,,, get the motor hot, keep the stud cool with a heat sink or otherwise and smack it while under those conditions......

If you grind the slot, I would still heat the engine, cool the stud, smack it before trying to loosen.

[twdurdentwd]

Option 1: Tap the tip of the stud with a hammer then heat it up with a pencil touch and/or butane torch... This should work because most likely, studs are loctited in from the factory.

Option two: center punch the stud to create a pilot and use a small drill bit to drill core out... You should then be able to use some type of easy out from a hardware store to remove remains.

[crow]

I know you said you tried welding a nut on the stud.  Dont know what  process you used, but it should be stick welded with a low hydrogen electrode (E-7018) or a 309 stainless one.  Cooled untill you can touch it before trying to remove it.  Even better to let it soak with some penatrant for a while.   Then, SLOWLY going loose, tight ,loose ,tight, tapping with a hammer as you go.  Use a nut larger than the stud size. close to 90 amps on the heat for a 3/32" rod. Have removed nuts from 1/4-20 to well over inch and a half in diameter.  wont say allways, but 99% sucessfull.   take your time, good luck

[sawdustar]

Well...after 3 of us working on it for a total of just over 8 hours, I decided to call  it quits. Never got it to budge...zero....nada. My Son-in-law has removed many broken studs/bolts via welding a nut or socket on the broken piece. No such luck. I took those loud glasspack pipes off, put in new exhaust crush washers and put the stock pipes on it. I like the quiet much better since nobody wanted to ride with me due to the loud noise of the glasspack pipes.

Broken Speed-O is now fixed as well. New intake O-Rings are done. Next on my list is to replace the air filter and put new fork seals in the front fork tubes.

I will ride a while longer with the broken exhaust stud. From what I've been told, the stud was broken when they replaced the stock pipes with the modified glasspack pipes back in 2002. So the stud has been broken and bike ridden for well over 10 year that way.

Frustrated....I am...as well as the SIL and a buddy of his. All 3 of us wanted to get that stud out and replaced.......needless to say, we lost that battle.

This leaves me with a question.....if you can't get a broken stud out.....how in the world does one really get a broken stud out? 

[da prez]

In some cases I have made a fixture that bolts on another stud or preferably two and is a guide to get the hole centered so it can be drilled out. If damage occurs , then a heli-coil or keen-sert can be used.
  I know you tried and feel defeated , but it can be done.

                          da prez

[art]

I know it's something most everybody doesn't want to do but I've done it and it's easy. Pull the head off. I would ride like it is and in the future if you feel up to it have a machinist repair it in a milling machine. It's a very easy job once the head is off.  Another way is to tip the valk upside down and drill it out. Just kidding with you,HAHA . Good luck

[97BLKVALK]

I know it's something most everybody doesn't want to do but I've done it and it's easy. Pull the head off. I would ride like it is and in the future if you feel up to it have a machinist repair it in a milling machine. It's a very easy job once the head is off.  Another way is to tip the valk upside down and drill it out. Just kidding with you,HAHA . Good luck

LMAO

Michael

[Gryphon Rider]

I have just picked up some of this stuff, but haven't needed it yet. The propellant becomes very cold to thermally shock and break the connection between the parts needing separating. In Canada it can be had through NAPA Auto Parts.

[R J]

Sears has a set of tools that extract broken studs, head bolts and etc with eze.

One end of it has a drill bit, drill the stud a little ways in, like 1/2 to 3/4".  turn the tool over, put your drill on reverse and set the extractor and go easy.   Once it has broke loose, then you can wind up the RPM's.   Once I drill the hole, I usually take a punch and tap rather hard on the broken stud to help or possibly break it loose.     

I have never had to give up and take it to a Machine shop.   I've always been able to get it out.    I can be a stubborn as the damn broken stud is.

My kids got them for me several years ago and Sears will replace any one that gets broken or screwed up.    In all these years I've only had to have 1 replaced.

[Allan Y]

I have never done it myself but have heard of others welding a nut on the stud and then wrenching it out.  It depends on if you have enough stud exposed to weld to.
Good luck 

[PAVALKER]

Sears has a set of tools that extract broken studs, head bolts and etc with eze.

One end of it has a drill bit, drill the stud a little ways in, like 1/2 to 3/4".  turn the tool over, put your drill on reverse and set the extractor and go easy.   Once it has broke loose, then you can wind up the RPM's.   Once I drill the hole, I usually take a punch and tap rather hard on the broken stud to help or possibly break it loose.     

I have never had to give up and take it to a Machine shop.   I've always been able to get it out.    I can be a stubborn as the damn broken stud is.

My kids got them for me several years ago and Sears will replace any one that gets broken or screwed up.    In all these years I've only had to have 1 replaced.

