Anyone have a opinion on the Cliven Bundy situation...

[The emperor has no clothes]

I don't have a problem with the use of public land state or federal. I as a public land user pay fees to maintain the  land I access for recreational use and the vast majority of those using them for profit do and should pay back to the public for its use. His beef (no pun intended) is who to pay. He says he will pay the state but not the fed. Seems like a mood point and both should find common ground and resolve it and should never have gotten this far.

I have seen first hand underhanded ranchers in this state who will post land their cattle are on that is public as private. NO HUNTING NO TRESPASSING!!!. For those in the dark would never know better and even if asked they will deny you acces with no authority because they are rich and own much around it believe you have know right to be there. This is not all and I am friends with very good ranchers that will give access to their private land and access across to get to public to anyone. This guy in Nevada rubs me the wrong way and I am not convinced he is one of the good guys.
Maybe I am wrong?? I wonder if he would object to 300 head of my cows on the same land??

It has been resolved in the courts 3 times. He has lost every time ! He is no different than welfare freeloaders that so many on here bitch about. But for some reason they believe this guy is a hero.

[..]

Now Harry Reid calls Bunden supporters "domestic terrorists".

Building a reason to use any force deemed necessary?

[RP#62]

Lot of issues here.  On the public vs private lands issue, I feel strongly both ways.  In Arizona much of the state is Federal, i.e. public lands.  For those that like to hike, its great.  It means you can be driving almost anywhere outside of a city and if you see something in the distance that looks interesting, you can pull the car over and hike on over to it.  Hard to do that back east.  The bigger issue to me is the Federal government electing to resolve grievances it has with its own citizens militarily.  I think people have had their belly full of that and it was just a matter of time before someone took a stand.

-RP

[Highbinder]

My understanding is this, in 1870 the Bundy family along with alot of other ranchers bought grazing and water rights from the state of Nevada to use public land and they would pay a fee to be there..

These rights were passed down to each generation, Bundy along with the other ranchers paid these fee's to the state.

In 1993 the Federal Gov. decided they wanted to protect a desert turtle from the cattle and declared that they were taking over the said land, stating they would make the rules and the management of the land....my understanding is the rules put a lot of ranchers out of business....the Bundy's  refused to pay the Feds, but would pay the state...they went to court 3 times and lost...we all know how honest our court systems are, after all they mandated that every man, woman and child must purchase insurance from a private company and said it didn't violate our constitutional rights... :cooldude:l  Their agreement was purchased from the state...so here we are...not counting the Harry Reid stuff and enough show of force on the family that certainly was uncalled for, there are a lot more people that owe more money to the gov. then the Bundy's and no one showed up on their doorstep...

For those that feel the Bundy's are in the wrong, does that mean we should shoot them if they don't comply...?

[flcjr]

I do believe the rancher is in the wrong. Should we shoot them?? He!! NO.
We are a nation of laws and yes this government as been selective the last few years on wich ones to inforce but that doesnt mean inforcing this one is wrong. I think the feds response is way out of line and could be handle lots better on both sides.
P.S. Harry is an idiot and should go for a long hike in that same desert and pet turtles would be a better use of his time. He might be qualified for that job , as he is obviously not for the one he has now.

[..]

Shouldn't "we the people " also be protesting the attempts at eminent domain purchases by a foreign company on US soil?

Before the law steppd in there was no news about the home / land owners being forced out.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2014/02/24/foreign-company-tries-to-seize-u-s-land-for-keystone-pipeline/#./?&_suid=139785226352109267178989908071

[MP]

Shouldn't "we the people " also be protesting the attempts at eminent domain purchases by a foreign company on US soil?

Before the law steppd in there was no news about the home / land owners being forced out.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2014/02/24/foreign-company-tries-to-seize-u-s-land-for-keystone-pipeline/#./?&_suid=139785226352109267178989908071

Pipelines have had eminent domain available for decades.  Without it, none would be built.  One lone land owner could stop it.  They do NOT "take" the land, it is just an easement.

I have a 36" natural gas pipeline installed across 1 mile of one of my fields. It was put in 4 years ago. It was a pleasure, and still is, dealing with the company.  There is no trace of the pipeline on the field.  Other than a sign at the edge where it goes in, and another where it leaves.  If they have to do any service on it, they pay any damages, and they are very good rates they pay. There is NO displacement of homes.  They go around buildings and areas of concern. It is buried in the ground, and I farm right over the top of it.  The roads go over it too.  If it was not for the signs they put at each section line, there would be NO TRACE of it.  Look at a map of the U.S., that has all the pipelines on it, it is COVERED!  Yet, as one travels, you almost never see a trace of one.

