Missing teeth - hydro lock

[sequoia]

 :'(Missing teeth. Here are the pictures of what I see when I look in the hole where the starter used to be. I'm gonna be looking for some good advice on what I should do on this one.  There is a broken piece off of the back cover that holds one of the transition gears and the gear is missing teeth. I'm not sure what happened but I'm worried that if I fix it that it will happen again. Any tips and ideas would be greatly appreciated.

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/sequoiabritton/embed/slideshow/Mobile Uploads"></iframe>

[sequoia]

http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/sequoiabritton/library/Mobile%20Uploads

[Bighead]

Bike had a hydro lock. There are many threads here about it and what it takes to fix it.

[Paxton]

Thought this post was about my uncle.

[sequoia]

i cant seem to find all the talks about hydro lock and what to do about it. is there any tutorial type threads on it?

[The emperor has no clothes]

i cant seem to find all the talks about hydro lock and what to do about it. is there any tutorial type threads on it?

click on the 1500 tech board, don't click a post, in the search box type in hydro lock and hit search. There should be hundreds of old posts about it.

[sequoia]

just had my whole morning coffee getting totally freaked out about how bad this looks for me. i guess i need to pull the plugs and put in in high gear and see if it is locked up? what will happen if it is? will i not be able to push the bike?

[Jeff K]

It is hydrolock damage. It will e a job to fix. You will either need a replacement case or a nice weld/JB weld job when you find the piece.
It's not a bad job I can knock one out in no time. Too far away from me though. You need to make, buy or borrow the two special sockets.

You are going to need to fix your fuel problem too, or it will happen again.

[John Schmidt]

Sequoia, you don't need to put the link in like you did for pictures to appear. In Photobucket, just go to the upper right corner of the pics and you see a little gear looking thing, put your cursor on that and in the box that appears, go down and click on IMG at the very bottom. In a couple seconds it will say "copied" and you can close the box. Go to the post on VRCC and place the cursor where you want the photo to show and right click, then paste. When you go to Preview you only see the photo like the following. There is no need to use the Image icon above like when using Photostash. As for trying to move the bike, I wouldn't try it in gear....if at all. You don't know where all the broken parts ended up and if any are lodged in other gears you may cause additional damage. You most definitely have Hydro-lock(HL) and will require engine removal. Removing the rear cover and various associated parts.

[BobB]

That's the worst damage that I have seen for a hydrolock.  Both gears and the case destroyed.  Make sure you get all the loose pieces out of there.  You have some work ahead of you. 

[sequoia]

Any ideas on why there is only one missing tooth off of the starter gear and like six missing off the transition gear?????  It just seems like there is no way all that can happen and not have internal damage, bent rods or something right????

[Gavin_Sons]

Anyone have a link to parts or part numbers for the gears? I have a 97 tourer my brother picked up yesterday ghat has been hydro locked and can't seem to find the parts. We will be pulling ghetto motor this week if I can get the new gears.

[eric in md]

Any ideas on why there is only one missing tooth off of the starter gear and like six missing off the transition gear?????  It just seems like there is no way all that can happen and not have internal damage, bent rods or something right????

sell it to me with blow engine?

[sequoia]

im not in the market to sell the bike, it was my fathers bike and my brother did all the custom work to it so i want to keep it in the family. how much is this bike worth thow??? now that it has this kind of work that needs to be done to it.

[Flrider]

Man, I feel for you, been there done that and it is not a good feeling.
I was in the same boat a while back.
If you are okay doing the mechanical work, just take your time and go for it.

I got help from a VRCC member, he really stepped up and helped me since I did not have the two deep sockets to get to the broken gears.

Do you have a Service Manual?

Start by taking the bike apart and you will find that things are not as bad as they seem right now.
Have a system in place for all the parts to be laid out as you take them off the bike.

Let us know if you have any questions along the way.


Missing teeth will most likely be at the bottom of the case, you can fish them out with a magnet once you have it all opened up.

[gordonv]

You where posting that you might consider bringing the bike to a shop. Do it yourself, and you know it's been done right.

There is many posts on removing the clutch, and the sockets required. There is even a post with a HL as bad as yours.

I'm sure someone posted that they did the rear case removal while the motor was in the bike. Able to fix the starter gears.

There is a very good chance that there is no further damage in the motor. I recall only one person saying there was engine damage after a HL.

I would not worry about the missing pieces lodged in any gears, I don't think there is any below these. Remove the spark plugs, and slowly with the bike in gear, roll it forward - BUT do it outside, as there is most likely fuel in the cylinders, and gas should squirt out. Then remove the fuel tank, so no more fuel can get into the cylinders.

Then proceed to fix the damage.

For ease of the job, I would remove the engine from the bike.

[sequoia]

What about the damage to the case where the idler gear fits in that is broken?  do you think the best thing for that is to buy a new case or should I take the case somewhere to have it welded or as in one of the earlier post do you think that JB Weld Would hold?