I've seen those tools a few times....but I don't think to pick em up when you don't need em.  I don't think a drill would back out a broken frozen stud if a pair of vice grips, a nut welded on the end or even heat would.  An impact gun might help if there was a nut welded on it.  I think... Just a guess, that all of the aforementioned attempts tried at once just might do it......

Soak it with liquid wrench, hit with a hammer/punch to shock it, heat the block, freeze the stud and get your gloves on the vice grips with a hammer ready to tap the grips as well.  Rocking back and forth ...clockwise/counter clockwise  with an impact gun...maybe, just maybe.

Good luck....

[6Banger]

If you have to take it to a machine shop,  have them EDM (electrical discharge machining) it out. I do this on a daily basis, no problem.

[sawdustar]

I know it's something most everybody doesn't want to do but I've done it and it's easy. Pull the head off. I would ride like it is and in the future if you feel up to it have a machinist repair it in a milling machine. It's a very easy job once the head is off.  Another way is to tip the valk upside down and drill it out. Just kidding with you,HAHA . Good luck

     
There's a comedian in every crowd.!!! Turn the valk upside down??!!!! LOL..!!!!!

[twdurdentwd]

You could, however, use your handy dandy bike jack to lift it about 12 inches or so and lie on your back with a power drill and some GOGGLES  and drill it out with a small bit being careful not to touch threads.

[Patrick]

Well, if it just refuses to come out then you need to drop back for a bit. When that happens I just cut/grind the stud/bolt flush. Then take your time and center punch the stud exactly perfectly in the center. Thats the hard and main part. Just drill it out starting small and work your way up until the drill just starts to touch the old threads. Then chase the threads and use the original size stud. Every once in awhile that won't work and you have to go a bit oversize.

[quexpress]

This is what I had to do a few years ago on an old V4 Suzuki.



If can handle it, anybody can ... well almost. 

If you wish, glance at the following steps that I followed to build the jig, etc.

http://www.quexpress.02hosting.com/quexpress/stud_repair.htm

Good luck!

Normand

[art]

No wise cracks this time but if you do try and drill it out get a left hand drill bit. If it does work the left hand bit will also back the stud out. I do think Honda did use Loctite on them so heat will soften it up allowing removal.

[wiggydotcom]

This is what I had to do a few years ago on an old V4 Suzuki.



If can handle it, anybody can ... well almost. 

If you wish, glance at the following steps that I followed to build the jig, etc.

http://www.quexpress.02hosting.com/quexpress/stud_repair.htm

Good luck!

Normand

That's pretty impressive, Normand and should work as a last resort. Just wondering if you have machining experience or if you had access to a tool room to build your jig. Your writeup should be in ShopTalk if it isn't already there.  Not sure if I saw the size of the exhaust port ID...that the raised portion goes into.

[salty1]

This is what I had to do a few years ago on an old V4 Suzuki.



If can handle it, anybody can ... well almost. 

If you wish, glance at the following steps that I followed to build the jig, etc.

http://www.quexpress.02hosting.com/quexpress/stud_repair.htm

Good luck!

Normand

Very impressive Normand! Sawduster not that you wanted to be doing this broken stud removal gig, but you certainly inspired a great thread.

[sawdustar]

Very impressive Normand! Sawduster not that you wanted to be doing this broken stud removal gig, but you certainly inspired a great thread.

Hey Salty1,
It's about time I got lucky on something.!!!! 
I've been really struggling to get things all fixed up on the Valk. I stopped, cleaned it all up, and put the stock pipes back on and rode it to work yesterday. If the broken stud has been broken for 10 years before I got it, then I can keep riding it like this until I get time to break it all down and remove the stud.

Now if all this rain would stop so I could do some riding.

[Bone]

These machines have been assembled many years. Your not the only one I was removing the alternator on my 98 Tourer to change brushes. The 1st bolt to the engine broke loose with little effort. The second one broke with little effort   The third one broke loose with little effort. I posted the tragedy and several members let me know that one bolt breaks often it happens.

[Wewaman]

   Sawduster, this is not a Harley site     We Actually ride in the Rain 

Sorry could't resist

Wewa

[sawdustar]

  Sawduster, this is not a Harley site     We Actually ride in the Rain 

Sorry could't resist

Wewa

ROFL...!!!!! Silly you....I DID ride in the rain today. Rain and hail to mention it in passing.     

I ride in the rain, I ride when it's crazy hot outside, I ride all winter when the roads permit. I've been riding since I was 6 years old......so I ride year around when possible. I just don't like getting to work soaking wet. I used to have rain gear until one of my son's burned holes in my gear when he wore my gear to college one day when he was riding his bike to school. Now, none of us have any rain gear.