Do we want fuel?  If we do, it has to come from somewhere.  It has to be transported.  Truck, rail, pipeline are the only options I know of.  Truck is too expensive for any distance. Rail is better, but there are more accidents than pipe.  Pipeline is the cheapest and safest way to transport oil.

MP

[Odin1]

 There is a big difference between this man and a welfare freeloader. the government is not taking tax money and planting grass for the cows to eat, it grows wild, this man pays more in taxes  in 1 year than 100 welfare freeloaders pay in their lifetime, letting cows eat wild grass cost nothing, on the other hand, EBT cards, free housing, free electric, cell phones and car repairs cost taxpayers billions, not saying everyone on welfare is a freeloader, but millions on welfare never worked a day in their lives, and will not ever get a job. So to equate this man to a freeloader is udder (pun intended) liberal blindness to the facts.

[WylieGibbs]

Bundy is not a new phenomena, but has been a thief stealing from you and me. Living in Idaho, we have heard about Bundy and others in the Sage Brush Rebellion over the years. They are a bunch of public lands ranchers, who think the country owes them a living. Does and has anyone owed you a living? If a guy has been stealing for 20 years, is any less a thief than someone new to the profession?

This is not the guy to pick as a hero. He will end up disappointing you. No one has reported the story and the facts behind Bundy. The Fox news has lost any respect I had for them watching the coverage they did.

Bundy is of the belief that the US does not exist, cant produce currency or collect taxes. Sort of like Posse Comiatus (sp) of years ago.

I would like the Feds to get his ass and all of his cattle of our ground. He does not own a damn thing.

WG

[Master Blaster]

Bundy is not a new phenomena, but has been a thief stealing from you and me. Living in Idaho, we have heard about Bundy and others in the Sage Brush Rebellion over the years. They are a bunch of public lands ranchers, who think the country owes them a living. Does and has anyone owed you a living? If a guy has been stealing for 20 years, is any less a thief than someone new to the profession?

This is not the guy to pick as a hero. He will end up disappointing you. No one has reported the story and the facts behind Bundy. The Fox news has lost any respect I had for them watching the coverage they did.

Bundy is of the belief that the US does not exist, cant produce currency or collect taxes. Sort of like Posse Comiatus (sp) of years ago.

I would like the Feds to get his ass and all of his cattle of our ground. He does not own a damn thing.

WG

And I suppose Dirty Harry and the Big Obominator are the real heroic defenders of us misused taxpayers.  It is not about free range or grass, its about Reeds big buck deal with the Chinese to grab the land.  You don't try to conduct a quasi military assault on hard working individuals to include attack dogs, automatic weapons, and helicopters.  I think Dirty Harry is wanting to retire and to pick up a billion or so to do it in style, and he sees it slipping through his fingers.  Thus he labels a bunch of folks as domestic terrorists to try to justify what he did.   Obominator backs him because it is a solar deal, and that fits his ideology.  Plus he owes Reed for all the dirty scut work he has done for him.

[Jeff K]

Funny, if a cop shoots a gang banger the libs shout out that he didn't have to die.
If A guy owes the government for his cattle eating public grass... Now that is grounds for a full blown swat team!!

[Odin1]

 Wylie, if thats a response to my post, nowhere do I see any hero worship, didnt even use his name. The only people  would even consider heros are those young men that throw themselves on a grenade or whatever else they had to do to save their buddys lives, they go to battle not for ideology or polotics but to keep their buddys alive. The Federal govt spends no tax dollars to maintain that land, so if you feel the grass those cows are eating is stealing from you, I would suppose you see yourself as a victim in many other aspects also. From my understanding he pays Federal and State income tax, county tax, school tax, local tax, matches his employees SS tax (7.65%) and medicare (1.5%) on every dollar he pays  them and has paid grazing fees to Nevada until 1993, when the Federal govt wanted the money is where the problem started, and yes if was him I would want the money to stay in my state also, but to equate him to welfare freeloader is ludicrous.                                                                                               

[razor]

I believe the point is, that bundy entered into a contract with the state, at a time when the feds had no interest in managing these lands.  It is also my understanding bundy's family and others were approched by the state initially as a way for the state to get revenue and help the land.  Then the feds changed the rules.  