[sequoia]

Also I don't know how to do this but I would like to copy this entire thread and renamed it to hide her locked 1500 missing teeth. that way if someone is searching for a hydra lock thread they can see this and comment on it as well. if anyone knows how to do that and can explain it to me that would be awesome to.

[Bighead]

You can go to your first post and hit the modify button then change the title of the thread.

[Attic Rat]

If it gets too bad I have an engine with 7,500 miles on it out of a 1999

[twdurdentwd]

You WILL need to pull the engine and rear case...DO NOT attempt to repair the rear case, it's a recipe for disaster. Replace it. Find the diagram in parts fiche and you'll be looking for #16, #19, and LOOK VERY CAREFULLY/CLOSELY at #20 starter mount assembly and the bolts holding it to right-side engine case. Be sure there are not cracks in engine case from the *CLANK* that is hydrolock.

I think you should do it yourself if you know what a socket and ratchet are. Label everything, get yourself a perm maker and some ziplocks...take photos if you need to. You'll need to get some special sockets that are expensive, but less expensive if you customize reg sockets into deep wells. I'll post photos of my two special "Valkyrie" sockets when I get home with sizes.



We should make a thread posting photos of the rear case chips... maybe we can begin a collector's deal

[gordonv]

Socket sizes post. It includes the home made deep sockets too. Last post by me had a supplier.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,45527.0.html

Looking for the post of the rear case while in the bike.

[sequoia]

 :cooldude:you guys r awesome. I am actually at a point where if I can figure out where im going to do this that I feel like I have an actual chance of fixing this thing myself.  Out of all of you who have done this, can you tell me what I should be looking for as far as cost goes and should I be buying all these parts from a Honda dealer or is there after market parts for this kind of repair.  I have changed the petcock to a pingel so far.

[twdurdentwd]

You can purchase from an online Honda parts fiche for cheaper than from your local dealer I'm sure...probably looking at around $300 in costs

[Ricky-D]

It is very doubtful there are aftermarket parts available,

and the smart move would be to stay with OEM parts

exclusively, for this repair.

***

[Gavin_Sons]

I have 150 bucks in parts for my brothers. New gaskets for the case new gear and going with a pingle petcock

[Jeff K]

:cooldude:you guys r awesome. I am actually at a point where if I can figure out where im going to do this that I feel like I have an actual chance of fixing this thing myself.  Out of all of you who have done this, can you tell me what I should be looking for as far as cost goes and should I be buying all these parts from a Honda dealer or is there after market parts for this kind of repair.  I have changed the petcock to a pingel so far.

I always reuse all of the gaskets, never had one fail.
If it were me, I'd buy
a new gear
liquid gasket 1104
some JB weld
Borrow or make sockets
Reuse the non reusable staked nuts, I do it all the time

Go riding

Cost you about $40-$50

Oh and then fix the carbs

[sequoia]

Jeff k
  Can you go into some more detail on what you mean with the job weld?  Are you thinking that for the case?

[Jeff K]

JB Weld... metalized epoxy.
Glues metal back together. I have a supercharger manifold that has been JB quick metal ed back together years ago. The gear shaft doesn't spin, the gear spins on the shaft. I'd do it in a heart beat.

[sequoia]

I can only use the JB Weld on the case if the cast aluminum part that broke off is all in one piece at the bottom of the case though right?

[twdurdentwd]

That's the worst damage that I have seen for a hydrolock.  Both gears and the case destroyed.  Make sure you get all the loose pieces out of there.  You have some work ahead of you. 

It's the most common HL damage as well.


If ONLY they put more effective overflow tubes in carbs...... If only

[gordonv]

If ONLY they put more effective overflow tubes in carbs...... If only

Ha??

Am I thinking that some carbs have an exit port up high, like a drain in a sink, so if the level of fuel ever gets that high, it will flow out?

[twdurdentwd]

If ONLY they put more effective overflow tubes in carbs...... If only

Ha??

Am I thinking that some carbs have an exit port up high, like a drain in a sink, so if the level of fuel ever gets that high, it will flow out?

Yup if somehow they can do that without screwing with vacuums..

[TWiesen]

make sure you look over your starter driven gear ( the big gear your transition gear locks into ) just broke mine down and found one tooth on it mangled and cracked. the only part i hadnt ordered already.    figured it better to replace that gear also then take the chance of going through this process again.      anyone know of a good way to remove your starter drive gear from the bearing without damaging the bearing or the case its in?

[twdurdentwd]

From what I remember...remove the case it sits in, that comes out easily and I believe the starter drive gear can be removed from rear - be careful so as not to damage the cast aluminum engine case when re-installing

[Jeff K]

If ONLY they put more effective overflow tubes in carbs...... If only

Ha??

Am I thinking that some carbs have an exit port up high, like a drain in a sink, so if the level of fuel ever gets that high, it will flow out?

This isn't a matter of cab bowl overflow. It is caused by fuel leaking under the needle and seat.