I live in an area that is flooded with Harley's and the primary motorcycle dealership in this area is Harley. I've had social pressure to buy a Harley...but I don't have $25K to buy a bike that most only allow to ride in the back of their pickup trucks to keep the mileage down on the bike. So....needless to say, I ride my Honda's with pride and solitude knowing that my stuff is paid for and I can and do ride it anytime and in any weather.     

[quexpress]

That's pretty impressive, Normand and should work as a last resort. Just wondering if you have machining experience or if you had access to a tool room to build your jig. Your writeup should be in ShopTalk if it isn't already there.  Not sure if I saw the size of the exhaust port ID...that the raised portion goes into.

I often wish that I had machining experience. I simply asked a good machinist to prepare it for me. All I did is hand him the specs.
This approach which I used on a V4 Suzuki engine could be applied to the Valk engine but a different jig would be required ... and a strong person to lift the bike/engine while you are using the hand drill. 
Since then I have purchased left hand drill bits which I would use after drilling the first small hole. Many times, it will pull out the stuck bolt/stud.
Thanks for the kind words! 

[quexpress]

Very impressive Normand! Sawduster not that you wanted to be doing this broken stud removal gig, but you certainly inspired a great thread.

Thanks for the kind words Salty!
Note: Many ingenious guys on this board have inspired me in the past ... and continue to do so on a regular basis. 

[Wewaman]

I'm right there with ya Sawduster     got a lady at work who started with a Hondamatic and moved on to a Suzuki and always told my buddy ( a real Harley biker) that she would never buy a Harley because she wants to ride not have her bike worked on every weekend.  Well she bought a new soft tail in 2007 and had it a couple years then traded that for a used Vrod that she didn't ride very much because it wasn't comfy.  Now she has a 2013 road king I think, bagger w/fairig, no trunk and she won't ride to work because of the fact that she would have to let it sit in the sun all day.  Plus it might rain and her bike never goes in the rain.  She has all the leathers  and of course she and her hubby are real bikers because they have all the decals and stickers on their car, truck , trailer, and of course the motorhome that they use to pull the trailer that carries the hogs to all the rallies...
So now you know what a real Harley biker is....

I ride whenever I can and wherever I can in all kinds of weather,  well, hot , wet, and sometimes kinda cold in Florida. 
Ride on and enjoy , that's what I'm gonna do anyways,

Wewa

[art]

I'm right there with ya Sawduster     got a lady at work who started with a Hondamatic and moved on to a Suzuki and always told my buddy ( a real Harley biker) that she would never buy a Harley because she wants to ride not have her bike worked on every weekend.  Well she bought a new soft tail in 2007 and had it a couple years then traded that for a used Vrod that she didn't ride very much because it wasn't comfy.  Now she has a 2013 road king I think, bagger w/fairig, no trunk and she won't ride to work because of the fact that she would have to let it sit in the sun all day.  Plus it might rain and her bike never goes in the rain.  She has all the leathers  and of course she and her hubby are real bikers because they have all the decals and stickers on their car, truck , trailer, and of course the motorhome that they use to pull the trailer that carries the hogs to all the rallies...
So now you know what a real Harley biker is....

I ride whenever I can and wherever I can in all kinds of weather,  well, hot , wet, and sometimes kinda cold in Florida. 
Ride on and enjoy , that's what I'm gonna do anyways,

Wewa

Never heard anyone say they didn't want their bike to sit in the sun all day, that's stupid.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I'm right there with ya Sawduster     got a lady at work who started with a Hondamatic and moved on to a Suzuki and always told my buddy ( a real Harley biker) that she would never buy a Harley because she wants to ride not have her bike worked on every weekend.  Well she bought a new soft tail in 2007 and had it a couple years then traded that for a used Vrod that she didn't ride very much because it wasn't comfy.  Now she has a 2013 road king I think, bagger w/fairig, no trunk and she won't ride to work because of the fact that she would have to let it sit in the sun all day.  Plus it might rain and her bike never goes in the rain.  She has all the leathers  and of course she and her hubby are real bikers because they have all the decals and stickers on their car, truck , trailer, and of course the motorhome that they use to pull the trailer that carries the hogs to all the rallies...
So now you know what a real Harley biker is....

I ride whenever I can and wherever I can in all kinds of weather,  well, hot , wet, and sometimes kinda cold in Florida. 
Ride on and enjoy , that's what I'm gonna do anyways,

Wewa

Never heard anyone say they didn't want their bike to sit in the sun all day, that's stupid.

The sun can be pretty damaging here. I try to keep mine out of it as much as I can.

[PhredValk]

Some of us don't have a garage, or covered parking at work. My Valk sits out in the sun 7 months of the year and she still looks great. And if she didn't, I got her to ride, not to look at...
As for the stud, if you're using a stick to weld things on it, you can try to 'stick' the stick itself on the stud and try vice gripping it out after breaking the flux off the rod itself.
Fred.