IMO that was wrong.  I you think its ok then maybe you think its ok for the feds to change the rules on say, social security(maybe change the age requirements ar even just take your money that you've paid into the system) or maybe its ok if they just take your IRA. Cause all of these things have been discussed.   I for one think the feds are totally wrong on this one! even more because of the excessive force that was attempted.

On a side note, it has been said that its not about the bundys at all.  That actually, there are valuable minerals that the chinese need and they need the witnesses off the land. Don't know just saying with this government its not out of the realm of possibilities.

[98valk]

WAKE UP, WAKE UP,WAKE UP,WAKE UP,
ITS THE UN TAKE OVER OF OUR COUNTRY AND THE WORLD.
The treaties designed to take over the management of large areas of American land and drastically reduce our property rights usually masquerade under the pretense of protecting the environment. The 1992 Earth Summit in Rio produced the Biodiversity Treaty, which planned to set aside buffer zones and corridors connecting habitat areas where human use by Americans would be severely restricted. It would subject U.S. property owners to international review and regulation.

President Bush refused to sign the Biodiversity Treaty. However, Al Gore persuaded Bill Clinton to sign it, and they tried to ram it through the Senate in 1994. The good news is that, due to the action of alert patriots, the Senate rejected it. The bad news is that the Clinton Administration is implementing it anyway in three ways, claiming that we must "fulfill existing international obligations." But we don't have any international obligations because the Senate never ratified.

First, the Clinton Administration has already put 47 large areas of land, called "Biosphere Reserves," under control of the UN and prohibited development in these areas. The area involved is larger than the state of Colorado.

Second, Clinton issued an Executive Order called the American Heritage Rivers Initiative under which he took over 10 rivers this year, putting hundreds of thousands of acres along the banks of the rivers under control of federal regulators with full authority. This Rivers project is a direct threat to our private property rights guaranteed in the 3rd, 4th, 5th and 7th Amendments.

Third, Clinton is also trying to implement the unratified Biodiversity Treaty through the President's Council on Sustainable Development. It is busy developing curriculum for the schools.

The World Heritage Treaty of 1972 granted special powers to the corrupt UN agency called UNESCO to designate selected American treasures as World Heritage sites and develop regulations and policies concerning their use. The United States doesn't even belong to UNESCO because Ronald Reagan pulled us out of it. Nevertheless, 20 World Heritage Sites have already been claimed and marked by UNESCO, including Yosemite National Park, Yellowstone National Park, the Grand Canyon, and even the Statue of Liberty and Independence Hall. I visited Independence Hall and saw the big bronze UNESCO plaque impudently asserting that this sacred site -- where the Declaration of Independence was signed and our Constitution was written -- belongs to "the common inheritance of all mankind."

http://www.eagleforum.org/topics/EO/cc_speech.html

[98valk]

WAKE UP TO THE TRUTH, THE USA HAS BEEN TAKEN OVER BY THE UN.

In a little known Senate vote during the first session of the 91st Congress in 1970, the Privileges and Immunities of the United Nations, Executive J, was passed without one dissenting vote. Executive J gives the UN full diplomatic immunity as a sovereign government within the US. Ever since Executive J was passed in 1970, the UN has been mounting an all out takeover of National Parks and private property as this legislation came to a spearhead through multiple conventions and programs. The 1972 Convention Concerning the Protection of the World Cultural and Natural Heritage ( Article 8 ) established the World Heritage and Biosphere Reserve Program (MAB) and legislated UNESCO as the governing body over all World Heritage sites. The World Conservation Union (IUCN) is the legislative and economic governing body of UNESCO and the World Heritage Program.
The 1992 Framework Convention on Climate Change had nothing to do with climate and everything to do with the US handing over control of World Heritage sites to the UN. Four years later in 1996, Clinton signed Executive Order 12986 which grants the IUCN full amnesty and sovereignty as a foreign nation. This, in effect, gave the UN full control of all 70 World Heritage and Biosphere sites, which comprise over 70 million acres or 110,000 square miles of land (about the size of Nevada). These sites are no longer on sovereign US soil. Over 68 percent of the land in US National Parks, (THAT'S WHY WE PAY TO USE OUR NATIONAL PARKS NOW AND THE MONEY GOES TO THE UN.), preserves and monuments have been designated as UN World Heritage Sites or Biosphere Reserves.

The World Heritage Program is a massive land grab, it transfers federal and private property to control under the IUCN. Under Executive Orders, the IUCN/UNESCO is granted full immunity from US law. This means that when you stand on a World Heritage Site in the US, you're technically not on US federal property, nor are you on private property; you are actually standing on UN Land. One of the greatest testaments to US national cultural heritage and sovereignty is Independence Hall, where the Declaration of Independence and Constitution were signed. IUCN control of this site represents a direct assault on US cultural heritage and national sovereignty.

The IUCN has over 1,000 members, of which over 70% are private organizations and/or corporations known as NGO's. The phrase 'non-governmental-organization' was first used in the United Nations Charter of 1945 under Chapter 10, Article 71. NGOs were given Committee Status with the UN under the Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) in 1946. The definition of NGO' is "any international organization that is not founded by an international treaty," which may be, but is not limited to, global corporations or non-profits such as the Nature Conservancy, Green Peace, Sierra Club ect... all of which were founded under the CFR.

The vital role of NGOs and other "major groups" in sustainable development was recognized in Chapter 27 of Agenda 21, effectively stating that the United Nations and non-governmental organizations should be pressured by their respective local governments to implement the protocols of Agenda 21 and also promote the agenda to its constituent members, or the public. In other words, corporations and non-profits need to promote the UN agenda to their members.

Global Good Cop Bad Cop

Agenda 21, "UN Conference on Environment and Development," (June '92, reaffirmed Sep. '02) basically says people are Cultural Resources and may lose control over their sovereign land under Article 9 of the 1970 UNESCO Convention. The 2003 "Convention for the Safeguarding of the Intangible Cultural Heritage" (implemented in 2006) says that UNSECO owns the present, future, borders, language, thoughts and it refers to human beings as "Treasure." It also says that future non-existent children are cultural heritage and may be taken over by foreign governments under Article 9 of the 1970 UNESCO Convention. Organizations such as the Archaeology Institute of America, the Society for American Archaeology, the American Cultural Resource Association and the Urban Land Institute, which should stop this global feudalism, are really supporting it by enacting their duties under Chapter 27 of Agenda 21.

http://timesofthesigns.wordpress.com/2008/05/28/united-nations-land-grab/

[specialdose]

Harry Reid is a washed up hypocritical old man ( I can use the term old man because I am a old man ) If he is so concerned about Bundy thinking he is above the law he needs to take a long look in his mirror. Anyone not familiar with this story take a look. I am not a violent person , but, any time I see that man speaking I would like to choke him until he turns blue. Oh Yea Hypocrite ! ! !

http://atomicinsights.com/cnn-agrees-harry-reid-violated-federal-law-killing-yucca-mountain/

PS Tank you need to read this since you like Harry are so concerned about the Gov enforcing laws that are a decade or two on the books!!

[John Schmidt]

Think about it....if Cliven Bundy had named his ranch Benghazi, the feds would never had shown up.

As for Harry Reid, he's a bumbling old fool and proves it every time he opens his mouth.

[98 T]

Think about it....if Clive Bundy had named his ranch Benghazi, the feds would never had shown up.

As for Harry Reid, he's a bumbling old fool and proves it every time he opens his mouth.

I can't help wondering what would happen if the feds under the current regime would put that amount of effort (Sending BLM swat teams with full helicopter, drones, sharp shooters, etc..) to protect our borders.

There would be marches on Washington and 24/7 coverage by all the networks about how we're ignoring the rights of illegal aliens.  Can you imagine the crap-storm that would ensue?  But here,when it's big government over reacting with way too much force against a single private citizen or small group of citizens, that's not as newsworthy.

I agree that Bundy, I'm sure, is not a saint here and is in the wrong for perhaps not paying what he is supposed to pay to the feds... but the FED may have changed some rules of the game too.

Ever since the POTUS and Eric Holder among many of our so-called leaders have arbitrarily chosen to enforce some laws, change other law unilaterally, and ignore other laws with absolutely no consequences,  why should other citizens feel compelled to obey the law?   

The attitude Holder and Obama have established that laws are completely arbitrary when you're one of the elite will permeate society.  Soon,  the little people will be more emboldened to ignore laws too.
Maybe that's why every major federal agency is stocking up on ammo, guns, armored vehicles, and some on coffins - they may be sensing the winds of change?

So many government agencies ramping up with overwhelming force to squelch the smallest protest or dissent -, must keep everyone in line with Washington thinking.... kind of reminds of the Brown Shirts of the 1930's... scary stuff.

[The emperor has no clothes]

So how are the Cliven Bundy supporters feeling about this guy now? Seems the truth has come out that his family didn't start grazing animals there until the 1950's, after BLM was formed. Seems he also feels black people would be better off still being slaves and picking cotton. Boy you guys picked a hell of a hero in this guy!

[..]

So how are the Cliven Bundy supporters feeling about this guy now? Seems the truth has come out that his family didn't start grazing animals there until the 1950's, after BLM was formed. Seems he also feels black people would be better off still being slaves and picking cotton. Boy you guys picked a hell of a hero in this guy!

When making statements like this please give your source.

Thanks.

[Patrick]

I agree that this probably isn't going to go well for the Bundy's.

Now its starting in Texas. The state AG is getting for a fight over the BLM now taking border lands.

[The emperor has no clothes]

So how are the Cliven Bundy supporters feeling about this guy now? Seems the truth has come out that his family didn't start grazing animals there until the 1950's, after BLM was formed. Seems he also feels black people would be better off still being slaves and picking cotton. Boy you guys picked a hell of a hero in this guy!

When making statements like this please give your source.

Thanks.

It was the Ralston Report (las vegas news program) about his family using the land first in the 50's. And if I remember correct the NY Times on the slavery talk.

[Serk]

Now its starting in Texas. The state AG is getting for a fight over the BLM now taking border lands.

Since the state AG here in The Republic is also the Republican candidate for governor, he is HOPING AND PRAYING the feds do something like this here, nothing would elevate him in the eyes of the electorate like having a nice grandstanding showdown with Big Brother over keeping Texas lands in Texan hands...

[hubcapsc]

So how are the Cliven Bundy supporters feeling about this guy now? Seems the truth has come out that his family didn't start grazing animals there until the 1950's, after BLM was formed. Seems he also feels black people would be better off still being slaves and picking cotton. Boy you guys picked a hell of a hero in this guy!

When making statements like this please give your source.

Thanks.

He said:

I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro," he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, "and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn't have nothing to do. They didn't have nothing for their kids to do. They didn't have nothing for their young girls to do.

"And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?" he asked. "They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I've often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn't get no more freedom. They got less freedom."


... which produces the headline:

Nevada Rancher Cliven Bundy Makes Ridiculously Racist Comments, Says Blacks Might Have Been 'Better Off' As Slaves

Since Bundy refers to all blacks monolithically as "the negro", I'd guess he probably doesn't
know a lot of black people, he just knows what he sees...

http://www.casinoguide.com/blogs/neighborhoods/naked-city/

-Mike

[Highbinder]

I believe the intention here is to run down his character and take away the public support from him...nothing new with that move, look what happen to Duck Dynasty.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I believe the intention here is to run down his character and take away the public support from him...nothing new with that move, look what happen to Duck Dynasty.

Well that is quite possible. The thing is he's the the one saying these things about his ancestors,blacks,etc. Nobody is putting words in his mouth or speaking for him. For me the lesson here is, "the enemy of my enemy" is not necessarily your friend.

[donaldcc]

  I have avoided this post as it seems likely just more antigovernment rants.

  but, I was curious now that he has further opened his racist mouth.  I see that some oppose his activities.  good for you.

  Great hero for you that support such trash.  disappointing.

[.]

There is a big difference between this man and a welfare freeloader. the government is not taking tax money and planting grass for the cows to eat, it grows wild, this man pays more in taxes  in 1 year than 100 welfare freeloaders pay in their lifetime, letting cows eat wild grass cost nothing, on the other hand, EBT cards, free housing, free electric, cell phones and car repairs cost taxpayers billions, not saying everyone on welfare is a freeloader, but millions on welfare never worked a day in their lives, and will not ever get a job. So to equate this man to a freeloader is udder (pun intended) liberal blindness to the facts.

I suppose we need to assume that you are quite familiar with this guy's tax returns and that you are also well acquainted with all of these "welfare cheats" you believe are just sitting out there sucking up your tax dollars.

And so it continues. The middle class blames the poor for all its problems because the wealthy has told the middle class it's the poor people's fault and it will all be fixed if we just keep all the money flowing upward.

If I sound frustrated it's because I am. I've been listening to this stupid blame game for years.

[Mobile Mayor]

I appears to me that he tried to temper his statement in the best way he knew how.  He said "negros" instead of the more common term witch is also an archaic, but still common term.  He then went on to describe his observations.  Now really!  Witch is worse?  People who are forced to live under a system where their wants are provided, but they are forced to work.  I suppose that would be considered slavery,  because the individual has no option other than to continue to serve their master.  Indentured servants were also the next thing to slaves, (not really) and could not sometimes escape their terms of indenture.  Were they by default slaves?  When indentured servants fled their masters to escape their situation, they were also hunted down and returned to indenturement.  The welfare and entitlement system currently in use is nothing better than slavery in my opinion.  It is time to get down to the nitty gritty and  look at how things really are.  The welfare system is corrupted,  not just by people of slavery  decent, but by people of every decent.    It is high time to bring back public works projects on a significant scale.

[specialdose]

  My reply never was about Bundy being my hero or spewing anti government remarks. Bundy has truly opened his mouth and inserted foot. There still was no justification for the Federal Gov. to respond to that situation in the manner of special forces. We need to use that to protect our borders. Bundys little tirade does not change that.
  It also does not change the fact that Harry Reid is a slanderous, hypocritical old fool. Anyone who read the attachment on my previous post see's he is just as guilty of placing himself above a law that the Senate , which he is the head of, passed.
  As a 19 yr old boy-man  I served, fought for and nearly died for this country which I love very much, but there is a lot of messed up crap going on here and the response to that situation is part of it.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I appears to me that he tried to temper his statement in the best way he knew how.  He said "negros" instead of the more common term witch is also an archaic, but still common term.  He then went on to describe his observations.  Now really!  Witch is worse?  People who are forced to live under a system where their wants are provided, but they are forced to work.  I suppose that would be considered slavery,  because the individual has no option other than to continue to serve their master.  Indentured servants were also the next thing to slaves, (not really) and could not sometimes escape their terms of indenture.  Were they by default slaves?  When indentured servants fled their masters to escape their situation, they were also hunted down and returned to indenturement.  The welfare and entitlement system currently in use is nothing better than slavery in my opinion.  It is time to get down to the nitty gritty and  look at how things really are.  The welfare system is corrupted,  not just by people of slavery  decent, but by people of every decent.    It is high time to bring back public works projects on a significant scale.

Really? He didn't use the "n" word so that makes it ok? And if you think welfare is on par with slavery you really must have no idea what slavery was about. This guy is mooching off of the govt.(which is you and me) and he has the nerve to bitch about people on welfare!

[Skinhead]

Well, we all know anybody who doesn't agree with POSOTUS is a racist and any body who questions the actions of a black person is a racist, but I think bundy using the word nergo to refer to blacks who by way of the entitlement sytem are enslaved to the US Gov. is no where near as disturbing as DingeyHarry refering to US citizens opposing government bullying as terrorists.  All you anti-racists need to really allow people to have an opinion that is differnt than yours with out labeling them racist and look at what our politicians are doing to our rights.  

[hubcapsc]

you really must have no idea what slavery was about.

I wonder if this guy had any idea?

The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically. The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things. How long their subjugation may be necessary is known & ordered by a wise Merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild & melting influence of Christianity, than the storms & tempests of fiery Controversy.

-Mike

[98 T]

  My reply never was about Bundy being my hero or spewing anti government remarks. Bundy has truly opened his mouth and inserted foot. There still was no justification for the Federal Gov. to respond to that situation in the manner of special forces. We need to use that to protect our borders. Bundys little tirade does not change that.
  It also does not change the fact that Harry Reid is a slanderous, hypocritical old fool. Anyone who read the attachment on my previous post see's he is just as guilty of placing himself above a law that the Senate , which he is the head of, passed.
  As a 19 yr old boy-man  I served, fought for and nearly died for this country which I love very much, but there is a lot of messed up crap going on here and the response to that situation is part of it.

I agree!  The fact is that Bundy is certainly no saint and I've said that from the start.  But his ignorance and racist feelings don't diminish the fact that the federal government massively overreacted and sent in tactical teams ready to destroy him and his family (ala WACO style) for not paying  some fees to the government.  Harry Reid and his son have a dubious involvement with that Chinese company that wants to build a solar plant there and Bundy may be in their way and needs to be elimintated.

I'll say it again, Bundy is an embarrassing moron in his racial views.  But does that allow the government to come in they way they did?   His rights were violated by an out-of-control  BLM...

It's a scary road  our country is traveling on when people condone that if someone's personal views are as offensive as Bundy's it's ok to strip what ever constitutional rights you want from a guy like this.

If he owes money - they could put a judgement on his land and when he dies or sells, they'd get paid -with interest.

This whole thing is about abusive federal power controlled by elitists to keep the little people in line by as much excessive force as they want to use.

[Willow]

I appears to me that he tried to temper his statement in the best way he knew how.  He said "negros" instead of the more common term witch is also an archaic, but still common term.  He then went on to describe his observations.  Now really!  Witch is worse?  People who are forced to live under a system where their wants are provided, but they are forced to work.  I suppose that would be considered slavery,  because the individual has no option other than to continue to serve their master.  Indentured servants were also the next thing to slaves, (not really) and could not sometimes escape their terms of indenture.  Were they by default slaves?  When indentured servants fled their masters to escape their situation, they were also hunted down and returned to indenturement.  The welfare and entitlement system currently in use is nothing better than slavery in my opinion.  It is time to get down to the nitty gritty and  look at how things really are.  The welfare system is corrupted,  not just by people of slavery  decent, but by people of every decent.    It is high time to bring back public works projects on a significant scale.

Really? He didn't use the "n" word so that makes it ok? And if you think welfare is on par with slavery you really must have no idea what slavery was about. This guy is mooching off of the govt.(which is you and me) and he has the nerve to bitch about people on welfare!

Really, Mhead?  And I assume you do have some experience with slavery in the South?  I wonder, were you a slave or a slaveholder?

The article to which you linked took a question that Bundy asked (A question; QUESTION!) and transformed it dishonestly into a statement of his beliefs.  You, as so many uncaring politically motivated tend to be, were more than willing to jump on the wagon of deceit and wave the flag over the lie.

I don't think Mr. Bundy is an immaculately clean hero, but I'll give you strong odds that I would much rather be Mr. Bundy than Mr. Reid.  Oh, and I for one don't find him to be an embarrassing moron.  I tend to agree with most of what he has to say.  I'll leave it for now for you or others to sort through and assume which ones.  It's what you're good at. 

   

[Serk]

So evidently, if someone is a douche in one aspect, any other bad things that are done to them are excusable and allowed... Got it...

[Master Blaster]

Its obvious that most of the enlightened liberal crowd has never ever experienced that section of any town or city of any size.  Of course if you ignore it, it must not be there, so there can be no truth to the fact.  It however is a golden opportunity to misdirect the audacity of what Dirty Harry and his goons did and turn it back on the victim.  

[The emperor has no clothes]

Willow, You are correct , I've never been a slave or owner. You are incorrect that I linked to an article , said anything about Reid, called Bundy a moron. Maybe you confused my posts with someone else's . What I did say is this guy is no patriot or hero. He is mooching off of taxpayers to the tune of a million dollars , but he wants to say that black people on welfare might be better off as slaves. Then he says he didn't say that and demanded an a retraction from the NYT's. When the video clearly shows him saying that in his own words. Anybody wanting to hitch their wagon to this guy go right ahead, just be aware of what you are hitching to. Have a good day sir

[R J]

Not even the gov. wants to own land in Iowa.  Sorry had to call it as it is. 

And the other half of it is, we don't want them in here messing around anyway.

Especially the nut cases currently in office.

I think we need to limit them to 2 terms max and then no payout for pension and etc.  Pension and Medical not allowed either.   Would save a lot of Taxpayers $$$$ in the long run.  Oh yeah, after 2 terms no allowed to reenter and get 2 more terms.   2 is it, ain't no more.     Our current Governor is on his 2nd tour of tours.    1st one was like 12 years, out a few years and now back in office.

NO, he is not that good.   Vilsack was worthless but he was better than this Kingfish.

I'll get off my box now.

[fudgie]

Since when is/was negro a bad word?  ???